Yamaha RX-A3050 v. Denon AVR-X7200WA - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha RX-A3050 v. Denon AVR-X7200WA

Folks:
I'm considering purchasing a new A/V receiver for a 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos set-up. I'm having GREAT trouble choosing between a Yamaha Aventage RX-A 3050 and a Denon AVR-X7200WA. Both are HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 compliant; both rated at 150 watts per channel; both have Dolby Atmos and an upgrade for DTS:X; Yamaha unit is made in Malaysia; the Denon is made in Japan; Yamaha priced at $1,999; Denon at $2,999.
I can't decide which to buy. What is it that makes the Denon worth an extra grand? Is the Yamaha better or just as good as the Denon despite the price difference? Which should I buy and why?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #2 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 12:13 PM
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With all those extra inputs and outputs the weight of Denon is only 0.2 pounds more (37.5/37.7).. I wonder what are the guts made of in Yamaha...



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post #3 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 12:48 PM
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Just a few differences to help the decision making progress. Yamaha retains Dolby PL IIx while the Denon does not, replaced by DSU. The Denon will have the option for the Auro 3D upgrade and will most likely include DTS neural x. The Yamaha is a no go for Auro and questionable/doubtful for Yamaha. The Denon has Audyssey xt32 which can be great if it works well with your speakers. If not,the manual tweaking abilities are very weak. Yamaha has YPAO which from an auto eq standpoint is probably behind a notch behind xt32 (at least in the subwoofer dept) but it's parametric eq capabilities are significantly better if you choose to manually tweak. Yamaha has some pretty awesome DSP soundfields from what I've read compared to most.
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post #4 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 12:56 PM
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And also since you will be using 7.2.2 setup i bet a Denon will be far more powerful than yamaha since yamahas are know to have a very low output running in surround mode especially in 7 or 9 channels...i bet it can nearly double the watts numbers on yamaha in surround...

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post #5 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 03:03 PM
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If using external amps, the X7200WA also has a Custom AMP ASSIGN feature in which you can reassign the unused on board amps (FL/FR, SBL/SBR, HT2L/HT2R) for use with another speakers (eg. Zone 2 or Zone 3).
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post #6 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerthal View Post
Folks:
I'm considering purchasing a new A/V receiver for a 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos set-up. I'm having GREAT trouble choosing between a Yamaha Aventage RX-A 3050 and a Denon AVR-X7200WA. Both are HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 compliant; both rated at 150 watts per channel; both have Dolby Atmos and an upgrade for DTS:X; Yamaha unit is made in Malaysia; the Denon is made in Japan; Yamaha priced at $1,999; Denon at $2,999.
I can't decide which to buy. What is it that makes the Denon worth an extra grand? Is the Yamaha better or just as good as the Denon despite the price difference? Which should I buy and why?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
I have become sold on Yamaha after years with marantz and HK. Great clear sound, solid feature package at a reasonable price. For the extra 1000 bucks I would upgrade to the new cx-a5100 and run an external amp. Still the demon flagship is a nice unit but until D&M upgrades there app and connectivity I'm sticking with Yamaha. Of course you can use the 3050 and an external amp as well.
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post #7 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 06:03 PM
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gpmbc: I am really quite confused by your statement that the Yamaha RX-A3050 retains Dolby PLIIx, rather than providing access to the Dolby DSU processor (wasn't this part of the standard Atmos upgrade?). The Dolby DSU is capable of up-mixing to 7.1.4 (rear surround & front + presence speakers), while I believe that the PLIIx decoder doesn't make use of any presence channels. Even the PLIIz decoder was originally only configured for front height channels, with no rear presence capability. The user manual for the RX-A3050 indicates that one can choose to identify every presence speaker as either height or overhead, so it's hard for me to understand why those speakers wouldn't be properly utilized with non-Atmos Dolby 5.1/7.1 content.

My understanding, from recent communication with Yamaha technical support, was that Blu-Ray audio which was delivered to the AVR as PCM (as is the case with the PS3 where the intrinsic Dolby and DTS decoders cannot be overridden) will be up-mixed using their Cinema DSP HD3 and content which is delivered as bitstream to the AVR (whether Dolby 5.1/7.1 or Atmos, as well as DTS 5.1/7.1 or DTS:X) will make use of the respective Dolby or DTS decoders/up-mixers within the RX-A3050.

