Pioneer Elite AVR's.. SC-95, SC-97 SC-99 - Page 235 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7021 of 7077 Old 06-16-2017, 03:07 PM
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If anyone wants to help, it would be great if we knew who and where to send the court documentation for the lawsuit. Pioneer is a big company, and it is now owned by Onkyo, so we need to know where to have the papers served.

Nothing is what I want - a true Zen saying.
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post #7022 of 7077 Old 06-16-2017, 03:13 PM
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If anyone wants to help, it would be great if we knew who and where to send the court documentation for the lawsuit. Pioneer is a big company, and it is now owned by Onkyo, so we need to know where to have the papers served.
I think Pioneer has helped you in a way by providing you with an address in their response.
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post #7023 of 7077 Old 06-16-2017, 03:45 PM
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Yeah, but I think I should send the docs to the highest person available as a representative for Pioneer. I have never sued a large company, so I am not sure of the procedure.

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post #7024 of 7077 Old 06-16-2017, 04:06 PM
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YIPPEEEE!



Everything is passing through including the Sony. The picture looks outstanding. Boy, what a journey. I have to say, Epson and Pioneer treated me like royalty. Very happy.

Epson 5040ub
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post #7025 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 05:43 AM
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Boy, what a journey. I have to say, Epson and Pioneer treated me like royalty. Very happy.
Congratulations, Snoogleheimer. You deserve it after all of your problems. Our experiences with Epson match up pretty well, but our experiences with Pioneer are polar opposites. Maybe things went better for you because the Geek Squad got involved?

The latest on our (my friend and my) situation is that even the 6 foot Monoprice Certified Premium cable works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. We can often get the connection to pass through by pulling the HDMI connector out of Input 1 and then reinserting it a number of times....some of time we get lucky and the signal passes through, but it is a crapshoot at best. The only *dependable* way for things to work properly is to go back to the separation of video and audio signals - send the video directly to Input 1 of the Epson and send the audio to the Pioneer. This sucks, as there is no way to sell the Pioneer as it is, as any buyer would be PO'd (and rightfully so) if it acts the same in his setup.

And Pioneer, even after 5 weeks of going back and forth with Customer Service, NEVER gave me an RMA, though I requested it several times. They just insist on blaming the problem on something else in the system, and when we prove that that piece of gear or cable is fine, they switch the blame to another piece - a musical chairs blame game. That's why we feel that our only recourse left is to sue them. This is a far cry from Epson's EXCELLENT customer service where they just send you another unit, overnight, and then they evaluate the one that is sent back to their facility.

I have owned a lot of Pioneer gear in the past, but NEVER, NEVER again unless they step up to the plate and make this wrong right.

Nothing is what I want - a true Zen saying.
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post #7026 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 09:15 AM
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Congratulations, Snoogleheimer. You deserve it after all of your problems. Our experiences with Epson match up pretty well, but our experiences with Pioneer are polar opposites. Maybe things went better for you because the Geek Squad got involved?

The latest on our (my friend and my) situation is that even the 6 foot Monoprice Certified Premium cable works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. We can often get the connection to pass through by pulling the HDMI connector out of Input 1 and then reinserting it a number of times....some of time we get lucky and the signal passes through, but it is a crapshoot at best. The only *dependable* way for things to work properly is to go back to the separation of video and audio signals - send the video directly to Input 1 of the Epson and send the audio to the Pioneer. This sucks, as there is no way to sell the Pioneer as it is, as any buyer would be PO'd (and rightfully so) if it acts the same in his setup.

And Pioneer, even after 5 weeks of going back and forth with Customer Service, NEVER gave me an RMA, though I requested it several times. They just insist on blaming the problem on something else in the system, and when we prove that that piece of gear or cable is fine, they switch the blame to another piece - a musical chairs blame game. That's why we feel that our only recourse left is to sue them. This is a far cry from Epson's EXCELLENT customer service where they just send you another unit, overnight, and then they evaluate the one that is sent back to their facility.

