The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thanks. We are on the same page here. I too am a DSU fanboy and would not want it to not work properly, as I use it for the 99.5% of my movie collection which is not Atmos. And I love it. Sci-Fi mode may be great - I hope it is, really - but I would still want my DSU mode too. I hope all of this gets resolved, along with my own concerns about Yamaha not seeming to follow Dolby properly wrt to Atmos speaker placements. I love Yamaha, but it all has to work right or I'm not interested. That's why I abandoned them in the first place - YPAO didn't do what I wanted so I moved to Onkyo for Audyssey XT32 and then to Denon when Onkyo dropped Audyssey. Now I have external room EQ (Dirac) so I can choose any make I like without worrying about REQ, hence my interest in coming back to Yamaha. I love my Denon X5200 too but there's something about Yamahas that appeals to me - design, build quality, reliability etc.

Totally get it.

Just to make sure I post this.

I just checked and double checked and the Atmos channel / height channel info / sound is sent in all of those DSP modes, even standard. Again, to me it's the correct info. Coming from a DSU super sad fanboy.
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post #902 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
On the bright side, if you do want to jump ship then I've heard the 6200's are already en route to distributors.
Interesting. I've been out of the Denon thread so I did not see that.
Now my antenna is up. Shoot. I really like things on this Yamaha
Thanks for the heads up.
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post #903 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I am glad you have a solution which pleases you, but it misses the point. DSU should work properly, whether you prefer Sci-Fi or not. From what you keep saying, DSU does not work properly in your unit. That means it is broken. And that means Yamaha need to fix it. Sci-Fi might be brilliant, but it doesn?t mean that DSU can be broken.

It sure does miss the point. I agree. One of the reasons I'm still at this. deep down I'm pissed off.

I really like a lot about the 3050 and I think my return window will be over by the time the 6200 comes out. I've been thru 2 other avr's recently and I'm worn out and just want to watch movies. To me it's like Yamaha made their DSP's act like DSU and made DSU - well, I better be nice. So for now I like my overhead stuff on both Atmos and non Atmos. I was a DSU fanboy so that's tough coming from me.

I think eventually it will come to light and be addressed so if and when I'll take the fix.

FYI
I feel your pain, I am on my third receiver just killing time until the x6200 or sr7010 comes out.

I buy and return and get another one until my return period is over.
After testing x1200 Sr5010 and the A1050.
I made up my mind to purchase A3050 until I read your comment.

My decision to buy A3050 was not base on audio performance,but had some issues with 3D playback on the D+M
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post #904 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:47 AM
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Hello Stanton you like answering my questions so here's one,on the front panel of the 2050 is it suppose to say atmos when watching a movie with it,my says avi decode or straight either way it sounds great.And when I hit info on the 2050 on screen says atmos so I guess its ok just wondering,also put a cooling fan on top of the 2050,its in a open rack but it gets warm not hot like old Onkyo avrs,besides a little cool air never hurts anything! Thxs
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post #905 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Hello Stanton you like answering my questions so here's one,on the front panel of the 2050 is it suppose to say atmos when watching a movie with it,my says avi decode or straight either way it sounds great.And when I hit info on the 2050 on screen says atmos so I guess its ok just wondering,also put a cooling fan on top of the 2050,its in a open rack but it gets warm not hot like old Onkyo avrs,besides a little cool air never hurts anything! Thxs
When I had the A1050,playing ATMOS track display ATMOS on the receiver.
You have to set your audio source output to Straight.

