Help me buy more than I need - A/V Receiver - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-16-2017, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Help me buy more than I need - A/V Receiver

I could use some help deciding on an A/V receiver.
I am new to this so forgive me if I am using the wrong terminology.

I have a 70" 4K TV and I want to add a surround sound system and something for listening to music with.

I don't need networking, multi-room zones, and a lot of the bells and whistles.

After reading up and watching a LOT of videos I have narrowed it down to a Yamaha RX-A860

I think it will do what I need out of it but I can't help but think that for the same money I can get a better more powerful amp with fewer logos on it.

I do want the Dolby and DTS:X and most of the most popular formats but I won't use Atmos.

I would like to run a center channel in front of the TV but there isn't a lot of room so it will have to be link a thin long sound bar.

I would like to run two floor speakers on each side of the tv, two rear surround speakers on stands slightly behind the couch (one each side) and I think that's it.

The room is 16.5' wide and 13.5' deep. It has an 8' ceiling and is all drywall and tile. There isn't any popcorn on the ceiling or rugs on the floor. I know this is about as bad as it gets acoustically but it's what I have to work with.

The wall unit does not have any place for bookcase size speakers but there is space on top if a height channel might improve the movie experience.

I plan to do this in stages. I will buy a receiver and floor speakers at first and expand and funds become available.

I have all-ready pre-wired the walls and have extra wires pulled for possible future use.

So, is there something like the RX-A860 for about $900 max that might be a better fit with fewer bell and whistles that I will never use?

Thanks for the help and advice.
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post #2 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 09:47 AM
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If you're not interested in Atmos, maybe take a look at an AVR from 2016 or 2015 at Accessories 4 Less.

However, since you have what sounds to be a very bare, very reflective room it would be neglectful to advise you to put too much money into a surround sound system. Unless you are willing to at least put some rugs on the floor and some sound absorbing hangings on the walls, you are going to be disappointed in the final results.

Can you show as a few pics of the room?
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post #3 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 09:54 AM
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Personally, I've become a Marantz fanboy and will never buy anything else. For the same price you could get the SR5011 which is similar in features, but Marantz is generally higher regarded around here than Yamaha. Any modern receiver will be full of bells and whistles, doesn't mean you have to use them.

http://www.us.marantz.com/us/Product...oductId=SR5011

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post #4 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 10:13 AM
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Personally, I've become a Denon fanboy and will never buy anything else.

Hurry and get the last one:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

I have 2 Denon, and each of my 2 sons also have Denon. Denon is the shiznit...

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post #5 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 10:18 AM
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I hear great things about Denon also. Either would be a great choice! I'll have to remember that site, they've got some good deals over there.
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post #6 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
I hear great things about Denon also. Either would be a great choice! I'll have to remember that site, they've got some good deals over there.
Keep in mind if you want to pass the 4k video through the AVR, you'll need to be looking at only 2015 and newer models.
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post #7 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I originally picked a Denon then I read the many reviews that said they are not nearly as reliable as the Yamaha's so I switched.

The house is undergoing a remodel and the room is totally empty.

In the end we will probably put a rug down but not until some of the pets have passed. It's too nice a target and they all think rugs are pee pads. LOL!

Should I look again at Denon or Marantz? Was what I read about the reliability no longer valid?

Also, it's not so much about just not using all the extras it's about sacrificing copper for more logos on the box. lol
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post #8 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 03:14 PM
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I suggest either or. Just get a unit with Audyssey XT32. I've had no issues with any Denon except my 4310ci which was known to have issues and my 4311ci corrects them all.

But don't forget jdsmoothies comment about passing 4k signals thru it...regardless, use the AC4L link I provided for the Denon for Yamaha also. They have fantastic deals. PS...Every Denon in my family is a refurb...never an issue...don't be skeered.

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post #9 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 03:23 PM
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My receiver is for sound only. My PJ has a total of 1 device connected to it, a bluray player. So I don't care about 4k passthrough. I'm not even running 4k anyways. I also have no plans to upgrade anything. Why am I explaining all this? I have no idea. It's late in the day on a Friday and I'm just counted down the minutes to some green beer.

