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5.1.4 with Denon x4300h vs x3300w +2ch atmos amp vs x3300w + 3ch LCR amp

11K views 35 replies 8 participants last post by  IVRINGS 
#1 ·
I found a similar discussion regarding the x6300h vs the x4300h + 2ch amp, but I couldn't find any discussion specifically about the x3300w and x4300h.

I'm trying to plan out a new 5.1.4 system and came up with the following so far:
Denon arv-x4300h
Klipsch rp-260f
Klipsch rp-450c
Klipsch rp-160m (pair) Side surround
Klipsch cdt-5650-C II x4 Atmos

After reading lots of threads on here, it seems pretty common for people to be running cheap external amps to add the Atmos channels if their receivers don't have enough internal amps. This drove me to looking at the x3300w as a possible option to save money. (Since I could technically use my old AVR as a free solution for the 2 Atmos channels.)

But then I started reading about running external 3 channel amps for LCR. And here's where I get a bit lost.

It looks like going with a x3300w over the x4300h would save about $400. Would it be possible to use that $400 to get an external 3 channel amp to run the LCR that would be significantly better than the internal x4300h amps while driving the above listed Klipsch speakers?

From what I can tell, it seems like the external LCR amp would really shine if it were driving a low efficiency speaker, but I'm thinking that there isn't much to gain by externally amping the high efficiency Klipsch rp-260f and rp-450c?

One note, is that I know that the x4300h adds the built in HEOS which isn't a huge value to me. So as far as I can tell the extra 2 internal amps is really the only difference I would see between the two receivers.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Edit:
"I'd snag a last generation x4200 and add a cheap 2ch amp like the Audiosource amp 100vs. I think that setup will suit you nicely and save you a big chunk of money versus going with the x4300. The x3300 will not process 5.1.4 so if you want 9 speakers, you'll have to step up to the 4xxx series."

You can save at least $600-800 going this route depending on where you buy. The amp is on sale now for $120 at Crutchfield:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AM...&awnw=g&awcr=102151385665&awdv=m&awug=9026064

And grab a cheap mono 3.5mm cable (ensure it's mono) for the trigger out from the receiver to amp.
 
#3 ·
The X3300 can't do 9 channels with or without an external amp. At least as far as I can tell by reading the manual. That and it only has output and pre-outs for 7 channels.
 
#5 · (Edited)
^ This.

@Sekosche EDIT: Oops you snuck your response in between mine😱. Kini62 is correct about the X3300. Your are correct about the X4300H.
 
#17 ·
Wow thanks for the comments. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

I started looking at this a few weeks ago and made a spreadsheet with features for the Denon models I was comparing. Not sure why I was mistaken, but I had written down that the x3300w was 9x processing and 7 amped channels.

While I have your attention, could I ask the same question but change the x3300w to the x4200w? Could you buy a $400 3ch LCR amp to use with an x4200w that would be a significant improvement over the internal x4300h amps?

The new audysesy app sounds like an interesting addition to the new models.
 
#21 ·
I have seen them at Fry's and A4L for roughly $700, not sure current pricing. It's still a great deal cheaper than a new x4300, which is your next cheapest option for a 9 speaker setup. For cost savings, you can just get the two channel amp I linked, unless you really want a 3 channel amp. The 3 channel amp, if used as L/C/R, will prevent the left and right speakers from going into sleep mode during extended dialogue heavy scenes when no signal is being fed to them (something that is a bit annoying on the amp 100vs).

Those Klipsch speakers are above average sensitivity, even with their listed sensitivity usually being in room response and not a true ground plane measurement. Depending on your room size and listening habits, the x4200 should easily drive those speakers to very loud and/or reference levels.
 
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#24 ·
I bought the X4200, and while a great unit, will only do .2 (coupled with 7.), plus the thing came in damaged from A4L.
Figured it was a consequence of buying last year's stuff, then went with the X4300, for a full .4 experience, glad I did...

YMMV ;)
 
#26 · (Edited)
That's too bad; I've heard of a few people getting lemons on their refurbs, but I've always had great luck with gently used items. I've bought 3 receivers from A4L, and even with an extended warranty added on to the X4200, still a huge savings over the X4300, and so far no problems and all were in like new condition. The X4200 does only have 7 on board amps but still processes 9 channels, and for $120 the audiosource amp 100vs does a great job extending its capabilities to a full 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 experience.

Though I still recommend getting the X4200 on clearance, I guess if I were in the market now for an X4200 or X4300 I would probably wait until the Denon App drops to see how much value it adds and whether or not that's worth paying roughly 50% more ($1K compared to $1.5K) versus last gen's model. To me, a 50% price increase for a single software feature, baring no other upgrades are desired (e.g., HEOS, 11 channel processing) is huge.

When I switched to the X4200, I chose to add a miniDSP 2x4 and an external amp for even more system flexibility at a much cheaper cost, rather than waiting on the X4300. For my needs, the X4200 does a great job. There are countless threads dedicated to the X4200 versus X4300, and the vast majority concluded that for most people the value of the X4200 is hard to beat.
 
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#27 ·
In summary then .....

Denon X3300W - 7CH model with max 7CH operating capability (ie. 5.2.2)

Denon X4200W - 7CH model that can expand to 9CH (ie. 5.2.4 or 7.2.2) using an external 2CH amp; however, will be unable to use the new Audyssey phone app nor will receive the Dolby Vision HDR update

Denon X4300H - 9CH model that can do 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 out of the box or can expand to 11CH (7.2.4) using an external 2CH amp and will be able to use the Audyssey phone app and receive the Dolby Vision HDR update, also includes a built-in HEOS module which currently allows using the HEOS app to stream the following music services (Pandora, Spotify, TuneIn, Amazon Music, DEEZER, Napster, iHeartRadio, SiriusXM, SOUNDLCOUD, TIDAL, Rhapsody, JUKE!, and AWA)
 
#29 ·
I've been going back and forth with everything myself. After talking with JD I'm sold on the 4300H myself. I don't want to have to upgrade or do anything later. The app to change the 2016 Models sold me along with allowing me 7.2.4 when I add the extra amp. I'm thinking I will grab a 2 or 3 channel amp to run the front stage and then let the AV unit run everything else. I think I can be happy with just 5.2.4, but if I wanted to go with 7.2.4 later I didn't want to have to update again. So I'm going with buy nice or buy twice. I'm just waiting till the 15th to order mine. JD has a deal that I couldn't pass up so looking forward to working with him.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for all the information everyone.

JD or Irving would you mind PMing me the details on the upcoming deal?

JD, do you sell Klipsch as well?
 
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