minidsp 2x4 HD . Holy **** look at the specs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 20Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2016, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
minidsp 2x4 HD . Holy **** look at the specs

Has anyone seen this box? I looked for posts on it but didn't see any.


this thing is ridiculous for the price.


Introducing the long-awaited “reboot” of miniDSP’s best-selling 2x4 digital audio processor: the miniDSP 2x4 HD! This tiny powerhouse is jam-packed with miniDSP’s tried and proven audio processing functionality: flexible para-metric EQ, Butterworth and Linkwitz-Riley crossovers, advanced biquad pro-gramming, and delay on each output channel. miniDSP’s “one hardware many plugins” concept allows for many interesting future applications!

it has 10 PEQ per channel
speaker /subwoofer crossovers
delay to 80ms
soft limit compressor


and best of all... wait for it...
2048 FIR taps per channel!!!


IT NOW HAS time based correction and convolution.


I think this thing will be huge


here is the link
https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...minidsp-2x4-hd
Sam S and stef2 like this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.

Last edited by 1201; 03-21-2016 at 07:19 AM.
1201 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-21-2016, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
btw, if anyone is wondering why all the fuss about time based correction (what dirac live and trinnov do)


please download the dirac live demo and check it out. it will be worth your time.


in my room it was a night and day difference.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sam S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Interesting. So this particular unit is more for subs, vs. a full 7.1.x system?

The price is RIGHT

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
please download the dirac live demo and check it out. it will be worth your time.
Can you provide a link? What kind of demo is this, a youtube type demonstration??
Sam S is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Interesting. So this particular unit is more for subs, vs. a full 7.1.x system?

The price is RIGHT



Can you provide a link? What kind of demo is this, a youtube type demonstration??
at a current price of 205 per unit, and given that it can go between the preamp and poweramps, I could see them being used for many many channels.


I think the work well also for folks who need more than stereo but less than 7.1 channels.


I am currently 2.1 so I ordered two units.


the demo is actually a dirac live plug that you use on your computer that routes all your pc audio through dirac live after its made measurements and corrections. ill try to find the link and post it

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,735
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3660 Post(s)
Liked: 2427
Subscribed! I want to know more.
Alan P is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post


Can you provide a link? What kind of demo is this, a youtube type demonstration??

here is the free trial version od dirac live. check it out. the improvement that time based correction made in my room was not subtle
http://www.dirac.com/online-store/

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 05:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 2,095
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 297
my 2 x 4 hd unit is scheduled to arrive tomorrow

for only $200 or so this sounds fantastic.
I'll spend plenty of time making mistakes

but for the EQ initially of 4 subs, SUBMAXIMUS, the 2 LOWAREHORNS and the dual VBBS unit,

could be a real winner,

just set the inukes all to by pass . . .
then eventually let XT32 and Sub EQ meld them as one, ref: @Austin Jerry
noshank and Madmax67 like this.

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
DUAL LOWARHORNS , SUBMAXIMUS, Custom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
asarose247 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
 
neo_2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
and best of all... wait for it...
2048 FIR taps per channel!!!


IT NOW HAS time based correction and convolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
btw, if anyone is wondering why all the fuss about time based correction (what dirac live and trinnov do)
Can you please explain how will miniDSP 2x4 HD handle time based correction?

Will it be use with dirac, or as an alternative to dirac?
neo_2009 is online now  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
Can you please explain how will miniDSP 2x4 HD handle time based correction?

Will it be use with dirac, or as an alternative to dirac?
*minidsp has their dirac live correction, which is minidsp's proprietary time based/ magnitude based system. ie, it uses FIR and IIR filters to correct the response. you also have to have a umik to use it.

*minidsp ALSO has the boxes like the minidsp 2x4,or the nanoavr units, which have magnitude based correction, aka traditional parametric EQ.

*they also have the opendrc boxes, which allow you to do FIR( time based ) correction. you have to measure the response using something like rew, use a convolver software like payware acourate, or freeware rephase, drc, or brutefir to generate the filters, and finally load them to the opendrc box

* now,they have the minidsp 2x4 HD, which offers both time and magnitude based correction. to use the time based correction, you will use REW to measure the impulse, then use the convolver software of your choice to create the filters, then load those filters to the box. voila . a poor man's dirac.

except, this uses 2048 taps per channel vs dirac ddrc 88a 1200 taps per channel,(audyssey multeq xt32 has 512)
, and it does not require a umik, which saves money for those who have their own measurement mic.


here is how i see the typical avs member using it -if using it for room correction.

