"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
And all this while I was thinking Audyssey should make your life easier. No hassle where your MLP is with respect to ideal, just run that damn Audyssey for your actual (compromised) seating positions (6-8 of them) and let Audyssey work it's magic to immerse you in Audio nirvana..
Oh well.. When do I watch that movie?
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Nah, honestly, Audyssey does great job as is...this what we talking about is already a nitpicking. Typically, running calibration and REW measurement afterwards for some tweaks gets the job done in very satisfying manner.

This is why I drew a distinction earlier about the difference between chasing measurements and chasing audio quality. The fact is that even with a trial-and-error approach to calibration, most of us have achieved very good audio results, and there is no guarantee that an even better measurement would result in noticeably better sound.
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post #932 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can you elaborate more on your plan to do this and what the benefit is that you anticipate getting compared to just using Dirac or Audyssey along?
Tbh, I expressed myself poorly. Technically, I am not using Audyssey + Dirac fully at the same time. I will just run Audyssey to set up receiver properly, mainly to adjust speaker distances and levels properly. I could simply do that manually if I wanted to.
The only difference is that I won't be using Audyssey EQ curve (Reference or Flat) but DIRAC curve.
I cannot use DIRAC only because i have software version on my PC, I don't have AVR like Emotiva with DIRAC room correction.
And since I have Denon AVR, I am "forced" to use settings it provides.
Main benefit of this setting of mine would be ability to manipulate EQ curve to my liking, particularly to forbid any EQ on high frequencies for some or all channels which seems to be causing me some issues at the moment.
Also, so far I have had a feeling that compared to audyssey, dirac has much more consistent results (and my awkward unpredictable room and Audyssey don't get along so good above 100 Hz imo )


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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Would it be sufficient to measure L+R+sub at once and look for the spots near the MLP with the least anomalies?
I'd definitely add Center channel in the mix. Typically being on a stand with drivers much closer to a floor (or a shelf below TV) it often behaves dramatically different in lows/mids then your L and R.
But ideally, if you have a time and willpower to do what i suggested in that long post of mine, to compare how audysseys results look like each time you add one more poor measuring location, one speaker + sub would be sufficient to determine a pattern.
I'd actually love to do it, but it would take me a whole day and I don't have a day to spare until next month.

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post #933 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
This is why I drew a distinction earlier about the difference between chasing measurements and chasing audio quality. The fact is that even with a trial-and-error approach to calibration, most of us have achieved very good audio results, and there is no guarantee that an even better measurement would result in noticeably better sound.
I agree with this. The real challenge is that its nearly impossible to A/B. Like you (or someone earlier today if it wasn't you) said, its pretty easy to tell the difference between bad and good, but much harder to tell the difference between very good and a bit better than that.
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post #934 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Can you please clarify what you meant in an earlier post about using REW to check the trims set by Audyssey and which you'd trust more? After an 8 point calibration I use REW for my 2.1 setup and the Right channel was 0.5 dB low. I know, I know... But a half dB is a half dB! It's also quite possible that my mic position is not in the same exact spot which is accounting for the difference.

On a related note, after the calibration when I check the SPL with the MV at 0 using internal test tones and REW, both the R/L channels measure about 73.5 dB, so about 1.5 dB lower than the 75 dB I'm expecting. No biggie. But should I just manually raise them so they are at 75 dB? Strangely enough my subwoofer measures about 8 dB below that. I've adjusted the gain accordingly. But didn't expect that.

BTW why is it that folks say not to put much belief/value in the Audyssey EQ graphs when checking the results? It seems like useful information to me. Are they graphs not accurate or something? It seems to provide a good idea of where it is boosting and cutting, so why do folks discredit these charts? Also - it displays a L and R graph for my 2.1 setup, but I don't see any such graph for the subwoofer. Is there a way you are supposed to scroll to that on the next screen or something, or do they not make the subwoofer EQ graph available?

