UE22 Error Master Thread-Pioneer, are you listening? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 522 Old 07-15-2015, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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UE22 Error Master Thread-Pioneer, are you listening?

I’m starting this thread to document and track the UE22 error that is occurring on affected 2011/2012 Pioneer and Pioneer Elite Receivers.

It is hoped that by bringing it to the attention of Onkyo/Pioneer Electronics that they will be committed to quality and customer service by addressing this issue in a timely and fair manner for affected owners.

This thread is not meant to trash Onkyo/Pioneer or be sarcastic which may take away from finding a solution to the problem. Instead it is hoped that affected users and knowledgeable people can bring a better understanding to what is going on with this error code and possible causes and solutions. In other words please be civilized and respectful in your choice of words…(Please read AVS forum rules for more information)

Background Information about the problem:

Affected users have reported that when this problem occurs it does not happen suddenly but over a period of months before eventually the receiver completely fails and will not work. Reports of users getting the error code multiple times and then having to reset the receiver by applying the factory reset or unplugging the power and eventually months later the receiver produces no sound and simple knob and button commands does not respond. Also, the UE22 error usually happens at the worst time…just after your warranty has expired according to many owners comments on the internet. Just Google UE22 error and you will see all the comments and frustration of affected owners. I got tired of reading the posts of the many owners who spent good money on their Pioneer receivers only to walk away and move on from Pioneer because they got burned with this issue when they could not afford the out of pocket repair costs because the warranty had just expired.

For owners impacted with this issue while under Pioneer warranty, they have been fortunate and had their DIGITAL MAIN ASSY board (or main digital board) replaced free of charge and they received their receiver back with no more problems. However, the problem with this is that its the most expensive part of the internal boards ($400-$500 plus labor) and when you have to pay out of pocket it becomes hard to absorb that kind of a cost. It is hoped that Onkyo/Pioneer will find a fix for owners by isolating this issue to a specific defective chip and help affected owners by having that chip replaced instead of replacing the most expensive board from the internal electronics. This would be the most logical fix and cost effective approach to dealing with this problem for Onkyo/Pioneer.

Forum members posting criteria:

Please state your Pioneer receiver model/number, build date (MFD: month & year), receiver positioning/placement statement and a description of your experience with the UE22 error and the events that led up to your Pioneer receiver eventually failing. You may also have some insider or technical knowledge that can shed light on the UE22 error and that would be most welcome.

This thread will be updated as the information comes in and will be compiled to better understand the problem and find possible solutions.

Hopefully someone senior at Onkyo/Pioneer will see this thread and respond in an appropriate manner for their fan and customer base.

Thanks

Last edited by Edllguy; 09-08-2015 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Added Onkyo/Pioneer as per M Code & Goaline posts.
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post #2 of 522 Old 07-15-2015, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved.
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post #3 of 522 Old 07-16-2015, 09:49 AM
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I have(had?) an SC67 that I just loved so much I have been keeping an eye out for the next round of Elite receivers. Unfortunately, during the weekend it experienced the dreaded UE22 error. I updated the software the first time. That seemed to do the trick, but two days later it died again never to be awoken again. Of course, this happened 3 months outside the warranty period.

I get it that any receiver model can experience premature failure, but while looking for a fix I read post after post of people who had experienced the same issue. This is a manufacturing defect. Unless Pioneer act to correct this issue by agreeing to fix receivers outside of warranty, I will never buy another Pioneer again. Already looking at Denon and Marantz brands for my next receiver. Until this weekend that was not on the docket.
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post #4 of 522 Old 07-17-2015, 03:58 PM
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Pioneer screwed me too.

