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post #1 of 33 Old 02-09-2017, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon AVR receiver audio volume

Hello,

I have Denon AVR-1612 connected to a pair of 75 watt 8 ohm Klipsch bookshelf speakers.

I haven't yet been able to setup the receiver and speakers via the Denon firmware because I'm still waiting a remote which may take some time to be delivered, from overseas.

I suspect the receiver is set to it's defaults or the last setup configuration.

The only current connection is through the receiver's v.aux rca stereo input jacks to a PC's sound output stereo pin jack.

My question is about the receiver's volume.

The receiver volume is set to ~ -13 db.

With the PC Windows OS sound set to maximum and the application producing sound set to ~75 percent volume, the volume seems about right with a good strong volume output from the speakers.

However when lowering the receiver's volume down from ~ - 13 db the sound output progressively becomes very weak, -30 db is very difficult to hear, once reaching -60 db there is no audible sound even when the PC and sound application is set to maximum volume.

The receiver's sound volume is rated -80 db to 18 db.

The receiver's inputs probably have different output sound levels they're able to produce.

Is this normal receiver volume from a PCs mini jack output? I know there are other factors involved but am wondering what to expect from a receiver when the sound source is from a PC.

There area a couple of audio adapters on the line out cord to the receiver.
________

I'm running Windows Vista x64 which has no equalizer and sound control, other after opening sound from the control panel it does allow for adjustments left and right channel vol. output for balance. Other than for volume control, I'm unable to find simple taskbar utility that will allow the user to make simple adjustment such as for balance, bass and treble.

Last edited by Neb Ula; 02-09-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 02-09-2017, 07:50 PM
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post #3 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 07:32 AM
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quote:"once reaching -60 db there is no audible sound even when the PC and sound application is set to maximum volume"

Recognize that -60 dB(decibell) is -6 B (Bell) Each bell is a power of 10. -60 dB is 1/1000,000 (10 to the -6th power) of the output at 0 dB. I cannot say that the volume control on your receiver has much accuracy at that level, but who cares.

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post #4 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
Hello,

I have Denon AVR-1612 connected to a pair of 75 watt 8 ohm Klipsch bookshelf speakers.

I haven't yet been able to setup the receiver and speakers via the Denon firmware because I'm still waiting a remote which may take some time to be delivered, from overseas.
Denon's control codes haven't changed for a very long time although new receivers often nave new features, so almost any IR remote which supports a Denon receiver will work.

Many people like to use a programmable universal remote like the Harmony line from Logitech. Their model 650 probably would be appropriate and is available in most major electronics outlets like Best Buy.

As others have pointed out, modern receiver volume controls are very non-linear. After running the Audyssey calibration, a volume control setting in the vicinity of 70 (-10dB) usually is appropriate. Do check to make sure you have the calibration microphone, too.

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post #5 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Denon's control codes haven't changed for a very long time although new receivers often nave new features, so almost any IR remote which supports a Denon receiver will work.

Many people like to use a programmable universal remote like the Harmony line from Logitech. Their model 650 probably would be appropriate and is available in most major electronics outlets like Best Buy.

As others have pointed out, modern receiver volume controls are very non-linear. After running the Audyssey calibration, a volume control setting in the vicinity of 70 (-10dB) usually is appropriate. Do check to make sure you have the calibration microphone, too.
I've looked around on eBay for a calibration microphone. From what i was told the microphone that came with the Denon SVR-1612 is needed to perform the calibration?

I'm also going to add a subwoofer. I purchased a used Klipsch SUB10 from eBay whose condition at this point is unknown. The fuse is missing. The local hardware store didn't carry a 2 amp mini din so I ordered a few online. The seller described it as a non-working subwoofer that didn't turn on and produce any sound.

If the SUB10 doesn't work I have a person who will repair it for $75.00.

I removed the input panel just to take a look at the PCB (amp and driver), which appears in great shape. However there was one odd thing The sticker label on the inside of the input panel shows SW10 120V. SW10 is an older generation Series II 100 watt subwoofer from the 90's. The SUB10 is newer Synergy Series 200 watt subwoofer. I think the factory must have mislabeled the input panel that uses a newer BASH amp.

I compared pics online of a SUB10 input panel and the PCB appears exactly the same except for the label which should be SUB10 120V instead of SW10 120V.

I opened a ticket for Klipsch tech support to asked them why the SUB10 input panel is labeled SW10.
_____

By the way after reading the manual I believe the Denon AVR can be setup by connecting the monitor to the HDMI monitor input.

From what I have determined, when a monitor is connected to the rec. hdmi monitor input a setup screen should appear from the monitor? However I don't think the setup menu displayed on the monitor can be controlled without a remote?

My universal remotes are too old and unable to control a Denon AVR, unless you already have a Denon remote and can learn or copy the ir codes to the universal remote.

