Beyond 7.1.4... Multi-AVR set-up for Immersive Audio - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Beyond 7.1.4... Multi-AVR set-up for Immersive Audio

So this is a very interesting topic and more people might be considering the move to 7.1.6, 9.1.6 or beyond without making the investment that is required for a single processor solution (Trinnov / Datasat).

It feels to me like this is significant enough to justify a dedicated thread so that all the information can be easily found versus reading through the huge Atmos thread.

Hopefully those that have already ventured down this path will join in and share their experience (Nalleh, Scott S.)




I am considering the move to 7.2.6 + if the TM addition is worthwhile (vs TF + TR).


The main HT AVR is the Denon x5200 (+ 5 channel B&K amp).



I also have the Denon x4100 an HDMI failed Denon 4311ci and a Denon 1712 (+ an Audiosource Amp 100).


TIA,
Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW

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post #2 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 04:58 AM
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Please see my signature for wiring schematic for the x.x.6 setup that is based on Scott's idea.

My external AVRs are very basic (Denon 1603 and Denon 1803). They do not have any room EQ.
So here's what I have done for level matching the heights

1. Using internal test tones of the AVR, set the LCR levels to 75db.
2. Add of 3 dB to the center. This is to compensate as the extracted center will be bit weaker than the main (height) speakers.
3. Now run Audyssey from main AVR and leaving external AVRs in PL-II mode. Make sure to set the MV on external AVRs to 0.
4. You will see that Audyssey sets fairly long distances (about 22 feet vs actually 6-7 feet) to factor in the delay.
5. Don't alter the distances what Audyssey sets.
6. If you have access to 9.1.6 test tones, when the tones reach the TM, it sounds exactly +3db of other speakers. (e.g. at MV=0 all speakers will be at 85dB while the TM will be 88dB)
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post #3 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Please see my signature for wiring schematic for the x.x.6 setup that is based on Scott's idea.

My external AVRs are very basic (Denon 1603 and Denon 1803). They do not have any room EQ.
So here's what I have done for level matching the heights

1. Using internal test tones of the AVR, set the LCR levels to 75db.
2. Add of 3 dB to the center. This is to compensate as the extracted center will be bit weaker than the main (height) speakers.
3. Now run Audyssey from main AVR and leaving external AVRs in PL-II mode. Make sure to set the MV on external AVRs to 0.
4. You will see that Audyssey sets fairly long distances (about 22 feet vs actually 6-7 feet) to factor in the delay.
5. Don't alter the distances what Audyssey sets.
6. If you have access to 9.1.6 test tones, when the tones reach the TM, it sounds exactly +3db of other speakers. (e.g. at MV=0 all speakers will be at 85dB while the TM will be 88dB)
Ok, I looked at the wiring diagram but think I'm missing something. I get this is a way to power additional speakers with what you have, but it really isn't the same thing as having an amp that can do .4 or more. I thought the idea behind the new object based formats was to be able to target specific speakers. Using this method, isn't it just taking a specific channel and then sending it to multiple speakers? I don't see how the multi AVRs can process the speaker output in order to then send the signals to the right speaker. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a viable bandaid until the industry AVRs move past their 5.1 standards.
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post #4 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 05:32 AM
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This thread could be fun....

Mad Scientist Lab Coats not included....



(You guys really don't want me to have any kind of savings or extra cash at all, do you)

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
My Build Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html
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post #5 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 07:02 AM
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Good, idea. I het asked so much about mine, i had to make a precopied post, lool.

So here is my version:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Well, screw DTS:X. Got tired of waiting, so i tried something else.
Frustrated about the 7.1.4 limit of speaker in Atmos?
Don't want the hassle of 8min config loads to get both Atmos/Auro full setups?
Can't afford the overly expensive Trinnov or Datasat?

Well, i found a way to get 9.1.6 native Atmos and 12.1 Auro 3D with 1 setup!

How?
Well, as you know, i have my Denon 5200, connected to 14 speakers, and it is setup with full 10.1 Auro:
5.1+FH+SH+TS(VOG).
Press the movie remote button and the 9.1.2 Atmos is selected:
5.1+FW+SB+FH.
Ok, since i got over a grand for my old Onkyo 3010 receiver, i used the money to buy a second Denon, this time the little brother: 4100.
So, connected some of the 5200's speakers and some new to get it calibrated, this has amp assign as follows:

Amp Assign: 9.1
Height Speakers: 4 height speakers
Height Layout: Top Middle+Rear Height
Pre-out: Front and rear height

The two receivers are connected using a HDMI from the Zone2 HDMI out from the 5200, that send full image and sound, by the way, to one of the HDMI input on the 4100.