1.measure the room and impulse into REW room eq wizard(freeware)
2.on the PEQ side, use REW to generate and save the peq filters, which can be automatically downloaded to the 2x4hd
3. on the impulse side, export the REW impulse response to DRC(freeware)
4.use drc to create the filters,
5.export that to the 2x4hd,
6.done. enjoy


here is a step by step using acourate as an example. keep in mind acourate costs money and there a freeware programs that do the same thing

https://www.minidsp.com/applications...on/acouratedrc
Alan P and neo_2009 like this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.

Last edited by 1201; 03-21-2016 at 09:09 PM.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
another review of acourate
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...e-walkthrough/

author's conclusion
For folks that have never measured their speakers/room before and/or designed a custom finite impulse response (FIR) filter, it can be a bit of a challenging task. However, following the steps here, and after a couple of trial runs, and maybe some assistance from Uli’s knowledgeable and friendly support forum, I can set up, measure, tear down, design and implement the correction filter in under 60 minutes. The results presented here are from my 3rd run.

The reward is a finely tuned musical playback instrument that will bring one closer to the music. Short of a professionally designed and built acoustic listening space, I know of no other way to achieve this level of playback accuracy from speakers in a room.

For me, I am trying to replicate as accurately as possible the music that is stored in the digital media file on disk. For me, transparency is important as I want to hear the music and not the deficiencies in my speakers (not time-aligned or phase coherent) and room (poor room ratio, stereo offset on centerline, firing across short wall).

To my ears, the Acourate correction filters are completely transparent, I cannot hear any pre-ringing or any other digital artifacts like I have heard with other DRC software. There is no compressing of dynamics or any other anomaly that I could detect while listening for several hours.

To my ears, the filters sound correct from a psychoacoustic listening perspective. The spectral balance from top to bottom sounds perceptually flat to my ears. The tone quality or timbre is completely neutral.

With the left and right speaker within ±1 dB tolerance over the frequency range ensures a rock solid image. With the phase corrected, the “right” 3D image is presented at the “right” time (i.e. step response). This phase correction combined with a RFZ provides a level of listening clarity I have not heard before on my system. Almost like wearing headphones, but does not sound “in the head”.

To my ears, the bass response of the speakers in my room has never sounded tighter. The low bass is there, but does not suffer the “single note” bass sound of my badly proportioned room. Nor does it sound boomy or muddy. It sounds similar to the headphone experience of tight, clearly defined bass. Every room will have a resonant frequency (with peaks and dips) that is largely determined by the room’s physical dimensions. To find a rooms Schroeder frequency, and other important acoustic SQ parameters, enter in the rooms dimensions.

Acourate excels in smoothing out the “boxy” sound present in virtually every listening room. Just hearing the “coke bottle” effect or “one note” bass resonance gone is worth the price of Acourate alone.

This article just scratches the surface of Uli’s high end audio toolbox. On my to-do list is to tri-amp my speakers using Acourate’s high quality linear phase digital crossovers.

I am very impressed with Acourate. Bottom line, I hear more music and less room. For the money, I can’t think of a single upgrade to any music playback system that has this level of audible and measurable sound quality improvement.

Highly recommended.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
my 2 x 4 hd unit is scheduled to arrive tomorrow

for only $200 or so this sounds fantastic.
I'll spend plenty of time making mistakes

but for the EQ initially of 4 subs, SUBMAXIMUS, the 2 LOWAREHORNS and the dual VBBS unit,

could be a real winner,

just set the inukes all to by pass . . .
then eventually let XT32 and Sub EQ meld them as one, ref: @Austin Jerry
please post your thoughts here once you are set up. have you downloaded the plugin?

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-22-2016, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 2,095
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 297
^ correction

I got the unbalanced unit, converting unbalanced to balanced , lots of good reading/ science/argumentation but

re-wiring can't make a balanced signal of an unbalanced signal
my apologies to @AustinJerry for not getting it right
His body of work is a tremendous asset . .

and I've got plenty of bookmarks to prove it..

so where's my unit they said delivery today..

dang it . .

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
DUAL LOWARHORNS , SUBMAXIMUS, Custom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
asarose247 is offline  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sam S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Regarding mic usage... I have the Audyssey PRO mic, any chance that can be used instead of the umik?
Sam S is offline  
Old 03-22-2016, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Regarding mic usage... I have the Audyssey PRO mic, any chance that can be used instead of the umik?
i dont see why not . if its flat or you have the calibration file it can be used.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-23-2016, 03:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sam S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
i dont see why not . if its flat or you have the calibration file it can be used.
Great thanks. I do have the calibration file. So I'll need to read up on how to use that with the REW software.
Sam S is offline  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Mashie Saldana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Peterborough, UK
Posts: 475
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
and best of all... wait for it...
2048 FIR taps per channel!!!
Reading the manual it seems to be 2042 FIR taps per channel in 2 channel mode.