Last edited by Neb Ula; 02-10-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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post #6 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
I've looked around on eBay for a calibration microphone. From what i was told the microphone that came with the Denon SVR-1612 is needed to perform the calibration?
The drawing on page 13 of the 1612's owner's manual shows a "tower" calibration microphone. My understanding is that all Audyssey mics of that style are interchangeable with one another. I'm sure JD will correct me if I'm wrong!


Quote:
I'm also going to add a subwoofer. I purchased a used SUB10 from eBay whose condition at this point is unknown. The fuse is missing. The local hardware store didn't carry a 2 amp mini din so I ordered a few online. The seller described it as a non-working subwoofer that didn't turn on and produce any sound.

If the SUB10 doesn't work I have a person who will repair it for $75.00.

I removed the input panel just to take a look at the PCB (amp and driver), which appears in great shape. However there was one odd thing The sticker label on the inside of the input panel shows SW10 120V. SW10 is an older generation Series II 100 watt subwoofer from the 90's. The SUB10 is newer Synergy Series 200 watt subwoofer. I think the factory must have mislabeled the input panel that uses a newer BASH amp.

I compared pics online of a SUB10 input panel and the PCB appears exactly the same except for the label which should be SUB10 120V instead of SW10 120V.

I opened a ticket for Klipsch tech support to asked them why the SUB10 input panel is labeled SW15.
I'd be concerned that the sub you received isn't actually what you were told you were getting. Scams are all too prevalent. Hopefully Klipsch will be able to clarify the situation.

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post #7 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
The drawing on page 13 of the 1612's owner's manual shows a "tower" calibration microphone. My understanding is that all Audyssey mics of that style are interchangeable with one another. I'm sure JD will correct me if I'm wrong!

I'd be concerned that the sub you received isn't actually what you were told you were getting. Scams are all too prevalent. Hopefully Klipsch will be able to clarify the situation.
At first I thought the seller made a mistake, however after some searching I found pics of the internal part of the SUB10 input panel with an L shaped PCB. All the electronics are exactly the same, caps, resisters, transformer, terminals, additional soldered pcb's, etc. are all in the exact same position on the PCB. The only difference is the sticker next to the PCB on interior part of the input panel. The subwoofer I have shows SW10 120V and the SUB10 found online shows SUB10 120V. The subwoofer case is the exact same dimensions as the SUB10 spec sheet and the 10" subwoofer point downward instead of outward towards on the front as the SW10 design.

SW10 (100 watt) is an older generation Series II subwoofer that came out back in the mid 90s. The SUB10 (200 watt) is part of the Synergy Series that I believe first arrived on the market sometime in the mid 2000's.

Hopefully Klipsch can shed some light on why the sticker has SW10 instead of SUB10, mostly likely some sort of misprint?

I'm still waiting for the fuse(s) to arrive to test it out. I was told by a repair shop it uses a slow blow 2 amp fuse.

Attempting to use a 2 amp quick blow immediately blew the fuse.

If the slow blow fuse also fails I know a person who offered to repair the SUB10 for $75.00. Paid $60.00 on eBay total invested plus shipping would come to approx. ~ $150.00

Last edited by Neb Ula; 02-10-2017 at 12:27 PM.
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post #8 of 33 Old 02-10-2017, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried getting the Denon receiver work with my Nec LCD monitor which doesn't have HDMI. Video input is VGA (15 pin d-sub) or DVI-D.

Using a DVI to HDMI cable the monitor saying the signal timing (from the Denon Receiver) is incorrect. The monitor breifly displays some white lettering along with "Auto" the display then goes blank.

Last edited by Neb Ula; 02-10-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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post #9 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
I tried getting the Denon receiver work with my Nec LCD monitor which doesn't have HDMI. Video input is VGA (15 pin d-sub) or DVI-D.

Using a DVI to HDMI cable the monitor saying the signal timing (from the Denon Receiver) is incorrect. The monitor breifly displays some white lettering along with "Auto" the display then goes blank.
Exactly what model of NEC monitor do you have? What color encodings, resolutions and scan rates does it accept?

What are you using as the player device? For example, do you have your computer connected to the receiver? Or a Blu-ray player? What's the player's output resolution? Or are you trying to connect the receiver with no input device?

A/V receivers can handle only the standard entertainment resolutions. The most popular ones are 1920x1080 @60Hz progressive (aka 1080p), 1200x720@ 60Hz progressive (aka 720p) and 640x480 @60 Hz, either progressive or interlaced. When nothing else is controlling the resolution (e.g. your computer's graphics output acting as the player device), the EDID returned by your monitor is supposed to tell the receiver which of those resolutions to use. If the monitor can't handle any of those resolutions, that might explain your problem.

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post #10 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly what model of NEC monitor do you have? What color encodings, resolutions and scan rates does it accept?

What are you using as the player device? For example, do you have your computer connected to the receiver? Or a Blu-ray player? What's the player's output resolution? Or are you trying to connect the receiver with no input device?

