The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread. - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Mark

Were you able to ask the Yamaha rep about DTS X upgrade and if the AVENTAGE series will be getting Neural X feature.
Thought of that after I hung up. He should be e mailing me soon so I plan to spring that on him. Stay tuned
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post #962 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Thought of that after I hung up. He should be e mailing me soon so I plan to spring that on him. Stay tuned
Or indeed if the final release code of Neural:X will upmix 2.0 audio sources (as well as 5.1 & 7.1) to all your speakers.

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post #963 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:31 PM
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Searched youtube for rxa3050
Noticed a German posted video showing a silver faced 3050
Kind of nice over the black
Wish we had a choice
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post #964 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 06:55 PM
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Seeing as some like the DSP's better than the DSU, I now wonder (after I got the 3050) what the combo of the DSP programs will sound like combined with the DSU like what the A5100 will be able to do?

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post #965 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post
Seeing as some like the DSP's better than the DSU, I now wonder (after I got the 3050) what the combo of the DSP programs will sound like combined with the DSU like what the A5100 will be able to do?
To me the DSPs make it to busy. It's already busy enough with 11 speakers. I makes it sound like my room did before I put a lot of reflection control in.

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post #966 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:29 PM
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The "OFFICIAL" Yamaha 1050/2050/3050 Owner's thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
For guys running a 7.x.x set up just curious do you think you get more output/detail from surround backs or from atmos speakers?

I had a 7.1 system for the last several years and never got much value out of the rear surrounds. So I've switched to 5.2.4 and couldn't be happier. Much more sound comes out of the overheads than I ever heard out of my surround backs.
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post #967 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
Darn, that reply will cost me more money... I guess I can do 5.1.2 with my 1050 ? Would it be best in front or back ?

If doing any x.x.2 overhead implementation, they should be directly over the seating position. If doing a x.x.4 then one pair in front and one behind.

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post #968 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
If doing any x.x.2 overhead implementation, they should be directly over the seating position. If doing a x.x.4 then one pair in front and one behind.
Not possible in my case. The RX-A1050 is 7.1 channel only and I can't mount on the ceiling.
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post #969 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
Not possible in my case. The RX-A1050 is 7.1 channel only and I can't mount on the ceiling.

Dolby Atmos speakers on top of your mains then?

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post #970 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:45 PM
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Dolby Atmos speakers on top of your mains then?
Yep. I think that will be my only choice. The Kef r50 ( matches my Kef) is not cheap.
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post #971 of 9666 Old 09-12-2015, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
Yep. I think that will be my only choice. The Kef r50 ( matches my Kef) is not cheap.

Ha! Nothing about this hobby is cheap.
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post #972 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
Not possible in my case. The RX-A1050 is 7.1 channel only and I can't mount on the ceiling.
I am in the same situation. I cannot mount speakers on the ceiling either. I mounted speakers high up on the front and rear walls. Like presence speakers. It may not be as good as mounting them directly overhead, but will give you a decent sense of overhead sounds.

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post #973 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
I want to listen to what the filmmakers intended, not tart it up by overlaying the sound of a real or imaginary theater's acoustics.
I agree. But IMO the question remains if adding reverb can bring the play backed sound closer to the sound as intended by the mixer. It would in this regard be interesting to know from a film mixer whether or not he experiences CinemaDSP's Standard Mode as bringing the sound in a small home theater closer to what he was hearing when fine-tuning the mix at his (wider, taller and higher) dub stage.
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post #974 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 05:56 AM
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I had a 7.1 system for the last several years and never got much value out of the rear surrounds. So I've switched to 5.2.4 and couldn't be happier. Much more sound comes out of the overheads than I ever heard out of my surround backs.
That's what I would figure. My problem is I can't do ceiling speakers and my sofas only about 2 feet if that from the wall. I threw rears back there behind to see what it sounded like. It does add in my situation, but not a bunch. If I put the other reflected speakers I think they will end up bouncing to the very front by the tv and projector screen. I'm thinking of trying bouncers on my side surrounds not facing forward but toward my listing posiistion. Where my fronts are way up front facing me and the bounce is about perfect. When I get the mojo to rip into my stuff again I will and post results from both 7.2.2 and 5.2.4. I'm itching to do it but don't think it's a good idea for my mental health at the moment. Ha Ha
I will use my little Tannoy concentric driver speakers I used before as bouncers. Which worked fabulous, just was an interesting concoction of stuff I have to use to angle and balance them upward. If it works I will get a pair of the Klipsch add on bouncers to match the ones built into my Klipsch towers.
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post #975 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 08:02 AM
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I just got firmware update notice this morning. I can't find any note of what it's exactly fixing/adding
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post #976 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 09:23 AM
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I've been sitting on the fence waiting for DTS: X to be factory loaded and weighing the pros and cons of the Yamaha 3050, Denon X6200, and the Pioneer 90 series. MarkMul1 had me eliminating the Yamaha for a while, but after his verification that DSU was the same on both Denon and Yamaha, it's back in. I've had a Yamaha RX-Z11 since it's introduction and I really like the DSP processing. I'm all set for 7.2.4, by putting Atlantic Technology DA-44 Atmos-enabled speakers on top of my tower side surrounds for "top middle / rear" in place of the "rear presence" speakers and using an Emotiva XPA-200 for FLR. Once I study the manual, I may be able to use the "rear presence" for Zone 2 background music during Christmas/parties, etc. I'm awaiting owner reports on the Pioneer 90 series and the X6200, but at the present I'm inclined to the Yamaha 3050. It's been out for a while, now, compared to the yet to be released Denon/Pioneer AVR's and may see some good pricing around Black Friday.