You have 4096 taps to use across the device with 4 channels and each channel must have at least 6 taps.

So in 2 channel mode that would be 2 channels with 2042 FIR taps each and two unused channels with 6 taps each.
Madmax67 likes this.

Under construction: Tower Cinema - 7.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Pioneer Kuro KRP-600A | HTPC with Kodi | Panasonic DMP-BD60 | Marantz SR-7010 feeding NAD T775 and 2x NAD T743
1x Monitor Audio GSLCR | 2x Monitor Audio GS20 | 4x Monitor Audio GSFX | 6x Monitor Audio BX1 | SVS PB-13 Ultra
Mashie Saldana is online now  
Old 03-23-2016, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Reading the manual it seems to be 2042 FIR taps per channel in 2 channel mode.

You have 4096 taps to use across the device with 4 channels and each channel must have at least 6 taps.

So in 2 channel mode that would be 2 channels with 2042 FIR taps each and two unused channels with 6 taps each.


good catch and I think you are right. reason I say that is I was playing with the plugin last night and I noticed that the FIR filters are on the outputs, not the inputs. I thought it would be 2048 per input but its actually 4096 to be shared per output(4 outputs)


Im using mine as 2in 2 out so it wont be a problem but it does reduce the number of filters available per channel for those guys running 4 outputs.


the devteam says there is a lot more functionality coming though. this thing has a 400mhz processor . its going to be capable of a lot in the future, I hope
noshank likes this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-23-2016, 10:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Mashie Saldana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Peterborough, UK
Posts: 475
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Since you have one of these, can you configure it so both the inputs are mixed to a single output?

Under construction: Tower Cinema - 7.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Pioneer Kuro KRP-600A | HTPC with Kodi | Panasonic DMP-BD60 | Marantz SR-7010 feeding NAD T775 and 2x NAD T743
1x Monitor Audio GSLCR | 2x Monitor Audio GS20 | 4x Monitor Audio GSFX | 6x Monitor Audio BX1 | SVS PB-13 Ultra
Mashie Saldana is online now  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:06 PM
Member
 
altspacen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Is there a quick ExplainLikeIm5 version of why having an FIR filter is so great for this?

I'm under the assumption that the PEQ functionality that REW has to export into the minidsp is enough, but as 1201 states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
1.measure the room and impulse into REW room eq wizard(freeware)
2.on the PEQ side, use REW to generate and save the peq filters, which can be automatically downloaded to the 2x4hd
3. on the impulse side, export the REW impulse response to DRC(freeware)
4.use drc to create the filters,
5.export that to the 2x4hd,
6.done. enjoy
that isn't the case and this is 'in addition to' the PEQ side of the unit. I've tried to search around and I fee like I'm coming up short handed.
altspacen is offline  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Since you have one of these, can you configure it so both the inputs are mixed to a single output?
i dont have my box yet but the software allows you to send both inputs to one output (or more if needed)
Madmax67 likes this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-23-2016, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by altspacen View Post
Is there a quick ExplainLikeIm5 version of why having an FIR filter is so great for this?

I'm under the assumption that the PEQ functionality that REW has to export into the minidsp is enough, but as 1201 states:

that isn't the case and this is 'in addition to' the PEQ side of the unit. I've tried to search around and I fee like I'm coming up short handed.
this is why having FIR is great



the middle one is no FIR , as tested by me, in my room. as you can see, it is the "dirtiest" and all the extra impulses just lead to subtle smearing

FIR cleans up the impulse, much like treating your room with A LOT of sound absorbtion.

Parametric eq cannot do this.
Madmax67 likes this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-24-2016, 01:46 PM
Member
 
altspacen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
this is why having FIR is great



the middle one is no FIR , as tested by me, in my room. as you can see, it is the "dirtiest" and all the extra impulses just lead to subtle smearing

FIR cleans up the impulse, much like treating your room with A LOT of sound absorbtion.