I want to add that the system sounds amazing with the calibrations I tried (except the 1 point cali which I originally did which sounded too bright). So this is just a matter of trying to take the experience from a 10 to an "11". . Its also a matter of trying to learn the ins and outs of Audyssey as practice for my new dedicated theater room which hopefully will be ready around the end of the month.

Thanks!
I tried to answer the first couple of questions in a lengthy response to you a couple of pages back. The short answer is just to trust Audyssey's trim settings, and don't adjust them without an audible reason. The exception of course is the sub. Nearly everyone adjusts the trim on the sub(s) upward, which is why it is recommended to start with a strongly negative trim. But then, we still do it for an audible reason. Because we want more bass.

The reason why it is not recommended to pay much attention to the graphs in your AVR/pre pro is twofold. First, they don't actually show you what Audyssey did. They are simply crude depictions of the issues that Audyssey was trying to address, pre-calibration.

Second, XT-32 sets thousands of filters across the entire frequency range from 10Hz to 20,000 Hz, depending on the capabilities of your speakers/subs. No one knows exactly how many filters, or taps, are actually employed. But a crude graph with a couple of dozen data points can't possibly capture what Audyssey intended to do, much less what it actually did, in any meaningful way.

The consensus on the thread has always been that the graphs are just a marketing gimmick. Because who doesn't like to look at cool graphs?
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post #935 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I agree with this. The real challenge is that its nearly impossible to A/B. Like you (or someone earlier today if it wasn't you) said, its pretty easy to tell the difference between bad and good, but much harder to tell the difference between very good and a bit better than that.
Hehe, yeah, down the rabbit hole is always bad way to go if you've made it sound pretty good.
You can do a decent A/B comparison if you have a good reference point. Personally, I prefer clarity in my sound and I don't mind some coloration. But often when I spend my time in front of computer its usually with Sennheiser HD800 headphones on ears and that has become my signature sound/reference.
Often times when I did audyssey calibration I'd run some familiar songs and while they sound really good I find myself thinking: "Well thats not quite right!" But I can't pinpoint the issue really so I grab mic and REW and find (for example) some wild midrange variations and a bit of a wide dip there. I put headphones on, recreate EQ variation (dip) with anything handy and play same song...yep, thats what i heard in my room.
Some time later, I fooled around with Dirac, making real sloppy measurements for my HTPC just out of curiosity. My HT was pretty much done at this point, even acoustic treatments were in place and I loved it, but anyway, made the Dirac measurement and filter. Turned on some familiar song with female vocal and switched back/forth between Dirac and Audyssey. Everything was almost identical, but when I heard that female vocal with Dirac I instantly thought: "Holy sh*t this sounds exactly like on my headphones."
Most people wouldn't notice...or care. It sounds great both ways. But sounds "WOW" only one way for me. Thats also one of the reasons why I prefer more flexible EQ management. Hopefully Audyssey will one day get to that point too.
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post #936 of 3816 Old 08-09-2016, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
after the calibration when I check the SPL with the MV at 0 using internal test tones and REW
I don't have time for a full reply right now, but.....why do you keep doing this?? You have REW...use the signal generator to check speaker trims, the internal tones bypass the Audyssey EQ filters and are irrelevant.
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post #937 of 3816 Old 08-10-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
The one you point to handles the thread conversion as well as some "flexibility." Get it. Try it.

Looking at it myself, it doesn't look like it has the freedom and ease that the Audio-Technica has. Every time I curse, the amount I shoulda/coulda/woulda spent goes up be $5.00. Just sayin'.

Jeff
Audiofan - I got the adapter to hold the Audyssey mic in the boom which you linked to from Amazon. Thanks. It seems well built. However I'm a little confused about something and it may just be me. . My only goes as low as about 4 feet. So if I need to take a measurement at head level which is at 4 feet, I have the boom at a downward angle at like 45 degrees. In this position I can't figure out how to adjust that adapter so that the mic will point straight up to the ceiling. Instead no matter how much I fiddle with the adapter it can only point upward at an angle far less than 90 degrees. That's the case when the boom is at a lower angle. When the boom itself is at a 90 degree angle or greater, THAN the adapter has the flexibility to straight out the mic so it stays at 90 degrees.

