"Official" Audyssey thread Part II - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Yeah, GIK was the one to suggest placing traps there because of where the couch is and being broadband it would help with all frequencies. So far it has helped I think just how I have them. When watching a bass heavy movie the bass is more spread out vs before my wife would complain it would hurt her ears with the pressure.

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Panels look great you could try lowering them and see how they sound with Audyssey off , keep in mind though you don't want to completely deaden the sound as that almost worse than bloated bad bass. I can see why GIK recommended placing them there
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post #1022 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 09:27 AM
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Panels look great you could try lowering them and see how they sound with Audyssey off , keep in mind though you don't want to completely deaden the sound as that almost worse than bloated bad bass. I can see why GIK recommended placing them there
Thank you. The room seems to sound better were the panels are right now. The bass especially seems more spread out. I'm just now second guessing since others have said to move them down more.

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post #1023 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 09:34 AM
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Thank you. The room seems to sound better were the panels are right now. The bass especially seems more spread out. I'm just now second guessing since others have said to move them down more.

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Trust me! Having those panels to close to your ears will be disconcerting, as its a sonic blackhole If you able to move the mlp up a feet or two then try dropping them down a foot or so! Most don't realize panels can require critical placement as well and not just slapping them on the wall. I found my 7" GIK Monster bass trap(rear corner of the room) and one 4" Bass trap (7 ft behing the mlp) work best when above 20" from the floor to a lot of holes and patching and painting but they are fine tuned but I'm someone who can sweat the little things
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post #1024 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 09:39 AM
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Trust me! Having those panels to close to your ears will be disconcerting, as its a sonic blackhole If you able to move the mlp up a feet or two then try dropping them down a foot or so! Most don't realize panels can require critical placement as well and not just slapping them on the wall. I found my 7" GIK Monster bass trap(rear corner of the room) and one 4" Bass trap (7 ft behing the mlp) work best when above 20" from the floor to a lot of holes and patching and painting but they are fine tuned but I'm someone who can sweat the little things
I'll see if I can try that. The issue is the couch is on tile and when someone sits it slides back. I might cut out a rubber pad(like the ones I used to stack the KK subs) and place them underneath each leg and see if it keeps from moving.

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post #1025 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Yeah, GIK was the one to suggest placing traps there because of where the couch is and being broadband it would help with all frequencies. So far it has helped I think just how I have them. When watching a bass heavy movie the bass is more spread out vs before my wife would complain it would hurt her ears with the pressure.

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It's amazing how much bass traps helped my room. I agree with audiofan that the panels look really good there. The color is a nice match for the sofa, too. If you could inch them down a little closer to the sofa, and pull the sofa out even a foot or so from the wall, I believe you could further improve your sound, not so much more in the bass frequencies, but in the higher frequencies. It's worth a try anyway.
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post #1026 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 01:18 PM
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It's amazing how much bass traps helped my room. I agree with audiofan that the panels look really good there. The color is a nice match for the sofa, too. If you could inch them down a little closer to the sofa, and pull the sofa out even a foot or so from the wall, I believe you could further improve your sound, not so much more in the bass frequencies, but in the higher frequencies. It's worth a try anyway.
Thanks for the compliment.I'll try that

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post #1027 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 01:24 PM
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It's amazing how much bass traps helped my room. I agree with audiofan that the panels look really good there. The color is a nice match for the sofa, too. If you could inch them down a little closer to the sofa, and pull the sofa out even a foot or so from the wall, I believe you could further improve your sound, not so much more in the bass frequencies, but in the higher frequencies. It's worth a try anyway.
For me it was a tossup between the first reflection point absorbers ... lead, unexpectedly, by the one on the back wall .. and the SSC-style bass traps. Thinking about my room dims, the rear absorber attenuated a reflection delayed by 12ms. That is in the confusion zone, while the front L&R and ceiling absorbers knock down reflections in the blurr zone.
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post #1028 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 02:28 PM
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The way that Audyssey EQ's multiple subs has always been very confusing. It was confusing before Chris clarified how it works, and it is still confusing now. I am going to post a comment I made, and then the response, and I would like to get some additional opinions on this. I don't believe that Audyssey can EQ two subs with different capabilities, no matter how they are connected, without immediately "hearing" and identifying the F3 point of the lesser sub, and stopping the EQ at that F3 point of the lesser sub.
Thank you for this. I actually also have unequal subs connected. (I can't afford to upgrade one of them yet.) This may explain why bass seemed to improve a little when I turned Audyssey off.