Parametric eq cannot do this.
Then it seems the issue I have is interpreting that graph into what I would hear and that's where I fall short in understanding. I don't want to get too far off topic for sake of the product, but at the same time if someone has a similar question they'll see this broken down.
Is that a 2d version of a waterfall, or am I totally off point there? Or, is it graphing the equivalent of a one tone burst and the room/speakers ability to immediately stop afterwards?
If it's the first, waterfall, I can kind of see how it could relate if I thought about it. If it's the second, burst, then to me it means that it's like playing an instrument where one note does not bleed into another note because the room/speakers have stopped to play the next note and it doesn't carry over. (maybe a stretch to understand where I was going with that but it makes sense in my head if that is what that graph represents.)
Again, thanks for replying and I am stoked for my 2x4hd and umik to come in the mail so I can finally equalize these 4 vs18.1 and really push the limit.

Sidenote: since it was mentioned that impulse treating through DSP is similar in benefit to acoustical treatment, does that mean that adding treatment would be any more/less effective than without DSP impulse treatment?
altspacen is offline  
Old 03-25-2016, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by altspacen View Post
Then it seems the issue I have is interpreting that graph into what I would hear and that's where I fall short in understanding. I don't want to get too far off topic for sake of the product, but at the same time if someone has a similar question they'll see this broken down.
Is that a 2d version of a waterfall, or am I totally off point there? Or, is it graphing the equivalent of a one tone burst and the room/speakers ability to immediately stop afterwards?
If it's the first, waterfall, I can kind of see how it could relate if I thought about it. If it's the second, burst, then to me it means that it's like playing an instrument where one note does not bleed into another note because the room/speakers have stopped to play the next note and it doesn't carry over. (maybe a stretch to understand where I was going with that but it makes sense in my head if that is what that graph represents.)
Again, thanks for replying and I am stoked for my 2x4hd and umik to come in the mail so I can finally equalize these 4 vs18.1 and really push the limit.

Sidenote: since it was mentioned that impulse treating through DSP is similar in benefit to acoustical treatment, does that mean that adding treatment would be any more/less effective than without DSP impulse treatment?

this is an impulse similar to a gunshot or a balloon popping. in a perfect world there would be an instant rise and it would die. see the image i attached, taking a measurement straight from the preamp output, with no speaker or room interaction.


in reality the sound comes out of the speaker and bounces all over the room , hitting the walls ,floor, and bouncing back to our ears. we dont hear multiple impulses per se, because of the precedence effect or law of the first wavefront, but it still leads to a loss of clarity.

cleaning up these responses in the time domain is what FIR filters do for us.

i think sound treatment definitely has its place, but from all the data ive seen, good dsp time correction does a more powerful job than sound treatment in cleaning up the response in an average room. of course, if aesthetics or WAF or funds are not a concern, i say go crazy with the sound treatment
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	preamp impulse.jpg
Views:	333
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	1338778  

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.

Last edited by 1201; 04-02-2016 at 05:08 AM.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-25-2016, 11:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 2,095
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 297
^

a work in progress wrt the 2 x 4hd,but for the above wrt to room treatment

from the my post in the dedicated acoustical treatment thread from a few days ago

That's 36 ft^2 of 5 - 5 1/2" thick combo of 2" 703 overlayed with 3.5" Roxul
tried to get an even apportionment wrt to the "Scatmos" .6 tops

definitely a major HT upgrade wrt clarity

the hushed effect in silence at the mlp very noticeable,

a most convincing example of the absolute necessity for room treatment,

tho not as exciting as "new toys" . it will make you appreciate how it can all come togtether


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: 20160322_191151 (2).jpg Views: 36 Size: 168.6 KB ID: 1333042

I haven't seen or heard about much cloud work done wrt ATMOS on ceiling applications, so trying to keep up with the technology and making it happen for me should prove to be an interesting learning experience .

I'll be asking plenty of questions, no doubt

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
DUAL LOWARHORNS , SUBMAXIMUS, Custom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
asarose247 is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 01:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1201 View Post
this is why having FIR is great



the middle one is no FIR , as tested by me, in my room. as you can see, it is the "dirtiest" and all the extra impulses just lead to subtle smearing
FIR cleans up the impulse, much like treating your room with A LOT of sound absorbtion.
Parametric eq cannot do this.
Lots of preringing on the DIRAC, non on the non-treated and some on the Trinnov, much less than on the DIRAC.
This is no real clean impulse pattern as stated, but you ment your comment probably for the less informed...
Pre-ringing means, that the impulse pattern starts before the initial event, which is a sign of a non-windowed FIR response, a common problem for a rather "sloppy" FIR implementation.
Not quite the result, which one would expect for a well implemented FIR filter response...