A/V receivers can handle only the standard entertainment resolutions. The most popular ones are 1920x1080 @60Hz progressive (aka 1080p), 1200x720@ 60Hz progressive (aka 720p) and 640x480 @60 Hz, either progressive or interlaced. When nothing else is controlling the resolution (e.g. your computer's graphics output acting as the player device), the EDID returned by your monitor is supposed to tell the receiver which of those resolutions to use. If the monitor can't handle any of those resolutions, that might explain your problem.

It's a Nec LCD3210 - 1366 x 768 native resolution

640 x 480 at 60Hz to 85Hz
800 x 600 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1024 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1280 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1360 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz* to 85Hz
1280 x 1024 at 60Hz to 85Hz
1600 x 1200 at 60Hz....................... Maximum
* Recommended Resolution
NTSC/PAL/SECAM/4.43NTSC/PAL60 Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i

Frequency

Horizontal: 15.625/15.734kHz, 31.5kHz - 91.1kHz 31.5kHz - 91.1kHz
Vertical: 50.0/58.0 - 85.0 Hz 50.0/58.0 - 85.0 Hz
Pixel Clock 25.0MHz - 162.0MHz 25.0MHz - 162.0MHz

Colour: Over 16 million colours (depending on video card used)
Brightness: 500cd/m2 (Typ.)
Contrast Ratio: 600:1
Viewing Angle: Up 88°/ Down 88°/ Left 88°/ Right 88° (typ) @ CR>10

Complied Regulatory and UL60950-1/CSA C22.2 No.60950-1/ TUV-GS/EN60950-1
Guidelines FCC-B/DOC-B/EN55022-A/EN55024/EN61000-3-2/EN61000-3-3/CE
Power Management VESA DPM
Plug & Play VESA DDC2B, DDC/CI

I've had other monitors such as a 32 inch TV monitor from Sony that I purchased new, however it failed only after ~3.5 years

Some of these newer tv monitors that run under 5 - 6 hundred dollars don't seem to last. Their backlights often fail, plus they potentially have other problems. The LED backlights look promising when compared to the CCFL's

Computer monitors are often a better choice over TV monitors at least for durability and lifespan.

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post #11 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
It's a Nec LCD3210 - 1366 x 768 native resolution

640 x 480 at 60Hz to 85Hz
800 x 600 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1024 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1280 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz
1360 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz* to 85Hz
1280 x 1024 at 60Hz to 85Hz
1600 x 1200 at 60Hz....................... Maximum
* Recommended Resolution
NTSC/PAL/SECAM/4.43NTSC/PAL60 Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i

Frequency

Horizontal: 15.625/15.734kHz, 31.5kHz - 91.1kHz 31.5kHz - 91.1kHz
Vertical: 50.0/58.0 - 85.0 Hz 50.0/58.0 - 85.0 Hz
Pixel Clock 25.0MHz - 162.0MHz 25.0MHz - 162.0MHz

Colour: Over 16 million colours (depending on video card used)
Brightness: 500cd/m2 (Typ.)
Contrast Ratio: 600:1
Viewing Angle: Up 88°/ Down 88°/ Left 88°/ Right 88° (typ) @ CR>10

Complied Regulatory and UL60950-1/CSA C22.2 No.60950-1/ TUV-GS/EN60950-1
Guidelines FCC-B/DOC-B/EN55022-A/EN55024/EN61000-3-2/EN61000-3-3/CE
Power Management VESA DPM
Plug & Play VESA DDC2B, DDC/CI

I've had other monitors such as a 32 inch TV monitor from Sony that I purchased new, however it failed only after ~3.5 years

Some of these newer tv monitors that run under 5 - 6 hundred dollars don't seem to last. Their backlights often fail, plus they potentially have other problems. The LED backlights look promising when compared to the CCFL's

Computer monitors are often a better choice over TV monitors at least for durability and lifespan.
Somehow you need to persuade the receiver to output 720p, since that seems to be the best compatible resolution. My guess is that the receiver is being confused by the EDID provided by the monitor and is trying (and failing) to produce a video signal that's compatible.

If you can connect the computer you're using to access AVS to one of the receiver's HDMI inputs, then, before connecting it to the receiver, configure the computer to display its desktop at 1280x720@60Hz. Then when the computer video output is connected to the receiver, the receiver should generate a signal compatible with the monitor.

Of course, you'll have to reboot the computer after connecting it to the receiver so that it'll detect the receiver as a new display device.

Depending on your computer's graphics hardware, there probably are other ways to make this happen.


FWIW, your experience with TV reliability might just be bad luck. I've been using two TVs for more than six years as the primary display of the computer (laptop) that I'm typing to right now. I upgraded from a 24" 1080p Vizio to a 32" 1080p Sharp a couple of years ago, but that was just because I wanted a larger display, not because the Vizio was having problems. The Vizio is still in use as an alternative display in my HT.

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post #12 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 03:35 PM
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The audio line out on motherboards are weak and should never be used. If motherboard has optical audio out, use it.
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post #13 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Somehow you need to persuade the receiver to output 720p, since that seems to be the best compatible resolution. My guess is that the receiver is being confused by the EDID provided by the monitor and is trying (and failing) to produce a video signal that's compatible.