The challenge for me is that my main listening height requires the boom to be on a downward angle, so unless I'm doing something silly, which there is a great possibility here, than I can't get the adapter to let me straighten up the mic up. With the REW mic holder I have full flexibility of course and can just bend it up far enough to get to the 90. But that's not the case with this adapter. Am I missing something or does it have this limitation? Thank you!

Pepar - I assume the adapter you linked to does not have this limitation?
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post #938 of 3816 Old 08-10-2016, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Audiofan - I got the adapter to hold the Audyssey mic in the boom which you linked to from Amazon. Thanks. It seems well built. However I'm a little confused about something and it may just be me. . My only goes as low as about 4 feet. So if I need to take a measurement at head level which is at 4 feet, I have the boom at a downward angle at like 45 degrees. In this position I can't figure out how to adjust that adapter so that the mic will point straight up to the ceiling. Instead no matter how much I fiddle with the adapter it can only point upward at an angle far less than 90 degrees. That's the case when the boom is at a lower angle. When the boom itself is at a 90 degree angle or greater, THAN the adapter has the flexibility to straight out the mic so it stays at 90 degrees.

The challenge for me is that my main listening height requires the boom to be on a downward angle, so unless I'm doing something silly, which there is a great possibility here, than I can't get the adapter to let me straighten up the mic up. With the REW mic holder I have full flexibility of course and can just bend it up far enough to get to the 90. But that's not the case with this adapter. Am I missing something or does it have this limitation? Thank you!

Pepar - I assume the adapter you linked to does not have this limitation?
Which boom are you using? Mine has many adjustment levels to get lower than 4ft, are you sure it can't be lowered, try checking and see if anything can be twisted to lower a bit.
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post #939 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Audiofan - I got the adapter to hold the Audyssey mic in the boom which you linked to from Amazon. Thanks. It seems well built. However I'm a little confused about something and it may just be me. . My only goes as low as about 4 feet. So if I need to take a measurement at head level which is at 4 feet, I have the boom at a downward angle at like 45 degrees. In this position I can't figure out how to adjust that adapter so that the mic will point straight up to the ceiling. Instead no matter how much I fiddle with the adapter it can only point upward at an angle far less than 90 degrees. That's the case when the boom is at a lower angle. When the boom itself is at a 90 degree angle or greater, THAN the adapter has the flexibility to straight out the mic so it stays at 90 degrees.

The challenge for me is that my main listening height requires the boom to be on a downward angle, so unless I'm doing something silly, which there is a great possibility here, than I can't get the adapter to let me straighten up the mic up. With the REW mic holder I have full flexibility of course and can just bend it up far enough to get to the 90. But that's not the case with this adapter. Am I missing something or does it have this limitation? Thank you!

Pepar - I assume the adapter you linked to does not have this limitation?
It does not, and that was what I was referring to earlier.

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post #940 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Audiofan - I got the adapter to hold the Audyssey mic in the boom which you linked to from Amazon. Thanks. It seems well built. However I'm a little confused about something and it may just be me. . My only goes as low as about 4 feet. So if I need to take a measurement at head level which is at 4 feet, I have the boom at a downward angle at like 45 degrees. In this position I can't figure out how to adjust that adapter so that the mic will point straight up to the ceiling. Instead no matter how much I fiddle with the adapter it can only point upward at an angle far less than 90 degrees. That's the case when the boom is at a lower angle. When the boom itself is at a 90 degree angle or greater, THAN the adapter has the flexibility to straight out the mic so it stays at 90 degrees.

The challenge for me is that my main listening height requires the boom to be on a downward angle, so unless I'm doing something silly, which there is a great possibility here, than I can't get the adapter to let me straighten up the mic up. With the REW mic holder I have full flexibility of course and can just bend it up far enough to get to the 90. But that's not the case with this adapter. Am I missing something or does it have this limitation? Thank you!

