"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13492Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #961 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 05:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 1,237
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 720 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Exactly. I had mentioned at some point that we should actualy have headset instead of mic from Audyssey, in that it has mics outside those ear muffs (instead of speakers inside there should be some sound absorbing material to protect your hearing).
You then wear those (after plugging other end to AVR) and sit in each listening position while Audyssey does it's thing..
Head proximity to mic would compromise results in similar way as if you would put mic too near to back of a chair.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #962 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 05:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That's a pretty funny mental image, as well. I'm thinking of a winter hat style with the earmuffs, but I'm sure there could be higher-tech looking versions. I'm a little bit concerned, though, about the close mic patterns for a single listening position. I think you could just lean to the left or right by 12" or so, but now the mics wouldn't be pointed directly at the ceiling. Do you think that would be a problem?
For a single listener calibration, what is needed is the "Audyssey Carousel." A large doughnut shaped turntable would hang from the hat, with the audiophile's head in the doughnut hole. The microphone would aim straight at the ceiling, and rotate around the head, pausing in each of the 8 calibration positions to "listen" to the pings. The turntable and all other parts would be covered with fluffy and absorbent cloth. I will now go to my "Overthinkers Anonymous" meeting.
garygarrison is offline  
post #963 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 05:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
For a single listener calibration, what is needed is the "Audyssey Carousel." A large doughnut shaped turntable would hang from the hat, with the audiophile's head in the doughnut hole. The microphone would aim straight at the ceiling, and rotate around the head, pausing in each of the 8 calibration positions to "listen" to the pings. The turntable and all other parts would be covered with fluffy and absorbent cloth. I will now go to my "Overthinkers Anonymous" meeting.

I like it! I think there would need to be a gyroscopic feature built into the carousel to avoid hitting the chair back, with a tilt module to realign the mics to the ceiling, but I definitely think we are closing in on a workable and practical solution.
garygarrison likes this.
mthomas47 is online now  
 
post #964 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:16 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the beach in Quintana Roo
Posts: 26,293
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Head proximity to mic would compromise results in similar way as if you would put mic too near to back of a chair.
Hmmm, if we could only detach our ears and listen from a few feet away.

Jeff
garygarrison likes this.

"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." W. Gibson

"I like the future, I'm in it." F. Theater
pepar is online now  
post #965 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audiofan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,940
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1886 Post(s)
Liked: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
I am trying mightily to not let that image enter my head.
As I proof read my post I said to myself "Na its fine" I was going to delete it but I'll keep it up instead! No pun
audiofan1 is offline  
post #966 of 3816 Old 08-11-2016, 11:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audiofan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,940
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1886 Post(s)
Liked: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
For a single listener calibration, what is needed is the "Audyssey Carousel." A large doughnut shaped turntable would hang from the hat, with the audiophile's head in the doughnut hole. The microphone would aim straight at the ceiling, and rotate around the head, pausing in each of the 8 calibration positions to "listen" to the pings. The turntable and all other parts would be covered with fluffy and absorbent cloth. I will now go to my "Overthinkers Anonymous" meeting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I like it! I think there would need to be a gyroscopic feature built into the carousel to avoid hitting the chair back, with a tilt module to realign the mics to the ceiling, but I definitely think we are closing in on a workable and practical solution.
Only problem I see with that idea is if one has a rather large head , there would be noway to get a tight spacing for the mic positions and not only that but do to the sheer size of a larger head and a single speed for the carousel would some calibrations take longer than others
this needs be hammered out before I plunk down any coin
mthomas47 and garygarrison like this.
audiofan1 is offline  
post #967 of 3816 Old 08-12-2016, 03:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe, Croatia
Posts: 1,237
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 720 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Hmmm, if we could only detach our ears and listen from a few feet away.

Jeff
Look no further mister!


Revel Ultima Salon 2, Revel M106, Revel C208, Yamaha P5000S, Denon X5200, Panasonic 65" VT50, SVS PC13-Ultra
Kef LS50, Parasound New Classic, Focusrite 2i2
donktard is offline  
post #968 of 3816 Old 08-12-2016, 04:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Toxic teletubby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 400
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Look no further mister!