If you can connect the computer you're using to access AVS to one of the receiver's HDMI inputs, then, before connecting it to the receiver, configure the computer to display its desktop at 1280x720@60Hz. Then when the computer video output is connected to the receiver, the receiver should generate a signal compatible with the monitor.

Of course, you'll have to reboot the computer after connecting it to the receiver so that it'll detect the receiver as a new display device.

Depending on your computer's graphics hardware, there probably are other ways to make this happen.


FWIW, your experience with TV reliability might just be bad luck. I've been using two TVs for more than six years as the primary display of the computer (laptop) that I'm typing to right now. I upgraded from a 24" 1080p Vizio to a 32" 1080p Sharp a couple of years ago, but that was just because I wanted a larger display, not because the Vizio was having problems. The Vizio is still in use as an alternative display in my HT.
Perhaps you're right it's bad luck. The Sony replaced a Vizio that only lasted a short while before going belly up. After talking to a repair person I was told that usually 90 percent of the time it's the ccfls that burn out and need replacement.

I still have the Sony, when I have time I'll take it apart to inpspect the CCFL's if there starting to fail will usually have burnt spots. It's not that difficult of a repair, all that's normally required is to pull out the old ccfls and plug in new ones, tape them up and your done.
___________

I have the Denon Receiver connected to the Nec Monitors DVI input via a HDMI - DVI converter cable, DVI-D is pretty much the same as HDMI . The Denon manual mentions something it uses HDMI version 1.4a which has other capabilities and capable of higher resolutions.



My PC has a VGA (d-sub) connector. VGA native input and output is 1366 x 768 . The PC is connected to the NEC's VGA (d-sub) connector.

The Nec is capable of recognizing a video resolution of 1280 x 768 at 50Hz, 60Hz to 85Hz. It showed a error message something about the signal timing was off and unrecognizable.

I don't think the Nec would have any problem recognizing 1280 x 720 as it's capable of under and over res. variations

The Nec monitor is designed to accept all sorts of common video output from video equipment found in office environments to public places such as airports, train stations, etc. Is also capable of being daisy chained to other monitors to create a network of monitor each with their own network ID.

Must be some sort of timing issue conflict. Nec has been manufacturing video equipment a long time, founded in 1899 as the Nippon Electric Company, produces equipment that has become standard in the video industries.

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post #14 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nbp_civic View Post
The audio line out on motherboards are weak and should never be used. If motherboard has optical audio out, use it.
It's an older Thinkcentre with no optical out.

The receive has no manual controls most likely to save costs. Manual switches can significantly increase overall cost of a receiver. Perhaps Denon should have implemented a text composite output for it's RCA video out.

So without any video connection the Denon I hope still has a setup menu from it's own display?

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post #15 of 33 Old 02-11-2017, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
The receiver's sound volume is rated -80 db to 18 db
to understand this
reference level is at 0 (really loud)
0 to +18 is really pushing the receiver and can often distort

0 to -80 (negative 80) is the average used scale
so an 80 point scale working backwards from 0 (really loud)
0 minus 60 would be very very quiet

Audyssey is a great start, but not always a great finish.
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post #16 of 33 Old 02-12-2017, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
It's an older Thinkcentre with no optical out.

The receive has no manual controls most likely to save costs. Manual switches can significantly increase overall cost of a receiver. Perhaps Denon should have implemented a text composite output for it's RCA video out.

So without any video connection the Denon I hope still has a setup menu from it's own display?
Unfortunately, I think I found your problem: you need to upgrade the monitor to one which supports HDCP

The AVR 1612 does not generate any output if it is connected to a DVI device which does not support HDCP. See the Notes on page 6 of the AVR 1612's owner's manual, which can be downloaded from http://assets.denon.com/documentmast...al_avr1612.pdf This restriction is present in all HDMI-capable receivers that I'm aware of.

There is no mention of HDCP in the manual that I found for the NEC LCD 3210 at https://www.nec-display-solutions.co...al-english.pdf

NEC sells quite a few models which do include HDCP support, but the 3210 doesn't seem to be one of them. For example, it's not included in the list at http://www.nec-display.com/ap/en_display/pd/func02.html

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post #17 of 33 Old 02-12-2017, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Unfortunately, I think I found your problem: you need to upgrade the monitor to one which supports HDCP

The AVR 1612 does not generate any output if it is connected to a DVI device which does not support HDCP. See the Notes on page 6 of the AVR 1612's owner's manual, which can be downloaded from http://assets.denon.com/documentmast...al_avr1612.pdf This restriction is present in all HDMI-capable receivers that I'm aware of.

There is no mention of HDCP in the manual that I found for the NEC LCD 3210 at https://www.nec-display-solutions.co...al-english.pdf

NEC sells quite a few models which do include HDCP support, but the 3210 doesn't seem to be one of them. For example, it's not included in the list at http://www.nec-display.com/ap/en_display/pd/func02.html
Ok, I do have a Sony hdmi tv / monitor whose backlight Is going. Shouild stay on without flickering long enough to setup the receiver i.e. if it's compatible with the Denon.