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post #1029 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 03:17 PM
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Thank you for this. I actually also have unequal subs connected. (I can't afford to upgrade one of them yet.) This may explain why bass seemed to improve a little when I turned Audyssey off.
The takeaway I got from Chris' post was that adding a "lesser" sub DECREASES system performance and that the system is better off without the additional sub.
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post #1030 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 03:28 PM
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Thank you for this. I actually also have unequal subs connected. (I can't afford to upgrade one of them yet.) This may explain why bass seemed to improve a little when I turned Audyssey off.

You are welcome! I understood Chris to be saying the same thing that Jeff did. But empirical observation didn't seem to bear out what he was saying, and it's possible that he slightly misspoke. It appears that Audyssey simply stops EQing at the detected F3 point of the less capable sub. Whether that has a meaningful effect on the EQ, and on the resulting sound quality, would probably be very room and system dependent.

For instance, in a room with four capable subs, and one MBM, the native FR might be good enough that Audyssey wouldn't really need to EQ below about 50Hz. But, with only two subs of very unequal capabilities, I think it would be a dicey proposition to lose EQ below the F3 point of the less capable sub. So, who knows? I wonder if you couldn't run the less capable sub nearfield, as a way to move it into slightly better correspondence with the more capable one?
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post #1031 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 04:26 PM
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You are welcome! I understood Chris to be saying the same thing that Jeff did. But empirical observation didn't seem to bear out what he was saying, and it's possible that he slightly misspoke. It appears that Audyssey simply stops EQing at the detected F3 point of the less capable sub. Whether that has a meaningful effect on the EQ, and on the resulting sound quality, would probably be very room and system dependent."

"I'm a little confused by what you are suggesting with the Y-splitter. My understanding of how Audyssey works is that whether you have two subs connected to one AVR sub channel, or whether you use Sub 1 and Sub 2, the end result will be the same from an EQ perspective. All SubEQ with the two separate channels does is to set timing and levels separately. But no matter how the subs are physically connected, if Audyssey plays a test tone through them, it will detect the combined F3 point, and stop EQing at that point. And that's an intentional feature, to prevent Audyssey from inadvertently boosting a sub below its F3 point."

"No, in this case Audyssey will only see the two as single sub with the F3 point of the deeper sub."


I don't get the misspoke part. This seems clear: Timing and level are set at the individual pings step, and filters set from the subsequent unison measurement. Though there might have been some mis-speakin' going on if Audyssey detects the combined F3 ... which is below the lesser sub's F3.

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post #1032 of 3816 Old 08-24-2016, 05:25 PM
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"I'm a little confused by what you are suggesting with the Y-splitter. My understanding of how Audyssey works is that whether you have two subs connected to one AVR sub channel, or whether you use Sub 1 and Sub 2, the end result will be the same from an EQ perspective. All SubEQ with the two separate channels does is to set timing and levels separately. But no matter how the subs are physically connected, if Audyssey plays a test tone through them, it will detect the combined F3 point, and stop EQing at that point. And that's an intentional feature, to prevent Audyssey from inadvertently boosting a sub below its F3 point."

"No, in this case Audyssey will only see the two as single sub with the F3 point of the deeper sub."


