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post #1 of 15 Old 03-04-2017, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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slim receivers

So the more I read and research the more I realize I know nothing about home audio. However after a few answered posts and some research I think I know what Im looking for. I started out thinking I might eventually want a full surround setup in my space but I now think that should be left to a dedicated theater room later on. So Id like to do a nice 3.1 setup and there is still a small chance I will do a couple surround speakers in the back in the soffit if I can get wires to them. The pic is of my tv cab I recently built. The shelves in the center section have approx 6 3/4" of space a little to tight for a standard receiver. I could always put a receiver in the side areas but I was hoping to make drawers for that space. So Im thinking a slim receiver is the way to go. The Yamah RX-S601 and the Marantz NR1607 are what I have narrowed it down to Im leaning toward the marantz because of the 7 hdmi inputs with hdcp 2.2 the yamaha only has 6 and only one is hdcp 2.2. However my concern with both of them is they both seem to be lacking in power. Im looking at some slim wall mount speakers something like the klipsch gallery or Definitive Mythos. I would get two large vertical speakers mounted on the sides of the tv and one large center horizontally below the tv and sub. The Marantz only has a power output of 50W per channel. That doesnt seem like enough for the speakers Im wanting. the Klipsch gallery g-28 for example lists 75W RMS / 300W Peak for power handling. I dont pretend to understand this but it seems like the marantz wouldnt be able to push the speaker to its full potential. Is that the case or will one of these two receivers be enough for a setup like this.
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-04-2017, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Muell67 View Post
Is that the case or will one of these two receivers be enough for a setup like this.
It is impossible for anyone to fully answer your question because what you personally deem "loud enough" may be another person's "that's a fraction of what I want."

Your best bet is to buy one from a dealer with good return policies.

50w/ch would probably be enough for me because I have neighbors to be concerned with. YMMV
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Last edited by m. zillch; 03-04-2017 at 09:36 PM.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 04:45 AM
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Both the klipsch and def tech speakers you are considering have high sensitivity ratings (90db +). Either receiver would easily drive them to very satisfying SPL without clipping. Furthermore the Marantz has preouts for the front L/R if you wanted to add additional power through external amplification. To sum up: no worries.

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses. I understand this can be a subjective thing. I guess Im looking for opinions on what people believe would be acceptable for themselves. Im just looking for better sound then my tv can provide not necessarily louder. It sounds like this should do it. Should I be looking for a active sub or a passive one? Im thinking active would be my best bet. I believe I wouldn't have to worry about the low 50w for the sub in that case correct?
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Muell67 View Post
I'm just looking for better sound then my tv can provide not necessarily louder.
Well as you are probably aware the amp's power measured it watts dictates the maximum volume you will hear in the room prior to it starting to distort if you crank it up too much. Amps in TVs are usually 10 watts or so, and rarely ever reach 20 or more, so if that volume level is acceptable to you (it is to me) then nearly any receiver should do the trick, especially if you plan on alleviating its need to reproduce the deep bass frequencies via an outboard powered sub (active), which is a good idea.

Powered subs all work equally well with any receiver that has a sub out port which all AVRs like the ones you are considering have. Don't go passive.

I own both a Yamaha and Marantz unit by the way and I recommend Yamaha largely for its superior ergonomics.
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muell67 View Post
Thanks for the responses. I understand this can be a subjective thing. I guess Im looking for opinions on what people believe would be acceptable for themselves. Im just looking for better sound then my tv can provide not necessarily louder. It sounds like this should do it. Should I be looking for a active sub or a passive one? Im thinking active would be my best bet. I believe I wouldn't have to worry about the low 50w for the sub in that case correct?
I hope that someone will correct me if I'm mistaken, but, as far as I know, no receiver has an output to drive a passive subwoofer. Receiver sub outputs are line level, and require a powered sub. (Or a passive sub with a separate power amp.)

No audio engineer here, but I believe that the main thing that requires a lot of amplifier power is the low-frequency content. If you use a subwoofer (or two), and efficient main speakers, you shouldn't need to approach the damage threshold to get enough sound.

