The Official Rotel RAP-1580 Amplified Processor Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 109 Old 05-24-2017, 09:09 AM
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BTW, the 1.44 to 1.45 update was VERY minor (disappointing):

V1.44 to V1.45 May 9, 2017
Bug Fix (Minor): Reduced standby power consumption to <0.5W.
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post #92 of 109 Old 05-24-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001 View Post
BTW, the 1.44 to 1.45 update was VERY minor (disappointing):

V1.44 to V1.45 May 9, 2017
Bug Fix (Minor): Reduced standby power consumption to <0.5W.
How did you come to find out what the update did the website was not forthcoming with information. I found a work around with my samsung tv. it has an RVU built in and it works like you have a direct tv box connected to it. So there is no cables needed to pass video to the tv so that eliminated a loop. All ya need is a cable to pass sound to your equipment. There is one hiccup in this solution , at times i think when the dir is recording multiple shows the sound has some drop outs . i haven't done a full test on this yet but this is my gut instinct on this issue.. But over all so far it isn't perfect but it works pretty well ..
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post #93 of 109 Old 05-25-2017, 12:02 AM
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i Already have a good sub for music in my system i have an old Rel sub i have had about as long as i have had my speakers.
OK, I took a punt on the sub as an example. Is yours as capable or better than one I linked? If not, it's an upgrade.
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One day i might get some new speakers but holy hell the lack of actual audio shops and choices to actually listen too is so thin even in the 5th largest city ..
Plenty of internet direct speaker manufacturers around where you can trial speakers at home (the best place) either for free or for the cost of return shipping. Crutchfield have a pretty reasonable returns policy and stock several mainstream speakers.
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Well as far as you opinion on my wire buy i will see if i notice a difference when they arrive only time will tell .
Oh, I'm almost certain you'll notice a difference... many people do. However it's not about if you notice a difference or not, but understanding why you notice a difference. It's got nothing to do with passive bi-amping or fancy wires because they make no net electrical difference. So what is it? It's about the science of hearing perception and more particularly the mix of cognitive biases that are in play when conducting "plug 'n' play" assessments of a bit of audio gear. This is discussed in more detail here.

Audio enthusiasts not having a basic grasp of hearing perception is how AudioQuest (and many others) are able to get away with selling all sorts of stuff based upon high perceived value and complete BS pseudo-science like this feeding their expectations:

Quote:
Product description
Jacket: black/green/gray braid Rocket 88 incorporates AudioQuest's patented Dielectric-Bias System (DBS) and replaces Long-Grain Copper with Perfect-Surface Copper+. DBS offers a lower noise-floor, so you can hear deeper into the nuances of your favorite music. At the same time the addition of more PSC+ offers a smoother, more relaxed, and natural sonic timbre and texture. SOLID PERFECT-SURFACE COPPER/PERFECT-SURFACE COPPER+ (PSC/PSC+) CONDUCTORS: Rocket 88 uses a carefully finessed and optimized combination of Perfect-Surface Copper and extremely high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper+. The astonishingly smooth and pure combination of PSC+ and PSC significantly eliminates harshness and greatly increases clarity. Rocket 88's conductor mix is dominated by PSC+. CARBON-BASED NOISE-DISSIPATION (INSULATION): The four negative conductors in Rocket 88 are insulated with partially conductive Carbon-Loaded Polyethylene. This remarkable material damps radio-frequency from being fed back into the amplifier. Rocket 88 uses Foamed-Polyethylene Insulation on its positive conductors. DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM (DBS, US Pat #s 7,126,055 & 7,872,195 B1): All insulation slows down the signal on the conductor inside. When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio. AudioQuest's DBS creates a strong, stable electrostatic field which saturates and polarizes (organizes) the molecules of the insulation. This minimizes both energy storage in the insulation and the multiple nonlinear time-delays that occur. Sound appears from a surprisingly black background with unexpected detail and dynamic contrast. SPREAD-SPECTRUM TECHNOLOGY (SST):The different SST-determined conductor sizes used in Rocket 88 allow an exceptionally clear, clean and dynamic sound. BIWIRING: Rocket 88 is an exceptional Single-BiWire cable.
Anyway it's not for me to tell you how to spend your audio dollar. It comes down to whether you're happy to spend it on a "perceived real" upgrade as opposed to an "actual real" upgrade. Good luck!