I do not have fronts connected to the 4100, but the 4 ceiling seakers make the new native Atmos setup a full 9.1.6 :
5.1+FW+SB+FH(as before from the 5200) +TM+RH(from the 4100).



The 5200:



The 4100:



Movie button again switch to the full 10.1 Auro setup from the 5200 and with a dual source speaker switch for the Surround backs between 5200/4100 , and i gain the SB from the 4100 on the Auro setup= 12.1.

But wait, there's more. The following are connected to the 4100, eq'd and separatly calibrated from the 5200' speakers.
Side Surround B. Since the 4100 have empty surround speaker post, why not use them with a second set surround speakers placed at ca 80 degrees(surround A at 110 degrees).
Center Height. Same here, empty center speakers posts, so connected another center speaker high on the front wall.

And remember the pesky use of sub pre-out 2 for the Top Surround in Auro 10.1 setup?
Well, the 4100 has 2 brand new seperatly calibrated sub pre-outs available!

Actually, with a second dual source speaker switch, i can use the Atmos RH as SBH in Auro, since the SBH is ganged in SH anyway in Auro 15.1 setup.

So, one could say the following:

Atmos: 5.1+SB+S2+FW+FH+TM+RH+CH=11.1.7

Auro 3D:
5.1+SB+S2+FH+SH+SBH+TS+CH= 17.1

It works!! The lip sync is spot on, and espesially the 6 ceiling speakers really woke up the "spaceious" feeling, and i believe the 4100 will be staying

A couple of glitches though, but nothing major, ex. two volum buttons etc. but i can live with them.
And some pics:










It has been updated since this, but the basic function is the same.

Triple Atmos Receivers
Atmos 13.1.8/DTS:X 9.1.8/AURO 3D 12.1

My setup:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wha...l#post41323201
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post #6 of 1099 Old 02-06-2016, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post
think I'm missing something.
Yes you are. The thread title itself is much clear. It's beyond x.x.4. So you need to have the capability of x.x.4 to begin with to achieve the expansions.

Quote:
I don't see how the multi AVRs can process the speaker output in order to then send the signals to the right speaker.
AVR will send it to a speaker that thinks it is right. It's your physical arrangement that changes the outcome.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I think this is a viable bandaid until the industry AVRs move past their 5.1 standards.
[/QUOTE]

Industry has already moved past 5.1 long long time ago. It has now moved out of bed channels to a total immersion using objects.
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post #7 of 1099 Old 02-07-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Yes you are. The thread title itself is much clear. It's beyond x.x.4. So you need to have the capability of x.x.4 to begin with to achieve the expansions.



AVR will send it to a speaker that thinks it is right. It's your physical arrangement that changes the outcome.

Industry has already moved past 5.1 long long time ago. It has now moved out of bed channels to a total immersion using objects.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I read your reply and went back and looked at the diagram again. This time I noticed how the use of preouts to the other avrs could use the 2nd and 3rd amps to drive the speakers.

The part I don't get is how the bitstream from AVR1 can send the discrete signals to the other AVRs.

For example, if you're using a Height or Atmos preout to AVR 2 or 3 and using the LCRs for say TF, TM, TB. how do the AVRs 2 or three know how to drive the channels correctly. They're not receiving the bitstream from AVR1 with all the channels via a single preout, are they?

Also, I assume you're using a smart remote to control the volume of all three AVRs?

Brad
AVR Anthen AVM 60 Amp Emotiva XPA-7 & XPA-5 Sources Oppo 203, FireTV, FiOS
Speakers Atmos 7.2.4 - TruAudio B23-465s (LCRs), TruAudio B23-265s (SL/R & SB), Dual SVS PC-2000s (Subs), 4 In Ceilings
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post #8 of 1099 Old 02-07-2016, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post
Ok, I read your reply and went back and looked at the diagram again. This time I noticed how the use of preouts to the other avrs could use the 2nd and 3rd amps to drive the speakers.

The part I don't get is how the bitstream from AVR1 can send the discrete signals to the other AVRs.

For example, if you're using a Height or Atmos preout to AVR 2 or 3 and using the LCRs for say TF, TM, TB. how do the AVRs 2 or three know how to drive the channels correctly. They're not receiving the bitstream from AVR1 with all the channels via a single preout, are they?

