Yamaha 2040 vs. 2050 vs. 3040 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Yamaha 2040 vs. 2050 vs. 3040

I'm considering on these three (refurb from A4L) to use primarily as a pre/pro with the Outlaw 5000 that I have now.

I'm not yet sure I am returning the 975, but I probably will. Limited testing (in the process of moving, source material is limited to amazon firestick). 2ch sounds great with the 975/5000 but when I did a brief test with a movie the gain was very low. Even when cranked to -10 or higher, felt like something was missing and the output was still low. Less volume/spl than when playing music from the same source at -40, -35. Might have been the stream. Will play some bluray movies before making the decision final. Also the 975 seemed to restrict my listening mode to the signal it was getting, when I tried to select stereo it would not change modes. Might have been user error.

I do realize I probably don't need to keep the 5000 if I go with a Yamaha AVR, but I still like having a separate amp, and will likely have better power with 5 channels driven.

The reason I chose the 975 was for simplicity. I don't care about atmos or anything more than a 5.1 setup (but I do like the flexibility for more options in the future) I also won't be running 4k anytime soon. Happy enough with 1080. I will use the networking functionality and remote app. I will tinker with YPAO. If I do keep the 975, I'll probably get a mindsp so either way I have more cost in my future.
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Adding the 1050 to my list as it is cheaper and has preouts. Might be the right choice for me.

Any significant processing advantage or features with the 3040 vs. the 1050? Alternatives?

NO:
Denon/Marantz
NAD
Onkyo/Integra

I've had good experiences with Yamaha and bad with the no's I've listed, so I'm more or less decided but open to suggestion. Not so sure about Anthem, have read some concerning things. Otherwise I'd love to get a playfi enabled receiver...but that can be handled with an external device.
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post #3 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 02:10 PM
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I'm kinda going through the same type of decision between refurbished 40 & 50 series Aventage models. I don't really anticipate needing 4K anytime soon. I believe the 40 series does have some 4K capabilities, but I'm not real clear on what they are. I don't believe the 40 series has support for HDCP 2.2 or HDMI 2.0a. I'm not sure I'll need those features as I'm planning to run my last generation 1080p plasmas until they die, which I guess could happen anytime, in which case the 50 series would provide more future proofing. I also don't believe the 40 series has support for MusicCast, which again may never be used.

The refurbished 40 series are significantly cheaper in comparison, which I find appealing.
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I'm kinda going through the same type of decision between refurbished 40 & 50 series Aventage models. I don't really anticipate needing 4K anytime soon. I believe the 40 series does have some 4K capabilities, but I'm not real clear on what they are. I don't believe the 40 series has support for HDCP 2.2 or HDMI 2.0a. I'm not sure I'll need those features as I'm planning to run my last generation 1080p plasmas until they die, which I guess could happen anytime, in which case the 50 series would provide more future proofing. I also don't believe the 40 series has support for MusicCast, which again may never be used.

The refurbished 40 series are significantly cheaper in comparison, which I find appealing.
I agree, the 1040 on A4L is 599. Same basic functionality as the 1050. But if you plan to run 4k in the future, you will have to have HDMI 2.2. 2.0 can pass 4k signal, but 2.2 adds functionality to prevent illegal copying of 4k UHD content. So if you try to pass 4k content over HDMI 2.0 it will not work.

That's the catch....if you can live without 4k content, the 1040 would be a good choice for the money. Maybe can connect 4k player directly to the 4k TV with HDMI2.2, but use digital audio cable to connect to receiver?
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah. So folks like Samsung have already thought of this conundrum with 4k content:

"It includes two HDMI outputs for sending audio to your home theater receiver and video directly to your TV. That means you can still play sound through receivers that don't have a free HDMI input that's HDCP 2.2 compatible. You can also use an optical digital connection."

This is for the Samsung UBD-K8500 player.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_305BDK8...2183545&awdv=c

That settles it for me, no need to get a receiver that has 2.2. If I do ever upgrade (maybe when the TV breaks...) I'll be able to use 4k content regardless of the receiver.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-20-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkevind View Post
I agree, the 1040 on A4L is 599. Same basic functionality as the 1050. But if you plan to run 4k in the future, you will have to have HDMI 2.2. 2.0 can pass 4k signal, but 2.2 adds functionality to prevent illegal copying of 4k UHD content. So if you try to pass 4k content over HDMI 2.0 it will not work.

That's the catch....if you can live without 4k content, the 1040 would be a good choice for the money. Maybe can connect 4k player directly to the 4k TV with HDMI2.2, but use digital audio cable to connect to receiver?
I guess the ones I'm really looking at are the 3040 & 3050. Aside from a 5.1 system that I bought with a computer, things have changed dramatically since I last bought any home audio stuff. Everything was still two channel.

I want pre-outs so I can hook up an external amp.