Pepar - I assume the adapter you linked to does not have this limitation?
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Which boom are you using? Mine has many adjustment levels to get lower than 4ft, are you sure it can't be lowered, try checking and see if anything can be twisted to lower a bit.

+1

My adapter doesn't have as much flexibility either as the one Jeff is recommending. It is one linked in the FAQ that I got from Amazon years ago, as is my boom mic stand. It's sort of a Rubik's Cube process to get the mic to point more-or-less straight up with the boom arm at less than a 90* angle, but hey, where's the fun in making things easy.

Seriously, just keep playing with it and you should be able to get pretty close. I don't know that it is critical to have the mic point precisely at the ceiling, versus being angled by just a few degrees.
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post #941 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 08:03 AM
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Which boom are you using? Mine has many adjustment levels to get lower than 4ft, are you sure it can't be lowered, try checking and see if anything can be twisted to lower a bit.
I'm using this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000978D58/ . Works great for the UMIK-1 because of the way the mic holder can tilt at any angle. Yes the lowest this mic stand will go requires that the boom part be lower than 90 degrees for any mic position below 3 feet. For my couch position the mic needs to be around 2.25 feet.

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It does not, and that was what I was referring to earlier.

Jeff
Thanks. I knew you said it didn't have as much flexibility, but I didn't realize that was flexibility I'd definitely would be needing. I'm going to look into whether I can pick it up locally today.

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+1

My adapter doesn't have as much flexibility either as the one Jeff is recommending. It is one linked in the FAQ that I got from Amazon years ago, as is my boom mic stand. It's sort of a Rubik's Cube process to get the mic to point more-or-less straight up with the boom arm at less than a 90* angle, but hey, where's the fun in making things easy.

Seriously, just keep playing with it and you should be able to get pretty close. I don't know that it is critical to have the mic point precisely at the ceiling, versus being angled by just a few degrees.
I tried for quite some time twisting and turning with all the various moving parts between the adapter, stand and boom. However nothing can get the mic pointed straight up (or even too close to it) unless the boom is at 90 degrees or higher, and it my case its more like 50-70 degrees. As far as the importance of the mic facing straight up - its my understand that its very important because the mic is likely calibrated based on 90 degrees and it also may have to do with the way sound reflects in a room.
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post #942 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 08:19 AM
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I'm using this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000978D58/ . Works great for the UMIK-1 because of the way the mic holder can tilt at any angle. Yes the lowest this mic stand will go requires that the boom part be lower than 90 degrees for any mic position below 3 feet. For my couch position the mic needs to be around 2.25 feet.


Thanks. I knew you said it didn't have as much flexibility, but I didn't realize that was flexibility I'd definitely would be needing. I'm going to look into whether I can pick it up locally today.


I tried for quite some time twisting and turning with all the various moving parts between the adapter, stand and boom. However nothing can get the mic pointed straight up (or even too close to it) unless the boom is at 90 degrees or higher, and it my case its more like 50-70 degrees. As far as the importance of the mic facing straight up - its my understand that its very important because the mic is likely calibrated based on 90 degrees and it also may have to do with the way sound reflects in a room.
I have the same mic stand you do, and this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-D...RB63Y44FKM15ZQ

As I said, it takes some contortions to make the mic point straight up when the boom arm is below 90*. And it is important that the mic point more-or-less straight up. But there were some spirited discussions on the thread some years ago regarding just how important it is to be exact in pointing straight up. The consensus that I recall from both measurements and listening tests is that you definitely want the mic to point up, but a few degrees of variance doesn't make an appreciable difference.
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post #943 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 08:31 AM
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For my couch position the mic needs to be around 2.25 feet.
Are you a hobbit...or do you sit on the floor?