I could upgrade the monitor however the Nec I would want to upgrade to is over $600.00 and the one I currently have was purchased new only a short while ago. In the past I've purchased several hdmi (name brand, such as Sony, etc) tv monitors and they have all failed. Perhaps the newer ones with LED backlights are better?

I remember reading somewhere that some of the Denons have a setup menu from the composite monitor output?

I'll temporarily connect the Sony tv/monitor with hdmi. Sony's website -

All Sony® TVs with an HDMI® connection support High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP).

However I think only some Sony's are compatible with HDCP version 2.2, which shouldn't be an issue?

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post #18 of 33 Old 02-13-2017, 03:58 AM
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Ok, I do have a Sony hdmi tv / monitor whose backlight Is going. Shouild stay on without flickering long enough to setup the receiver i.e. if it's compatible with the Denon.

I could upgrade the monitor however the Nec I would want to upgrade to is over $600.00 and the one I currently have was purchased new only a short while ago. In the past I've purchased several hdmi (name brand, such as Sony, etc) tv monitors and they have all failed. Perhaps the newer ones with LED backlights are better?
In principle, that should be the case.
Quote:

I remember reading somewhere that some of the Denons have a setup menu from the composite monitor output?
Page 4 of the manual shows that the 1612's only Monitor output is HDMI. The RCA composite output is only for passing through analog video from its s-video and composite inputs.
Quote:
I'll temporarily connect the Sony tv/monitor with hdmi. Sony's website -

All Sony® TVs with an HDMI® connection support High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP).

However I think only some Sony's are compatible with HDCP version 2.2, which shouldn't be an issue?
Right: that shouldn't be problem. Only 4K TVs use V2.2 and the 1612 is too old to support that version, anyhow.

Although the 1612's manual doesn't describe how to do it, some of the setup might be possible by watching the receiver's front-panel display. It wouldn't show all of the information that's available on its monitor output, though.

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post #19 of 33 Old 02-16-2017, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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In principle, that should be the case.

Page 4 of the manual shows that the 1612's only Monitor output is HDMI. The RCA composite output is only for passing through analog video from its s-video and composite inputs.

Right: that shouldn't be problem. Only 4K TVs use V2.2 and the 1612 is too old to support that version, anyhow.

Although the 1612's manual doesn't describe how to do it, some of the setup might be possible by watching the receiver's front-panel display. It wouldn't show all of the information that's available on its monitor output, though.
At this point in time I'm not going to upgrade a monitor in order to setup an audio receiver. There are other options. For my needs I would more likely get rid of the hdcp receiver and purchase a vintage analog audio receiver. I use to own several and the quality was very good, perhaps better than many of the modern digital receivers. All the controls are analog. Modern digital receivers often have no control switches so to keep a competitive price. Manual switches significantly increases the price of a receiver.

Denon I believe may have included a non-hdmi output setup menu display for some of their older receivers.

HDMI has some great advantages and improvements over the old standards. One of the primary reasons for hdmi development is plug and play technology. Hdmi is also capable of higher resolutions 1080p+ video, which is a significant improvement over VGA standards.

However many people are satisfied with their 720p, 1366 x 768 VGA displays even though not capable of true native 1080p resolutions. Higher and lower resolution are required to be up or downscaled from a standard VGA (d-sub) connection.

A fairly high bandwidth, unshared internet connection is normally required to stream higher resolutions above 720p. Overall the Internet is generally bogged down with high res video and advertisements. Of which a higher bandwidth connection may help to levitate some of the video and connection problems.

In the United States, 80 percent of Internet users had an average connection speed faster than 4 Mbps. Bump up to 10 Mbps, and the percent drops nearly to half (46 percent). Only one-fourth of the users Internet were faster than 15 Mbps. (Dec 18, 2015)

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Upgrading a new monitor to work with an inexpensive receiver would be rather silly. The AVR-1612 runs around ~$250.00 MSRP.
That's entirely your choice, of course. From my point of view, the monitor is for the computer, not the receiver, but it needs it to be compatible with whatever connection method you choose (HDMI/HDCP, in this case).

Perhaps the best option would be to use a TV temporarily so you can calibrate the receiver, then use the receiver strictly as an audio output device for the computer.

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That's entirely your choice, of course. From my point of view, the monitor is for the computer, not the receiver, but it needs it to be compatible with whatever connection method you choose (HDMI/HDCP, in this case).

Perhaps the best option would be to use a TV temporarily so you can calibrate the receiver, then use the receiver strictly as an audio output device for the computer.
The Nec monitor because it's not a HDCP monitor isn't compatible with the Denon receiver. It's model is 3210 the next model in line the 3215 is HDCP compatible.

Yes that's also my point of view, a monitor is designed to be used with a PC, a TV monitor is sometimes designed for both, a PC and TV signals such as from sat, over-air, cable, etc.

I purchased the Nec monitor as unused in it's original packaging off eBay Will most likely outlast the lifespan of my last three TV monitors combined. I find the overall quality is much better than my last three named brand tv monitors purchased new.