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post #906 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Hello Stanton you like answering my questions so here's one,on the front panel of the 2050 is it suppose to say atmos when watching a movie with it,my says avi decode or straight either way it sounds great.And when I hit info on the 2050 on screen says atmos so I guess its ok just wondering,also put a cooling fan on top of the 2050,its in a open rack but it gets warm not hot like old Onkyo avrs,besides a little cool air never hurts anything! Thxs
I got you covered!
Use the "info" button to toggle the front display between DSP type (like "straight" or "sci-fi") and signal type (like "Dolby Atmos" or "Dolby Digital"). I always leave the signal decode type on the display since I don't switch DSP modes much (unless I'm watching an Atmos disk and go "straight"); plus it's interesting to watch the different stream types as a disc is loading/booting (like PCM/Dolby Digital/DTS-MA). The only time I don't put decode type in the display is when I'm listening to USB/FLAC files or Pandora when I set it to "song title" (you can probably tell I don't like using the TV to display info).
Oh, and you definitely don't need that fan with Yamaha (unlike Onkyo's that burn up): warm is normal and I've never had a Yamaha with heat problems (and my AVR sits on the top shelf of an open back rack).

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post #907 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:13 AM
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Guy from Yamaha e-mailed me and asked a few questions and wants me to send my config file by longing on to AVR and downloading which I'm going to do.

Some of his questions led me to think about recording the difference for him and e-mailing it to him. So i did. Laying my iPhone on the top of my Klipsh Dolby Enabled speaker grill / mesh which is flat.

Anyone interested in hearing what i recorded and sent can shoot me an e-mail and I will send them. They are very small .MOV files.

The best one is from the Atmos trailer amaze where onscreen it says in big white block letters " Overhead Speakers " and then big thunder. With DSU there is no thunder sound. With Yamaha's Sci Fi or Standard or any of the others there is a BIG thunder, I recorded it in standard mode. Too funny the screen says overhead speakers and then it comes from surrounds.........

I also have the rain from that clip after the Thunder and its the almost the same. With the rain its a very slight defused sound in DSU and Rain sound in Standard. I also went to the scene in Harry Potter where it thunders and recorded that both ways. Same result.

I guess if you PM me I can then give you my e-mail and i will reply with clips. Why not, maybe then I won't seem so nuts.

I tried to drag them over like a pic but it did not like that.
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post #908 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:21 AM
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I've been reading this thread from top to bottom, and I'm wondering about one thing. Am I really the only one who uses straight when watching movies? Note. I have 7.1 and the Yamaha duplicate the surround to surround back when watching 5.1 movies.
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post #909 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
I've been reading this thread from top to bottom, and I'm wondering about one thing. Am I really the only one who uses straight when watching movies? Note. I have 7.1 and the Yamaha duplicate the surround to surround back when watching 5.1 movies.
Interesting.

When i was testing some stuff in regards to sounds form my surround rears I had the same thing. Set to straight on 5.1 content and yes, sound was coming from rears. I've been so tied up with the DSU stuff, i totally forgot about it. I may go in and double check and repost.
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post #910 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
I've been reading this thread from top to bottom, and I'm wondering about one thing. Am I really the only one who uses straight when watching movies? Note. I have 7.1 and the Yamaha duplicate the surround to surround back when watching 5.1 movies.
I put Blackhawk down from Netflix and it came thru my rear surrounds. I then put Star Wars DVD, not bluray. Its as old as dirt. 5.1 and it came thru rear surrounds.
FYI
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post #911 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Interesting.
When i was testing some stuff in regards to sounds form my surround rears I had the same thing. Set to straight on 5.1 content and yes, sound was coming from rears. I've been so tied up with the DSU stuff, i totally forgot about it. I may go in and double check and repost.
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
I put Blackhawk down from Netflix and it came thru my rear surrounds. I then put Star Wars DVD, not bluray. Its as old as dirt. 5.1 and it came thru rear surrounds.
FYI
The reason for the surround coming to the rear/back surround was intended in my part. But my question stands. Am I the only one that likes Straight rather than the DSP? I can't see the reason for wanting a different sound mix (Sci-fi, Adventure etc.) than the Sound Mixing and Sound Editing crews did on a $200 million movie. But of course people have different taste and I know by me asking I'm on thin ice due to the many audioholics that prefer the DSP's.
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post #912 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
The reason for the surround coming to the rear/back surround was intended in my part. But my question stands. Am I the only one that likes Straight rather than the DSP? I can't see the reason for wanting a different sound mix (Sci-fi, Adventure etc.) than the Sound Mixing and Sound Editing crews did on a $200 million movie.
Cool,