I'm so bored right now.
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post #10 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Decisions decisions. I went to Best Buy over the weekend to put my hands on all of them. I'm sure that I would be happy with any of them. It will be in a cabinet behind a mesh and you will never see it so what it looks like does not matter.

Since it's up high and in a cabinet the only interaction I will have with it will be via a remote control. So, now I think I should learn more about the remotes and which one is the easiest to use and works the best.

Thanks everyone for the help and sorry to hear you are bored drunkpenguin.

Oh, does anyone know how AC4L sells for so much cheaper than anyone else. The difference in price concerns me. Are they open boxes or used or demos or?????
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 01:50 PM
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Decisions decisions. I went to Best Buy over the weekend to put my hands on all of them. I'm sure that I would be happy with any of them. It will be in a cabinet behind a mesh and you will never see it so what it looks like does not matter.

Since it's up high and in a cabinet the only interaction I will have with it will be via a remote control. So, now I think I should learn more about the remotes and which one is the easiest to use and works the best.

Thanks everyone for the help and sorry to hear you are bored drunkpenguin.

Oh, does anyone know how AC4L sells for so much cheaper than anyone else. The difference in price concerns me. Are they open boxes or used or demos or?????
Unless you are at a magnolia Best Buy all you will see are the lower end models, certainly noting in the $900 range for an AVR. Looks wise they ALL look the same lol black rectangle of varying depths, the only difference is the display and how many knobs or buttons are on the front lol. In your price range they will ALL come loaded with bells and whistles no way around that. As for speakers towers are easy enough to work out, go listen to some different brands if you have the option and find one that has the "sound" you like. Once you have that come back and people can point you in the right direction brand wise, what you like in sound is VERY subjective. The problem I think you are going to have is in your wanting of a soundbar for a center. Most passive sound bars are going to want connections from your AVR's Left, Center and Right speaker connections to the back of the soundbar, if you do that with tower speakers you would be doubling your left and right speaker connections among 2 sets of speakers, the towers and the soundbar. Depending on the room you have you could go with a traditional center channel and mount it on the wall above the tv angled down towards your listening position or on the floor in front on a speaker stand. There are plenty speakers that are fairly low profile, like this Polk Signature that's only about 4.5" tall which is comparable in size to a soundbar with stand. I would defiantly go listen to some speakers first if possible that way you have a base line of what you do and do not like. You will also want to look into a sub or 2 as well.
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 02:00 PM
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Decisions decisions. I went to Best Buy over the weekend to put my hands on all of them. I'm sure that I would be happy with any of them. It will be in a cabinet behind a mesh and you will never see it so what it looks like does not matter.

Since it's up high and in a cabinet the only interaction I will have with it will be via a remote control. So, now I think I should learn more about the remotes and which one is the easiest to use and works the best.

Thanks everyone for the help and sorry to hear you are bored drunkpenguin.

Oh, does anyone know how AC4L sells for so much cheaper than anyone else. The difference in price concerns me. Are they open boxes or used or demos or?????
Be careful about enclosing your AVR in a cabinet. The AVR needs to breathe or it can suffer an untimely death.

I would never buy an AVR based on remote design...any respectable home theater setup should include a universal remote!

A4L offers a lot of "factory refurbished" units for well under MSRP...I assume these are the prices you are referencing. Refurbished units can be "open-box", returns, or units that have been returned and repaired. Some have had good luck with "refurbs", others not so much. Personally, I bought one refurb AVR (a Denon 2113) from A4L about 5 years ago and it is still running flawlessly to this day (in a friends home now).
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 02:22 PM
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i would never buy an avr based on remote design...any respectable home theater setup should include a universal remote!
yes yes 1000 times yes!!
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 02:32 PM
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My Denons are refurbs. Love 'em.