Often the problem now a days is many products have failure purposely built into their design. I guess it's sometimes termed planned obsolescence. e.g. TV's, Refrigerators, freezers, washing machines "generally" aren't built last or to be repaired. Often their built to last sometime past their warranty period. If the warranty has expired past the manufacture or extended warranty it's usually expected of you to purchase another.

I've purchased brand new well known named brand refrigerators and freezers only to have them fail just after their warranty periods ended. After a two year warranty a freezer could no longer be repaired because parts were no longer available and in production.

In comparison I once owned a refrigerator manufacture in the mid-50s that was still running well, keeping food both frozen and at the right temperature, after 50 years. Didn't have all the bells and whistles of modern refrigerators, did what it was suppose to do to keep food cold and frozen.

Audio equipment doesn't always "seem" to be quite as bad. Some appears to be better than average quality. However there's lots of short-cuts to reduce production costs, such as requiring a hdmi monitor as a method to setup and install, significantly reduces overall cost of a product. Another I recently noticed when my subwoofer failed is the input panels of sub-woofer design has changed, I suppose because of production costs. Input panels that normally used two PCB boards one for an amp the other for the driver have started to combine the two pcbs into one, which makes it impossible to only replaced the amp or the driver. If repairable repair costs are usually higher than previous, older input panels.

Generally our consciousnesses these days is geared towards having things fail and requiring replacement.

That wasn't true not very many years ago. Our consciousness was geared towards equipment, appliances and items to last 30+ years and if failure before ~30 years occurred there was a repair person available to perform repairs at a reasonable cost. At one time businesses and manufactures strived for both quality and endurance. Repair-ability was built into the design of most products. Not as often did people throw items out, exchange or trade them in.

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Durability is one of the distinctions between "enterprise class" and "consumer grade" computing equipment, in addition to the pricing, of course.

Quality consumer goods (by which I mean things like kitchen and home appliances) are available, too, to those who are willing to do the research and spend the money.

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Durability is one of the distinctions between "enterprise class" and "consumer grade" computing equipment, in addition to the pricing, of course.

Quality consumer goods (by which I mean things like kitchen and home appliances) are available, too, to those who are willing to do the research and spend the money.
I think the distinction is more often referred to "commercial grade" vs "consumer grade" Commercial grade products are designed to last as their normally used under conditions that are harsher and repetitive. Commercial grade products are more often used by professionals and job related. Have nothing to do with a home environment. Yes people do purchase commercial grade products for their home however this is usually an exception. Not very many people install into their home appliances such as stoves, refrigerators, freezers, etc. built and designed for a restaurant.

"enterprise class"? How many people go out to purchase products thinking there part of an "enterprise class"?

I don't like it when businesses start to assume humans can be split into two separate classes to sell their products. In years past the average person could purchase home products at a reasonable cost that was designed to last ~30 years and could be easily repaired. Buying things for your home you didn't really worry about things breaking and it's warranty.

Today's products manufactured for the majority of consumers most all have short warranties. Businesses actually lobbied to change laws that effected their warranties and the amount of time products needed to have support from their manufactures.

Many of the tv & pc monitor manufactures have recently reduced their previous three year warranty to one year.

I recently purchased a new Klipsch 12" subwoofer that comes with a Klipsch two year warranty and also an additional four year extended warranty that starts after the two year warranty expires. Extended warranties these days seem to becoming more of a norm. Products partially because of manufacturing methods and tooling are no longer able to be repaired as in years past. The majority of products are usually thrown out and replaced. There still are repairable items but often the cost to repair is the equal, more or a little less than purchasing a new product.

Everyone., i.e. all humans become a consumer no matter how much is spent. Possibly you might be able to bypass becoming a consumer by making your own products for your own needs, from raw materials. Today's society often sell you products based on other people needs who they deem as the ideal consumer of their products.

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What is considered "loud"? I listen at around 40-50 (on the 0-98 scale) with my Denon and it usually sounds plenty loud to me, but based on what I'm reading ITT that's considered low?
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What is considered "loud"? I listen at around 40-50 (on the 0-98 scale) with my Denon and it usually sounds plenty loud to me, but based on what I'm reading ITT that's considered low?
After running Audyssey, movie reference volume would be 80 with most listening to movies around 50-70.
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What is considered "loud"? I listen at around 40-50 (on the 0-98 scale) with my Denon and it usually sounds plenty loud to me, but based on what I'm reading ITT that's considered low?
Loudness is related to volume. The size of speakers and room size the sounds are reflecting from matters for the amount of "loudness".

I have a pair of 75 watt bookshelf speakers with 5.25" woofers and 1" tweeters in a smaller room. Cranking smaller bookshelfs up doesn't create as much "loudness" as when using larger speakers.

A perception of sound is primarily based on amplitude, secondly frequency. Both are precise measurements of sound rather than a perception.