I don't get the misspoke part. This seems clear: Timing and level are set at the individual pings step, and filters set from the subsequent unison measurement. Though there might have been some mis-speakin' going on if Audyssey detects the combined F3 ... which is below the lesser sub's F3.
Hi Jeff,

The conversation I quoted was with someone else on another thread. It wasn't with Chris. The person I was responding to thought he could trick Audyssey with a Y-connector. The place where I think Chris may have misspoken was in a Facebook conversation with Feri where Chris said that Audyssey might damage a weaker sub by trying to boost it below it's natural abilities.

That seems to be contradicted by a lengthy conversation from February of this year on Page 2643 of the Part I thread. In that conversation, a poster chronicled his more than year-long effort to get two sealed subs and two ported subs to work well together. I read a good part of his thread which showed his repeated measurement efforts. He discovered that no matter what he did, XT-32 simply quit EQing at the detected F3 point of the sealed subs, as they rolled-off well before the ported subs. That seems to be pretty conclusive evidence of the way Audyssey actually works.

My point on the other thread, which I repeated on the previous page for anyone interested, is that you can't trick Audyssey into not noticing a weaker sub, by using a Y-connector. Whether you have XT, with only one sub jack (and multiple subs operating from that single jack), or whether you have XT-32 with multiple subs on Sub 1/Sub 2, Audyssey seemingly measures the combined frequency response, and quits EQing at the detected point where a weaker sub drops out, causing a decrease in total SPL.

Both the empirical evidence of how Audyssey actually EQ's multiple subs, and Chris' statement contradict the earlier belief, that was in the FAQ, that Audyssey might impair the performance of a stronger sub by EQing it to conform with the performance of a weaker one. The empirical evidence doesn't support that proposition either.

There have been several conflicting theories on how Audyssey actually works with respect to mis-matched subs, and the FAQ may still suggest that Audyssey curtails the performance of a stronger sub. I don't recall right now. In a few cases on other threads, I have tried to alert people to the fact that they will be losing EQ below the F3 point of the weaker sub in a system, particularly with a sub with entirely different properties. It's a very confusing issue (hence the multiple theories), but until someone offers convincing evidence to the contrary, I'm going with the empirical evidence on this one, that Audyssey simply stops EQing at the F3 point of a weaker sub.

That is, incidentally, exactly the way that Audyssey sets crossovers for a speaker pair--protecting the weaker speaker by awarding a higher crossover to a pair, based on the detected roll-off point of the weaker one. FWIW, I believe that everyone else accepted the empirical evidence too, when this discussion originally occurred on the thread back in February, so I don't think that I am breaking any new ground with this--just refreshing our collective memories.

Regards,
Mike
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post #1033 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 09:37 AM
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There are ways to integrate multiple subs ... one guru (Welti?) even advocates dissimilar subs ... into a system. But it is done solely to improve LF performance not because the system owner can't afford identical subs. And the electronics and tweaking of same is such that any "savings" can be swamped. That said, a miniDSP 2x4 can be used relatively inexpensively (~$100) to integrate on up to four subs into a system and present the room correction process with a "single" sub. Certainly one would not want to combine a "sub" with a 40Hz F3 into a system with subs that go to 15Hz. But I'd be a 10Hz differential would hurt the "lesser" sub.

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post #1034 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 10:29 AM
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This notion of "hurting" the lesser sub seems bizarre to me. Wouldn't pretty much any subwoofer have limiters built-in to prevent it from exceeding its capabilities?

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post #1035 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 10:31 AM
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I know that Earl Geddes used to recommend this at one point, as an economical way to have good mid-bass performance. He really wasn't very concerned with sub-20Hz frequencies, or volume in the very low frequencies, and concentrated most of his interest in the 50hz range and up. And he did exactly what you said. He used a lot of external DSP to achieve a good frequency response.