Where do I get these and how much?

Marantz SR6010 Onkyo 636 Onkyo NR801
Epson 3700 Sammy 55JS7000 Sammy K8500 Toshiba HD DVD Sony UBP-X800
Fusion 8's -JBL Studio Monitor 4406 - B&W 602's - B&W center BIC F12 Sub
TruAudio Revolve 8" - atmos
Fluance bipoles for rears
Toxic teletubby is offline  
post #969 of 3816 Old 08-14-2016, 08:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,333
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Not sure if this is right thread to post in, but for Denon and Marantz AVRs featuring Audyssey what slope does the LPF for LFE setting use?

Is it 12dB per octave or 24dB per octave?
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #970 of 3816 Old 08-14-2016, 09:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Not sure if this is right thread to post in, but for Denon and Marantz AVRs featuring Audyssey what slope does the LPF for LFE setting use?

Is it 12dB per octave or 24dB per octave?

Hi,

I have never seen the slope specified, but in the FAQ, Roger Dressler made the assumption that the LPF was a fourth-order filter (so 24db per octave). I would always be happy to go with his speculation in the absence of any hard information to the contrary.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
post #971 of 3816 Old 08-14-2016, 09:25 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,333
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I have never seen the slope specified, but in the FAQ, Roger Dressler made the assumption that the LPF was a fourth-order filter (so 24db per octave). I would always be happy to go with his speculation in the absence of any hard information to the contrary.

Regards,
Mike
ok, thanks

-7.1ch Bedroom HT-
Samsung UN46EH6030
Yamaha RX-A2070
SVS Prime Bookshelf and Prime Center
Sony SS-CS5 Surrounds and Cambridge S20 Rear Surrounds
Rythmik LV12R
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #972 of 3816 Old 08-16-2016, 01:32 PM
Newbie
 
dalumart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Adyssey Issues Help Please

HI everyone, I need some help with a question/issue that is bugging me a bit.
Receiver: Denon AVRX3300W
Fronts: Infinity RS10
Sub: infinity Alpha1200
Center: Infinity CC-3
Surround and Back : Infinity OWS1

I just replaced my Onkyo TX-SR876 with the Denon AVRX3300W. The onkyo’s HDMI was cutting on and off and I had already replaced the capacitors twice, so I don’t want to deal with it anymore.
I ran the Audyssey multiple times and I am puzzled by the results. My infinity front speakers have powered woofers and the speakers are rated down to 28 Hz but the Audyssey is setting the cross over to 250 Hz. The center is also small but crossed over at 40 . The other surround speakers are being set to 100. All are “small” and I am setting the LPF for the sub to 120 as recommended.
When I was using the Onkyo receiver, Audyssey would recognize the fronts as large and would set the crossover to 40, and the rest of the speakers set as small but were being crossed over at 80. Off course I would set them all to small and change the crossover to 80.
Nothing has changed in the room other than the receiver. My concern is that if the fronts are being crossed at 250 and the Sub is getting everything below 120, what is happening to the frequencies between 120 and 250 in the front speakers. Am I loosing all those frequencies?. I know I am not to change the front crossover to less than 250 because corrections are only applied to 250. But is there a way to have Audyssey set the crossover at 80 so it applies corrections. Any input or advise would be highly appreciated. Thank you and happy listening
dalumart is offline  
post #973 of 3816 Old 08-16-2016, 03:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,993
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5142 Post(s)
Liked: 3836
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalumart View Post
HI everyone, I need some help with a question/issue that is bugging me a bit.
Receiver: Denon AVRX3300W
Fronts: Infinity RS10
Sub: infinity Alpha1200
Center: Infinity CC-3
Surround and Back : Infinity OWS1