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post #15 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL! I think I touched on something over the remotes. LOL. As I was typing that I was thinking that was pretty stupid but still hit send.

Doh!

The Best Buy I went into had a room with a wall of units ranging from about $499 up to I think $1,499. I think they had 4 or 5 models of each brand to see. Unfortunately the system to try them out and select different speakers was not working. I will go back next weekend and try again.

I had no idea that speakers varied that much. I know there is junk but at some point up the price scale I don't think I will be able to tell the difference. I love music and movies but I'm also into muscle cars and that's where the money goes. LOL! So, I will try to go listen to some speakers. Oh, and my "soundbar" was probably a bad word to use. I want a true center channel not some one bar does nothing well thingy.
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post #16 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 02:55 PM
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^^^

Do not expect to hear much (if any) differences between comparably priced AVRs...they all pretty much sound the same these days. What makes the largest difference is the automatic room correction with Audyssey XT32 being the current gold standard, or Dirac if you've got the $$$.

Your choice in speakers is the number one factor that will determine the overall sound of your system, with the room you put them in being number two.
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 03:31 PM
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It will be in a cabinet behind a mesh....Since it's up high and in a cabinet the only interaction I will have with it will be via a remote control....
Good luck with that. My son has his in a cabinet, and manages not to have to fool with it much. He has to leave the doors open much of the time. Also, it's a real pain when he has to work on it or re-do a connection.

I would go nuts if I couldn't readily get to mine. I want to readily be able get to something on the back of the receiver.

Might work for you and others, doesn't work well for me.
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post #18 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the wall unit we have. I had a large Pioneer in the top left corner for almost 4 years while my dad lived with us.

I saw it the day I installed in and hooked it up and the next time I saw it was almost 4 years later when I took it out. I never once needed to touch it.

The mesh is very coarse in the front and there are a number of holes up high to let the heat out. If needed I can add more or a fan you can't hear from the couch.

Thanks for the tip on Audyssey XT32. I will see which of the receivers I am considering have it.

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post #19 of 30 Old 03-20-2017, 04:52 PM
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LOL! I think I touched on something over the remotes. LOL. As I was typing that I was thinking that was pretty stupid but still hit send.

Doh!

The Best Buy I went into had a room with a wall of units ranging from about $499 up to I think $1,499. I think they had 4 or 5 models of each brand to see. Unfortunately the system to try them out and select different speakers was not working. I will go back next weekend and try again.

I had no idea that speakers varied that much. I know there is junk but at some point up the price scale I don't think I will be able to tell the difference. I love music and movies but I'm also into muscle cars and that's where the money goes. LOL! So, I will try to go listen to some speakers. Oh, and my "soundbar" was probably a bad word to use. I want a true center channel not some one bar does nothing well thingy.
lol not so much on the universal remotes, but on the other hand if you have never used one like the Logitech Harmony and just remember the ones from a decade or more ago they are unbelievable now. I had not had one since the early dvd days and picked up a Harmony its the single greatest thing pretty much ever haha. You can program that bad boy to do almost anything and can legitimately throw all your other remotes in a drawer. About the only thing I use my stock tv remote for is accessing the smart tv functions but that has more to do with the keyboard on the back of the remote. I have been meaning to pick up an extra one for my living room. Don't totally knock soundbars though, if you dont have the room for a full AVR set up they are pretty nice. I have a vizio one with a wireless sub in my room attached to my 60" vizio 4k tv and it does a pretty great job. It can certainly get louder than I need, I give up before it does and there is no distortion.
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post #20 of 30 Old 03-22-2017, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again everyone for the help. I will look into the new remotes. My last experience with a universal remote has to be 10-15 years ago and I thought it was a joke and stopped using it.

So, I think I might go crazy after all and buy more than I need so that if I really get into this I have room to grow.

This is what I am leaning towards now.

Marantz SR6011 (refurbished)

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html
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post #21 of 30 Old 03-22-2017, 12:32 PM
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Thanks again everyone for the help. I will look into the new remotes. My last experience with a universal remote has to be 10-15 years ago and I thought it was a joke and stopped using it.