I bought an Pioneer Elite SC55 in February of 2012. The UE22 code sprang up for a few weeks around April of this year, but magically disappeared until yesterday. The code reappeared and hard resets have done nothing to fix it. I've tried to do a software upgrade, but to no avail. It is noteworthy to point out that I bought TWO Pioneer Elite receivers at the same time in 2012- one for my bedroom(SC50) and one for my living room(SC55). They BOTH gave me the UE22 error. I spent $1,600 on the 2 units. Pioneer, I hope you're listening. I'm posting this and then I'm posting this message to my Amazon review as well.
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post #5 of 522 Old 08-03-2015, 06:55 AM
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Went to alot of trouble to get signed up here and ADD to the absolute disgust that I have a $800 boat anchor brought to me by Pioneer. SC-63 sold by Amazons UNAUTHORIZED dealer in October 2013. Not even 2 years old and I have the UE22 error with no recourse but the expensive burden of paying for the repair myself. This borders on criminal. My sole goal is to post this story as many places as possible. "These" people count on the story being buried. I may not make any difference---but I at least tried.
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post #6 of 522 Old 08-05-2015, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javaguy141 View Post
Went to alot of trouble to get signed up here and ADD to the absolute disgust that I have a $800 boat anchor brought to me by Pioneer. SC-63 sold by Amazons UNAUTHORIZED dealer in October 2013. Not even 2 years old and I have the UE22 error with no recourse but the expensive burden of paying for the repair myself. This borders on criminal. My sole goal is to post this story as many places as possible. "These" people count on the story being buried. I may not make any difference---but I at least tried.
javaguy,

Welcome to AVS forum. Sorry to hear about your SC-63 situation with the UE22 Error. Your not alone as you can see with other negative reports of how many Pioneer receiver owners got robbed of the full use of their receiver. We share in your anger and frustration that Onkyo/Pioneer has not moved to deal with this pattern of receiver breakdowns that cannot be linked to owner behavior or occasional quality control issues.

The evidence is clear. We just need Onkyo/Pioneer to investigate and take action that is needed on the owners' behalf to maintain some type of credibility for a product that they made and sold on their watch.

Last edited by Edllguy; 08-08-2015 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Added Onkyo/Pioneer as per M Code & Goaline posts.
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post #7 of 522 Old 08-05-2015, 06:23 PM
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Don't want to be pessimistic...
But...
Last year the Pioneer home audio division was sold to Onkyo which now is part of Gibson. @ that time the majority of Pioneer's AVR engineering/development team were laid off...

IMHO..
The only possible solution would be to group together all of the Pioneer users with this error and go back to Onkyo for a possible fix...


Just my $0.02....
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post #8 of 522 Old 08-05-2015, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Don't want to be pessimistic...
But...
Last year the Pioneer home audio division was sold to Onkyo which now is part of Gibson. @ that time the majority of Pioneer's AVR engineering/development team were laid off...

IMHO..
The only possible solution would be to group together all of the Pioneer users with this error and go back to Onkyo for a possible fix...


Just my $0.02....
When Onkyo purchased Pioneer they inherited Pioneer's issues. Completely agreed, M Code.
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post #9 of 522 Old 08-07-2015, 06:24 AM
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My 1527K Receiver developed the "UE22" error about a month ago. Receiver was 26 months old at the time and out of warranty. Brought it in for repair and it requires a "main digital board" @ $500.00. Unfortunately the part is back ordered which only adds to my frustration and disappointment with this product. Sorry I refused the extended warranty plan now, at the time I thought the chances of failure were slim to none. I am on the verge of cancelling the repair and going with something else - too bad as I really liked the unit, in fact I also have a 1528K, wonder if it will die too.
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post #10 of 522 Old 08-08-2015, 09:14 PM
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Hi all,
I have a Pioneer Elite VSX 60 that now has a UE22 Flashing Error.
Previous to this the Audio went out with no Error.
I took it to my local Pioneer Authorized Service Center and after a week I was told that the "D" Board was bad
and it would cost $617.00 to repair! Ouch!
I contacted Pioneer and I was told that because the receiver was "Out of Warranty" It would be my responsibility to repair it.

I picked up my VSX 60 and I connected it back up and instead of using HDMI 1, 2 & 3 I used HDMI 4, 5 & 6.
The Audio actually crackled a bit and came back, it worked for a week before I had to go out of town.
When I returned a week later, I had to turn the VSX 60 on and off a number of times until the audio stayed on but I got a flashing "EU22" on the display.
I am afraid to turn it off and it has now been "ON" for a week straight with the Audio working fine and EU22 flashing away!
I guess I'll see how long the audio stays on.