I just replaced my Onkyo TX-SR876 with the Denon AVRX3300W. The onkyo’s HDMI was cutting on and off and I had already replaced the capacitors twice, so I don’t want to deal with it anymore.
I ran the Audyssey multiple times and I am puzzled by the results. My infinity front speakers have powered woofers and the speakers are rated down to 28 Hz but the Audyssey is setting the cross over to 250 Hz. The center is also small but crossed over at 40 . The other surround speakers are being set to 100. All are “small” and I am setting the LPF for the sub to 120 as recommended.
When I was using the Onkyo receiver, Audyssey would recognize the fronts as large and would set the crossover to 40, and the rest of the speakers set as small but were being crossed over at 80. Off course I would set them all to small and change the crossover to 80.
Nothing has changed in the room other than the receiver. My concern is that if the fronts are being crossed at 250 and the Sub is getting everything below 120, what is happening to the frequencies between 120 and 250 in the front speakers. Am I loosing all those frequencies?. I know I am not to change the front crossover to less than 250 because corrections are only applied to 250. But is there a way to have Audyssey set the crossover at 80 so it applies corrections. Any input or advise would be highly appreciated. Thank you and happy listening
How do you have the fronts connected? Are you running the sub out from the AVR to the powered sub in the mains?? If so, that is not recommended.

If not, I have no idea why Audyssey would set the crossover so high. However, you are not losing anything. The LPF that you have set at 120hz is the "LPF for LFE" (Low Pass Filter for the Low Frequency Effects channel). This only determines the top limit for the LFE channel, and should be set to 120hz.

As it stands now, with your mains being crossed over at 250hz, everything below that is being sent to the sub. You aren't "missing" any frequencies.

However, you need to figure out why Audyssey is calibrating them that way. I suspect a wiring issue with the powered subs.
Alan P is offline  
post #974 of 3816 Old 08-16-2016, 04:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalumart View Post
HI everyone, I need some help with a question/issue that is bugging me a bit.
Receiver: Denon AVRX3300W
Fronts: Infinity RS10
Sub: infinity Alpha1200
Center: Infinity CC-3
Surround and Back : Infinity OWS1

I just replaced my Onkyo TX-SR876 with the Denon AVRX3300W. The onkyo’s HDMI was cutting on and off and I had already replaced the capacitors twice, so I don’t want to deal with it anymore.
I ran the Audyssey multiple times and I am puzzled by the results. My infinity front speakers have powered woofers and the speakers are rated down to 28 Hz but the Audyssey is setting the cross over to 250 Hz. The center is also small but crossed over at 40 . The other surround speakers are being set to 100. All are “small” and I am setting the LPF for the sub to 120 as recommended.
When I was using the Onkyo receiver, Audyssey would recognize the fronts as large and would set the crossover to 40, and the rest of the speakers set as small but were being crossed over at 80. Off course I would set them all to small and change the crossover to 80.
Nothing has changed in the room other than the receiver. My concern is that if the fronts are being crossed at 250 and the Sub is getting everything below 120, what is happening to the frequencies between 120 and 250 in the front speakers. Am I loosing all those frequencies?. I know I am not to change the front crossover to less than 250 because corrections are only applied to 250. But is there a way to have Audyssey set the crossover at 80 so it applies corrections. Any input or advise would be highly appreciated. Thank you and happy listening
Hi,

I am having a little trouble finding your speakers. I found two Infinity RS10's. One was a small bookshelf speaker made in the 1980's, and the other appears to be a tower speaker made in 1998. Neither had a separate powered woofer. Apparently Infinity really likes that model #. Can you direct us to the appropriate speaker?

Following up on Alan's post, it doesn't sound as if your woofers are registering at all to the Audyssey mic, perhaps due to a connection issue.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
post #975 of 3816 Old 08-17-2016, 04:28 PM
Newbie
 
dalumart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
How do you have the fronts connected? Are you running the sub out from the AVR to the powered sub in the mains?? If so, that is not recommended.

If not, I have no idea why Audyssey would set the crossover so high. However, you are not losing anything. The LPF that you have set at 120hz is the "LPF for LFE" (Low Pass Filter for the Low Frequency Effects channel). This only determines the top limit for the LFE channel, and should be set to 120hz.

As it stands now, with your mains being crossed over at 250hz, everything below that is being sent to the sub. You aren't "missing" any frequencies.