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post #977 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symtex View Post
I just got firmware update notice this morning. I can't find any note of what it's exactly fixing/adding
this is probably for music cast. go to Yamaha web sight and you will learn about music cast.
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post #978 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
Just tried my last clip and man alive DSU is acting the same. I even went so far as to change my Dolby enhanced speakers out for my old Tannoy's I used before I got the new Klipsch and that's not it either.
My humble apologies.

Guess is says something for the Yamaha DSP's if it thunders when the screen says overhead speakers and DSU does not.

I was using a 2200 before and this test is with a 4200 but DSU is acting the same as Yamaha so I would rule that out.

Now I'm going to listen to a few things in real Atmos while 4200 is hooked up. Might as well before the swapping begins.

FYI
Kudos to you for the effort you have put in. It is real easy for me to isolate my overhead speakers so I'll do so tonight and give the Atmos trailer a play here and see where the thunder is coming from. I know already that the rain comes from all 4 overhead speakers - is that what you also find? One thing I don't understand is why you are using DSU on an Atmos track like the trailer?
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post #979 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 09:49 AM
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Kudos to you for the effort you have put in. It is real easy for me to isolate my overhead speakers so I'll do so tonight and give the Atmos trailer a play here and see where the thunder is coming from. I know already that the rain comes from all 4 overhead speakers - is that what you also find? One thing I don't understand is why you are using DSU on an Atmos track like the trailer?
I verified that the DSU between brands was actually working the same. There is a big difference of how sound goes to the height channels with DSU vs Yamaha DSP modes. I can send you the test comparison files if your interested.

I never used DSU on the true Atmos trailers because I never had true Atmos trailers. Only the Atmos trailers that are on YouTube. Therefore I listened to them letting DSU up is it.
My contact at Yamaha put an actual disc in the mail to me with those clips in real Atmos. I shall do some steering comparisons when I get them. Be interesting to see how close DSU and the Yamaha DSP modes get to where actual Atmos sends the info.
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post #980 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I've been sitting on the fence waiting for DTS: X to be factory loaded and weighing the pros and cons of the Yamaha 3050, Denon X6200, and the Pioneer 90 series. MarkMul1 had me eliminating the Yamaha for a while, but after his verification that DSU was the same on both Denon and Yamaha, it's back in. I've had a Yamaha RX-Z11 since it's introduction and I really like the DSP processing. I'm all set for 7.2.4, by putting Atlantic Technology DA-44 Atmos-enabled speakers on top of my tower side surrounds for "top middle / rear" in place of the "rear presence" speakers and using an Emotiva XPA-200 for FLR. Once I study the manual, I may be able to use the "rear presence" for Zone 2 background music during Christmas/parties, etc. I'm awaiting owner reports on the Pioneer 90 series and the X6200, but at the present I'm inclined to the Yamaha 3050. It's been out for a while, now, compared to the yet to be released Denon/Pioneer AVR's and may see some good pricing around Black Friday.
Earliest off production line not likely until early 2016, although not sure why waiting when there will likely be other firmware updates to load as well.
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post #981 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post
It's called "Extended Surround (EXTD Surround)" - See attachment.
I just got around to looking into this. I can't find this in my manual, not to say it's not there. Could you tell me what page / area it's in the manual. Where to find it in the menu system and or remote button would be awesome as well.

Thanks
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post #982 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 11:58 AM
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I was also able to do some video processing (up-convert) testing last night on some LaserDisc material (not to mention test out my out-board AC-3 decoder I've been saving for the day I lost the built-in one in my old Yamaha), and it really wasn't bad considering I was going from 480i via composite to 720p via HDMI on a 90" projector screen. I fiddled with some of the processing settings, but ended up just leaving them alone. I now have integrated the video "processing" vs. "through" setting into my Scenes depending on the input; it will also be interesting to compare the Yamaha 4k processing vs. my TV 4k processing when that shows up. I also re-programmed my universal remote (URC MX-450) to work with the 2050, so if anyone wants to know the vendor code I used for URC (or any other programming tips), just PM me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMul1 View Post
I verified that the DSU between brands was actually working the same. There is a big difference of how sound goes to the height channels with DSU vs Yamaha DSP modes. I can send you the test comparison files if your interested.