Previous to this Elite VSX 60 I had a Pioneer die via HDMI PCB but it was the opposite I had Audio but no Video.
After contacting Pioneer (in 2012) I was offered 3 different Pioneer AV Receivers at a large discount.
I purchased my now sick Elite VSX 60 for $250.00.
I wrote to Pioneer asking for the same consideration that I received in 2012 but Pioneer turned me down stating it was a once in a lifetime consideration.
Maybe it's because Pioneer is now owned by Onkyo and their policies are different, I don't know.

I'm sure that I am on borrowed time with my Pioneer and it will eventually die completely.

Side note: When I picked up my Pioneer I asked the Tech what receiver manufacturer does he like as a replacement?
He replied that he used to like Yamaha but that their quality has really gone down, he also told me that he liked Pioneer but they have been purchased by Onkyo and he never liked Onkyo and thus expects Pioneer's quality to go down.
There have been so many people laid off at Pioneer that when he calls for tech support their is only one guy left when there used to be a lot of support technicians at Pioneer.
He got called away for a phone call and that was all that I could get out of him.
I wanted to ask about Denon and some other manufacturers.

So now I am unsure as to exactly what AV receiver manufacturer will be my Pioneer replacement!!

Good luck to us all!

Bud B


Here is the complete story:
Reply from Pioneer:

Your contact to our Customer Service Department has been forwarded to me
for response.

Your request has been carefully reviewed, and we do understand your point
of view. Within the terms of our Limited Warranty, Pioneer will pay for
repairs required due to a manufacturing defect during a period of two years
from the documented date of product purchase. It is our intention to be
fair to all of our customers while honoring the terms of this warranty.

The accommodation you describe that was provided by Pioneer in 2012 was a
special, one-time accommodation, and we regret that we cannot provide that
same special accommodation again in 2015. Accordingly, because your VSX-60
is no longer covered under our Limited Warranty, we must respectfully deny
your request for assistance with the cost of repairs that may be needed on
the unit.

While Pioneer is unfortunately unable to provide the requested
accommodation, we thank you for your business, and for the opportunity to
respond specifically to your concern.

Mark Passmore
Manager, Customer Service
Pioneer Electronics
(800) 421-1640 x2291

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Bud B
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 4:57 PM
To: PIONEER, Pioneer Admin
Subject: Re: Product Support|A00001|9547979100

Bryan,
Thank you for your response.
I understand that if I repaired the unit I would do so at my cost because
it is out of warranty.
The moral of my story and reason for writing to Pioneer was to find out if
anything could possibly be done to help me, especially after learning that
a receiver will cost what it's original MSRP was to repair in 3 years time!

My current Elite VSX 60 AV receiver was offered to me via Pioneer Customer
Support because the Pioneer receiver that I had at the time died.
The receiver that I first had was not an Elite but just like my current
Elite VSX 60 it too had a HDMI board fail!
It had no Video only Audio, just the opposite of this Elite VSX 60.

When I wrote to Pioneer unlike your response to me which was, "I do
apologize for this but since your unit is out of warranty it will need to
be repaired at your cost."
I received a much different response from a woman (I think her name was
Nora?"} She apologized for my loss and assured me that Pioneer equipment is
designed to the highest standards and expected to last much longer than my
receiver did.
Because it was out of warranty the best that she & Pioneer could do for me
(A dedicated Pioneer Customer with over $4,000.00 worth of your products)
was to offer me a replacement at a much reduced cost.
She gave me three receivers to consider each at a different cost, the Elite
VSX 60 was around $250.00 and because I already owned an Elite VSX 53
receiver, I decided to go for that.
She took my credit card information, processed the order and my current
Elite VSX 60 was shipped to me directly from Pioneer.
If needed I can find the paperwork.