There are several forum threads scattered around the internet which have praised the ability of the new Dolby DSU to create an almost Atmos-like experience via the up-mix of legacy 5.1/7.1 sound tracks. How will that be possible for those of us with 7.2.4 layouts using the RX-A3050 with bitstream content if the user is stuck with PL IIx?? Lastly, did your recent posting indicate that you actually have access to the RX-A3050? Thanks for any clarification that you can provide.

Last edited by docrog; 08-09-2015 at 08:43 PM.
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post #8 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 06:37 PM
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Hi

I am also interested in Yamaha CX a5100 pre amp . I feel Yamaha reliability will be very good. Which one is better comparing this CX a5100 to Marantz 7702mk2?
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post #9 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
gmpmc: I am really quite confused by your statement that the Yamaha RX-A3050 retains Dolby PLIIx, rather than providing access to the Dolby DSU processor (wasn't this part of the standard Atmos upgrade?). The Dolby DSU is capable of up-mixing to 7.1.4 (rear surround & front + presence speakers), while I believe that the PLIIx decoder doesn't make use of any presence channels. Even the PLIIz decoder was originally only configured for front height channels, with no rear presence capability. The user manual for the RX-A3050 indicates that one can choose to identify every presence speaker as either height or overhead, so it's hard for me to understand why those speakers wouldn't be properly utilized with non-Atmos Dolby 5.1/7.1 content.

My understanding, from recent communication with Yamaha technical support, was that Blu-Ray audio which was delivered to the AVR as PCM (as is the case with the PS3 where the intrinsic Dolby and DTS decoders cannot be overridden) will be up-mixed using their Cinema DSP HD3 and content which is delivered as bitstream to the AVR (whether Dolby 5.1/7.1 or Atmos, as well as DTS 5.1/7.1 or DTS:X) will make use of the respective Dolby or DTS decoders/up-mixers within the RX-A3050.

There are several forum threads scattered around the internet which have praised the ability of the new Dolby DSU to create an almost Atmos-like experience via the up-mix of legacy 5.1/7.1 sound tracks. How will that be possible for those of us with 7.2.4 layouts using the RX-A3050 with bitstream content if the user is stuck with PL IIx?? Lastly, did your recent posting indicate that you actually have access to the RX-A3050? Thanks for any clarification that you can provide.
Hey, I should have added that the 3050 has Dolby PLIIx in addition to DSU. I believe Yamaha is pretty much alone in this regard. The other brands have DSU but at the expense of PLIIx. I've read where some users who really liked PLIIx for music were disappointed not to have that option anymore as DSU has it's own signature sound. Also, I've had no experience with the 3050 or any Yamaha but it is on my short list of contenders for my next receiver.

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post #10 of 58 Old 08-09-2015, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Hey, I should have added that the 3050 has Dolby PLIIx in addition to DSU. I believe Yamaha is pretty much alone in this regard. The other brands have DSU but at the expense of PLIIx. I've read where some users who really liked PLIIx for music were disappointed not to have that option anymore as DSU has it's own signature sound. Also, I've had no experience with the 3050 or any Yamaha but it is on my short list of contenders for my next receiver.
I appreciate your response, gpmbc. I guess that I misunderstood your post and am glad to read that PL IIx is in addition to the Dolby DSU. I hope to obtain this AVR sometime this week and look forward to comparing the soundfield in my 7.2.4 HT as generated by the Dolby DSU up-mix (bitstream from my Samsung Blu-Ray player) versus the Yamaha Cinema DSP HD3 up-mix (PCM from my PS3) on the same 5.1/7.1 legacy content.
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post #11 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If using external amps, the X7200WA also has a Custom AMP ASSIGN feature in which you can reassign the unused on board amps (FL/FR, SBL/SBR, HT2L/HT2R) for use with another speakers (eg. Zone 2 or Zone 3).
Just to make it clear for me:
so with the Denon you can configure a 7.1.4 with an ext amp for the front speakers and then assign the unused front terminals for zone 2? Cool! Can that also be done with the lower end Denons?

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post #12 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 802Diamond View Post
Just to make it clear for me:
so with the Denon you can configure a 7.1.4 with an ext amp for the front speakers and then assign the unused front terminals for zone 2? Cool! Can that also be done with the lower end Denons?
No, rather the "flagship" Denon's (ie. X7200WA) are the only one's with this feature.
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post #13 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 05:38 AM
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The receivers aren't much different. The 7200 has a more powerful amplifier (regardless of what the marketing dept says) but it will only matter if you don't use an external amp for the front 3 and you play really loud. The 7200 has more upgrade options (Like Auro 3D), but I believe they cost extra and there's a very real chance you would never be able to use them. Denon has audyssey xt32, which works well. I've used both audyssey and ypao and they more or less do the same thing. xt32 is better at bass IMO.