(Different strokes, though. I knew a kid in my high school class who burned out at least one pair of over-the-ear headphones. He was wearing them at the time. In more recent years, he has been on disability due to mental health issues.)
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I own both a Yamaha and Marantz unit by the way and I recommend Yamaha largely for its superior ergonomics.
Unfortunately the Marantz has extra hdmi inputs and they are all hdcp2.2. This is important to me. Is the Yamaha superior in just setup or in everyday use as well?
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Muell67 View Post
Unfortunately the Marantz has extra hdmi inputs and they are all hdcp2.2. This is important to me. Is the Yamaha superior in just setup or in everyday use as well?
The Yamaha is not superior over the Marantz by any measure. Both receivers are good units. I have owned 4 Yamaha receiver's and now a Marantz receiver on my last purchase. Both companies have there advantages.

But between the Yamaha RX-S601 and the Marantz NR1607, the Marantz is clearly superior in my eyes.

Don't worry about the power ratings. 10 watts a channel difference will not be noticeable. 50 watts a channel will be more then enough to power efficient speakers to very loud listening levels.

For me, the Marantz's have superior ergonomics over the Yamaha's.
My Marantz is much easier to navigate thru sound modes and settings then my Yamaha's.

I never did like Yamaha's Cinama DSP sound modes! Many people get confused with these.

Audyssey in the Marantz is a big plus over YPAO in my opinion. It made a big difference in setting up my speakers and EQ for much better sound.

The Marantz NR1607 has 7 channels compared to the Yamaha 5 channels. plus 2 subwoofer outs compare to 1 on the Yamaha.
The Marantz NR1607 has video up conversion from anolog and hdmi sources.
The Marantz NR1607 has Dolby Atmos and firmware update for DTS-X for future proofing.
The Marantz NR1607 is HDR compatible for 4K tv's
The Marantz NR1607 has front L/R preamp outputs for connecting a external power amp if you think your speakers need more power.
The Marantz NR1607 remote is more user friendly and the OSD is very easy to use and navigate.
The Marantz NR1607 has a 3 year warranty compared to Yamaha's 2 year. But both are very reliable units. I have never had a issue with either one of them!

The Yamaha has a few advantages.

It does have Music cast. Many people like this feature.
Yamaha's AV controller app. is nice for your apple or android device.
Looks like it cost $100.00 less.

To me the Marantz NR1607 has a lot going for it for a slim line receiver! Much more then the Yamaha RX-S601 does.

Living room; Samsung PN60F5300B Plasma TV, Marantz SR5008 AVR, Sony UHP-H1 UHD Blu-ray, Definitive Mytho 2's fronts-wall mounted, Definitive Pro Center 1000 speaker, Definitive Di 5.5R in ceiling for surrounds, RSL speedwoofer 10s , Comcast Xfinity HD DVR box.

Garage; Sherwood RX-4105 2 channel stereo receiver, Samsung DVD-C500 CD player, Klipsch KG 2.5 med Oak speakers
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 02:37 PM
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Unfortunately the Marantz has extra hdmi inputs and they are all hdcp2.2. This is important to me. Is the Yamaha superior in just setup or in everyday use as well?
Everyday use as well.

The speed the Marantz volume ramps up and down is one of my biggest gripes. It isn't fixed it is variable. At lower volumes it ramps up/down way too quickly, so much so that at lower volume levels the only way to deal with it is to tap the remote button rapidly like Morse code so you don't get locked into the aggressively fast ramp mode and wake the family.

The YAMAHA has issues too, and the biggest is that there is a surround mode called "Standard". I've worked professionally in audio for decades and even I was confused and thought that meant : "The Standard, unadulterated, native signal such as Dolby 5.1 or perhaps stereo 2ch use, without added room reverberations (echoes)" Nope! It is the name of one of their silly surround modes I never use, complete with annoying echoes that have nothing to do with the movie.

The correct mode for a purist like me is called "Straight". Once you select this though you re good to go.

I also like Yamaha's "Scene" buttons. They are like "total situation presets". Even with the unit turned off you can either hit a button on the remote or front panel and that single keystroke takes care of everything:
-turns on
-goes to input of choice
-goes to surround mode of choice [straight]
-goes to other settings of choice

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Everyday use as well.

The speed the Marantz volume ramps up and down is one of my biggest gripes. It isn't fixed it is variable. At lower volumes it ramps up/down way too quickly, so much so that at lower volume levels the only way to deal with it is to tap the remote button rapidly like Morse code so you don't get locked into the aggressively fast ramp mode and wake the family.