Fast forward three years later and again I have a bad HDMI board in my
Pioneer receiver!
I was hoping for a much more satisfactory resolve to my current problem
than what I received from you!
Am I happy in the fact that I am replacing Pioneer receivers one after
another because of bad HDMI boards, absolutely not!
The Technician at Lakes Electronics said that many times it is because
boards are placed above power transformers and they bake like being over a
hot plate.
Whatever the reason, the fact that I have two receivers die prematurely
(which I consider 3 years to be!) due to HDMI boards raises some serious
concerns with me.
I have always been a strong supporter of everything Pioneer but if this is
the best that I can expect, over $600.00 in repairs for a $650.00 receiver
in 3 years!
That is totally unacceptable!

Please get back to me and let me know if there is anything further that can
be done to resolve this situation.

Sincerely,
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
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post #11 of 522 Old 08-09-2015, 01:21 PM
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Angry Ue22

My VSX-52 would periodically flash UE-22 for a couple months and then one day just crapped out. Purchased mine in 2012 so of course (like everyone else it seems) it is also out of warranty. Sold home audio/video while i was finishing up school several years ago and I used to sling the Elites left and right. Feel bad thinking that a majority of those are bricks well. Don't see how Pioneer/Onkyo can think this sorta thing will go unnoticed. With the amount of online "research" that is done these days you gotta think that folks are coming across this UE22 horror story and will be shifting the focus of their wallets elsewhere. I'd think twice about accepting a FREE unit with Pioneer badging, let alone shelling out $600 on up for one at this point.
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post #12 of 522 Old 08-09-2015, 05:53 PM
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vsx 1121

Same problem, did find a web site where people are getting a temporary fix by using a heat gun on the DTS chip for 20-30 seconds. I did this and it worked for a couple of months, then had to redo it but only gut a couple of weeks out of it. Just had to do it again.. but not expecting it to stay fixed for very long.
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post #13 of 522 Old 08-13-2015, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to thank all those who have submitted their UE22 Error incidents for this thread to date. It is hoped that other affected Pioneer owners would share their story here so this thread can gain more traction with Onkyo/Pioneer.

I believe that the chances are good that Onkyo/Pioneer will respond to the many failed Pioneer and Pioneer Elite units manufactured in 2011 and 2012 based on a decision made by Onkyo on August 19, 2014.


Please see below Onkyo's Customer Care Program for failed receiver units between 2009 and 2012:



Onkyo USA's Terms and Conditions
TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR REPAIR OF RECEIVERS EXPERIENCING A LOSS OF AUDIO/NETWORK CONNECTION CUSTOMER CARE PROGRAM

This loss of audio/network connection Customer Care Program is available only to residents of the US and Canada who purchased their ONKYO brand receivers from an Authorized Independent Onkyo Retailer or from shoponkyo.com
This loss of audio/network connection Customer Care Program is available only for a limited number of Onkyo Brand receivers manufactured between 2009 and 2012 that may experience loss of audio or loss of network connection.
This loss of audio/network connection Customer Care Program will repair receivers affected by this no audio/network connection issue. This Program expires on December 31, 2018 or the date that the eligible repair or replacement is made by Onkyo or its designated Special Program Repair Center. All other terms, conditions and limitations of the original limited warranty shall continue to apply for the duration of the original standard limited warranty.
The limitations on Onkyo’s repair obligation as provided in your original limited consumer warranty shall continue to apply during the original warranty term to any other claims for warranty service.
Repaired products under this Program will receive a 90-day extended warranty on the repair that is made. Onkyo reserves the right to replace any receiver entitled to the benefit of this customer care Program with a new or factory reconditioned receiver of the same model or one having comparable specifications.

Also, see the actual AVS thread below that details and tracts the Customer Care Program for the failed Onkyo receiver units.

Onkyo acknowledges failed units and extending warrranties until 2018

I see many similarities with the Onkyo and Pioneer failed receivers in that you clearly see that it was a manufacturing defect that could not be connected to owner use or handling in any way.

Last edited by Edllguy; 08-14-2015 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Corrections and Additions.
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post #14 of 522 Old 08-14-2015, 10:49 AM
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Unhappy

Hi guys,

I made a post on AVForums SC-LX85 owners thread about my UE22 issue on how I "fixed" the problem: https://www.avforums.com/threads/pio...1702219/page-4

Well, I'm back to square one. Just like johnnybwis, it has actually now been the THIRD time I've taken a heatgun to the DTS chips because after a few weeks the same problem comes back again. I currently have the unit sitting on my workbench with its top off, and i'm ready to have one more go with the heatgun + stick some heatsinks on top.