I may be thinking wrong but i thought if you put 5.1 in to straight mode you would get exactly out what you put in and no upixing to the surround backs. I may be wrong. First time for me having surround backs.
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post #913 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
I've been reading this thread from top to bottom, and I'm wondering about one thing. Am I really the only one who uses straight when watching movies? Note. I have 7.1 and the Yamaha duplicate the surround to surround back when watching 5.1 movies.
I always ran it so 5.1 was in Dolby EX or the equivalent with DTS. Now that I have Atmos, I use all 11 speakers for all movies. I like living in a bubble.

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post #914 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
The reason for the surround coming to the rear/back surround was intended in my part. But my question stands. Am I the only one that likes Straight rather than the DSP? I can't see the reason for wanting a different sound mix (Sci-fi, Adventure etc.) than the Sound Mixing and Sound Editing crews did on a $200 million movie. But of course people have different taste and I know by me asking I'm on thin ice due to the many audioholics that prefer the DSP's.

I get what you're saying. I have an older Yamaha, and I usually watch Straight. I even prefer 5.1 to upmixed 7.1. It may be in my head, but I feel the integration of surrounds and front sound stage is better that way.

The DSP of Yamaha is not really upmixing. Standard does not use height speakers and it only upmixes 5.1 > 7.1 if you set it to force extended surround. At least that's how it works in my unit. It adds reverberation and delay to the surrounds and surround backs to make the room sound like a larger space. You still get the original sound mix intent, it just sounds like it's in a different space.

Standard is not offensive at all. What I'd like to be able to demo is whether new units Cinema DSP sound that much better than my RX-V1800 from 2008 or so. If I'm going to listen straight, then the value of a new AVR is only in Atmos and DTS:X, and content is limited, especially for my viewing habits.
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post #915 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:19 AM
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Cool,
I may be thinking wrong but i thought if you put 5.1 in to straight mode you would get exactly out what you put in and no upixing to the surround backs. I may be wrong. First time for me having surround backs.
It's called "Extended Surround (EXTD Surround)" - See attachment.
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post #916 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:20 AM
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Alright

I'm tired of messing around and trying to go off off my prior history and recollection. I'm headed to best buy to but a Denon and set it up and run DSU.

I'llreport later if I had a bad memory and thunder does not come from ceiling or if I remembered correctly.

And I am curious if straight should not send ido to surround backs in 5.1 or if it should and is normal.
Off to best buy.
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post #917 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
I've been reading this thread from top to bottom, and I'm wondering about one thing. Am I really the only one who uses straight when watching movies? Note. I have 7.1 and the Yamaha duplicate the surround to surround back when watching 5.1 movies.
Nope. I'm with you, but I've set Auto under Ext Surround, to duplicate my sides to my rears on 5.1 material - essentially what you'd hear in a movie theater, since they have pairs of sides marching down the side walls. I want to listen to what the filmmakers intended, not tart it up by overlaying the sound of a real or imaginary theater's acoustics.

I was burned by the hideous DSP circuitry in my first AVR, a pre-HDMI NAD 5.1 unit. It was so bad that when a source stopped playing, the remaining high frequency hiss was recirculated louder and louder, until I felt like a radio astronomer listing to the cosmic microwave background.

Phil

PS For stereo or mono information, I use the "7 Channel Surround" program, which copies the FL and FR signals to both sets of surrounds, and sends L+R to the center channel speaker. This program animates all speakers even for movies that use only the center channel, like the Errol Flynn Robin Hood
Blu-ray.