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post #94 of 109 Old 05-25-2017, 07:17 AM
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How did you come to find out what the update did the website was not forthcoming with information.
I randomly hit update software and it worked. The information was not on the website until two days after.
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post #95 of 109 Old 05-25-2017, 09:15 PM
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I randomly hit update software and it worked. The information was not on the website until two days after.
ah ok i know they are pretty conservative with updates and such at least with the product i had in the past.hopefully with this piece being a big computer maybe there will be more software updates to come along . How do you like your RAP-1580. I really enjoy mine for music. The processors for surround are a huge leap in dynamics over my 16 year old piece this is replacing. And i was pretty happy with the old one still. So I am happy with this piece.
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post #96 of 109 Old 05-29-2017, 09:52 PM
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Having an issue that sounds like others might be having.

The set-up is - RAP-1580, Oppo 203 and Sony A1 Oled - AQ vodka hdmi to Rotel AQ carbon to tv. When running everything through Rotel my oppo settings while running the movie Logan show "8 bit panel, 4:4:4 and won't light up hdr it says SDR". When I try both hdmi outputs of Rotel I get same. No access to anything hdr. When I hook oppo straight up to tv everththing lights up correctly and I have hdr on the tv and video picture controls in Hdr. Any suggestions?
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post #97 of 109 Old 05-30-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DPAsghar View Post
Having an issue that sounds like others might be having.

The set-up is - RAP-1580, Oppo 203 and Sony A1 Oled - AQ vodka hdmi to Rotel AQ carbon to tv. When running everything through Rotel my oppo settings while running the movie Logan show "8 bit panel, 4:4:4 and won't light up hdr it says SDR". When I try both hdmi outputs of Rotel I get same. No access to anything hdr. When I hook oppo straight up to tv everththing lights up correctly and I have hdr on the tv and video picture controls in Hdr. Any suggestions?
Well, that does sound very familiar. I was given an ALTONA HDMI SYNC, by my great sales team but it didn't't correct my issues of passing 4k Through the RAP-1580 properly. I was able to run a snoop program to get the details on the RAP HDMI timings and the report shows the RAP is more than up to the task of passing the content but it there are issues that prohibit it from passing it though.. I was in heaveny i mean heavy email contact with Tim Wyatt over at B&W support . I was also in contact with the tech guys at Altona . But i like you had to just bypass using the RAP as it was designed so i could get the proper results.. I also upgraded my HDMI cables to the same ones you have with no luck in solving the issue. So it isn't your cables unless they are like super long but i doubt your running super long runs.. I had to give up on trying to solve it. i am on my second RAP-1580 second directt tv box and i went from cinnamon to the carbons. So believe me it is inside the RAP where the issues with HDMI are located. I think the Rap sounds great though. I was thinking of getting an OPPO but hearing your story and from my troubles I know for now passing 4k through the RAP is a crap shoot . I was so excited to get ahold of my RAP only to have some of the things i bought it for didn't work so on that level i am bummed . But when i listen to music it brings me back to loving it. I have a question for you, have you tried hooking your phone or iPod to the front usb does it work properly for you. I have found it to be sort of buggy. For me its not really something i would use with any regularity. but i tried it and it is not very responsive to my iPhone 7 plus. i would love to hear about your experiences with that port.. I am eager to hear about more of your experiences with your RAP my friend. I am going to fire up the Beatles SGT Peppers 50th reissue tonight. i know it isn't the latest and greatest audio but it makes me happy when i listen to it. Sorry i sort of went all over the place on ya but your issues are very very similar to ones i experienced ..
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post #98 of 109 Old 06-05-2017, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DPAsghar View Post
Having an issue that sounds like others might be having.

The set-up is - RAP-1580, Oppo 203 and Sony A1 Oled - AQ vodka hdmi to Rotel AQ carbon to tv. When running everything through Rotel my oppo settings while running the movie Logan show "8 bit panel, 4:4:4 and won't light up hdr it says SDR". When I try both hdmi outputs of Rotel I get same. No access to anything hdr. When I hook oppo straight up to tv everththing lights up correctly and I have hdr on the tv and video picture controls in Hdr. Any suggestions?
Same issue. I'm loving the sound quality of the RAP but the pre/pro seems to be lacking and I may return this unit and go the separates route. I wasn't sure if the RAP was the culprit, so I tested different sources and different cables direct to display bypassing the Rotel. This made HDR work correctly so I have to assume the RAP isn't passing the signal correctly.
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post #99 of 109 Old 06-05-2017, 09:32 PM
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Is anyone else having any of these issues with the Rotel RAP-1580? I really LOVE a lot of things about this piece (built quality, power handling for my 7.2 setup, sound quality, overall aesthetic) however, I'm pretty sure I'll be returning this and going with either Marantz, Anthem or Emotiva for processing. Issues I've seen in first few weeks (on current firmware):