I never used DSU on the true Atmos trailers because I never had true Atmos trailers. Only the Atmos trailers that are on YouTube. Therefore I listened to them letting DSU up is it.
My contact at Yamaha put an actual disc in the mail to me with those clips in real Atmos. I shall do some steering comparisons when I get them. Be interesting to see how close DSU and the Yamaha DSP modes get to where actual Atmos sends the info.
OK thanks. I will try the Atmos trailers with DSU here (by sending PCM from the player) and see how the thunder is handled.
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post #984 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
I was also able to do some video processing (up-convert) testing last night on some LaserDisc material (not to mention test out my out-board AC-3 decoder I've been saving for the day I lost the built-in one in my old Yamaha), and it really wasn't bad considering I was going from 480i via composite to 720p via HDMI on a 90" projector screen. I fiddled with some of the processing settings, but ended up just leaving them alone. I now have integrated the video "processing" vs. "through" setting into my Scenes depending on the input; it will also be interesting to compare the Yamaha 4k processing vs. my TV 4k processing when that shows up. I also re-programmed my universal remote (URC MX-450) to work with the 2050, so if anyone wants to know the vendor code I used for URC (or any other programming tips), just PM me.
Cool

I let the Yamaha upscale to my 4k TV. I think looks better than the Panasonic TV's scaler. So everything going from my Apple TV and bluray player hit TV at 4K.
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post #985 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 12:19 PM
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An interesting read on the first home theater receiver with DTSx installed review. I have attached as well. Hopefully this will change with the forthcoming DTSx upgrades to include Neural. A quick quote from the article:

Quote:
I was saddened to learn that the DTS Upmixer can only upmix to DTS:X if the soundtrack is originally in at least 5.1. This means 4.0, regular matrixed surround soundtracks, music and mono recordings are out of the question. That’s a big oversight. This is not the case with the Dolby Surround Upmixer: any source can be upmixed to Dolby Atmos (with varying degrees of success.)

The irony is that when playing back Ex Machina in a regular DTS mix (not DTS:X), the Dolby Surround Upmixer worked better than the DTS Neural Upmixer. The Dolby Surround Upmixer tends to be more natural, whereas the DTS Neural Upmixer tends to be more gimmicky. The latter is a better demo if you like to show off your ceiling speakers, but to create a more natural, atmospheric sound, the Dolby Surround Upmixer wins hands-down.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf wifihifi_2015-09-30.pdf (190.0 KB, 76 views)
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post #986 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 11:14 PM
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Question... What is it doing when you turn on the "Extra Bass" feature (pg 117 of the manual). It's not clear at all.

Without "Extra Bass" my understanding is that if I set my mains as small and cross them at 60Hz, the frequencies below will be redirected to the sub(s) and frequencies above will be reproduced by the mains. What then happens if you enable "Extra Bass"?

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post #987 of 9666 Old 09-13-2015, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
Question... What is it doing when you turn on the "Extra Bass" feature (pg 117 of the manual). It's not clear at all.

Without "Extra Bass" my understanding is that if I set my mains as small and cross them at 60Hz, the frequencies below will be redirected to the sub(s) and frequencies above will be reproduced by the mains. What then happens if you enable "Extra Bass"?
http://www.audioholics.com/home-thea...ing-extra-bass

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post #988 of 9666 Old 09-14-2015, 12:00 AM
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Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question. It's clear it will send L/R bass to the sub if you set your mains as "Large" and run them full range, but I'm curious as to what it does when you set them to "Small" with a cross-over. Does "Extra Bass" do anything in this situation? If so, what exactly?

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post #989 of 9666 Old 09-14-2015, 12:19 AM
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X-over setting wrt to the mains is ignored with Extra Base enabled.

Hmmm. Just to be clear, I think there are two things that could be going on here...
1. The sub is getting all bass from the mains (both above and below the cutoff) but the mains are not reproducing bass below the cutoff... The cutoff is respected on the mains.
2. The sub is getting all bass from the mains, and the mains are also reproducing all bass (above and below the cutoff)... The cutoff is meaningless/ignored.

You seem to be suggesting #2 ... Is that right?

#1 makes the most sense, but I don't know how Yamaha thinks.

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post #990 of 9666 Old 09-14-2015, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
Hmmm. Just to be clear, I think there are two things that could be going on here...
1. The sub is getting all bass from the mains (both above and below the cutoff) but the mains are not reproducing bass below the cutoff... The cutoff is respected on the mains.
2. The sub is getting all bass from the mains, and the mains are also reproducing all bass (above and below the cutoff)... The cutoff is meaningless/ignored.

You seem to be suggesting #2 ... Is that right?

#1 makes the most sense, but I don't know how Yamaha thinks.
VR,

I deleted my post. The outtake from the Yamaha manual in the Audioholics article says that EB is not available when the Fronts are set to small. However, the 2050/3050 owner's manual does not state this for the EB option. Someone who owns a 2050 or 3050 should confirm your question.

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Link: avsforum Members Atmos & Auro Configuration Spreadsheet

I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.

Last edited by kokishin; 09-14-2015 at 12:58 AM.
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