Last edited by Philnick; 09-12-2015 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Learned something from the manual page attached above!
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post #918 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:40 AM
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It's called "Extended Surround (EXTD Surround)" - See attachment.
Sweet

I'll read up on that. Thanks

From iPad while driving to best buy.
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post #919 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Cool,



I may be thinking wrong but i thought if you put 5.1 in to straight mode you would get exactly out what you put in and no upixing to the surround backs. I may be wrong. First time for me having surround backs.

Did you use DSU with surround backs with the other avrs you previously owned? If not that very well could be the difference you are hearing and attributing to faulty DSU up mixing.


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post #920 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 10:35 AM
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Did you use DSU with surround backs with the other avrs you previously owned? If not that very well could be the difference you are hearing and attributing to faulty DSU up mixing.


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No. This is my first go around with 7.1. Was 5.1.2. But I did set the Yamaha up as 5.1.2 and had the same results. That was days ago when I was doing the low picking fruit trouble shooting. And if DSU gets it wrong because you run 7.1.2 then I don't want any part of that either.

Now I'm home with a Denon 4200 in the box on my floor. I'm going to reset the Yamaha as 5.1.2 and rerun just for a triple check before I take it out and put the 4200 in.
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post #921 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Guy from Yamaha e-mailed me and asked a few questions and wants me to send my config file by longing on to AVR and downloading which I'm going to do.

Some of his questions led me to think about recording the difference for him and e-mailing it to him. So i did. Laying my iPhone on the top of my Klipsh Dolby Enabled speaker grill / mesh which is flat.

Anyone interested in hearing what i recorded and sent can shoot me an e-mail and I will send them. They are very small .MOV files.

The best one is from the Atmos trailer amaze where onscreen it says in big white block letters " Overhead Speakers " and then big thunder. With DSU there is no thunder sound. With Yamaha's Sci Fi or Standard or any of the others there is a BIG thunder, I recorded it in standard mode. Too funny the screen says overhead speakers and then it comes from surrounds.........

I also have the rain from that clip after the Thunder and its the almost the same. With the rain its a very slight defused sound in DSU and Rain sound in Standard. I also went to the scene in Harry Potter where it thunders and recorded that both ways. Same result.

I guess if you PM me I can then give you my e-mail and i will reply with clips. Why not, maybe then I won't seem so nuts.

I tried to drag them over like a pic but it did not like that.
Hello, after reading a lots of your post regarding the DSU "problem" on the 3050, i'm now very interested in testing this my self. I just sold my RX-A3030 and ordered an 3050 for the Atmos. I will check this out as soon as I receive it.
I have always loved the DSP programs Yamaha have offered, but does it really "upmix" the source the same way DSU does? Is there anything new to the DSP programs in the 3050 vs 3030/3040? (or older) because of Atmos / DTS:X?

YAMAHA RX-A3050 7.1.4 ATMOS - DTS:X | Klipsch Referance RF82II - RC62II - RS52II - RS41II - RP-140SA | SVS PB-2000 | LG OLED E6 65"
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post #922 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
No. This is my first go around with 7.1. Was 5.1.2. But I did set the Yamaha up as 5.1.2 and had the same results. That was days ago when I was doing the low picking fruit trouble shooting. And if DSU gets it wrong because you run 7.1.2 then I don't want any part of that either.

Now I'm home with a Denon 4200 in the box on my floor. I'm going to reset the Yamaha as 5.1.2 and rerun just for a triple check before I take it out and put the 4200 in.
Thanks for your perseverance on this issue! I think this will really reveal any difference and give you some serious ammunition to take to Yamaha and Dolby. I appreciate it... What you're doing might benefit all of us.
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post #923 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
No. This is my first go around with 7.1. Was 5.1.2. But I did set the Yamaha up as 5.1.2 and had the same results. That was days ago when I was doing the low picking fruit trouble shooting. And if DSU gets it wrong because you run 7.1.2 then I don't want any part of that either.