However, you need to figure out why Audyssey is calibrating them that way. I suspect a wiring issue with the powered subs.
Thanks Alan,
Problem solved... I did not have the receivers sub out connected to the built in powered sub in the speakers, but I had forgotten to switch the speaker's amp from "line in" to "speakers" because that is how I was running them with the onkyo. I am not sure why I did not think of checking it.... it is such an obvious diagnosis. The 10 inch woofers were not getting any signal because the amp was set wrong. Your post made me double check and now everything works as its supposed to. Audyssey sees the speakers at full range. But I am going to cross them at 80, or do you think I should cross them lower since they are rated to 28 Hz. would that increase the base I am getting?
Alan P likes this.
dalumart is offline  
post #976 of 3816 Old 08-17-2016, 05:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
The usual advice is to start with 80Hz and get used to how things sound for a while. Then, with that standard setting as a benchmark, I would probably experiment with a 60Hz crossover, just to see if it increases your mid-bass (50hz to 100Hz) chest punch a little. That works pretty well in my system.

As a general rule, though, I probably wouldn't recommend going below 60Hz. A pretty good rule of thumb is to set your crossovers about 1 octave higher than the F3 point of your speakers. So, with about a 30Hz low-end response, I probably wouldn't go below 60Hz for my crossover. That will keep most of the bass below 60Hz in the sub, which has a more powerful amplifier, and a bigger cabinet.

But, you can always experiment to find out what you like.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #977 of 3816 Old 08-17-2016, 10:39 PM
Newbie
 
dalumart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I am having a little trouble finding your speakers. I found two Infinity RS10's. One was a small bookshelf speaker made in the 1980's, and the other appears to be a tower speaker made in 1998. Neither had a separate powered woofer. Apparently Infinity really likes that model #. Can you direct us to the appropriate speaker?

Following up on Alan's post, it doesn't sound as if your woofers are registering at all to the Audyssey mic, perhaps due to a connection issue.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike....

I know it is hard to get info on this speaker. I paid $1600 for the pair back in early 1999. I auditioned them along side some Polk RT2000 and some Acoustic Research AR3 and I really liked how much cleaner the infinity sounded. They still sound great today. I have those other speaker models written on the brochure that I keep with the manual and the receipt. All I can tell you from my manual is: cabinet is 45”x8”x17” ported 10” subs with 175 watt amps subs in each speaker, two 5 ¼ “ mids and one 1” dome tweeter located between the two 5 ¼. Can handle 200 watts and has a frequency response of 28-20000 Hz. Thanks again.
mthomas47 likes this.
dalumart is offline  
post #978 of 3816 Old 08-17-2016, 10:42 PM
Newbie
 
dalumart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
The usual advice is to start with 80Hz and get used to how things sound for a while. Then, with that standard setting as a benchmark, I would probably experiment with a 60Hz crossover, just to see if it increases your mid-bass (50hz to 100Hz) chest punch a little. That works pretty well in my system.

As a general rule, though, I probably wouldn't recommend going below 60Hz. A pretty good rule of thumb is to set your crossovers about 1 octave higher than the F3 point of your speakers. So, with about a 30Hz low-end response, I probably wouldn't go below 60Hz for my crossover. That will keep most of the bass below 60Hz in the sub, which has a more powerful amplifier, and a bigger cabinet.

But, you can always experiment to find out what you like.
Thanks again. Happy listening.
dalumart is offline  
post #979 of 3816 Old 08-18-2016, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalumart View Post
Thanks again. Happy listening.
You are very welcome! Those sound like nice speakers. Once you have had a chance to experiment a little, I would be interested in your impressions of how things sound with different crossovers.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #980 of 3816 Old 08-18-2016, 07:30 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the beach in Quintana Roo
Posts: 26,293
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked: 552
FWIW, I move my crossovers "up" to free up power/headroom on my main amp. My subs can certainly handle above 80 and having those frequencies originate from my more or less strategically located subs, with respect to room modes, produces less "chaos."
D Bone likes this.