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I have the same mic stand you do, and this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-D...RB63Y44FKM15ZQ

As I said, it takes some contortions to make the mic point straight up when the boom arm is below 90*. And it is important that the mic point more-or-less straight up. But there were some spirited discussions on the thread some years ago regarding just how important it is to be exact in pointing straight up. The consensus that I recall from both measurements and listening tests is that you definitely want the mic to point up, but a few degrees of variance doesn't make an appreciable difference.
If you have a chance can you try a test for me? Put the boom at about a 30-40 degree downward angle and see if you can get the mic pointed straight up. I wonder if it is something I can doing, or if it just is not possible. The closest I can get is maybe 5-10 degrees from pointing straight up. By my HT OCD will not allow me to take measurements that way.
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post #945 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 08:53 AM
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If you have a chance can you try a test for me? Put the boom at about a 30-40 degree downward angle and see if you can get the mic pointed straight up. I wonder if it is something I can doing, or if it just is not possible. The closest I can get is maybe 5-10 degrees from pointing straight up. By my HT OCD will not allow me to take measurements that way.
I hear you on the OCD part. I will be glad to try it when I get home tonight. FWIW, although my ear height is several inches higher than yours, my boom arm is still below parallel to the floor. I think that the best I have been able to do is about 5* from straight up, too. And I work harder than I probably need to in order to achieve that. But, we all apply our OCD in different ways, and I honestly don't think that the Audyssey mic responds in any meaningful way to such a small variance in directionality.
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If you have a chance can you try a test for me? Put the boom at about a 30-40 degree downward angle and see if you can get the mic pointed straight up. I wonder if it is something I can doing, or if it just is not possible. The closest I can get is maybe 5-10 degrees from pointing straight up. By my HT OCD will not allow me to take measurements that way.
The design of the adapter prevents it from exceeding 90°. That means it can point the measurement mic straight up for boom arm angles of 0° to 90°. If the arm is at a downward angle from horizontal the adapter cannot ... adapt.

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I honestly don't think that the Audyssey mic responds in any meaningful way to such a small variance in directionality.
How much of ANY of the deep in the weeds stuff that we do makes any "meaningful" difference?
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I have the same mic stand you do, and this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-D...RB63Y44FKM15ZQ

As I said, it takes some contortions to make the mic point straight up when the boom arm is below 90*. And it is important that the mic point more-or-less straight up. But there were some spirited discussions on the thread some years ago regarding just how important it is to be exact in pointing straight up. The consensus that I recall from both measurements and listening tests is that you definitely want the mic to point up, but a few degrees of variance doesn't make an appreciable difference.
I'm using the same boom as well and have no problems getting it straight up (should I choose to let my mild case of ocd win out) some have said its better to use a very short boom place low on the floor and pointed up as to get the boom itself out of the way.
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post #949 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:23 AM
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I have the same mic stand you do, and this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-D...RB63Y44FKM15ZQ