He later backed off his position to some extent, agreeing that it actually made more sense to have three (his preferred minimum) full-range matching subs, rather than deliberately mis-matched ones. I might conceivably experiment with a mid-bass module if I really felt I needed one (I don't) but, in general, I prefer ways to simplify my life, and matching subs certainly do that. Like you, I suspect though, that the practical, audible impact of subs with only a few Hz difference in roll-off would be pretty modest.
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post #1036 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 10:44 AM
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This notion of "hurting" the lesser sub seems bizarre to me. Wouldn't pretty much any subwoofer have limiters built-in to prevent it from exceeding its capabilities?
I think that the Audyssey algorithm is specifically engineered to prevent that from happening, by not setting filters which could inadvertently boost a sub, below its measured F3 point. As far as I know, most of the better commercial subs, including all of the ID subs, do have built-in limiters, although some DIY subs do not.
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post #1037 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 01:16 PM
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I think that the Audyssey algorithm is specifically engineered to prevent that from happening, by not setting filters which could inadvertently boost a sub, below its measured F3 point. As far as I know, most of the better commercial subs, including all of the ID subs, do have built-in limiters, although some DIY subs do not.
Mike, if I may, I would also vote for two identical subs or no two subs. Putting a more capable and a less capable sub into the system just doesn't cut in for me. I know of people who can easily become insane of timre matching their satellites, yet will never understand why and how the same can be forgotten in the bass department. Wouldn't it be like putting different size tires on our cars? Now that would be a rough ride, eh?
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post #1038 of 3816 Old 08-25-2016, 01:20 PM
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Mike, if I may, I would also vote for two identical subs or no two subs. Putting a more capable and a less capable sub into the system just doesn't cut in for me. I know of people who can easily become insane of timre matching their satellites, yet will never understand why and how the same can be forgotten in the bass department. Wouldn't it be like putting different size tires on our cars? Now that would be a rough ride, eh?

I'm with you, Feri. My life is complicated enough already.
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post #1039 of 3816 Old 08-28-2016, 02:35 PM
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When setting up dual subs with Audyssey using SubEQ HT, do you set the phase on the two subs opposite of each other. i.e Sub1 set to 0 while sub32 set to 180.
or leave both at 0 and let Audyssey handle it?
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When setting up dual subs with Audyssey using SubEQ HT, do you set the phase on the two subs opposite of each other. i.e Sub1 set to 0 while sub32 set to 180.
or leave both at 0 and let Audyssey handle it?

Leave them the same.
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I think that the Audyssey algorithm is specifically engineered to prevent that from happening, by not setting filters which could inadvertently boost a sub, below its measured F3 point. As far as I know, most of the better commercial subs, including all of the ID subs, do have built-in limiters, although some DIY subs do not.
Errm, if we are talking multiple different subs, I think weaker one is definitely in a big trouble.
If I recall correctly (from trying out my 2 different subs at same time), audyssey starts calibration by checking levels of both subs and then starts to blast test signals. When test signal for subs starts, it starts for both subs at the same time, which means that F3 point that is detected is the one from strongest sub (the one with lowest F3 point). Of course...that doesn't necessarily mean that Audyssey will correct frequencies between F3 points of your subwoofers by boosting them...but if it does, your weaker sub might not like it. In my case...weaker sub regularly bottomed out and jumped around when pushed too much, but other then that weakness, I liked the overall improvement in performance with having two subs...but it would take additional tweaks to make it work properly without issues (for example miniDSP on weaker sub with low cut set at F3 point or maybe higher).

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post #1043 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 10:58 AM
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If I recall correctly (from trying out my 2 different subs at same time), audyssey starts calibration by checking levels of both subs and then starts to blast test signals. When test signal for subs starts, it starts for both subs at the same time, which means that F3 point that is detected is the one from strongest sub (the one with lowest F3 point).
Audyssey starts by checking the volume levels for both subs individually. During the first round of test tones at the primary microphone position, it plays three subwoofer tones, first for Sub 1, then Sub 2, then both together. During the next seven rounds at different mic positions, it only plays the combined tone with both subs together.

Whether this at all changes the conclusion you drew, I don't know. I'm just pointing out the order that the tones played when I ran Audyssey recently.