To find that there is a UE22 Master Thread upsets me a bit - I was always under the impression that Pioneers receivers were well engineered and built to last. Does anybody have the service manuals to hand, I'd like to take a gander through it and remove the digital board from the chassis.

What's confusing me is why are the DTS chips causing a UE22 error, an error that implies a firmware issue...? Surely the fault would be on the EEPROM chips or the like? Does anybody know what these two chips with white labels do? I have a feeling (with no evidence) that they store the unit's profile settings.

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post #15 of 522 Old 08-14-2015, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by randomrat View Post
Hi guys,

I made a post on AVForums SC-LX85 owners thread about my UE22 issue on how I "fixed" the problem: https://www.avforums.com/threads/pio...1702219/page-4

Well, I'm back to square one. Just like johnnybwis, it has actually now been the THIRD time I've taken a heatgun to the DTS chips because after a few weeks the same problem comes back again. I currently have the unit sitting on my workbench with its top off, and i'm ready to have one more go with the heatgun + stick some heatsinks on top.

To find that there is a UE22 Master Thread upsets me a bit - I was always under the impression that Pioneers receivers were well engineered and built to last. Does anybody have the service manuals to hand, I'd like to take a gander through it and remove the digital board from the chassis.

What's confusing me is why are the DTS chips causing a UE22 error, an error that implies a firmware issue...? Surely the fault would be on the EEPROM chips or the like? Does anybody know what these two chips with white labels do? I have a feeling (with no evidence) that they store the unit's profile settings.

^^^Which chip is the DTS chip?
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post #16 of 522 Old 08-14-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Edllguy View Post
^^^Which chip is the DTS chip?
These two here.





I've just cut an old heatsink to go on top of them. Haven't got round to reflowing the chips yet.




UPDATE:
I've done the reflow and attached the heatsinks on using some thermal adhesive - unit powers on without error. Only time will tell how long it takes for the error code to come back...


Last edited by randomrat; 08-14-2015 at 05:04 PM.
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post #17 of 522 Old 08-14-2015, 08:24 PM
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Those two chops with the stickers are the firmware chips. The sticker inevitably states the part number and revision preprogrammed on them.

The error is not in the firmware chips. The error means the main CPU cannot get the firmware revision. It does this not by reading the chips, but by talking to the processors in question and asking them. The two DTS chips are DSPs (the also have Dolby on them) and on power up, likely under control if the main processor, they boot up from the firmware chips.

The main processor boots the two DSPs, then waits a bit for them to initialize. It then begins talking to them over some interface, getting their version numbers and other details. Here, it means it failed to do so, which usually happens if the processor crashed. Given re flowing them got it working, most likely there was a bad solder joint, or maybe heat cracked a joint. That bad joint either caused errors on the memory interface reading the firmware and thus crashed the DSP so the main processor failed to communicate, or the interface itself was flaky. Re flowing the DSP thus improved the electrical connectivity.
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post #18 of 522 Old 08-14-2015, 08:38 PM
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The (2) DSPs are sourced from TI...
(1) DSP does the SD decoding, the other (1) DSP does the HD decoding...

Just my $0.02....
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post #19 of 522 Old 08-15-2015, 08:31 AM
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I am adding my VSX-60 Receiver to the list as well. I have been having mini sound breaks one point. then the sound completely gone. I turned it off. It came back the next day and it was fine for a couple of months. The other day sound interruptions started again and now is gone completely for good. UE22 is flashing on the screen. I owned Pioneer years ago . it was a great then. This would be my last purchase ....
sems
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post #20 of 522 Old 08-16-2015, 01:38 PM
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Just thought i'd report back on how things are going after the heatsink addition. Since my last post, the receiver has been playing the Inception blu-ray on endless repeat, and since 4 hours ago things were dandy.