I have owned a lot of Pioneer gear in the past, but NEVER, NEVER again unless they step up to the plate and make this wrong right.
Hey Bob,

I haven't read too far back in your posts but I was curious if you ever Reset the Pioneer SC95 to default then set the HDMI 4K/60P signal input setting to 4:4:4 from the default of 4:2:0 on the three 4K/60P-BD,H1,H2 HDMI inputs?
You should also turn off Video Conversion and HDMI Out 3 to off.
HDMI output parameter should be either of these: OUT1+2, OUT 1, or OUT 2.

I can get 4K/HDR with all three HDMI inputs (BD, H1, H2) from my Oppo 203, Samsung K8500, and Roku Ultra with these settings on my SC99.
My HDMI outputs are connected to a Samsung KS9000 tv and a Sony 665 Projector.
Both receive 4K/HDR but the Sony can only handle 4KHDR@24fps.

Please try Resetting the unit and adjusting the settings to what I have and try again. I'm sure we can resolve your situation.
Also please make sure that your UHD source is the last device to be powered on.
Powering on of devices should be as follows:
Display then AVR then Source Device
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Projector - Sony VPL-VW665ES
TV - Samsung UN55KS9000FXZA
UHD Player - Oppo UDP-203
AVR - Pioneer SC-99
HDMI Cables - Audio Quest Cinnamon 2, 8, and 10 meters
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post #7027 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 11:11 AM
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I haven't read too far back in your posts but I was curious if you ever Reset the Pioneer SC95 to default then set the HDMI 4K/60P signal input setting to 4:4:4 from the default of 4:2:0 on the three 4K/60P-BD,H1,H2 HDMI inputs?
Been there - done that. Place a checkmark on everything that you mentioned.

Thanks, FQs19, but I have spent more than 5 weeks and 40 hours troubleshooting this problem, and without going through the MANY procedures, tests, settings, resets, etc. all over again, I'll just cut to the bottom line. I have tested many cables and other 4k sources and displays and have found that EVERYTHING works correctly until I put the SC-95 into the chain, and even the SC-95 works perfectly at 1080p. The HDMI chip on the output stage of the SC-95 only works at 4k with a 6 foot Monoprice Premium Certified passive cable, yet other receivers I have used in its place (a bottom of the line Denon and a pretty good Marantz) work perfectly with ANY cable. Hellohowareyou, as well as Pioneer's "customer service", has literally walked me through MANY settings on the SC-95, but none of them help. Like I said in my last post, if I plug and unplug the SC-95 to Epson display connection, sooner or later it will allow the 4k signal to pass, so that alone tells me that the problem is NOT any setting or the plugging and unplugging would not have had an effect. Combine that behavior with the fact that the only cable length that works properly (between SC-95 and display) is 6 feet (15 feet exhibits annoying light/dark flashing - anything longer does not work at all), and that it only works some of the time and then you begin to understand the problem - the SC-95 has a problem in the HDMI output stage. It needs repair/replacement, as the chip is not working within specs, and the bigger problem is that Pioneer just keeps blaming other things and not accepting the fact that there is a problem that needs addressing under warranty at one of their repair facilities.

To sum up, all equipment works fine with all cables that we own (they are all rated at 18 gbs), and the problem only exists when the AVR being used is the SC-95. Other people's SC series AVRs are working, but the one we have here does not...It is that simple.

And since Pioneer has just kept giving me the runaround for 5 weeks now, I am done pursuing a remedy through customer service and have chosen to sue them in Small Claims Court. Pioneer could have had a happy customer by simply issuing an RMA and then examining the unit themselves - then they would know that the unit has a problem and hopefully are knowledgeable enough to repair it.

Thanks again for your offer to help, but you really need to read the last 10 or 12 pages of this thread to have an inkling of the things that have already been tried. It is with 100% confidence that I know that this unit has a problem that requires parts repair/replacement.

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post #7028 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 11:30 AM
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Been there - done that. Place a checkmark on everything that you mentioned.

Spoiler!
I see, well I hope the actions you've taken results in you getting a unit that works, whether it's a new Pioneer or a refund to purchase a different brand.