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post #1044 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 11:31 AM
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Audyssey starts by checking the volume levels for both subs individually. During the first round of test tones at the primary microphone position, it plays three subwoofer tones, first for Sub 1, then Sub 2, then both together. During the next seven rounds at different mic positions, it only plays the combined tone with both subs together.

Whether this at all changes the conclusion you drew, I don't know. I'm just pointing out the order that the tones played when I ran Audyssey recently.
Yeah it definitely changes my conclusion. I probably never caught that subs measure individually at any point.
So that just means that my weaker sub really sucks.

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post #1045 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 11:47 AM
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Errm, if we are talking multiple different subs, I think weaker one is definitely in a big trouble.
If I recall correctly (from trying out my 2 different subs at same time), audyssey starts calibration by checking levels of both subs and then starts to blast test signals. When test signal for subs starts, it starts for both subs at the same time, which means that F3 point that is detected is the one from strongest sub (the one with lowest F3 point). Of course...that doesn't necessarily mean that Audyssey will correct frequencies between F3 points of your subwoofers by boosting them...but if it does, your weaker sub might not like it. In my case...weaker sub regularly bottomed out and jumped around when pushed too much, but other then that weakness, I liked the overall improvement in performance with having two subs...but it would take additional tweaks to make it work properly without issues (for example miniDSP on weaker sub with low cut set at F3 point or maybe higher).

Hi,

I see that Josh responded, and that you said that your weaker sub might have really sucked, and I think that last point is an important one. It's certainly possible to push a weaker sub into clipping, by asking it to keep up at the same SPL as a stronger one, irrespective of any filters that Audyssey is setting. I just don't think that Audyssey EQ's below the F3 point of the weaker sub in a group, specifically to prevent Audyssey from being the culprit in the weaker sub clipping. I wrote this explanation of how I think (emphasis on think) Audyssey works, on another thread, so rather than rewrite it, I will just copy it to post here.

"Some versions of Audyssey (XT and down) have a single sub out. XT-32 has two sub outs. But regardless of whether you connect multiple subs via one sub out, or separate them into two sub outs, Audyssey EQ's the subs in exactly the same way.

The advantage of having two sub outs with XT-32 and SubEQ is that Audyssey automatically sets timing and trim levels separately for the subs connected to the two outs, which is particularly helpful with only two subs, but which can also be useful with multiples, depending on their placement. But Audyssey then EQ's all of the subs in the system as one, regardless of how they are connected.

If you are connecting subs to both subs outs, when you run an Audyssey calibration you will notice that after level matching is complete in XT-32, Audyssey starts the calibration process by playing a single test tone through each sub (or group of subs) separately. So, sub 1 gets a test tone (rumble) and then Sub 2 gets one. That single test tone is what Audyssey uses to set distances and levels separately for Sub 1 and for Sub 2. But the 7 test tones that follow mic position 1, are played through all subs in the system simultaneously. So, there is just one combined rumble from all your subs, however many you have. And, it is on the basis of that combined sound from the subs that the Audyssey filters are set. So, strictly from an EQ standpoint, it doesn't matter whether you use just one sub out or both.

All of the channels work the same way, incidentally. Each channel gets all 8 test tones, so that each channel can be EQed individually. But the sub channel (.1) is treated as a single channel, regardless of the number of subs in the system.

FWIW, there have been multiple theories, or explanations, advanced over the years for how Audyssey EQ's subs, particularly dissimilar subs. An early explanation which was prevalent on the Audyssey thread was that Audyssey would curtail the performance of the more powerful sub in a mixed group, by somehow limiting its output, and low-end extension, to conform to the low-end extension of the less capable sub. A later explanation was that Audyssey would simply keep EQing below the natural roll-off of the less-capable sub, thereby potentially endangering it via over-boosting it at frequencies it can't handle.