Also, I assume you're using a smart remote to control the volume of all three AVRs?
It's the PL-II in play, where using a stereo input the LCR output gets generated.
In this case the stereo input is from one side of the height pair that is extracting the corresponding middle (center). You do this with 2 sides aka 2 stereo inputs to extract the extra pair.

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post #9 of 1099 Old 02-07-2016, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Or in the case of dual Atmos AVR's...

HDMI Zone2 output is 'daisy chained' to the second AVR since it carries the same full audio signal that the first AVR receives.

Then it's just a matter of logically dividing up the speakers depending upon what each AVR is capable of.

If different AVR's are used the better amp section of the two should drive LCR (unless external amplification is in use).

This also means running two independent room calibrations (one per AVR) and then checking levels across all speakers to make sure it's balanced.

If the same brand of AVR's are used the volume should work in tandem with a single remote providing the AVR's share the same volume presets ( 0 db @ power on ).

- Jason
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HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW
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post #10 of 1099 Old 02-07-2016, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Or in the case of dual Atmos AVR's...

HDMI Zone2 output is 'daisy chained' to the second AVR since it carries the same full audio signal that the first AVR receives.

Then it's just a matter of logically dividing up the speakers depending upon what each AVR is capable of.

If different AVR's are used the better amp section of the two should drive LCR (unless external amplification is in use).

This also means running two independent room calibrations (one per AVR) and then checking levels across all speakers to make sure it's balanced.

If the same brand of AVR's are used the volume should work in tandem with a single remote providing the AVR's share the same volume presets ( 0 db @ power on ).

- Jason
Ok, so using this theory...

I could take my Pioneer SC-85 which supports either 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 and add a 2nd AVR that supports x.x.4 then by configuring my SC-85 to use 7.2.2 and a 2nd Zone, I would use the x.x.4 on the 2nd AVR to achieve 7.2.4 using the same bitstream.

Brad
AVR Anthen AVM 60 Amp Emotiva XPA-7 & XPA-5 Sources Oppo 203, FireTV, FiOS
Speakers Atmos 7.2.4 - TruAudio B23-465s (LCRs), TruAudio B23-265s (SL/R & SB), Dual SVS PC-2000s (Subs), 4 In Ceilings
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post #11 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 01:38 AM
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Has anyone tried the Atmos 9.1.6 test tones from the September Demo with any of these setups? Would be interesting to hear the result.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room

Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Pioneer KRP-600a, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
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post #12 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Or in the case of dual Atmos AVR's...

HDMI Zone2 output is 'daisy chained' to the second AVR since it carries the same full audio signal that the first AVR receives.

Then it's just a matter of logically dividing up the speakers depending upon what each AVR is capable of.

If different AVR's are used the better amp section of the two should drive LCR (unless external amplification is in use).

This also means running two independent room calibrations (one per AVR) and then checking levels across all speakers to make sure it's balanced.

If the same brand of AVR's are used the volume should work in tandem with a single remote providing the AVR's share the same volume presets ( 0 db @ power on ).

- Jason

I get what you're trying to do here (in theory), but unless my understanding of Atmos is flawed, daisy-chaining receivers is not going to work in the expected manner.

Because the second AVR can't "remove" the extended channel information that the first AVR is processing, it's going to duplicate the information it the extended channels that it's taking care of.

For example, talking height channels only:

AVR1 is taking care of TBR/TBL, and you want AVR2 to take care of TMR/TML + TFR/TFL. When AVR2 is rendering the effects for TMR/TML + TFR/TFL, it's going to include stuff (as opposed to exclude) effects that AVR1 is already collapsing into TBR/TBL, because it doesn't know that AVR is in the chain already rendering the TBR/TBL channels.

Unless I'm missing something???
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post #13 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 10:19 AM
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I want to support this thread, but I don't have time to write up a long post about what I've done in my theater. Here's a post I wrote in the Atmos thread last year:

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I am now up and running with a 7.1.7 Atmos configuration utilizing two AVRs: a Denon X5200W and an older ProLogic II receiver (Marantz SR4400) that I picked up off Craig's List for a song.

I have 15 speakers installed. (Yes, I realize that 7+7=14. Bear with me.)



That's 7.1 speakers on the ground, 2 Front Heights, 2 Top Middles, 2 Top Rears, and 2 speakers installed directly over my seats that are ganged together into a Voice-of-God array.



The Denon X5200W drives the 7.1 on the ground and the 2 Front Heights. The stereo pre-outs for the Top Middle channels are then fed into the Marantz receiver, which uses ProLogic II to matrix a center Voice-of-God between them and 2 surround channels for the Top Rears.