My televisions are Panasonic VT60's. I believe they have ARC, but I don't think they pass a surround signal back to the AVR. Depending upon the source, that may not be a concern for HD/4K content. One of my primary content providers is an arial antenna, in which case ARC would be necessary because I don't think these AVR's have any coaxial inputs. I also think the VT60s have HDCP support, but I doubt that it's 2.2. Not sure if the player and the tv would need to support that protocol. Maybe it's only a big deal when passing the signal through an AVR, which may have huge advantages with regards to sound.

All the stuff going on today with resolution, surround sound, copyright protection etc. etc. can be a bit overwhelming. I'm starting to feel like my parents and I don't have any children to help me out.
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I guess the ones I'm really looking at are the 3040 & 3050. Aside from a 5.1 system that I bought with a computer, things have changed dramatically since I last bought any home audio stuff. Everything was still two channel.

I want pre-outs so I can hook up an external amp.

My televisions are Panasonic VT60's. I believe they have ARC, but I don't think they pass a surround signal back to the AVR. Depending upon the source, that may not be a concern for HD/4K content. One of my primary content providers is an arial antenna, in which case ARC would be necessary because I don't think these AVR's have any coaxial inputs. I also think the VT60s have HDCP support, but I doubt that it's 2.2. Not sure if the player and the tv would need to support that protocol. Maybe it's only a big deal when passing the signal through an AVR, which may have huge advantages with regards to sound.

All the stuff going on today with resolution, surround sound, copyright protection etc. etc. can be a bit overwhelming. I'm starting to feel like my parents and I don't have any children to help me out.
I was looking at the 3040 as well. Great value for that from A4L. I already have an external amp so was thinking that I can go all the way down to 1040 without losing much of anything (once I realized even the 1040 has preouts). Considering the 1050 also for slightly newer tech? Not sure it's worth it or not. May still go for the 3040. I would just get a pre/pro but they are more expensive than buying a decent AVR.
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry posting same thing in two threads, wanted to update the Yamaha vs Outlaw thread that I'm returning the 975.

Anyway, now I'm looking at 3040 vs 1050, it's coming down to this:

The 3040 does have better DAC, will not support DTS X should that ever matter, and does not have HDCP (I can get around that by going HDCP source to display, separate audio to AVR).

Between the 1050 and the 3040:

3040 DAC = ESS Technology ES9016 SABRE32™ Ultra DAC + ESS Technology ES9006 SABRE™ Premier Audio DAC

1050 DAC = ESS SABRE™ 9006A

Will I care or notice a difference? Do I care about HDCP 2.2 support the 1050 offers?

Keep in mind I am powering 5.1 with external amp, so the power of the 3040 vs. the 1050 will not come into play. Should I choose to go 5.1.2 I'll use the AVR to power the atmos speakers.

From what I've read so far, difference in DACs is largely inaudible. Then why are there different "premium" DACs vs. lower end ESS or or BurrBrown?
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post #9 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 11:52 AM
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Functional differences are if you want to go beyond 7 channels in the future (of processing, not internal amps).
1040 and 1050 can go to 5.2.2 = 7
2040 and 2050 can go to 5.4.2 or 7.2.2 = 9
3040 and 3050 can go to 7.4.2 = 11
Another functional difference which may not matter to you is the xx40 series have multi channel analog inputs.
DTS-X only matters for when you add "ATMOS" type speaker positions.

For me, the 20x0 would be the choice, because I want to do 5.4.2 and don't have an easy way to expand to 7.4.2. For you, it sounds like either the 10x0 or 30x0 would be the choice, depending on how much you want to spend on DACs.

LCR: Hsu HB-1 MK2, HC-1 MK2..........Subwoofers: Rhythmik D15SE, Hsu VTF-2 MK4
Receiver: Denon 1712CI, 2310CI........Networking: Roku 3, WDTV Live......Other: MiniDSP 2x4 RevB
Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP-80, Sony S590.....TV: Samsung PN60F8500, Panasonic TC-50PU54
Atmos/DTS-X: 5.1.4; RSL C34E speakers; receiver TBD
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 12:15 PM
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For me, A2050 was happy medium & for quasi-future proofing with the 4k connectivity. I am setting up a 5.1.4 set-up


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post #11 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok..DACs are quite the rabbit hole.

It seems the implementation matters more than the DAC itself for the most part.

The real advantage of the 3040 over the 1050 is likely better DSP "steering" that Yamaha has in the higher end receivers....
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highmr View Post
Functional differences are if you want to go beyond 7 channels in the future (of processing, not internal amps).
1040 and 1050 can go to 5.2.2 = 7
2040 and 2050 can go to 5.4.2 or 7.2.2 = 9
3040 and 3050 can go to 7.4.2 = 11
Another functional difference which may not matter to you is the xx40 series have multi channel analog inputs.
DTS-X only matters for when you add "ATMOS" type speaker positions.