The problem with both explanations is that there is no measurable empirical evidence to support them. But there is empirical evidence from measurements that Audyssey stops EQing all subs, however connected, at the detected EQ point of the weakest sub. And from a detection standpoint, it's not a matter of how much additional sub gain is created by having multiple subs. It is purely a matter of what the Audyssey microphone "hears" when it plays test tones through multiple subs.

Let's say that you have two subs connected in tandem to a single sub out in the AVR. The subs are a Cap 1400, and an MBM with a natural 50Hz roll-off. And let's say that you have set the gains on the subs to produce a combined 75db at the MLP. Assuming a fairly smooth initial frequency response, when the test tones play, Audyssey measures 75db (+/-) at 120Hz, 75db at 90Hz, and 75db at 60Hz. But at about 50Hz, the combined SPL necessarily decreases as the MBM poops out.

And the Audyssey algorithm, which was sophisticated enough to ignore specific swings in frequency response at other points on the way down, observes the drop in SPL at the MBM's F3 point as reflective of a broad and final trend. Remember that the calibration which actually sets the filters is not performed until all test tones (8 if doing the full test suite with XT or XT-32) are completed, and the fuzzy logic weighting is performed. So, Audyssey can distinguish between a temporary drop in SPL, caused by a dip at a specific frequency, from a long-term trend observed at all mic positions. And it can set filters accordingly.

This seems to be exactly how Audyssey sets crossovers for the satellite channels, incidentally. It measures SPL throughout the frequency range, at all 8 mic positions, and then reports an F3 point for each speaker in a pair to the AVR, which sets the crossover based on the higher F3 point of a speaker pair. And that is specifically done to prevent Audyssey from setting filters below the F3 point of a weaker speaker in a pair (generally due to room placement--near an opening to another room, for instance). And that, in turn, prevents Audyssey from inadvertently trying to over-boost that positionally weaker speaker.

I think that the way Audyssey actually seems to work makes some sense, but at this point, it's not so much a question of logic, as it is of empirical observation. It has been observed that Audyssey stops EQing at the F3 point of a weaker sub, in a multi-sub system, no matter how the subs are physically connected. As long as Audyssey is actually playing test tones through the weaker sub, I don't currently see a way around this. Of course, we could deliberately set the gain on the weaker sub so low that it wasn't contributing anything to the total SPL, even at 120Hz. But to me, that would be like connecting the MBM, with a Y-connector, after the actual calibration. Audyssey would never know that we had added the extra sub. But there also wouldn't be any filters set for that MBM, based on it's actual contributions to the combined frequency response above 50Hz, even if were subsequently protected from damage below 50Hz by its internal bullet-proof processing. So, it's a bit of a quandary."

Someone on that other thread intends to run some tests this weekend, trying different configurations, to see whether it will make any difference in what Audyssey "hears" and how it EQ's dissimilar subs. He will be using two full-range subs, and two MBM's, so it should be a good test. I think I know what the tests will show, but we'll see.

Regards,
Mike
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Last edited by mthomas47; 08-29-2016 at 11:53 AM.
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post #1046 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 12:49 PM
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Guys, I need your help.

Denon AVR-x4000 + 5.1.

I made a measurements after Audyssey with REW: Dynamic Vol/EQ off manually (after calibration). Audyssey set all speakers as "large" (I do not know why).
1) 2.1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4e8y3ltvz...ge-40.jpg?dl=0
2) FL+FR (+SW) separately - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dv3rcqoc1...20SUB.jpg?dl=0
3) FL+FR (w/o SW) separately- https://www.dropbox.com/s/w68x6tk8tx...ub%29.jpg?dl=0

---
After that I set speakers as Small, crossover to 80Hz.

1) with SW https://www.dropbox.com/s/oglyzpc4i0sjcg6/FL%2BFR%2C…closedFI.jpg?dl=0
2) w/o SW https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9ojacgzrnc4uv2/FL%2BFR%2C…2C%20nSW.jpg?dl=0

Denon AVR x4000: B&W CM9 + B&W LCP600 + B&W DM600 S3 + B&W ASW-300
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post #1047 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstyle View Post
Guys, I need your help.