Projector - Sony VPL-VW665ES
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post #7029 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 03:52 PM
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Congratulations, Snoogleheimer. You deserve it after all of your problems. Our experiences with Epson match up pretty well, but our experiences with Pioneer are polar opposites. Maybe things went better for you because the Geek Squad got involved?

The latest on our (my friend and my) situation is that even the 6 foot Monoprice Certified Premium cable works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. We can often get the connection to pass through by pulling the HDMI connector out of Input 1 and then reinserting it a number of times....some of time we get lucky and the signal passes through, but it is a crapshoot at best. The only *dependable* way for things to work properly is to go back to the separation of video and audio signals - send the video directly to Input 1 of the Epson and send the audio to the Pioneer. This sucks, as there is no way to sell the Pioneer as it is, as any buyer would be PO'd (and rightfully so) if it acts the same in his setup.

And Pioneer, even after 5 weeks of going back and forth with Customer Service, NEVER gave me an RMA, though I requested it several times. They just insist on blaming the problem on something else in the system, and when we prove that that piece of gear or cable is fine, they switch the blame to another piece - a musical chairs blame game. That's why we feel that our only recourse left is to sue them. This is a far cry from Epson's EXCELLENT customer service where they just send you another unit, overnight, and then they evaluate the one that is sent back to their facility.

I have owned a lot of Pioneer gear in the past, but NEVER, NEVER again unless they step up to the plate and make this wrong right.
Sorry about your luck with your SC. Pioneer/Onkyo needs to stop messing around & replace the board like they did mine. I think you're right, I probably should give the credit to Geek Squad. Funny thing is, I've never bought a GS plan before. I must be psychic.
Are you as impressed with the 5040ub as I am? Wow! It is my first PJ and I am blown away. And I don't even have my screen installed yet. There's no going back to a teevee now. I think I'm going to have to take Tue/Wed off as well. I've got too much stuff I need to get done I can't get all done on Mon. (Screen, cable raceway, new blinds, & misc. household chores I'm behind on). I'm just glad to be back in business. That's enough bad luck to last me a decade.

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Pioneer Elite SC-99
Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 (L,R,C) / SP-EBS73 (S & RS) / SW-E10 (4)
Sony UBP-X800
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post #7030 of 7077 Old 06-17-2017, 09:35 PM
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Congratulations, Snoogleheimer. You deserve it after all of your problems. Our experiences with Epson match up pretty well, but our experiences with Pioneer are polar opposites. Maybe things went better for you because the Geek Squad got involved?

The latest on our (my friend and my) situation is that even the 6 foot Monoprice Certified Premium cable works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. We can often get the connection to pass through by pulling the HDMI connector out of Input 1 and then reinserting it a number of times....some of time we get lucky and the signal passes through, but it is a crapshoot at best. The only *dependable* way for things to work properly is to go back to the separation of video and audio signals - send the video directly to Input 1 of the Epson and send the audio to the Pioneer. This sucks, as there is no way to sell the Pioneer as it is, as any buyer would be PO'd (and rightfully so) if it acts the same in his setup.

And Pioneer, even after 5 weeks of going back and forth with Customer Service, NEVER gave me an RMA, though I requested it several times. They just insist on blaming the problem on something else in the system, and when we prove that that piece of gear or cable is fine, they switch the blame to another piece - a musical chairs blame game. That's why we feel that our only recourse left is to sue them. This is a far cry from Epson's EXCELLENT customer service where they just send you another unit, overnight, and then they evaluate the one that is sent back to their facility.

I have owned a lot of Pioneer gear in the past, but NEVER, NEVER again unless they step up to the plate and make this wrong right.
I now have tested three Sony X800 on my Pioneer SC-95. All of them work, but I found that the HDMI cable connecting the X800 must not be stressed/pulled in any particular direction. If it is stressed, it loses connection. The X800 seems a bit more finicky in the connection than others.
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post #7031 of 7077 Old 06-18-2017, 02:55 AM
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Pioneer/Onkyo needs to stop messing around & replace the board like they did mine.
Yup, that's what is needed, but they just don't want to do it for some reason. Did you get a report on what they found wrong and/or what they did to repair the unit?