"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." W. Gibson

"I like the future, I'm in it." F. Theater
pepar is online now  
post #981 of 3816 Old 08-18-2016, 08:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
FWIW, I move my crossovers "up" to free up power/headroom on my main amp. My subs can certainly handle above 80 and having those frequencies originate from my more or less strategically located subs, with respect to room modes, produces less "chaos."
I thought I remembered you saying something like that. I believe that Alan likes to set even higher than necessary crossovers, to put as much load on his subs as possible, perhaps for reasons somewhat similar to yours. In my particular case, I am running four of my large well-distributed speakers, with a 60Hz crossover, and seem to get some extra mid-bass without introducing any negatives. But I am going to change my subs around, and add something in my system in a few weeks, and it will be time for some more experimentation.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #982 of 3816 Old 08-18-2016, 09:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 9,993
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5142 Post(s)
Liked: 3836
I'm running a 120hz crossover because I have a whole bunch of big subs, might as well make them do the heavy lifting.

Because of my room setup and the PSA speakers roll-off at about 80hz, my mains really don't supply a whole lot of bass so the subs are needed to "fill in".
Alan P is offline  
post #983 of 3816 Old 08-18-2016, 03:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
FWIW, I move my crossovers "up" to free up power/headroom on my main amp. My subs can certainly handle above 80 and having those frequencies originate from my more or less strategically located subs, with respect to room modes, produces less "chaos."
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
... In my particular case, I am running four of my large well-distributed speakers, with a 60Hz crossover, and seem to get some extra mid-bass without introducing any negatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I'm running a 120hz crossover because I have a whole bunch of big subs, might as well make them do the heavy lifting.
To me, all this depends on whether the main speakers or the sub(s), given the amps, sub locations, etc., sound better in a certain range of frequencies. In my case, my mains sound tighter, cleaner, and more precise than my sub through the mid and high bass. An 80 Hz crossover works well for me. I have tried higher crossovers, especially with a couple of problem movies that needed a great deal more bass punch in the music (e.g., How the West Was Won), and for these, a higher crossover allowed me to get that punch by raising the crossover and turning up the sub-out trim on the pre-pro. I also tried a higher crossover on some other program material, but it simply increased the muddy sound and the chaos.

Chaos is where you find it.
mthomas47 likes this.
garygarrison is offline  
post #984 of 3816 Old 08-19-2016, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
To me, all this depends on whether the main speakers or the sub(s), given the amps, sub locations, etc., sound better in a certain range of frequencies. In my case, my mains sound tighter, cleaner, and more precise than my sub through the mid and high bass. An 80 Hz crossover works well for me. I have tried higher crossovers, especially with a couple of problem movies that needed a great deal more bass punch in the music (e.g., How the West Was Won), and for these, a higher crossover allowed me to get that punch by raising the crossover and turning up the sub-out trim on the pre-pro. I also tried a higher crossover on some other program material, but it simply increased the muddy sound and the chaos.

Chaos is where you find it.

I keep looking at this sentence, and I'm sorry, but I can't resist. Chaos is a ladder!

If you don't watch HBO, nevermind.
garygarrison likes this.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #985 of 3816 Old 08-19-2016, 10:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 22,745
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2476 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
I have a Denon AVR-X5200W receiver (2014 model) with Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. (Thanks for the correction, pepar.) It's a Dolby Atmos system with all 7.1.4 channels running from the Atmos receiver. I like Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ and hope to be able to continue using them.

However, for reasons too complicated to explain here, it's imperative that I find a way to program the receiver so that all four height channels have 100% identical EQ. Even if that means turning off EQ to those channels, that's fine, but they must be identical.

As far as I can tell, there's no way to do this while still applying Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ to the other channels. Once it's turned on, Audyssey doesn't allow any manual adjustments, beyond switching between the Flat and Reference curves.

If I turn Audyssey off, the receiver has a Graphic EQ feature where I can manually tweak channels individually, but it's a pretty crude graphic equalizer and apparently doesn't copy all of Audyssey's filters. Nor would I be able to use Dynamic EQ.

Audyssey experts, is there any way to trick Audyssey into applying identical EQ to all four height channels?

I had a crazy idea about temporarily rewiring all my height channels to connect to just one of the speakers, and then running another Audyssey calc. Would Audyssey measure all the channels the same and assign them identical EQ settings?