This differs from Scott's configuration in that it only requires two AVRs (not three) and yet yields an extra channel for the V-o-G.

If Scott's system has been called SCatmos, I hereby call mine Zatmos!
Here's an article I wrote about it with additional details and photos:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/cu...more-speakers/

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Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

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post #14 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 01:41 PM
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Thanks for starting the thread.

Sorry if I have missed it. How are you guys that are using 2 AVR's controlling volume since that is the only parameter on the second AVR that you would want to change?
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post #15 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post
Ok, so using this theory...

I could take my Pioneer SC-85 which supports either 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 and add a 2nd AVR that supports x.x.4 then by configuring my SC-85 to use 7.2.2 and a 2nd Zone, I would use the x.x.4 on the 2nd AVR to achieve 7.2.4 using the same bitstream.
In theory... I am right there with you however as I have not done this as of yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
I get what you're trying to do here (in theory), but unless my understanding of Atmos is flawed, daisy-chaining receivers is not going to work in the expected manner.

Because the second AVR can't "remove" the extended channel information that the first AVR is processing, it's going to duplicate the information it the extended channels that it's taking care of.

For example, talking height channels only:

AVR1 is taking care of TBR/TBL, and you want AVR2 to take care of TMR/TML + TFR/TFL. When AVR2 is rendering the effects for TMR/TML + TFR/TFL, it's going to include stuff (as opposed to exclude) effects that AVR1 is already collapsing into TBR/TBL, because it doesn't know that AVR is in the chain already rendering the TBR/TBL channels.

Unless I'm missing something???
Very good points and sounds logical to me.
I have not done this set-up yet, I am still in the research phase which is why I started the thread (so we could have thread dedicated to this topic).

I think there are AVS'ers that have done this so I'll leave the functionality comments to them.

It is certainly possible that the PLII extraction method is the best option for a cost effective solution beyond 7.1.4.





Thanks for the contributions,
- Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW
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post #16 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Has anyone tried the Atmos 9.1.6 test tones from the September Demo with any of these setups? Would be interesting to hear the result.
Yes. What exactly are you looking for?
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post #17 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post
Ok, so using this theory...

I could take my Pioneer SC-85 which supports either 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 and add a 2nd AVR that supports x.x.4 then by configuring my SC-85 to use 7.2.2 and a 2nd Zone, I would use the x.x.4 on the 2nd AVR to achieve 7.2.4 using the same bitstream.
In theory, yes. However i would advise to get the 7.1.4 capable AVR in the first place. Much less hasle. If you want to go beyond that, then these methods come into play.
Besides, the whole Zone2 HDMI OUT trick is depentent on your AVR sending a untouched, unprocessed signal out.
Denon does that, but others may just send stereo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Has anyone tried the Atmos 9.1.6 test tones from the September Demo with any of these setups? Would be interesting to hear the result.
I would love to, but those demo discs are to expensive on Ebay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
I get what you're trying to do here (in theory), but unless my understanding of Atmos is flawed, daisy-chaining receivers is not going to work in the expected manner.

Because the second AVR can't "remove" the extended channel information that the first AVR is processing, it's going to duplicate the information it the extended channels that it's taking care of.

For example, talking height channels only:

AVR1 is taking care of TBR/TBL, and you want AVR2 to take care of TMR/TML + TFR/TFL. When AVR2 is rendering the effects for TMR/TML + TFR/TFL, it's going to include stuff (as opposed to exclude) effects that AVR1 is already collapsing into TBR/TBL, because it doesn't know that AVR is in the chain already rendering the TBR/TBL channels.

Unless I'm missing something???
You are correct, the two AVR's do not know of each other, but in my exerience it still works pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
Thanks for starting the thread.

Sorry if I have missed it. How are you guys that are using 2 AVR's controlling volume since that is the only parameter on the second AVR that you would want to change?
Well, not the only parameter, but in my case, the 7200 has several remote ID's to choose from, so by switching to ID2, they don't cross.

Or you could tape over one AVRS's remote sensor, and control it by phone app.
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Triple Atmos Receivers
Atmos 13.1.8/DTS:X 9.1.8/AURO 3D 12.1

My setup:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wha...l#post41323201
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post #18 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Some fantastic feedback guys, much appreciated!


I'm torn on which method to try first.


- Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW
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post #19 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Yeah 2 additional AVRs can get you .6 or .8! 4 additional AVRs can get you 9.x.8!