So, I think I might go crazy after all and buy more than I need so that if I really get into this I have room to grow.

This is what I am leaning towards now.

Marantz SR6011 (refurbished)

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html
Well I can tell you this much with 100% certainty. If your last experience with a universal remote was 10+ years ago you have no idea what kind of HEAVEN you will be in with any of the Harmony remotes. They are in my opinion what universal remotes should have ALWAYS been. The only drawback is you need a computer to program them, it does so via usb, and you will need the brand and model numbers of all the equipment you want it to control. So things like TV, AVR, Cable box, DVD/blu ray player etc. It will recreate about %98 of the stock remotes functions. That includes menu access for tvs, switching sources on AVR's etc. I set my moms up and on the Harmony I got her, one of the lower end models which still can control like 11 devices, has 20 "pages" on the built in LCD screen just for various functions for her AVR. Everything from surround types, sources to radio presets etc. They are outstanding. In her living room she hits 1 button called watch tv, and it turns on her tv, cable box, avr, switches to the correct avr source, the volume button on the remote controls the avr volume, the channel buttons control the cable box, and you can set up multiple activities like that, one for tv, one for movies, on for music one for games so on and so on.
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post #22 of 30 Old 03-23-2017, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I am ready to order my first part of my new system. Marantz SR6011 (refurbished) from A4L

What is everyone's thought on the extended warranty's they offer? Has anyone ever filed a claim and had good luck?
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post #23 of 30 Old 03-27-2017, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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It's done. I pulled the trigger on a Marantz SR6011 for $899 from A4L

Now, I need to figure out if I really screwed up the wiring on the house. I pulled 14 AWG CL2 wire in the theater room and in another room. Now I am reading up on sub woofers I think I'm hosed and should have run a RCA type shielded cable.

The drywall has been patched, textured and painted. There isn't any changing the wires now. Am I screwed?

Oh and yes, I pulled extra wires every place for future use or if something happens to a wire.

Thanks
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-27-2017, 11:01 AM
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Now, I need to figure out if I really screwed up the wiring on the house. I pulled 14 AWG CL2 wire in the theater room and in another room. Now I am reading up on sub woofers I think I'm hosed and should have run a RCA type shielded cable.

The drywall has been patched, textured and painted. There isn't any changing the wires now. Am I screwed?

Thanks
A lot of people use wireless set-ups for their subwoofers in place of a long and inconvenient cable, just do a search...it's a bit more money to spend but an easy fix if you don't wanna try hiding a cable stretched across the room.
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-27-2017, 11:14 AM
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It's done. I pulled the trigger on a Marantz SR6011 for $899 from A4L

Now, I need to figure out if I really screwed up the wiring on the house. I pulled 14 AWG CL2 wire in the theater room and in another room. Now I am reading up on sub woofers I think I'm hosed and should have run a RCA type shielded cable.

The drywall has been patched, textured and painted. There isn't any changing the wires now. Am I screwed?

Oh and yes, I pulled extra wires every place for future use or if something happens to a wire.

Thanks
Well depending on where you are locating the sub the wire isn't a big deal. It is just a single rca cable and as long as you are not doing a very long run, say over 20ft, ANY rca cable will do. There is very little power sent down a LFE cable to the sub.
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post #26 of 30 Old 03-27-2017, 12:54 PM
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Be careful about enclosing your AVR in a cabinet. The AVR needs to breathe or it can suffer an untimely death.

I would never buy an AVR based on remote design...any respectable home theater setup should include a universal remote!

A4L offers a lot of "factory refurbished" units for well under MSRP...I assume these are the prices you are referencing. Refurbished units can be "open-box", returns, or units that have been returned and repaired. Some have had good luck with "refurbs", others not so much. Personally, I bought one refurb AVR (a Denon 2113) from A4L about 5 years ago and it is still running flawlessly to this day (in a friends home now).