Last edited by gurkey; 03-26-2016 at 01:23 AM.
gurkey is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 02:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Mashie Saldana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Peterborough, UK
Posts: 475
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
^

a work in progress wrt the 2 x 4hd,but for the above wrt to room treatment

from the my post in the dedicated acoustical treatment thread from a few days ago

That's 36 ft^2 of 5 - 5 1/2" thick combo of 2" 703 overlayed with 3.5" Roxul
tried to get an even apportionment wrt to the "Scatmos" .6 tops

definitely a major HT upgrade wrt clarity

the hushed effect in silence at the mlp very noticeable,

a most convincing example of the absolute necessity for room treatment,

tho not as exciting as "new toys" . it will make you appreciate how it can all come togtether


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: 20160322_191151 (2).jpg Views: 36 Size: 168.6 KB ID: 1333042

I haven't seen or heard about much cloud work done wrt ATMOS on ceiling applications, so trying to keep up with the technology and making it happen for me should prove to be an interesting learning experience .

I'll be asking plenty of questions, no doubt
You know, you could use two 2x4HD's for the entire scatmos logic, no need for additional AVR's. The 2x4HD's can be set to break out the centre channel by simply mixing both the inputs to one of the outputs and drop the result by 3-6dB. Then you can do all the delay settings for all three channels as well as add a 1363 tap FIR filter on each channel.

As a result you should get a pretty spectacular .6 sound. This also means you can use a single ddrc-88a for the bed channels.

Under construction: Tower Cinema - 7.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Pioneer Kuro KRP-600A | HTPC with Kodi | Panasonic DMP-BD60 | Marantz SR-7010 feeding NAD T775 and 2x NAD T743
1x Monitor Audio GSLCR | 2x Monitor Audio GS20 | 4x Monitor Audio GSFX | 6x Monitor Audio BX1 | SVS PB-13 Ultra
Mashie Saldana is online now  
Old 03-26-2016, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post
Lots of preringing on the DIRAC, non on the non-treated and some on the Trinnov, much less than on the DIRAC.
This is no real clean impulse pattern as stated, but you ment your comment probably for the less informed...
Pre-ringing means, that the impulse pattern starts before the initial event, which is a sign of a non-windowed FIR response, a common problem for a rather "sloppy" FIR implementation.
Not quite the result, which one would expect for a well implemented FIR filter response...
well done FIR, eg dirac or trinnov, does not have AUDIBLE preringing, but sure does have an audible effect / improvement post impulse. I know this because ive tested it.

my comment was meant for everyone , thanks

the good news is that the minidsp 2x4hd, does not limit the user to one fir generator. find one you like
Madmax67 likes this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-26-2016, 09:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
asarose247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DIY enabled in SoCal / OC
Posts: 2,095
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Liked: 297
@ Mashie Saldana,

your suggestion is awesome wrt Scatmos using 2 units,

I have a spare UPA 7 amp with 1 intermittent channel but the other 6- ah ha!

I have to learn enough to get the subs going first

DIY FAN Denon X5200 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS/DSU/SHARP 80" LED/LCD
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: F4Q4LP , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX
DUAL LOWARHORNS , SUBMAXIMUS, Custom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x Inuke6000DSP
www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1485120-submaximus-large-front-loaded-horn
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...orn-build.html
asarose247 is offline  
Old 03-31-2016, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
the eagle has FN landed!!!

i got my units 3 days ago and its been 3 sleepless nights trying to get a freeware program that would load only 2042 taps, and at 96khz for the room correction. I learned how to create batch files, do command line instructions,convert sample rates etc etc but gd i got it.

Thank you DRC and Denis Sbragion . DRC came to the rescue. it outputs 96khz, allows one to set any number of taps(2042) and is amazingly configurable. i believe it has something like 150 different options that can be changed.

this is my first attempt using DRC's "NORMAL" file which is just one of about 6 sample configurations it comes with . it does a very nice job of taking the room sound away and i was reminded again why i just love FIR based room correction. the detail just flows out. i havent got the graph looking as good as dirac live but i expect that with some tweaking ill get there.

i have to say, right now ive got a very trinnov-esque sound going on and it sounds goooood.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	center channel with FIR.jpg
Views:	226
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	1350610   Click image for larger version

Name:	center channel no fir.jpg
Views:	221
Size:	57.0 KB
ID:	1350618   Click image for larger version

Name:	center channel both.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	1350626  
stef2 and neo_2009 like this.

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.

Last edited by 1201; 04-02-2016 at 05:10 AM.
1201 is offline  
Old 03-31-2016, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 119
small but mighty
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160331_114502.jpg
Views:	1551
Size:	137.6 KB
ID:	1350634  

64 base level speakers $10k
28 height speakers $10k,
14 subwoofers $10k
90% of the movie sound coming from the center channel - priceless.
1201 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off