As I said, it takes some contortions to make the mic point straight up when the boom arm is below 90*. And it is important that the mic point more-or-less straight up. But there were some spirited discussions on the thread some years ago regarding just how important it is to be exact in pointing straight up. The consensus that I recall from both measurements and listening tests is that you definitely want the mic to point up, but a few degrees of variance doesn't make an appreciable difference.
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If you have a chance can you try a test for me? Put the boom at about a 30-40 degree downward angle and see if you can get the mic pointed straight up. I wonder if it is something I can doing, or if it just is not possible. The closest I can get is maybe 5-10 degrees from pointing straight up. By my HT OCD will not allow me to take measurements that way.
If it's to high, yes it will limit the ability to point straight up! In the end just be sure your not to far below the height of your ears and or tweeters
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post #950 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:34 AM
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Well after calling 5 local stores that were all listed as dealers for the adapter Pepar recommends, I was reminded why buying online is so much better. In fact I think its been years since I've called around local stores looking for something that no one had. At any rate, I couldn't locate it locally. I could get it from Amazon (non prime) for delivery Monday. Instead I think I will try and make the current adapter work as best as I can, and then manually tilt the boom stand by putting something under one of the legs to get it square to the ceiling. Will see how that goes. In any event, it has to be easier than trying to balance the Audyssey mic on the UMIK-1 mic holder. . On second thought - I will try taping it to the UMK-1 mic holder - that may enable me to tilt it as much as I need to. Will let you guys know how it works out. Thanks.
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post #951 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Well after calling 5 local stores that were all listed as dealers for the adapter Pepar recommends, I was reminded why buying online is so much better. In fact I think its been years since I've called around local stores looking for something that no one had. At any rate, I couldn't locate it locally. I could get it from Amazon (non prime) for delivery Monday. Instead I think I will try and make the current adapter work as best as I can, and then manually tilt the boom stand by putting something under one of the legs to get it square to the ceiling. Will see how that goes. In any event, it has to be easier than trying to balance the Audyssey mic on the UMIK-1 mic holder. . On second thought - I will try taping it to the UMK-1 mic holder - that may enable me to tilt it as much as I need to. Will let you guys know how it works out. Thanks.
You are suffering so much. Just duct tape microphone to one of your ears and lean your head a bit and do the measurements. That way Audyssey calibration will compensate for your body reflections.
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post #952 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 12:00 PM
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You are suffering so much. Just duct tape microphone to one of your ears and lean your head a bit and do the measurements. That way Audyssey calibration will compensate for your body reflections.
Funny, but actually this brings up a good point. They say to measure with everything in the room, including chairs and furniture as usual. Yet we are supposed to leave the room. Makes me wonder if it is actually more accurate to measure with us in the room, at least at the MLP. Wonder if that changes the results.
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post #953 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 12:02 PM
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Funny, but actually this brings up a good point. They say to measure with everything in the room, including chairs and furniture as usual. Yet we are supposed to leave the room. Makes me wonder if it is actually more accurate to measure with us in the room, at least at the MLP. Wonder if that changes the results.
Just remember to sit very still or you'll blow the calibration
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post #954 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 12:14 PM
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Funny, but actually this brings up a good point. They say to measure with everything in the room, including chairs and furniture as usual. Yet we are supposed to leave the room. Makes me wonder if it is actually more accurate to measure with us in the room, at least at the MLP. Wonder if that changes the results.

You really are having fun overthinking this. It isn't really necessary to leave the room, although some people do. I stay in the room, but in a place where my body won't interfere with a direct line-of-sight from any of my speakers to the Audyssey mic. And then I simply sit still and quietly during the test tones.

If you tried to remain in your listening chair, you would have trouble getting the mic placements where you want them. And your body would act just like the chair back as far as bouncing spurious reflections into the Audyssey mic. Of course, you could always do what is recommended with a leather chair back, and cover yourself with a fluffy absorbent blanket. The operational logistics of that might be a little tricky, though.
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post #955 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Funny, but actually this brings up a good point. They say to measure with everything in the room, including chairs and furniture as usual. Yet we are supposed to leave the room. Makes me wonder if it is actually more accurate to measure with us in the room, at least at the MLP. Wonder if that changes the results.
Well, wonder no further. I have done numerous calibrations and measurements with mic in my hand (mostly REW measurements) and concluded that human body has no significant effect on measurements. But you have to stay out of line of sight of speakers and not in a way of first reflections. Noise also doesn't affect measurements much unless it is close to loudness of measurements or louder. That of course doesn't mean you can fart, burp and eat nachos while holding microphone with legs and take measurements.
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post #956 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 01:08 PM
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Thank you guys for all your constructive comments and further ideas on this new procedure on the mic placement scheme.

Let me do some more brainstorming for further discussions and to keep the ball running.

We all know that this procedure is not an EQ'ing procedure, just serves the purpose of "mapping" our listening area in order to rule out abnormalities like heavy peaks & dips in the bass region and diminishing highs in order not to feed MultEQ any junk that will skew up the filters.

Now comes the simplification of matters for determining the proper mic spots after #1 at MLP. Well, having a bunch of graphs will all different kinds of wierd shapes may look a bit scary at the beginning, but again, nothing to be afraid of, coz this is just a drill.