1) Sound delays - with any source (bluray, cable box, roku) it sometimes takes 1 second and sometimes 10 seconds for the sound to start playing after switching sources or pausing/restarting a movie.
2) Bad startup - 90% of the time okay. But sometimes get flashing power button and LCD screen never shows anything except "white" screen. Power button continues to flash but never does anything unless you disconnect power, then restart (off/on won't correct it... only complete power disconnect).
3) HDR issues - doesn't seem to pass HDR UHD bluray correctly. It works when RAP is bypassed (source directly to display) but not when going thru RAP.

Maybe I just got a bad unit but I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced any of the same problems. Meanwhile, I'm narrowing in on these as a replacement: Anthem AVM-60, Emotiva XMC-1, Marantz 7703, Marantz 8802A (but not likely since new version is expected in Jan), Yamaha CX-A5100. Feedback appreciated.
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post #100 of 109 Old 06-06-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Red.Blue View Post
Is anyone else having any of these issues with the Rotel RAP-1580? I really LOVE a lot of things about this piece (built quality, power handling for my 7.2 setup, sound quality, overall aesthetic) however, I'm pretty sure I'll be returning this and going with either Marantz, Anthem or Emotiva for processing. Issues I've seen in first few weeks (on current firmware):

1) Sound delays - with any source (bluray, cable box, roku) it sometimes takes 1 second and sometimes 10 seconds for the sound to start playing after switching sources or pausing/restarting a movie.
2) Bad startup - 90% of the time okay. But sometimes get flashing power button and LCD screen never shows anything except "white" screen. Power button continues to flash but never does anything unless you disconnect power, then restart (off/on won't correct it... only complete power disconnect).
3) HDR issues - doesn't seem to pass HDR UHD bluray correctly. It works when RAP is bypassed (source directly to display) but not when going thru RAP.

Maybe I just got a bad unit but I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced any of the same problems. Meanwhile, I'm narrowing in on these as a replacement: Anthem AVM-60, Emotiva XMC-1, Marantz 7703, Marantz 8802A (but not likely since new version is expected in Jan), Yamaha CX-A5100. Feedback appreciated.
your assessment is correct it is the RAP-1580, I returned my first one and i am on my second one. The issues you are presenting here are consistent with issues i had with direct tv. I suspect if i had other sources of 4k content i would be experiencing similar issues with them by the looks of things. I hope that the tech team over at Rotel start to see that the issues are more wide spread than just an isolated issue. They need to get there software code guys some extra coffee and some over time pay allowed so they can address these issues. I am more patient than most i suppose because i think in the near future they will address these shortcomings with a firm ware update. But i wouldn't fault anyone for taking this piece back and going an other route since it isn't exactly inexpensive by any means. I have similar issues with slow response times when sound sources switch on the tv. I know from my past experience with my RSX1065 they addressed that issue on that piece with a firmware update. But they are not known for massive amounts of software updates . Maybe if people shine enough light on these issues it might cause the company to speed up some processes . I know that these issues are going to cause issues in sales of the unit if people look at these forums. I wish you good luck in your hunt for a solution to your system either by returning this unit for another unit. I hope you end up with functional system that gives you much enjoyment for many years..
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post #101 of 109 Old 06-06-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Red.Blue View Post
Is anyone else having any of these issues with the Rotel RAP-1580? I really LOVE a lot of things about this piece (built quality, power handling for my 7.2 setup, sound quality, overall aesthetic) however, I'm pretty sure I'll be returning this and going with either Marantz, Anthem or Emotiva for processing. Issues I've seen in first few weeks (on current firmware):

1) Sound delays - with any source (bluray, cable box, roku) it sometimes takes 1 second and sometimes 10 seconds for the sound to start playing after switching sources or pausing/restarting a movie.
2) Bad startup - 90% of the time okay. But sometimes get flashing power button and LCD screen never shows anything except "white" screen. Power button continues to flash but never does anything unless you disconnect power, then restart (off/on won't correct it... only complete power disconnect).
3) HDR issues - doesn't seem to pass HDR UHD bluray correctly. It works when RAP is bypassed (source directly to display) but not when going thru RAP.