The main reason to buy the 7200 was it could be upgraded to hdmi 2.0a ports. This made sense last year, but now that all receivers have them, it really doesn't make sense to pay an extra grand for the 7200.

Denon is slated to release a 6200 model in a month or so. It will be roughly on par with the Yamaha and will likely cost about the same. My gut feeling is once the 6200 is released, the price on the 7200 will drop, but it's just a feeling.

I'm getting the Yamaha, hopefully this week, so I may be subconsciously biased. I'm getting it over the Denon simply because every Yamaha receiver I've owned (The 3050 will be my fourth) has been bulletproof. Having to replace an AVR or get it repaired (Even under warranty) is a major hassle and something I want to avoid at all costs.
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post #14 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 11:49 AM
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I have the 3040 and had the 5200. The 3040 kills is with actual sound and richness DACs are better. Now Id like to see if the 6200 come out what happens to the prices of course. BUT I herd through a good source the Denon is going bust on the home theatre route ,weather this is true or not is to be seen. But II can say the are NUTS to want people to drop a GRAND over the RX3050 makes no sense .Plus f you buy a W model you have to pay 200 to upgrade ti for DTSX. That's Crap.
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post #15 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull0669 View Post
I have the 3040 and had the 5200. The 3040 kills is with actual sound and richness DACs are better. Now Id like to see if the 6200 come out what happens to the prices of course. BUT I herd through a good source the Denon is going bust on the home theatre route ,weather this is true or not is to be seen. But II can say the are NUTS to want people to drop a GRAND over the RX3050 makes no sense .Plus f you buy a W model you have to pay 200 to upgrade ti for DTSX. That's Crap.
The DTS:X and HDCP 2.2 upgrade are both free on the X7200W.
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post #16 of 58 Old 08-10-2015, 01:33 PM
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But the 7200W is not unless a hardware upgrade to the WA version.
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post #17 of 58 Old 08-12-2015, 06:16 PM
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by Viktor Pashin View Post
With all those extra inputs and outputs the weight of Denon is only 0.2 pounds more (37.5/37.7).. I wonder what are the guts made of in Yamaha...




Just looking at the back it looks like the Denon is the way to go if you have many older equipment if like me you have only HDMi sources then Yamaha But ultimately it comes down to which one sounds best!

Also the Denon has a USB input Yamaha does' not seem to have it!

Last edited by wse; 08-12-2015 at 06:19 PM.
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post #18 of 58 Old 08-12-2015, 06:23 PM
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Question

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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Hey, I should have added that the 3050 has Dolby PLIIx in addition to DSU. I believe Yamaha is pretty much alone in this regard. The other brands have DSU but at the expense of PLIIx. I've read where some users who really liked PLIIx for music were disappointed not to have that option anymore as DSU has it's own signature sound. Also, I've had no experience with the 3050 or any Yamaha but it is on my short list of contenders for my next receiver.
It doesn't show DSU

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio...a3050_black_u/
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post #19 of 58 Old 08-12-2015, 06:54 PM
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Guess we'll have to wait for some user reports. That'd be a deal breaker for sure if that was missing.
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post #20 of 58 Old 08-12-2015, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Just looking at the back it looks like the Denon is the way to go if you have many older equipment if like me you have only HDMi sources then Yamaha But ultimately it comes down to which one sounds best!

Also the Denon has a USB input Yamaha does' not seem to have it!
The Yamaha USB input is on the front.

It doesn't look to me like the Denon has significantly more legacy inputs. It appears to have more legacy outputs.
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post #21 of 58 Old 08-15-2015, 08:42 AM
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The Yamaha has three component and it looks like four composite video and three coax and three optical audio in. Seems adequate. DSU has been verified on Yamaha specific threads.

Last edited by jpco; 08-15-2015 at 10:02 AM.
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post #22 of 58 Old 08-15-2015, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Just looking at the back it looks like the Denon is the way to go if you have many older equipment if like me you have only HDMi sources then Yamaha But ultimately it comes down to which one sounds best!