The key to success here should lie in the shape of the graph, nothing but the shape. At this stage we need not worry whether we found a narrow dip at 65 Hz or a huge peak at 45 Hz, doesn't really matter. What matters IMHO is how the shape of the curve looks like at each measurment point and to what extend it deviates from flat. Yeah, flat from 10 Hz to 24 kHz, coz now we have a visual of each spot in front of our eyes we didn't have before when we had to do a lot of trial'n'error based calibrations, even with strings hanging from the ceiling for the mic spots (I remember Jerry doing that) and also remember some guys running Audyssey on a weekly basis experimenting endlessly.

And now in order to determine which mic spots to use and which ones to avoid, we can call "fuzzy logic" into the game as follows:

Set up three groups based on the flatness of the curves:

1. Group 1: Slight deviation from flat
2. Group 2: Medium deviation from flat
3. Group 3: Strong deviation from flat

Remember, here we really don't need to care about exact deviations, we do not need to worry about that crazy dip at a certain frecuency. The most important thing is that now we have a group of three different kinds of deviations from flat. We can omit Group 2) and Group3), select 6 points for MultEQ or 8 points for MultEQ XT and MultEQ XT32 from Group1) and run the Audyssey setup routine as usual.

Even though some might already have a calibrated mic (UMIK-1 or the like) used for REW, but I think at this early stage of acoustical mapping of our seating area this can even be done with the little Audyssey mic. We are not calibrating, just looking at relative differences among the curves and for that purpose the Eiffel tower Audyssey mic should be just fine. No surgical precision, no mathematical exactness, and finally no sweat needed here at this initial stage.

Let's talk!

Further to all the above I've been thinking on how to simplify the measurement part of this scheme. Probably instead of doing a myriad of spot measurements around the seating area it might be more practical to do it with REW's RTA feature.

It would allow to simply pull the mic about and watch how the FR changes and take note of those spots where the diviation from flat becomes more and more apparent.

This might not be so troublesome when repeatedly done with the three front speakers (LCR).

Probably I'll have time over the weekend to do some initial testing of this method.

Your thoughts are appreciated and welcome, as always.
Further to all the above I've been thinking on how to simplify the measurement part of this scheme. Probably instead of doing a myriad of spot measurements around the seating area it might be more practical to do it with REW's RTA feature.

It would allow to simply pull the mic about and watch how the FR changes and take note of those spots where the diviation from flat becomes more and more apparent.

This might not be so troublesome when repeatedly done with the three front speakers (LCR).

Probably I'll have time over the weekend to do some initial testing of this method.

Your thoughts are appreciated and welcome, as always.
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post #957 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 02:15 PM
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I'm using the same boom as well and have no problems getting it straight up
I am trying mightily to not let that image enter my head.
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post #958 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 04:07 PM
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I am trying mightily to not let that image enter my head.
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post #959 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 04:12 PM
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Funny, but actually this brings up a good point. They say to measure with everything in the room, including chairs and furniture as usual. Yet we are supposed to leave the room. Makes me wonder if it is actually more accurate to measure with us in the room, at least at the MLP. Wonder if that changes the results.
Exactly. I had mentioned at some point that we should actualy have headset instead of mic from Audyssey, in that it has mics outside those ear muffs (instead of speakers inside there should be some sound absorbing material to protect your hearing).
You then wear those (after plugging other end to AVR) and sit in each listening position while Audyssey does it's thing..
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post #960 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 04:35 PM
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Exactly. I had mentioned at some point that we should actualy have headset instead of mic from Audyssey, in that it has mics outside those ear muffs (instead of speakers inside there should be some sound absorbing material to protect your hearing).
You then wear those (after plugging other end to AVR) and sit in each listening position while Audyssey does it's thing..

That's a pretty funny mental image, as well. I'm thinking of a winter hat style with the earmuffs, but I'm sure there could be higher-tech looking versions. I'm a little bit concerned, though, about the close mic patterns for a single listening position. I think you could just lean to the left or right by 12" or so, but now the mics wouldn't be pointed directly at the ceiling. Do you think that would be a problem?
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