I suspect that the problems we are having with Pioneer's customer service is probably due to the takeover of the company by Onkyo. A few years ago, there were at least 3 authorized Pioneer service centers within an hour's drive of my home. I used to be able to drive a unit to one of their facilities, verbally tell the guy what was wrong with the unit, and then pick it up repaired in a few days - all very friendly is easy to do. Now when I wanted to drive my unit to a facility, besides not issuing an RMA, they said that the nearest authorized facility is in Syracuse, 275 miles from my home. I tried calling the old facilities, and sure enough, they said that they no longer do any work for Pioneer. Pioneer has been dropped from the product line here at AVS as well, though I don't know their particular reasons for dropping them.
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Are you as impressed with the 5040ub as I am?
Yes, even after all of these years using projectors, I am still very impressed with the 5040. I have owned many projectors, starting with CRTs from Sony and Electrohome back in the "old days", and digital units from quite a few companies ( a couple of JVCs, Sharp, InFocus, Panasonic, Marantz, and Sim2 just to name a few of them) and the units from Epson have been my favorite. I owned the 5020 and now the 5030, but my friend's 5040 is even better - great projector!
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All of them work, but I found that the HDMI cable connecting the X800 must not be stressed/pulled in any particular direction.
Yup, same here, especially with the passive cables, which tend to be thicker and have end connectors that don't fit tightly in the SC-95. The SC-95 over here doesn't ever seem to "drop" the connection - it just never gets started. When we can get it to work, it is not because of the connection quality - it is because we are breaking the connection and forcing HDCP to negotiate over and over again until it works. Once working, moving the connector or stress points on the wire has no effect and the signal remains intact. We really went out of our way to try to prove that this was a cable and/or connector issue, but the symptoms say that it is not. The problem is the negotiation of HDCP 2.2 in the output stage of the SC-95.

Edit: Oops, I just noticed that you said that the X800 was finicky. That is not the same as our situation. Over here, the "finicky"(loose) connection is in the SC-95. Two X800s that we tried were solid as a rock when connected to ANY other gear.

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post #7032 of 7077 Old 06-18-2017, 03:07 AM
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Pioneer has been dropped from the product line here at AVS as well, though I don't know their particular reasons for dropping them.
Dropped due to Pioneer raising the minimum purchase to too high a level to make it worthwhile to continue selling the brand.
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post #7033 of 7077 Old 06-18-2017, 12:20 PM
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Ok, I've got 3 days to get everything done.


*yawn* I'm gonna be a slug for a little while.

Epson 5040ub
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post #7034 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 09:31 AM
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Well, I have some potentially good news from Pioneer...

Shawn, the head of Pioneer Customer Service, just called me on the phone and we had quite a long and pleasant chat. The guys I had been working with forwarded all of my emails to him and he reached out to let me know that Pioneer would make sure that my (our) situation got straightened out, whatever it takes. They will be sending me an empty shipping carton for the SC-95 with a prepaid shipping label for me to send my (actually my friend's unit - the sales slip has my name on it so that his wife doesn't know) unit directly to them, where they have a good deal of external gear to use in testing, to properly diagnose the problem. I feel extremely confident that they know what they are doing (or at least Shawn really knows his stuff), so I feel that we will be in good hands having the unit sent directly to them.

I think that this is great, and my plans on taking them to Small Claims Court are on hold for now. We really didn't want to go that route if we did not have to, and as of now, we don't have to.

This renews my faith in Pioneer, and right now I am much more optimistic that my (our) unit will be repaired to work correctly. I will post updates here in this thread as soon as there is something more to report.

Edit: To clear up my confusing posts, the Pioneer is officially in my name, even though my friend actually owns it. I used my credit card and he paid me back in cash so that his wife would not suspect that he bought yet another piece of audio/video gear... As a result, I use the terms "I", "he" and "we" somewhat interchangeably...

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post #7035 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 09:42 AM
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Well, I have some potentially good news from Pioneer...