Then I decided to point my 40W desk lamp, about 16" high, towards the decoding chips to see how it'd react - the reason why I did this was because I thought A) i'd push the unit to see how it'd cope and B) the cabinet that this unit normally sits in gets warm when both the receiver and the HTPC are running. I have gotten fed up of taking this unit out of the cabinet so I recently ordered some cheapy banana plugs to make life easier. Anyway, about an hour ago the UE22 Error came back but the audio was still going. Switched the unit off and back on again and the error went away - audio continued to play with no crackling.

Does this evidence strengthen the idea that the UE22 error is to do with dry solder joints, and that heat is causing the problem to re-occur? Explains why some people leave their units alone for a while to find that the error disappears when they power the unit on.

For the heck of it, i've now installed a 40x40mm fan and used some Kapton tape to help channel air through the heatsink fins. The fan will be powered via the 12V rail from my HTPC which usually sits on top. For testing purposes i'll probably hook it up to a 12V transformer.

Yes, I'm clutching at straws, and whilst most people would just go out and get a repair or buy another unit, I'm a (just graduated) student with an interest in hi-fi/audio who saved all my pennies to buy this on the day of release. I'd rather do some DIY/have an argument with Pioneer to keep this going until I can afford something shiny, but i'll be looking elsewhere...

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post #21 of 522 Old 08-16-2015, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by randomrat View Post
Just thought i'd report back on how things are going after the heatsink addition. Since my last post, the receiver has been playing the Inception blu-ray on endless repeat, and since 4 hours ago things were dandy.

Then I decided to point my 40W desk lamp, about 16" high, towards the decoding chips to see how it'd react - the reason why I did this was because I thought A) i'd push the unit to see how it'd cope and B) the cabinet that this unit normally sits in gets warm when both the receiver and the HTPC are running. I have gotten fed up of taking this unit out of the cabinet so I recently ordered some cheapy banana plugs to make life easier. Anyway, about an hour ago the UE22 Error came back but the audio was still going. Switched the unit off and back on again and the error went away - audio continued to play with no crackling.

Does this evidence strengthen the idea that the UE22 error is to do with dry solder joints, and that heat is causing the problem to re-occur? Explains why some people leave their units alone for a while to find that the error disappears when they power the unit on.

For the heck of it, i've now installed a 40x40mm fan and used some Kapton tape to help channel air through the heatsink fins. The fan will be powered via the 12V rail from my HTPC which usually sits on top. For testing purposes i'll probably hook it up to a 12V transformer.

Yes, I'm clutching at straws, and whilst most people would just go out and get a repair or buy another unit, I'm a (just graduated) student with an interest in hi-fi/audio who saved all my pennies to buy this on the day of release. I'd rather do some DIY/have an argument with Pioneer to keep this going until I can afford something shiny, but i'll be looking elsewhere...

randomrat,

Thanks for your investigative work. I think your on to something that Onkyo/Pioneer does not want to live up too.

If your theory works and then can be replicated by another owner and Onkyo/Pioneer engineers then I see no reason why Onkyo/Pioneer could consider a customer care program that would fix affected units.

What I see is that we are slowly building our case to eventually affect a decision that needs to be made by Onkyo/Pioneer.

Let's all continue to report these findings in this thread.

Last edited by Edllguy; 08-16-2015 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Minor addition.
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post #22 of 522 Old 08-16-2015, 04:44 PM
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The last pix shows the fan blowing toward the rear panel...
Since the power supply is in front of the fan, the fan is taking the hot air from the power supply and circulating this to the already heated ICs..
U may have better results by reorienting the direction of the fan's airflow..
Additionally..
As Pioneer recommends be sure to provide @ least 4-5" of free air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover, and don't stack any component on top. Also since the output amplifier stage uses the rear panel as a heat sink be sure to keep the rear panel clear as well...
Note that a 10% increase in operating temperature can/will decrease reliability by 40%..