Also the Denon has a USB input Yamaha does not seem to have it!
The X7200WA has two USB inputs, one on the front and one on the back. The Yamaha has one USB input on the front.
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post #23 of 58 Old 08-15-2015, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Guess we'll have to wait for some user reports. That'd be a deal breaker for sure if that was missing.
All Atmos models to include the A3050 include DSU (Dolby Surround) with the Atmos decoder.
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post #24 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 02:28 PM
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The main reason to buy the 7200 was it could be upgraded to hdmi 2.0a ports.
I just want to confirm that the 'WA' version of the 7200 includes both HDCP 2.2 & HDMI 2.0a ports, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No, rather the "flagship" Denon's (ie. X7200WA) are the only one's with this feature.
This is the one killer feature that I truly do want so I can put a decent outboard amp on the FL/FR and leave the unused inboard for zone-2 outdoor speakers.

However, since the A3050 has 11 inboard amps, can it natively support an Atmos 5.1.4 setup + Zone2? My gut says yes but looking at the rear of the receiver I notice the Zone2/3 posts are shared with the Front & Rear Presence speakers, which I assume would be where my Front & Rear Atmos Height speakers would go. A 5.1.4 Atmos setup doesn't use the 'Surround' speakers so am I up a creek adding inboard Zone2 or are these labels just suggestions much like Denon labels their HDMI ports and I can put whatever speaker on whatever post and YPAO/Audyssey would figure out which is where?
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post #25 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 06:30 PM
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I just want to confirm that the 'WA' version of the 7200 includes both HDCP 2.2 & HDMI 2.0a ports, correct?
Correct.

Quote:
This is the one killer feature that I truly do want so I can put a decent outboard amp on the FL/FR and leave the unused inboard for zone-2 outdoor speakers.

However, since the A3050 has 11 inboard amps, can it natively support an Atmos 5.1.4 setup + Zone2? My gut says yes but looking at the rear of the receiver I notice the Zone2/3 posts are shared with the Front & Rear Presence speakers, which I assume would be where my Front & Rear Atmos Height speakers would go. A 5.1.4 Atmos setup doesn't use the 'Surround' speakers so am I up a creek adding inboard Zone2 or are these labels just suggestions much like Denon labels their HDMI ports and I can put whatever speaker on whatever post and YPAO/Audyssey would figure out which is where?
Just as with the X7200WA, the A3050 only has 9 on board amps, so no, the A3050 cannot do 5.1.4 + Zone 2.
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post #26 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Just as with the X7200WA, the A3050 only has 9 on board amps, so no, the A3050 cannot do 5.1.4 + Zone 2.
Doh, the marketing blob on Yamaha's site says "Experience up to 11.2-channels of audio processing" and I glanced over the "processing" bit.

This is purely hypothetical, but lets say for some odd reason I wanted to setup a 3.1.4 Atmos system + Zone2. Even though that's 9 channels, I would be still be SOL[*] with any 9-ch D&M or Yamaha AVR because you can't have both Zone2 & 4 heights at the same time. Is that correct?

[*] Excluding the 7200WA due to it's custom amp assign feature.
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post #27 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
And also since you will be using 7.2.2 setup i bet a Denon will be far more powerful than yamaha since yamahas are know to have a very low output running in surround mode especially in 7 or 9 channels...i bet it can nearly double the watts numbers on yamaha in surround...

I would say it's more like 3x more watts. From what I see from the bench tests Yamaha receivers usually are in the 30watts per channel when all channels are driven. Some of the denon and pioneer receivers can do all channels at 100watts or more.
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post #28 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 08:39 PM
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I would say it's more like 3x more watts. From what I see from the bench tests Yamaha receivers usually are in the 30watts per channel when all channels are driven. Some of the denon and pioneer receivers can do all channels at 100watts or more.
You can buy a lot of watts of external amps for the $1000 bucks difference! I am running a Sonance 750 with 500/channel for my fronts that cost me $750, just saying.
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post #29 of 58 Old 09-02-2015, 08:51 PM
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I was a big Yamaha fan back in the late 80s and early 90s. I then migrated over to Denon for their warmer sound. However, with Dirac Live I am free to wander now that I am receiver/vendor agnostic for digital correction. I must say the 3050 is on my short, short list. I would say my signature will say Yamaha prior to ringing in 2016
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post #30 of 58 Old 09-11-2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I was a big Yamaha fan back in the late 80s and early 90s. I then migrated over to Denon for their warmer sound. However, with Dirac Live I am free to wander now that I am receiver/vendor agnostic for digital correction. I must say the 3050 is on my short, short list. I would say my signature will say Yamaha prior to ringing in 2016
Denon has a warmer sound than Yamaha?
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