For me, the 20x0 would be the choice, because I want to do 5.4.2 and don't have an easy way to expand to 7.4.2. For you, it sounds like either the 10x0 or 30x0 would be the choice, depending on how much you want to spend on DACs.
just for clarity ,
the second digit refers to subwoofer outs, the last digit is the height/presence speakers.

5.2.2 = 5 bed layer (ear level speakers), 2 sub pre-outs, 2 height/presence speakers (7 channel)
7.2.2 = 7 bed layer (ear level speakers), 2 sub pre-outs, 2 height/presence speakers (9 channel)

5.2.4 = 5 bed layer (ear level), 2 sub pre-outs, 4 height/presence (9 channel)
7.2.4 = 7 bed layer (ear level), 2 sub pre-outs, 4 height/presence (11 channel)*

* The 3040 and 3050 only have 9 internal amps, 11 ch processing
so an external amp must be added for at least 2 channels.

Last edited by PioManiac; 06-21-2016 at 01:25 PM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highmr View Post
Functional differences are if you want to go beyond 7 channels in the future (of processing, not internal amps).
1040 and 1050 can go to 5.2.2 = 7
2040 and 2050 can go to 5.4.2 or 7.2.2 = 9
3040 and 3050 can go to 7.4.2 = 11
Another functional difference which may not matter to you is the xx40 series have multi channel analog inputs.
DTS-X only matters for when you add "ATMOS" type speaker positions.

For me, the 20x0 would be the choice, because I want to do 5.4.2 and don't have an easy way to expand to 7.4.2. For you, it sounds like either the 10x0 or 30x0 would be the choice, depending on how much you want to spend on DACs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks1 View Post
For me, A2050 was happy medium & for quasi-future proofing with the 4k connectivity. I am setting up a 5.1.4 set-up


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Hmm food for thought. In ceiling speakers for me will be easy to accomplish. Much easier than a 7.1. My surround for a 5.1 will be severely limited in placement and outside of the ideal range.

Now I like the idea of being able to add height speakers for atmos and dts x. May not rush to it, but having the option is nice. I think height speakers for movies will be more rewarding than say...knowing I have better DAC(s) that I probably can't hear the difference.

Now that I'm leaning this way, the question is 1050 or 2050 - which is purely about 5.1.2 or 5.1.4. With an essentially permanently messed up surround speaker location (I'm not going to tear down/build walls) ... maybe 5.1.4 would be wasted? Do the rear height speakers add effects for the rear speakers, or independently based on the media / effect?

5.1.4 AVR is +$300 for something I'm not using anytime soon if ever. But with the 1050 I will still have the option to at least leverage 5.1.2. With 5.1.2 at least the front stage will be nice.

Look at me now....I was mentally satisfied with the simplicity of the Outlaw 975, but now that I find the 975 lacking for my needs (not because of atmos or any of that) I'm allowing myself to consider more cool toys.
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 01:58 PM
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I keep hoping prices on the 40 & 50 series will drop some more when the 60 series is released.

AC4L appears to be still adding stock for both series. The 3040 had dropped down to nine available units sometime within the last 24 hours, but is now back up to 14. The number of 3050s has also increased.

The 3040 supports Atmos, but not DTS:X. Is there is easily explainable difference between the two? Are they just two different "overhead sound" encoding formats?
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 02:55 PM
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Based on reviews I read about Atmos almost universal agreement that 4 Atmos speakers sounds much better for movies than just 2. I was set to buy the A1050 & save a lot, but moved up to the 9 Channel A2050 so bought refurbished at AC4L. The receiver came in mint condition & every single feature works so far that I have tested in my 1st week of ownership. Good luck w/ur decision


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post #16 of 16 Old 06-21-2016, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I keep hoping prices on the 40 & 50 series will drop some more when the 60 series is released.

AC4L appears to be still adding stock for both series. The 3040 had dropped down to nine available units sometime within the last 24 hours, but is now back up to 14. The number of 3050s has also increased.

The 3040 supports Atmos, but not DTS:X. Is there is easily explainable difference between the two? Are they just two different "overhead sound" encoding formats?
Dolby atmos came first, there is more available content. Atmos requires specific speaker configuration (either up-firing atmos speakers for reflected sound or on/in ceiling speakers) in specific recommended locations.

DTS X came a bit later, less content out there but likely growing. DTS X speaker setup is not rigid, it will take advantage of whatever speakers you have in whatever configuration, relying on correction software to sort out where to send the noise.

So, setup your speakers for atmos, and they will be just fine for dts x as well.

Therefore...I'm going for the xx50 series, because they support atmos and dtsx. I want the most choices for content. Looks like i may be going with 2050, though I wanted to spend much less. I suppose this will be somewhat future proof for a few years...
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