Amplitude at certain and various frequencies (size of speakers) matters when the amount of loudness is of a concern. Cranking up certain speaker size(s) in relation to room size usually dictates the amount of loudness. However loudness is also a perception so one person sounds produced may seem loud while to another person normal. All of which may relate to the amount of wax is in a persons ears.

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To follow up on parts of the post. It took a while but a repair person was able to repair the SUB10 input panel. First the amp portion of the PCB was repaired, afterwhich the driver portion of the PCB was repaired. In all, including shipping, I have $145.00 invested in the Klipsch SUB10 subwoofer.

However for another $55.00 you can purchase a brand new Klipsch SUB12 for $200.00 & free shipping, comes with a 2 year manufacture warranty. For another ~$25.00 add an additional 4 year warranty (begins after the manu. warr. expires - total warranty - 6 years) the 4 year warranty includes free shipping (to and from your location.)

I now have two subwoofers and deciding whether I can use both or perhaps sell one, online or locally. Because of their size and weight can be expensive to ship.

As for the hdmi monitor and hdcp. After trying a powered hdmi splitter, the AVR setup menu is displayed as doubled, you can sort of read the menu, but essentially the pwrd splitter doesn't work and a passive hdmi splitter didn't work at all.

The only other option I can think of is to try a hdmi > component converter which has worked for some peoples monitors.

If the hdmi to component converter doesn't work I'll probably just give up and forget about it as I don't currently have any hdmi equipment to connect to the the Denon AVR four hdmi inputs. Basically any hdmi video and audio input is passed through to the hdmi monitor output and possibly other AVR ouputs.

Which is all just great if you have hdmi & hdcp compatible equipment.
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I now have two subwoofers and deciding whether I can use both or perhaps sell one, online or locally. Because of their size and weight can be expensive to ship.
When you have two identical subwoofers, you can even out the bass response throughout the room by placing the second sub where it fills in the nulls created by the placement of the first.

Quote:
As for the hdmi monitor and hdcp. After trying a powered hdmi splitter, the AVR setup menu is displayed as doubled, you can sort of read the menu, but essentially the pwrd splitter doesn't work and a passive hdmi splitter didn't work at all.

The only other option I can think of is to try a hdmi > component converter which has worked for some peoples monitors.
I don't recall if your monitor can decode component video. Many computer monitors require RGBHV. (I.E. RGB color space with both horizontal and vertical sync: a total of 5 signals.) In other words, an HDMI to VGA adapter.

At this point, all I can do is wish you lots of good luck.

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When you have two identical subwoofers, you can even out the bass response throughout the room by placing the second sub where it fills in the nulls created by the placement of the first.



I don't recall if your monitor can decode component video. Many computer monitors require RGBHV. (I.E. RGB color space with both horizontal and vertical sync: a total of 5 signals.) In other words, an HDMI to VGA adapter.

At this point, all I can do is wish you lots of good luck.
Yes, I don't know why I need to have luck to connect a stereo system, but I guess perhaps the current audio and video equipment is well beyond the years when I use to play 33's and 45's while trying to learn to play a piano. I've played various musical instruments and have had many artist friends some of who eventually became professional musicians. I can remember the days when the Beatles were under much skepticism, people deciding whether to keep purchasing their albums and playing their music.

One of the subwoofer is 10" while the other is 12". Subwoofers are ok however I think the system needs some more mid range audio.

Years ago I think in the late 60's and 70's it wasn't all that uncommon for audio / music enthusiasts to a have ~6 foot floor speakers, some being around 4 foot wide x 6'+ feet. tall. In those days I remember 300+ watts amps and receivers were fairly common, much of the audio equipment was fairly large and heavy.

______ Nec LCD monitor

Many of my monitor video inputs are BNC. The NEC LCD3210 is actually an economy model / version monitor I think originally retailed from ~1,500.00 to over $3,000.00 However prices have come down. There are 1080p versions for sale on eBay as low as around ~$700.00 with HDCP, HDMI, etc.

LCD3210, doesn't have modern bells and whistles but is designed to last in a working environment, often installed business offices, hospitals, trains stations, air ports, etc. is considered to be a presentation monitor for use in both private and public environments. Very little plastic is used to build the monitor, any plastic used is heavy duty, not the cheap plastic used with many of the more current modern monitors. Uses a heavy duty metal encasement and frame, with built-in thermostatically controlled fans and good venting.

______ inputs & outputs

2 RGB 1 IN (DVI-D) To input digital RGB signals from a computer. * This connector does not support analog input.

3 RGB 2 IN (mini D-Sub 15 pin) To input analog RGB signals from a personal computer or other RGB equipment.

4 RGB 3 IN [R, G, B, H, V] (BNC) To input analog RGB signals from a computer or other RGB equipment.

This is also to connect equipment such as a DVD player and
HDTV laser disk player. A Sync-on-Green signal can be
connected to the G connector.