The YAMAHA has issues too, and the biggest is that there is a surround mode called "Standard". I've worked professionally in audio for decades and even I was confused and thought that meant : "The Standard, unadulterated, native signal such as Dolby 5.1 or perhaps stereo 2ch use, without added room reverberations (echoes)" Nope! It is the name of one of their silly surround modes I never use, complete with annoying echoes that have nothing to do with the movie.

The correct mode for a purist like me is called "Straight". Once you select this though you re good to go.

I also like Yamaha's "Scene" buttons. They are like "total situation presets". Even with the unit turned off you can either hit a button on the remote or front panel and that single keystroke takes care of everything:
-turns on
-goes to input of choice
-goes to surround mode of choice [straight]
-goes to other settings of choice
The Marantz "Smart Select" buttons will accomplish the same task.
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The Marantz "Smart Select" buttons will accomplish the same task.
My Marantz doesn't have those.

My cursory examination of his unit's manual didn't seem to indicate it will power on the unit, just input, volume and such. It does that too?
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The speed the Marantz volume ramps up and down is one of my biggest gripes. It isn't fixed it is variable. At lower volumes it ramps up/down way too quickly, so much so that at lower volume levels the only way to deal with it is to tap the remote button rapidly like Morse code so you don't get locked into the aggressively fast ramp mode and wake the family.
I never experience this as a problem on my Marantz. In fact i always thought is was very precise. 1 db at a time with ease. Never had to morse code it. Very interesting you see it as aggressive? Go to show how opinions really do differ on these forums.

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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The YAMAHA has issues too, and the biggest is that there is a surround mode called "Standard". I've worked professionally in audio for decades and even I was confused and thought that meant : "The Standard, unadulterated, native signal such as Dolby 5.1 or perhaps stereo 2ch use, without added room reverberations (echoes)" Nope! It is the name of one of their silly surround modes I never use, complete with annoying echoes that have nothing to do with the movie.
Yep. This is what i was talking about. It confuses many people until you figure it out for yourself. It still confuses my friends who now own my Yamaha receiver's. This is why i mentioned the Marantz is more user/friendly for sure. Specially for new comers.



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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The Marantz "Smart Select" buttons will accomplish the same task.
i was just about to say the same thing.

Living room; Samsung PN60F5300B Plasma TV, Marantz SR5008 AVR, Sony UHP-H1 UHD Blu-ray, Definitive Mytho 2's fronts-wall mounted, Definitive Pro Center 1000 speaker, Definitive Di 5.5R in ceiling for surrounds, RSL speedwoofer 10s , Comcast Xfinity HD DVR box.

Garage; Sherwood RX-4105 2 channel stereo receiver, Samsung DVD-C500 CD player, Klipsch KG 2.5 med Oak speakers
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post #13 of 15 Old 03-05-2017, 06:12 PM
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I never experience this as a problem on my Marantz. In fact i always thought is was very precise. 1 db at a time with ease. Never had to morse code it. Very interesting you see it as aggressive?
Are you sure it is 1dB increments? Mines .5dB

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-06-2017, 05:25 PM
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Are you sure it is 1dB increments? Mines .5dB
If i hold the volume button up or down on the remote, it's goes in 1db increments from what i can tell on mine. But your correct, if you morse code it, it does go up or down by .5db. Never realized it.

Living room; Samsung PN60F5300B Plasma TV, Marantz SR5008 AVR, Sony UHP-H1 UHD Blu-ray, Definitive Mytho 2's fronts-wall mounted, Definitive Pro Center 1000 speaker, Definitive Di 5.5R in ceiling for surrounds, RSL speedwoofer 10s , Comcast Xfinity HD DVR box.

Garage; Sherwood RX-4105 2 channel stereo receiver, Samsung DVD-C500 CD player, Klipsch KG 2.5 med Oak speakers
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-06-2017, 05:40 PM
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My Marantz doesn't have those.

My cursory examination of his unit's manual didn't seem to indicate it will power on the unit, just input, volume and such. It does that too?
Correct. Smart Select buttons (equivalent to Denon Quick Select) were only first introduced with the 2014 models.
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