Just my $0.02...
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post #23 of 522 Old 08-16-2015, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
The last pix shows the fan blowing toward the rear panel...
Since the power supply is in front of the fan, the fan is taking the hot air from the power supply and circulating this to the already heated ICs..
U may have better results by reorienting the direction of the fan's airflow..
Additionally..
As Pioneer recommends be sure to provide @ least 4-5" of free air clearance for the L/R sides and top cover, and don't stack any component on top. Also since the output amplifier stage uses the rear panel as a heat sink be sure to keep the rear panel clear as well...
Note that a 10% increase in operating temperature can/will decrease reliability by 40%..

Just my $0.02...
Thank you for your suggestions.

Your reasoning about the fan stands perfectly, I thought this also when deciding which way to position the fan. The reason why I still chose to place the fan in a "push" configuration was because the transformer is sectioned off by a metal panel and beam - you might be able to spot it on one of my previous pictures. That transformer does get very hot indeed (shouldn't they be more efficient in this day and age?), but it seems that there is no way for hot air to reach to the back of the unit where the circuitry is. Additionally, as this fan doesn't move much air, pulling heat away may not be as effective as pushing air over it. I've always wanted an IR laser thermometer, maybe this is the perfect excuse to buy one and experiment!


Your second point is something I should have done a long time ago and this is me probably paying the price now - stacking is my only option however. Whats the best way to add clearance? Would adding "hifi style" feet underneath the existing ones on the HTPC look silly?
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post #24 of 522 Old 08-16-2015, 06:52 PM
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Thought I'd chime in with a little test I did a few months ago. I've always thought Pioneers were the coolest running avr's out there. Both of mine are from 2009, an Elite vsx-23 (bought used about 3-4 years ago) and an SC-25 (bought used a year or two ago).

I put a cheap thermometer on top of my 23 (which is in a 24" x 24" x 12" shelf) and measured the temp with 4, 6 and 8 ohm speakers. The results (switching the speakers in and out repeatedly) was 95 degrees for the 8 ohm speakers, 105 for the 6 ohm and 115 for the 4 ohm. This doesn't seem excessively hot to me. Do newer Pioneer avr's run much hotter then this. Remember, the thermometer was on top of the avr and not inside of it. It just seems to me other avr's (Onkyo's in particular) have run much hotter than this.

My SC-25 see's lite useage but the 23 is on for 6 to 12 hours a day, in that little cubby hole, without any problems. Are newer Pioneer receivers running hotter these days or is the heat just wind up in the wrong place?

Just curious.

BTW, this is at least one reason to buy an avr that's a few years old. These issue will have cropped up by then. Just trying to justify my buying vintage (in electronic terms anyway) stuff ).
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post #25 of 522 Old 08-17-2015, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c353 View Post
Thought I'd chime in with a little test I did a few months ago. I've always thought Pioneers were the coolest running avr's out there. Both of mine are from 2009, an Elite vsx-23 (bought used about 3-4 years ago) and an SC-25 (bought used a year or two ago).

I put a cheap thermometer on top of my 23 (which is in a 24" x 24" x 12" shelf) and measured the temp with 4, 6 and 8 ohm speakers. The results (switching the speakers in and out repeatedly) was 95 degrees for the 8 ohm speakers, 105 for the 6 ohm and 115 for the 4 ohm. This doesn't seem excessively hot to me. Do newer Pioneer avr's run much hotter then this. Remember, the thermometer was on top of the avr and not inside of it. It just seems to me other avr's (Onkyo's in particular) have run much hotter than this.

My SC-25 see's lite useage but the 23 is on for 6 to 12 hours a day, in that little cubby hole, without any problems. Are newer Pioneer receivers running hotter these days or is the heat just wind up in the wrong place?

Just curious.

BTW, this is at least one reason to buy an avr that's a few years old. These issue will have cropped up by then. Just trying to justify my buying vintage (in electronic terms anyway) stuff ).
Hi gene,

I remember that Pioneer was quoted as saying that they waited 2 years to redesign their top tier receivers which boasted a cooler running design especially with high loads at high volumes while also benefiting from drawing less power . They called it D3 technology which is still implemented today. However, you may have a point that heat build up, even though being low, may be in an area of receiver that puts extra stress on sensitive parts as shown in the pictures of earlier posts. If true across the board then that means all Pioneer receivers built in 2011/2012 is eventually going to fail which I hope is not the case. Speculating further this possible design or manufacturing flaw shows itself as the UE22 Error failure when the receivers do not get enough ventilation. Again this is all speculation on my part and I still hope that a solution can be found as I don't think that Pioneer receiver owners are purposely starving these receivers from airflow.