Expanding via PLII for .6 or wides is pretty straight forward and @Scott Simonian has a great diagram to show proper hookup.

You can also go .8 from .4 using PLIIx in an advanced setup. You would need 2X 7.1 AVRs that have a 5.1 analog input for multi-channel. (Call these Matrix AVRs)

Setup using PLIIx:
Results will be a smooth pan over all 4 sets speakers from Back to Front or Front to Back. Can test using the Audiosphere Atmos Demo.

TFL (Top Front Left) Pre out of Atmos AVR to the Surround Left input of Matrix AVR1
TRL (Top Rear Left) Pre out of Atmos AVR to the Surround Right of Matrix AVR1.

Matrix AVR 1 Outputs:
Left Surround=FHL
Left Rear Surround=TFL
Right Surround=TRL
Right Rear Surround=RHL

Repeat steps for Right Side

TFR (Top Front Right) Pre out of Atmos AVR to the Surround Left input of Matrix AVR2
TRR (Top Rear Right) Pre out of Atmos AVR to the Surround Right of Matrix AVR2.

Matrix AVR 2 Outputs:
Left Surround=FHR
Left Rear Surround=TFR
Right Surround=TRR
Right Rear Surround=RHR

Calibrate only using the TF+TR into the side surround or left/right inputs first. Then rewire like above and use PLIIx.

I tested this, after another member "theorized" it and it actually works!
But I believe there are limited number of AVRs that do 5.1 to 7.1.
May be if anyone knows the exact make and model that do it would be helpful for someone who wants to get .8 out of .4
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post #20 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Theory... Idea... any thoughts?


2 of these PLII decoders to add TM using Scott's dual PLII AVR 7.1.6 method (providing one has external amplification)....


or would a device like this simply not encode 2 channel to PL?
* It states that the 2 channel is converted to 5.1... so the plot thickens.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-5-1-Cha...3D281532563178


I figure using the 2 channel AUX (blue) input and then output to external amp via the FL, FR, CEN





- Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW

Last edited by DaGamePimp; 02-08-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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post #21 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
We need something that you insert 2 analog signals into...
That's what the Aux input on the device is for.

Sanjay
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post #22 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Hell, probably none new! Should be plenty of used AVRs out there. Can be 7.1 multi input as well but minimum 5.1. Shouldn't pay more than $250 per. Even at $500 that is a small price to pay to go from .4 to .8! Even at $1000 to go from 7.1.4 to 9.1.8 is crazy cheap when you really put it into perspective. These methods will expand your coverage and that is what Atmos is all about!

My old AVR Pioneer VSX-815-K (currently serving as .4 Amp via 5.1 input) was the test dummy for this experiment.

Maybe we can start a list?
Pioneer VSX-815-K
Yamaha RX-V667
Marantz SR5005
Marantz SR5004
Denon AVR-2310

Now it would be super cool if we could find the ultimate "Slim","Transparent","Low Power Consumption","Basic" 5.1 AVR that is super cheap for PLII Center Extraction Duties!
6 of those and you have:
11.x.6! Stick a fork in it!
Thanks. This is helpful.
And that 11.x.6 is making me dizzy thinking about the whole wiring and explain to someone when he/she asks..
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post #23 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
That's what the Aux input on the device is for.
Bingo!


But will it work, tempted to order 2.


* We can use 6 channels of amplification from a single AVR, I have a 4311ci sitting here with 7.1 inputs just staring at me daring me to do it.


- Jason
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HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW

Last edited by DaGamePimp; 02-08-2016 at 05:08 PM.
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post #24 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
My old AVR Pioneer VSX-815-K (currently serving as .4 Amp via 5.1 input) was the test dummy for this experiment.

Maybe we can start a list?
Pioneer VSX-815-K
Yamaha RX-V667
Marantz SR5005
Marantz SR5004
Denon AVR-2310
How does one know (looking at the manual of the AVR) that it supports this EXT.IN 5.1 to 7.1 function.
Is that through the table they show (Surround modes and parameters).
E.g I looked at Denon 2310 manual and the row for EXT.IN in this table looks exactly like what is shown for Denon 1909 (that I have and can use).
But I am not sure if Denon 1909 can also be considered in this category.
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post #25 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
That's what the Aux input on the device is for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Bingo!


But will it work, tempted to order 2.


* We can use 6 channels of amplification from a single AVR, I have a 4311ci sitting here with 7.1 inputs just staring at me daring me to do it.


- Jason
Me 2! If this works then Houston we have take off!