Maybe I just got a bad unit but I'm curious to see if anyone else has experienced any of the same problems. Meanwhile, I'm narrowing in on these as a replacement: Anthem AVM-60, Emotiva XMC-1, Marantz 7703, Marantz 8802A (but not likely since new version is expected in Jan), Yamaha CX-A5100. Feedback appreciated.
your assessment is correct it is the RAP-1580, I returned my first one and i am on my second one. The issues you are presenting here are consistent with issues i had with direct tv. I suspect if i had other sources of 4k content i would be experiencing similar issues with them by the looks of things. I hope that the tech team over at Rotel start to see that the issues are more wide spread than just an isolated issue. They need to get there software code guys some extra coffee and some over time pay allowed so they can address these issues. I am more patient than most i suppose because i think in the near future they will address these shortcomings with a firm ware update. But i wouldn't fault anyone for taking this piece back and going an other route since it isn't exactly inexpensive by any means. I have similar issues with slow response times when sound sources switch on the tv. I know from my past experience with my RSX1065 they addressed that issue on that piece with a firmware update. But they are not known for massive amounts of software updates . Maybe if people shine enough light on these issues it might cause the company to speed up some processes . I know that these issues are going to cause issues in sales of the unit if people look at these forums. I wish you good luck in your hunt for a solution to your system either by returning this unit for another unit. I hope you end up with functional system that gives you much enjoyment for many years..
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post #102 of 109 Old 08-04-2017, 06:52 AM
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Good news it appears, there is an update from Rotel that updates from 1.60 to 1.71 and "claims" to fix the HDMI 4K HDR handshake issues. I too have had these problems and have had to completely bypass the RAP-1580 for any 4K movies or games. Looking forward to updating tonight and seeing what happens.
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post #103 of 109 Old 08-28-2017, 03:55 PM
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Good news it appears, there is an update from Rotel that updates from 1.60 to 1.71 and "claims" to fix the HDMI 4K HDR handshake issues. I too have had these problems and have had to completely bypass the RAP-1580 for any 4K movies or games. Looking forward to updating tonight and seeing what happens.
Any update on whether or not the 4k handshake issues have been resolved?

i'm shortlisting receivers for my new home theatre and like the amp section of this rotel (spec-wise).
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post #104 of 109 Old 09-06-2017, 05:39 PM
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Any update on whether or not the 4k handshake issues have been resolved?

i'm shortlisting receivers for my new home theatre and like the amp section of this rotel (spec-wise).
Hey there was a couple of firmware updates. but i don't have my direct tv looped through my RAP 1580 my samsung tv has the RVU so you can use the tv with out a direct tv box .I am very curious though if it has been remedied with the new firmware updates. I would talk to your sales person and directly ask them about this issue and maybe they might have a better answer for you from a rep from the Rotel group.. I love the sound of mine the amp section is fantastic. if you are looking for all of those flashy bells and whistles like auto room correction and the front loaded with buttons and stuff that really doesn't add to the sonic performance of the sound you will get from this particular product. I have gone and done the bi amping of my towers with mine. I reluctantly will admit that the performance gain if any is out of the scope of my listening room. I can't conclusively say it has no effect but it isn't going to blow your skirt up if there is any benefit . If your looking for a system that will also be used for playing music with great sonic reproduction i would say go get this unit all day long, it sounds fantastic at this particular price point. If you are not really looking to play music through your system with any regularity and you like the auto room correction i suppose maybe another unit might be for you. There is a parametric eq in the unit i have not had my room calibrated by a professional with the proper equipment to do it . So you can achieve a corrected room with the RAP1580 but it will take a little effort. I all in all love mine even with my hiccups along the way. Let me know what unit you choose and i would love to hear from you to your results with what ever unit you decide on buying. Good luck and enjoy what you buy..
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post #105 of 109 Old 09-07-2017, 01:09 PM
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Thanks. I'll keep you posted.
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post #106 of 109 Old 09-07-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by robphx View Post
Hey there was a couple of firmware updates. but i don't have my direct tv looped through my RAP 1580 my samsung tv has the RVU so you can use the tv with out a direct tv box .I am very curious though if it has been remedied with the new firmware updates. I would talk to your sales person and directly ask them about this issue and maybe they might have a better answer for you from a rep from the Rotel group.. I love the sound of mine the amp section is fantastic. if you are looking for all of those flashy bells and whistles like auto room correction and the front loaded with buttons and stuff that really doesn't add to the sonic performance of the sound you will get from this particular product. I have gone and done the bi amping of my towers with mine. I reluctantly will admit that the performance gain if any is out of the scope of my listening room. I can't conclusively say it has no effect but it isn't going to blow your skirt up if there is any benefit . If your looking for a system that will also be used for playing music with great sonic reproduction i would say go get this unit all day long, it sounds fantastic at this particular price point. If you are not really looking to play music through your system with any regularity and you like the auto room correction i suppose maybe another unit might be for you. There is a parametric eq in the unit i have not had my room calibrated by a professional with the proper equipment to do it . So you can achieve a corrected room with the RAP1580 but it will take a little effort. I all in all love mine even with my hiccups along the way. Let me know what unit you choose and i would love to hear from you to your results with what ever unit you decide on buying. Good luck and enjoy what you buy..
Anyone know if this receiver is zone 2 capable using internal amps?
Thanks very much.