My gut feeling is that this wouldn't actually work. Even played back through the same speaker, the microphone would still measure slight differences in each test tone and assign different EQ. Or perhaps the receiver's assumption of where the speaker is in the room plays into Audyssey's calculation?

I know, somebody's going to suggest that I just try it and see what happens, but it seems like a lot of effort for something that may be doomed to failure.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.


Last edited by Josh Z; 08-20-2016 at 05:27 AM.
Josh Z is online now  
post #986 of 3816 Old 08-19-2016, 11:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Milky Way
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
... it's imperative that I find a way to program the receiver so that all four height channels have 100% identical EQ. Even if that means turning off EQ to those channels, that's fine, but they must be identical..
I'm confused. Do you mean:
  1. 100% identical electronic EQ applied to the speakers OR
  2. 100% identical acoustical result of the electronic EQ in the room
Since the 4 height speakers in question are in slightly different parts of the room, I would think that having 100% identical electronic EQ applied would be a bad idea. The four speakers would not then sound the same, although they might sound similar. If you mean (number 2) that the in-room result should be the same, then running Audyssey in the normal way should get them about as close as they are going to get.


Or do I not understand you?


I agree that the graphic equalizer is crude, and the copy function is so bad that Chris K. of Audyssey called it "useless," If I remember correctly.
garygarrison is offline  
post #987 of 3816 Old 08-20-2016, 04:54 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the beach in Quintana Roo
Posts: 26,293
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked: 552
Hi Josh,

Your Denon actually has Audyssey MultEQ XT32. And it is MultEQ Pro Installer Ready.

I am not certain exactly what you are asking as we don't have your complicated back story, but with a Pro kit, you could assign the identical TARGET curve to the four Height channels. That isn't quite the same as them having identical EQ, but it more or less means that they will sound the same.

Jeff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I have a Denon AVR-X5200W receiver (2014 model) with Audyssey MultiEQ XT. It's a Dolby Atmos system with all 7.1.4 channels running from the Atmos receiver. I like Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ and hope to be able to continue using them.

However, for reasons too complicated to explain here, it's imperative that I find a way to program the receiver so that all four height channels have 100% identical EQ. Even if that means turning off EQ to those channels, that's fine, but they must be identical.

As far as I can tell, there's no way to do this while still applying Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ to the other channels. Once it's turned on, Audyssey doesn't allow any manual adjustments, beyond switching between the Flat and Reference curves.

If I turn Audyssey off, the receiver has a Graphic EQ feature where I can manually tweak channels individually, but it's a pretty crude graphic equalizer and apparently doesn't copy all of Audyssey's filters. Nor would I be able to use Dynamic EQ.

Audyssey experts, is there any way to trick Audyssey into applying identical EQ to all four height channels?

I had a crazy idea about temporarily rewiring all my height channels to connect to just one of the speakers, and then running another Audyssey calc. Would Audyssey measure all the channels the same and assign them identical EQ settings?

My gut feeling is that this wouldn't actually work. Even played back through the same speaker, the microphone would still measure slight differences in each test tone and assign different EQ. Or perhaps the receiver's assumption of where the speaker is in the room plays into Audyssey's calculation?

I know, somebody's going to suggest that I just try it and see what happens, but it seems like a lot of effort for something that may be doomed to failure.

"The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." W. Gibson

"I like the future, I'm in it." F. Theater
pepar is online now  
post #988 of 3816 Old 08-20-2016, 05:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,793
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3402 Post(s)
Liked: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I have a Denon AVR-X5200W receiver (2014 model) with Audyssey MultiEQ XT. It's a Dolby Atmos system with all 7.1.4 channels running from the Atmos receiver. I like Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ and hope to be able to continue using them.

However, for reasons too complicated to explain here, it's imperative that I find a way to program the receiver so that all four height channels have 100% identical EQ. Even if that means turning off EQ to those channels, that's fine, but they must be identical.

As far as I can tell, there's no way to do this while still applying Audyssey room correction and Dynamic EQ to the other channels. Once it's turned on, Audyssey doesn't allow any manual adjustments, beyond switching between the Flat and Reference curves.