All we would need is 1 AVR with 7.1 multi-channel analog input (or 6 channel Amp) and 2 of those cool ass little boxes! This is a great find if it works!

Hell I am going to order 2 before they are all gone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
How does one know (looking at the manual of the AVR) that it supports this EXT.IN 5.1 to 7.1 function.
Is that through the table they show (Surround modes and parameters).
E.g I looked at Denon 2310 manual and the row for EXT.IN in this table looks exactly like what is shown for Denon 1909 (that I have and can use).
But I am not sure if Denon 1909 can also be considered in this category.
As long as it has PLIIx then it does. That is the point of PLIIx. It expands a 5.1 signal to 7.1 by splitting the surround channel into 2 discrete side and rear channels. But if the above works then it us going to be stupid cheap and easy to add TM and FW.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2 Bed), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4 Monitor Series II, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1-Klipsch RW12D, Sub 2-MTX SW2
Projector-Optoma HD33 DLP 3D, Screen-Da-Lite 100" Model B, TV-Insignia 65" LCD 1080p (NS-65D550NA15)
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post #26 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Bingo!

But will it work, tempted to order 2.

* We can use 6 channels of amplification from a single AVR, I have a 4311ci sitting here with 7.1 inputs just staring at me daring me to do it.

- Jason
Great idea! That should work
And as you said, you just need one AVR with multi ch input

Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
As long as it has PLIIx then it does. That is the point of PLIIx. It expands a 5.1 signal to 7.1 by splitting the surround channel into 2 discrete side and rear channels.
Even on the multi ch input? I thought you could not choose PLIIx on that input, as it bypasses all processing?

Triple Atmos Receivers
Atmos 13.1.8/DTS:X 9.1.8/AURO 3D 12.1

My setup:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wha...l#post41323201
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post #27 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 08:39 PM
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@ Josh Z


The Denon X5200W drives the 7.1 on the ground and the 2 Front Heights. The stereo pre-outs for the Top Middle channels are then fed into the Marantz receiver, which uses ProLogic II to matrix a center Voice-of-God between them and 2 surround channels for the top rears

that is the x5200 OSD configured for FH's and TM's

for me AFAIK, in both ATMOS and DSU playback, the same info is sent to either the FH's or TF's, so use the OSD to pick FH's and then run the wires to your (my) TF's


TY

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #28 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 09:08 PM
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if the second AVR is a denon x4000, in PLIIz , from a 2 channel input, i.e. the TM signal , it can also generate a FH signal, which you actually wire to the FH's, so there's 7.1 plus actual FH's .
The x5200 FH's are actually the same as TF's insofar as signal input is concerned. even if labeled FH's in the OSD

So the pre=out TM goes to the Marantz which means the x5200 is not driving the TM speakers.

so clarify if you would,
Which outputs on the marantz are driving the TM speakers.
and which outputs are driving the TR's?

TY

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
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post #29 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Even on the multi ch input? I thought you could not choose PLIIx on that input, as it bypasses all processing?
I just spent an hr going through the manuals of the AVRs I listed...

WTF is going on here! How did I even end up with the AVR that I had for years?

It is a fake 7.1 that can only decode 5.1 signals! Only DTS and DD but has 7.1 output! Really doesn't make sense.

I remember shopping all over the place for it because my DVD player at the time, only had 5.1 analog out and no digital output.

Damn thing don't even extract audio out HDMI and can only pass through.

Why oh Why was this thing ever made? Either way, it does, for some reason unexplained, output to the rear surround when the 5.1 input is selected. As I am learning, this is not a common thing. Actually, so far, I haven't seen any other AVR that works this way.

I am going to have to say scratch .8 from .4. Although possible and tested in theory, it's impracticable to suggest as to the lack of hardware that is easily accessible to the masses.

Thanks for helping me realize the flaw in the plan.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2 Bed), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4 Monitor Series II, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1-Klipsch RW12D, Sub 2-MTX SW2
Projector-Optoma HD33 DLP 3D, Screen-Da-Lite 100" Model B, TV-Insignia 65" LCD 1080p (NS-65D550NA15)
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post #30 of 1099 Old 02-08-2016, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a Canadian seller for the above mentioned PL decoder box if anyone is interested, more $ but not nearly the wait and solid feedback (+ 30 day returns).


http://www.ebay.com/itm/191747066493...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT






And here is an even better option (found by rontalley)... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3P88OJID7Y1RW


- Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW

Last edited by DaGamePimp; 02-09-2016 at 01:53 PM.
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