Now I'm home with a Denon 4200 in the box on my floor. I'm going to reset the Yamaha as 5.1.2 and rerun just for a triple check before I take it out and put the 4200 in.

You are being very thorough . One other thing to try in your test is make sure you have both ypao and audyssey turned off. That will remove any possible differences in room correction.



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post #924 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 11:44 AM
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The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
You are being very thorough . One other thing to try in your test is make sure you have both ypao and audyssey turned off. That will remove any possible differences in room correction.



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After thinking about it some more, I'm thinking ypao could possibly be the problem. I know the Dolby enabled speakers have some special filtering built into them to make sounds seem more elevated. I wonder if ypao is flattening that out. Audyssey takes this into account..


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post #925 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 11:48 AM
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Hello, after reading a lots of your post regarding the DSU "problem" on the 3050, i'm now very interested in testing this my self. I just sold my RX-A3030 and ordered an 3050 for the Atmos. I will check this out as soon as I receive it.
I have always loved the DSP programs Yamaha have offered, but does it really "upmix" the source the same way DSU does? Is there anything new to the DSP programs in the 3050 vs 3030/3040? (or older) because of Atmos / DTS:X?
What's the DSU problem you heard about. I have been playing around with my 3050, it's about 4 days old. I am liking it more and more. I have tried the Cinema 3D and the Dolby Surround. I prefer the Dolby Surround. The opening scene in Maze Runner is awesome for not being an Atmos movie.

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post #926 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 11:58 AM
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I'm not done yet but so far it's looking like I am nuts. DSU is acting the same on this Denon 4200. I think the DSP 's were doing a better job than DSU on the Yamaha and I just remembered DSU on the other ones sounding like that. I'm a big boy and an honest yo yo. I saw someone not buying 3050 from what I was saying so I had to make good and do the real test. More in a few.
FYI
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post #927 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
No. This is my first go around with 7.1. Was 5.1.2. But I did set the Yamaha up as 5.1.2 and had the same results. That was days ago when I was doing the low picking fruit trouble shooting. And if DSU gets it wrong because you run 7.1.2 then I don't want any part of that either.

Now I'm home with a Denon 4200 in the box on my floor. I'm going to reset the Yamaha as 5.1.2 and rerun just for a triple check before I take it out and put the 4200 in.

Mark,
Somebody should pay you for all these trouble...

I think everyone in this thread appreciate your effort and sharing findings with us.

Thanks!!

PS:

I am in South Florida and the drive to your places is almost 3 hours, i would have come and give you a hand
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post #928 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 12:12 PM
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Just tried my last clip and man alive DSU is acting the same. I even went so far as to change my Dolby enhanced speakers out for my old Tannoy's I used before I got the new Klipsch and that's not it either.
My humble apologies.

Guess is says something for the Yamaha DSP's if it thunders when the screen says overhead speakers and DSU does not.

I was using a 2200 before and this test is with a 4200 but DSU is acting the same as Yamaha so I would rule that out.

Now I'm going to listen to a few things in real Atmos while 4200 is hooked up. Might as well before the swapping begins.

FYI
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post #929 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Mark,
Somebody should pay you for all these trouble...

I think everyone in this thread appreciate your effort and sharing findings with us.

Thanks!!

PS:

I am in South Florida and the drive to your places is almost 3 hours, i would have come and give you a hand
Makes me feel a little better.

My Klipsch came form down there. I picked up at Sound Advice on a business trip down there.
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post #930 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 12:56 PM
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I am getting a much better curve out of my 3050 than I was my X4000. I did lose some bass below 20Hz, but between 20 and 100 I am right at +/- 5db. I have a very large dip at 125 that I can't solve right now, but other than that I am happy with the quality of the sound. I don't get a great of chest thump, but it just sounds great, more natural. I might have had too much bass before. Still debating on the MiniDSP to handle the subs.
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