If I turn Audyssey off, the receiver has a Graphic EQ feature where I can manually tweak channels individually, but it's a pretty crude graphic equalizer and apparently doesn't copy all of Audyssey's filters. Nor would I be able to use Dynamic EQ.

Audyssey experts, is there any way to trick Audyssey into applying identical EQ to all four height channels?

I had a crazy idea about temporarily rewiring all my height channels to connect to just one of the speakers, and then running another Audyssey calc. Would Audyssey measure all the channels the same and assign them identical EQ settings?

My gut feeling is that this wouldn't actually work. Even played back through the same speaker, the microphone would still measure slight differences in each test tone and assign different EQ. Or perhaps the receiver's assumption of where the speaker is in the room plays into Audyssey's calculation?

I know, somebody's going to suggest that I just try it and see what happens, but it seems like a lot of effort for something that may be doomed to failure.
Hi,

I just have a couple of follow-up thoughts to the good ones already expressed above. First, turning off all EQ to your four height speakers wouldn't necessarily make them sound the same. Each speaker would still interact with the room in its own unique way. They might sound more similar with Audyssey off, or they might sound even less similar. You could certainly experiment, but even if you were willing to lose Audyssey for all the other channels, I don't think you could achieve the objective of identical sound from all four speakers at four different locations. Audyssey should actually get you closer to that, instead of further away from it.

Second, I don't believe that temporarily wiring 4 speakers into one channel and running the 75Hz test tone would work. It would completely mess-up the distance and trim settings, even if the calibration ran, and the EQ were set. And then, even if you manually reset the distances by measured location, and the levels by ear, the EQ still wouldn't work properly, IMO. My instinctive thought is that it would be a mess, with Audyssey trying to assign the same filters to four different speakers at four different locations.

Although it's a clever idea for a workaround, I think there are reasons why you can EQ four subs as one, and not speakers. And it has to do with the difference in frequency range. Of course, if there is something about the way that XT-32 set the levels of those 4 speakers that you don't like, that is certainly something that you could adjust by ear. That to me seems a more likely culprit than differential EQ.

If you could go into a little detail on what the problem is with your current XT-32 calibration, it would help. I believe you when you say that the reasons for wanting to do this are complicated. But it can't be more complicated than trying to problem-solve a problem without being able to define it. I like problem-solving, but I'm in the dark on this one.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
post #989 of 3816 Old 08-20-2016, 05:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 22,745
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2476 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I'm confused. Do you mean:
  1. 100% identical electronic EQ applied to the speakers OR
  2. 100% identical acoustical result of the electronic EQ in the room
Since the 4 height speakers in question are in slightly different parts of the room, I would think that having 100% identical electronic EQ applied would be a bad idea. The four speakers would not then sound the same, although they might sound similar. If you mean (number 2) that the in-room result should be the same, then running Audyssey in the normal way should get them about as close as they are going to get.
I need these four channels to have the exact same settings applied inside the receiver. (Or, at the very least, I need the two speakers on the left side to have the same settings as each other, and the two speakers on the right side to have the same settings as each other.)

I'm willing to sacrifice the audible quality of these channels to get the same settings. Ideally, I think, I would just turn off EQ to those channels.

As I said, the reasoning behind why I'm making this strange request is complicated. It's being discussed in the following thread:

Beyond 7.1.4... Multi-AVR set-up for Immersive Audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
I am not certain exactly what you are asking as we don't have your complicated back story, but with a Pro kit, you could assign the identical TARGET curve to the four Height channels. That isn't quite the same as them having identical EQ, but it more or less means that they will sound the same.
I don't think setting the same target curve would be sufficient, unfortunately. I need the actual numerical values in the receiver to be identical.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is online now  
post #990 of 3816 Old 08-20-2016, 08:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 3,823
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1703 Post(s)
Liked: 619
Does Audyssey disables itself, if you set center to "none" (and it is and was actually present during Audyssey run).
I just want to temporarily enable or disable the center and want to know if Audyssey will be lost in this process.
aaranddeeman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off