LG 65 EF 9500,Yamaha 3050,Oppo 203
Directv C61 4K box, Apple TV, SONOS Connect
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"It ain't 4K if it ain't shot in 4K"
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post #107 of 109 Old 09-07-2017, 01:38 PM
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I have one - will have to set it up and then check it out - you can see the rest of my setup in my signature, cheers.
Still trying to figure out how to do this sans auto-Eq.. the manual is a hard one to read..
Hi Pete.
I posted this further down the thread. Can this receiver support zone 2 using internal amps?
Best regards to you,
Carter

LG 65 EF 9500,Yamaha 3050,Oppo 203
Directv C61 4K box, Apple TV, SONOS Connect
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post #108 of 109 Old 09-12-2017, 05:47 PM
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Hi Pete.
I posted this further down the thread. Can this receiver support zone 2 using internal amps?
Best regards to you,
Carter
So sorry, I missed this - I didn't try it, and I decided not to keep the Rotel.
Great sounding amp, but the primitive interface, lack of HDCP ports, and no auto-EQ were the deal breakers..
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post #109 of 109 Old 09-13-2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
OK, I took a punt on the sub as an example. Is yours as capable or better than one I linked? If not, it's an upgrade.

Plenty of internet direct speaker manufacturers around where you can trial speakers at home (the best place) either for free or for the cost of return shipping. Crutchfield have a pretty reasonable returns policy and stock several mainstream speakers.

Oh, I'm almost certain you'll notice a difference... many people do. However it's not about if you notice a difference or not, but understanding why you notice a difference. It's got nothing to do with passive bi-amping or fancy wires because they make no net electrical difference. So what is it? It's about the science of hearing perception and more particularly the mix of cognitive biases that are in play when conducting "plug 'n' play" assessments of a bit of audio gear. This is discussed in more detail here.

Audio enthusiasts not having a basic grasp of hearing perception is how AudioQuest (and many others) are able to get away with selling all sorts of stuff based upon high perceived value and complete BS pseudo-science like this feeding their expectations:



Anyway it's not for me to tell you how to spend your audio dollar. It comes down to whether you're happy to spend it on a "perceived real" upgrade as opposed to an "actual real" upgrade. Good luck!
I agree.

I actually have always run bi-wire cables not because I heard the difference, but because the shop I purchased my speakers gave them to me for free.

In any way, if you are set for bi-amping your main then you can do it fine with Canare 4S11 cable which sales for less than $2.00/foot. Or just go to bluejeans cable and get the same cable with the connectors ultrasonicly attached to the cable which should reduce the impedance of the connector. At least these manufacturers/retailers provide scientific info to support their cables (things like impedance, capacitance...etc).

For $300 I would get the oppo headphone amp (HA-2SE https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2SE/) and enjoy really good sound from your headphones.

Good luck.

Thanks
Maziar

2 Channel: Mac mini (late 2012) -> Audirvana Plus -> oppo HA-1 -> Rotel RMB-1075 -> B&W 805 D3
5 Channel: oppo BDP-103 -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (analog bypass) -> Rotel RMB-1075 -> B&W 805 D3 (2) & B&W DM-310 (3)

Last edited by mazuly; 09-13-2017 at 10:09 PM.
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