Last edited by Edllguy; 11-16-2015 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Minor additions.
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post #26 of 522 Old 08-18-2015, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edllguy View Post
Hi gene,

I remember that Pioneer was quoted as saying that they waited 2 years to redesign their top tier receivers which boasted a cooler running design especially with high loads at high volumes while also benefiting from drawing less power . They called it D3 technology which is still implemented today. However, you may have a point that heat build up, even though being low, may be in an area of receiver that puts extra stress on sensitive parts as shown in the pictures of earlier posts. If true across the board then that means all Pioneer receivers built in 2010/2011 is eventually going to fail which I hope is not the case. Speculating further this possible design or manufacturing flaw shows itself as the UE22 Error failure when the receivers do not get enough ventilation. Again this is all speculation on my part and I still hope that a solution can be found as I don't think that Pioneer receiver owners are purposely starving these receivers from airflow.
One of the main reasons why I chose to purchase the SC-LX85 for the living room was the fact that it used Class D amplification, as it wouldn't cause the cabinet I put it in to get hot. Funnily enough I own the Onkyo TX-SR876 and in comparison the SC-LX85 runs stone cold.

Onkyo's 876 was pretty much famous, along with other models such as the TX-SR607 and 605 for having HDMI switching problems, as heat from underneath the HDMI board caused the capacitors to dry up. Additionally the use of Class A/B amplification generates even more heat - so much that the end result means I can't even leave my hand on the top of the unit for more than 10 seconds! And the irony is that my unit still works just fine >.< Totally jinxed myself.

So, after Onkyo's acquisition, has Pioneer inherited their engineers and problems too?

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post #27 of 522 Old 08-18-2015, 04:47 PM
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Same problem, did find a web site where people are getting a temporary fix by using a heat gun on the DTS chip for 20-30 seconds. I did this and it worked for a couple of months, then had to redo it but only gut a couple of weeks out of it. Just had to do it again.. but not expecting it to stay fixed for very long.
OK, time to hit my receiver with the heat gun again. Lasted 9 days this time.

My thoughts on heat... This receiver is in my basement with a temperature of 68 degree's. Temperatures on the board range from 90 to 100 degrees. That doesn't seem hot enough to cause a solder problem. Currently I am only using HDMI passthrough so not even stressing the unit very much at all. I expect I will be buying a new receiver this weekend.
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post #28 of 522 Old 08-18-2015, 08:23 PM
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It doesn't have to be too hot to have solder problems. Remember, things expand when heated and contract when cooled, and chips and circuit boards have different rate of expansion. It just takes a few degrees for the expansion to put stress on the joints and weak joints can fail.

It's not solder melting that causes the issue, it's mechanical stress
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post #29 of 522 Old 08-23-2015, 01:23 PM
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My pioneer SC-1222-K is also experiencing this issue.

I bought it on Amazon and tried to return it within 30 days and my RMA was rejected. I filled a complaint against Amazon with the BBB and Amazon politely told me to take a hike.

Now, I'm disputing the charges with my bank. Pioneer pulled one over on us and Amazon is trying to pull one over on me.

Lesson learned, Amazon and Pioneer both stink.
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post #30 of 522 Old 08-23-2015, 07:02 PM
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i am going to add my story to this thread. I have a pioneer SC-1222-K that I purchased used on ebay a few months ago. Paid a pretty penny for this lightly used unit. it worked fine out of the box. I didn't use it much over the past few months because we were in the process of moving to our new house. Now that we are in the new house, I have used it a half dozen times. This afternoon, we watched a movie without any problems. Later this evening, I popped in another video and I get the UE22 error. Did some searching online and here I am. Apparently I am also a victim of this known problem. Its frustrating to me and I purchased this used at a significant discount. I can only imagine how pissed I would have been if I'd have paid retail pricing.
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