"[QUOTE=Alan P;51650881]Be careful about enclosing your AVR in a cabinet. The AVR needs to breathe or it can suffer an untimely death. "

Yes, unless you buy ventilating fan's for the cabinet and perhaps the AVR,

Cheers
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post #27 of 30 Old 09-21-2017, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, it's all set up and running. I am new to this and still have much to learn. The system sounds great to me and I know the rear speakers are not in the best place but it's my only choice.

I have to admit that I'm really disappointed in the Dolby Atmos. I bought all the upward firing Pioneer speakers and I think I wasted my money. I should have just upgraded the speakers to better non Atmos enabled speakers. I have watched Atmos movies and downloaded the Atmos demo Blu Ray and I don't hear it. I get a nice surround effect but zero height.

What a bummer!
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-22-2017, 11:58 AM
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You may get better effects from those upfiring Atmos modules if you pulled the speakers out into the room some more. I can't say for sure, I don't have an Atmos system (yet!).

I can say for certain that your center channel placement is far from optimum. Being that close to the ceiling, you are almost certainly getting some horrible reflections, stifling and distorting the dialogue. Looking at your entertainment center, I can't really offer any better suggestions though. Maybe on a stand in front of the cabinet...?
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post #29 of 30 Old 09-24-2017, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DosTurbo View Post
Well, it's all set up and running. I am new to this and still have much to learn. The system sounds great to me and I know the rear speakers are not in the best place but it's my only choice.

I have to admit that I'm really disappointed in the Dolby Atmos. I bought all the upward firing Pioneer speakers and I think I wasted my money. I should have just upgraded the speakers to better non Atmos enabled speakers. I have watched Atmos movies and downloaded the Atmos demo Blu Ray and I don't hear it. I get a nice surround effect but zero height.

What a bummer!
1. The "side" surround speakers are in a good location for "surround" duty, however, as you have learned, much to close for any "side" surround Atmos effect.
2. The benefit of purchasing separate upward firing modules is that you can move them around and angle them up/down much easier so as to provide the most effective "height" effect. In some instances, having to place them on stands a good 3' in front of the towers. However, as Paul suggests, your only option is to physically move the whole tower speakers (likely closer), but you'll have to experiment to determine their best location. In the end, you may decide to scrap the Atmos connections and simply place the towers for proper Front L/R presentation.
3. The center speaker should be pulled out to the edge (if not slightly farther) and wedged in the back so that it points at your head. Another option to consider is moving the center speaker and placing it on top of the top center cabinet drawer (pulled out) and angling it up towards your head. Run Audyssey again after finalizing all speaker physical location and placement.
4. The SR6011 appears to be tucked into the leftmost upper cabinet shelf which unfortunately is where it will likely die a slow death if there isn't sufficient ventilation provided (ie. if the back is closed, a hole should be cut out and a fan used to exhaust the warm air, or if the cabinet is flush to the rear wall, the air needs to be exhausted to the front of the AVR). Presumably, the shelf front door is open and not glass (cannot tell from image).

Further questions regarding the SR6011 should be posted in the 2016 Marantz Owner's thread linked below:

*Official* Marantz 2016 NR-1607, SR-5011/6011/7011 owner's thread

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 09-24-2017 at 01:37 AM.
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post #30 of 30 Old 10-14-2017, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the input.

I removed the Polk center channel from the top, removed a drawer from the cabinet below the TV and installed a Pioneer Elite center channel. It sounds better in that location but I'm still getting zero height effects. Is there any way to get my hands on some test blue-ray or DVD to help confirm it's working? The surround effect is great. The height effect is non existent.

Both the front and rear speakers are the Pioneer Elite Atmos enabled upward firing speakers. I don't want to clutter the room up and I don't have a lot of space. Maybe I should have installed speakers in the ceiling instead?

Oh, the entire back wall has been cut out for ventilation behind the Marantz. It's warm up there and I might put a thermostatic controlled fan on the top of the cabinet.
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