Shawn, the head of Pioneer Customer Service, just called me on the phone and we had quite a long and pleasant chat. The guys I had been working with forwarded all of my emails to him and he reached out to let me know that Pioneer would make sure that my (our) situation got straightened out, whatever it takes. They will be sending me an empty shipping carton for the SC-95 with a prepaid shipping label for me to send my (actually my friend's unit - the sales slip has my name on it so that his wife doesn't know) unit directly to them, where they have a good deal of external gear to use in testing, to properly diagnose the problem. I feel extremely confident that they know what they are doing (or at least Shawn really knows his stuff), so I feel that we will be in good hands having the unit sent directly to them.

I think that this is great, and my plans on taking them to Small Claims Court are on hold for now. We really didn't want to go that route if we did not have to, and as of now, we don't have to.

This renews my faith in Pioneer, and right now I am much more optimistic that my (our) unit will be repaired to work correctly. I will post updates here in this thread as soon as there is something more to report.
Great to know Bob. I believe I spoke to Shawn over the phone in the past, after communicating with the preliminary agents over the email before they got escalated to him. It was about your problem as if it was my situation and he suggested to look into it from his arsenal of many 4K devices. He also asked whether it would be possible to send my X800 as well, so they could see the potential HDCP conflict in action. So, if it is possible, ask Shawn if you could send in your X800 as well, just in case they don't have it. During my conversation with Shawn, I was told they didn't have the Sony x-800 with them.
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post #7036 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 10:24 AM
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It was about your problem as if it was my situation...
You did that for me?! Wow, you really do go the extra mile to help people, even difficult people like me. Thanks!
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During my conversation with Shawn, I was told they didn't have the Sony x-800 with them.
They have one now...
But if things work with their X800, then Shawn said they would request my particular unit to be sent in. He was committed to making sure that this problem gets solved...whatever it takes. Despite the fact that he probably deals with stuff like this every day, he maintains a great attitude towards his work and his customers.
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post #7037 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 10:58 AM
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mine has a single hole for the SC-95. I think the SC-99 has a nicer mic and has multiple holes
Hi Brian and SC-95 owners,
Would you please confirm if the mic I got is the same as yours? Thanks!
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post #7038 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 12:02 PM
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Awesome Bob, I knew they would. It is in their best interest. I just think the difference was, when BB learned I was on the GS plan, they hopped on it, chop chop. "Oh crap, he bought the GS plan" I got to jump to the front of the line. lol I truly doubt they will waste time testing. They should just replace the board. I've been enjoying my SC-99/5040ub so much, I haven't got much done at all. lol And I've got a mountain of stuff to get done. (The GD screen is still in the GD box over there, leaning against the wall. Ok, time to get started, good thing I took Tues./Weds. off.


p.s. I think I'm going to buy the Harmony Elite.

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post #7039 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 12:52 PM
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You did that for me?! Wow, you really do go the extra mile to help people, even difficult people like me. Thanks!
You may have no idea I had multiple days of conversations with PIONEER support in a bid to answer the questions you posed. At last I decided to get myself a X-800 to get to the bottom of your problems. I may have just become a reluctant owner of X-800 simply because you and snoogie had problems with this device.
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post #7040 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 01:15 PM
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Hi Brian and SC-95 owners,
Would you please confirm if the mic I got is the same as yours? Thanks!
This is the same as I have.

"These go to eleven."
Great words from Nigel Tufnel.

Gear:
Sony KDL55W800C, LG BD570, Pioneer SC-95, FL/FR - DefTech SM65, C- DefTech PC2000,
FLH/FRH - DefTech PM1000, SL/SR - DefTech SR8040BP, Sub - DefTech Supercube 2000
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post #7041 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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Thanks!
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post #7042 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 04:25 PM
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Hi Brian and SC-95 owners,
Would you please confirm if the mic I got is the same as yours? Thanks!
I have an SC-95. Looks exactly the same.

4K Setup: LG OLED55E6P, Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer SC-95 7.1.4 Atmos, Hsu HB-1, HC-1 speakers, Elac A-4 Dolby enabled speakers, Hsu VTF-2 and VTF-3 subs, Roku Ultra, Dish Network Joey, Monoprice certified HDMI cables
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post #7043 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 04:31 PM
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Hi Brian and SC-95 owners,
Would you please confirm if the mic I got is the same as yours? Thanks!
Yeah same here, although for all my MCACC, I have been using an older Elite microphone so far.