5 RGB OUT (mini D-Sub 15 pin) To output the signal from RGB 2 or 3.

6 DVD/HD IN (BNC) Connecting equipment such as a DVD player, HDTV device, or Laser disc player.

7 AUDIO IN 1, 2, 3 To input audio signal from external equipment such as a computer, VCR or DVD player.

8 AUDIO OUT To output the audio signal from the AUDIO IN 1, 2 and 3 jack.

9 VIDEO IN/OUT VIDEO IN connector (BNC and RCA): To input a composite video signal. BNC and RCA connectors are not available at the same time. (Use only one input).
VIDEO OUT connector (BNC): To output the composite video signal from the VIDEO IN connector.
S-VIDEO IN connector (DIN 4 pin): To input the S-video (Y/C separate signal). See page 26, S-VIDEO MODE SETTING.

10 EXTERNAL CONTROL (mini D-Sub 9 pin) Use when operating the LCD monitor from the RGB equipment like a computer.

11 EXTERNAL SPEAKER TERMINAL
To output the audio signal from AUDIO 1, 2 or 3 jack.

The firmware allows to change various audio and video settings plus select different resolutions, clock & clock phase frequencies, vertical and horizontal position & resolution settings, zoom modes, Gamma selection, Scan conversion (progressive / interlaced), Brightness, contrast, sharpness, black levels, color control, color temperature, etc. I suppose settings found with most modern monitors.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb Ula View Post
Yes, I don't know why I need to have luck to connect a stereo system, but I guess perhaps the current audio and video equipment is well beyond the years when I use to play 33's and 45's while trying to learn to play a piano. I've played various musical instruments and have had many artist friends some of who eventually became professional musicians. I can remember the days when the Beatles were under much skepticism, people deciding whether to keep purchasing their albums and playing their music.

One of the subwoofer is 10" while the other is 12". Subwoofers are ok however I think the system needs some more mid range audio.

Years ago I think in the late 60's and 70's it wasn't all that uncommon for audio / music enthusiasts to a have ~6 foot floor speakers, some being around 4 foot wide x 6'+ feet. tall. In those days I remember 300+ watts amps and receivers were fairly common, much of the audio equipment was fairly large and heavy.

______ Nec LCD monitor

Many of my monitor video inputs are BNC. The NEC LCD3210 is actually an economy model / version monitor I think originally retailed from ~1,500.00 to over $3,000.00 However prices have come down. There are 1080p versions for sale on eBay as low as around ~$700.00 with HDCP, HDMI, etc.

LCD3210, doesn't have modern bells and whistles but is designed to last in a working environment, often installed business offices, hospitals, trains stations, air ports, etc. is considered to be a presentation monitor for use in both private and public environments. Very little plastic is used to build the monitor, any plastic used is heavy duty, not the cheap plastic used with many of the more current modern monitors. Uses a heavy duty metal encasement and frame, with built-in thermostatically controlled fans and good venting.

______ inputs & outputs

2 RGB 1 IN (DVI-D) To input digital RGB signals from a computer. * This connector does not support analog input.

3 RGB 2 IN (mini D-Sub 15 pin) To input analog RGB signals from a personal computer or other RGB equipment.

4 RGB 3 IN [R, G, B, H, V] (BNC) To input analog RGB signals from a computer or other RGB equipment.

This is also to connect equipment such as a DVD player and
HDTV laser disk player. A Sync-on-Green signal can be
connected to the G connector.

5 RGB OUT (mini D-Sub 15 pin) To output the signal from RGB 2 or 3.

6 DVD/HD IN (BNC) Connecting equipment such as a DVD player, HDTV device, or Laser disc player.

7 AUDIO IN 1, 2, 3 To input audio signal from external equipment such as a computer, VCR or DVD player.

8 AUDIO OUT To output the audio signal from the AUDIO IN 1, 2 and 3 jack.

9 VIDEO IN/OUT VIDEO IN connector (BNC and RCA): To input a composite video signal. BNC and RCA connectors are not available at the same time. (Use only one input).
VIDEO OUT connector (BNC): To output the composite video signal from the VIDEO IN connector.
S-VIDEO IN connector (DIN 4 pin): To input the S-video (Y/C separate signal). See page 26, S-VIDEO MODE SETTING.

10 EXTERNAL CONTROL (mini D-Sub 9 pin) Use when operating the LCD monitor from the RGB equipment like a computer.

11 EXTERNAL SPEAKER TERMINAL
To output the audio signal from AUDIO 1, 2 or 3 jack.

The firmware allows to change various audio and video settings plus select different resolutions, clock & clock phase frequencies, vertical and horizontal position & resolution settings, zoom modes, Gamma selection, Scan conversion (progressive / interlaced), Brightness, contrast, sharpness, black levels, color control, color temperature, etc. I suppose settings found with most modern monitors.
I was in a similar situation having purchased a refurbished Denon x3200w for my home theater room which only has a projector and didn't want to run the projector while running Audyssey so I purchased a HDMI to VGA adapter to connect an old early 2000 samsung monitor for calibration and it works fine ended up leaving it connected since I don't run my video signals through my receiver it is nice to have the monitor connected because I seem to get more info than just the receiver display.
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