Denon AVR-x4000 + 5.1.

I made a measurements after Audyssey with REW: Dynamic Vol/EQ off manually (after calibration). Audyssey set all speakers as "large" (I do not know why).
1) 2.1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4e8y3ltvz...ge-40.jpg?dl=0
2) FL+FR (+SW) separately - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dv3rcqoc1...20SUB.jpg?dl=0
3) FL+FR (w/o SW) separately- https://www.dropbox.com/s/w68x6tk8tx...ub%29.jpg?dl=0

---
After that I set speakers as Small, crossover to 80Hz.

1) with SW https://www.dropbox.com/s/oglyzpc4i0sjcg6/FL%2BFR%2C…closedFI.jpg?dl=0
2) w/o SW https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9ojacgzrnc4uv2/FL%2BFR%2C…2C%20nSW.jpg?dl=0
Hi,

Welcome to the thread! Audyssey simply reports the F3 point of your speakers to your Denon, which set your speakers to Large based on its own internal algorithm. That just gives you information about your speakers capabilities. Just reset them to Small/80Hz, as you did.

It looks to me as if the scale on your graphs is off, making things look even worse than they really are. But offhand, it appears that you have a room null at about 55Hz, and a room mode at about 45Hz. Have you done a sub crawl yet to find the best placement for your sub?

Regards,
Mike
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post #1048 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 01:34 PM
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Thank you! How can I set a correct scale for your comfort?

I will try to move my SW to another position, maybe to the left wall (my room plan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5frh6fu9aqdnrry/room.jpg?dl=0 )

I think it would be better if Audyssey would use Small settings from begining

Also I am not satisfied with right front speaker graph - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dv3rcqoc1...20SUB.jpg?dl=0 Left front more linear.

Denon AVR x4000: B&W CM9 + B&W LCP600 + B&W DM600 S3 + B&W ASW-300

Last edited by sstyle; 08-29-2016 at 01:45 PM.
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post #1049 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sstyle View Post
Thank you! How can I set a correct scale for your comfort?

I will try to move my SW to another position, maybe to the left wall (my room plan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5frh6fu9aqdnrry/room.jpg?dl=0 )

I think it would be better it Audyssey use Small settings from begining

Also I am not satisfied with right front speaker graph - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dv3rcqoc1...20SUB.jpg?dl=0 Left front more linear.
Hi sstyle, for the time being my recommendation would be to forget about REW and all that measurement stuff. Here's what I would do.

1. Based on your room plan I'd move the front L&Rs a bit more apart and place the sub closer to the middle on the right side. In other words swap the sub with the front right speaker. Corner placement of a subwoofer can usually end up with unwanted boost of low frequencies due to "room gain" or "boundary gain" resulting in muddy, boomy, etc. sounds. Meantime, the increased distance between L&Rs can improve sound stage imaging.

2. Do a careful listening test, best is to listen to music well known to your ears. At this stage you may try to toe-in/toe-out front L&Rs, tilt center up or down to make it face seated ear height for improved dialog intelligibility (for movies), place surrounds above ears at about 1 meter or more for improved surround effect making sure they are about 100-110 degrees off-center and facing the MLP (Main Listening Position).

3. When all the above so-called "cold-setup" is finished you can run Audyssey to take care of remaining room acoustical issues.

4. For more help a couple of pictures of your setup would definitely make members here give you further advice.

Hope this helps.
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post #1050 of 3816 Old 08-29-2016, 02:19 PM
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Hi! Thank you for your view!

First of all here is a picture of my setup - https://imgur.com/a/N3Woj

I can put the SW inside right section of the tv stand for example, right?

Sure, I will try 2-3 points tomorrow.

Denon AVR x4000: B&W CM9 + B&W LCP600 + B&W DM600 S3 + B&W ASW-300
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