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post #7044 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 04:48 PM
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Hello I´m thinking about buying an used receiver without mic, could you please tell me what´s the reference of this Mic

Thanks
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post #7045 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 05:13 PM
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Thanks all for the confirmation!
FYI, Pioneer did say that if I need a replacement mic, I can buy the VSX-831 mic via HTTPS://shop.pioneerhomeusa.com/findparts.cfm.
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post #7046 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 05:44 PM
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You did that for me?! Wow, you really do go the extra mile to help people, even difficult people like me. Thanks!
They have one now...
But if things work with their X800, then Shawn said they would request my particular unit to be sent in. He was committed to making sure that this problem gets solved...whatever it takes. Despite the fact that he probably deals with stuff like this every day, he maintains a great attitude towards his work and his customers.
Do you know how I can get a hold of this Shawn? When disconnecting my SC-95 to send in to check the issues I noticed a hairline fracture in the HDMI ARC port. I just bought this a year ago on Amazon and thought I had a 2 year PARTS and labor warranty.

When I explained the situation to the rep I had been dealing with he turned from friendly and pleasant to abruptly telling me I damaged it and I'm out of luck!

I sent a couple follow up emails trying to explain that all I've ever done is plug and unplug the cable and he is now ignoring me!

If plugging and unplugging HDMI cables into a port is causing damage then they must use the weakest metals known to man. I treated this thing like GOLD and have always been careful when handling.

Plenty of friends and family ask me what to buy when it's time for a/v equipment and I plan on telling them to STAY AWAY from anything Onkyo or Pioneer.
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post #7047 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 05:56 PM
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Do you know how I can get a hold of this Shawn? When disconnecting my SC-95 to send in to check the issues I noticed a hairline fracture in the HDMI ARC port. I just bought this a year ago on Amazon and thought I had a 2 year PARTS and labor warranty.

When I explained the situation to the rep I had been dealing with he turned from friendly and pleasant to abruptly telling me I damaged it and I'm out of luck!

I sent a couple follow up emails trying to explain that all I've ever done is plug and unplug the cable and he is now ignoring me!

If plugging and unplugging HDMI cables into a port is causing damage then they must use the weakest metals known to man. I treated this thing like GOLD and have always been careful when handling.

Plenty of friends and family ask me what to buy when it's time for a/v equipment and I plan on telling them to STAY AWAY from anything Onkyo or Pioneer.
I received a call from an unknown number when I spoke, not sure about Bob. However, I did converse with Pioneer Tech support over email first, that got escalated to Shawn in "Engineering??"

One of the problems with Amazon is, warranties used to be generally void because the Elite was supposed to be sold through retail channel only, online selling wasn't permitted. I could be wrong though.
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post #7048 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hellohowareyou View Post
I received a call from an unknown number when I spoke, not sure about Bob. However, I did converse with Pioneer Tech support over email first, that got escalated to Shawn in "Engineering??"

One of the problems with Amazon is, warranties used to be generally void because the Elite was supposed to be sold through retail channel only, online selling wasn't permitted. I could be wrong though.
It was bought from Electronics Expo via Amazon but I believe both are authorized sellers. Really frustrating for the rep to immediately turn his back on me and then ignore me to boot. Especially when you take into account the couple thousand I've spent on Onkyo and Pioneer equipment in the past.
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post #7049 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 06:35 PM
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Do you know how I can get a hold of this Shawn?
No, unfortunately I don't have his number. He called my land line and that line doesn't have any features - just a plain old land line, so I don't even have caller ID. Like I said in an earlier post, I am an old fart who dislikes portable devices like phones, tablets, etc., so I don't own any.

Nothing is what I want - a true Zen saying.
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post #7050 of 7077 Old 06-19-2017, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by juanchibiris View Post
Hello I´m thinking about buying an used receiver without mic, could you please tell me what´s the reference of this Mic

Thanks
Forgot to add, the receiver I will buy is the SC-95

Thanks
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