MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 906 Old 05-03-2017, 04:20 PM
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It is a bit puzzling that the crossover selections are inconsistent since the mobile app is simply acting as a control interface. I believe the AVR actually performing REQ filter calculations whether the app is used or not.

Perhaps an upcoming revision will address this in the way Audyssey Pro does. Audyssey Pro reveals the crossover recommendations and allows you to make changes BEFORE the REQ filters are calculated and applied. It even lists the alternate choices in order of Audyssey's recommendations in the pull-downs.

The difference with Pro though is that the Audyssey REQ filters are calculated by the PC and uploaded to the AVR/AVP AFAIK.
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post #452 of 906 Old 05-03-2017, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Day View Post
I did receive a reply from Chris at Audyssey via Twitter who states that Audyssey doesn't set the crossover - the AVR does. However, if the calibration is being done outside the AVR (by the app), then who or what does set the crossovers?
Ya that's weird... hope they resolve this in the coming fix



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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It is a bit puzzling that the crossover selections are inconsistent since the mobile app is simply acting as a control interface. I believe the AVR actually performing REQ filter calculations whether the app is used or not.

Perhaps an upcoming revision will address this in the way Audyssey Pro does..
Precisely. Hope so too

Last edited by sevenz; 05-03-2017 at 10:15 PM.
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post #453 of 906 Old 05-04-2017, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Today I listened to music with midrange comp off and vocals were too bright, so it's back to the curve with a 400 Hz cutoff. Have yet to listen to Rolloff 2; might try that tomorrow but expectations it will tame the harsh vocals are low. App has been very stable. Hope to soon read Mark's findings.
It eq is stopped at 400 then mid-range comp will always be off I think. I think eq cutoff will overrule the mrc setting
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post #454 of 906 Old 05-04-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
It eq is stopped at 400 then mid-range comp will always be off I think. I think eq cutoff will overrule the mrc setting
Agreed. Very happy listening to music with the 400 Hz cutoff curve, so i didn't bother w/HF rolloff 2.

Last edited by bmcn; 05-04-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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post #455 of 906 Old 05-04-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 310Turbo View Post
Lol good to know, it was about 3am and I was just so jazzed about getting it working together. Didn't even think to check what MV I was at.
If you came from a model that was 2 years or older ago, this is a new change they implemented in the past few years. Where previously you entered the test tone menu it automatically defaulted to 0.0 dBref. Now you have to manually turn it up yourself. It threw me off the first time as well, but once I figured out what was going on, I actually like the idea.

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Second that thought... its a shame to be honest. I think this is Marantz way of saying you spent 4K means you can spend more on the version next year!!
I also bought this in jan this year based on info from a reputed dealer that this feature will be supported. But alas...
Nope, it was never said that the app would be available on the 8802 unfortunately. The reputable dealer notwithstanding. The 8802 still has audyssey pro capability, which they did away with to make room for the new app in the newest models from D+M.

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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
I've noticed midrange comp to be good with a loud action movie (e.g., saving private Ryan) with loud volume levels. Otherwise, I always have it on flat. But if there's a lot of higher pitched machine gun sounds, that can get too distracting (grating) at higher volumes. Interestingly, I recently watched an episode of home theater geeks. Scott Wilkinson was interviewing Paul Hayes of Pro Audio, who was talking about his preferred curve for home theater. He didn't believe that in the specific context of home theater, flat always sounded better or accurate. His recommendation seemed to mimic a lot of what the audyssey tweakers have mimicked (small increase down low, small roll off up high).


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This has been proven time and again that a truly flat (audyssey) response curve is actually the least preferred in blind testing. Our ears don't perceive sound on a flat FR either so this should be no surprise.

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post #456 of 906 Old 05-04-2017, 05:00 PM
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Yeah, I don't like flat, either. It's too bright for me, but everyone has their preference.
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post #457 of 906 Old 05-05-2017, 10:51 PM
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How's that review coming along?
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post #458 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
App should be fine with the Note 4.

App requires IOS8 w/Apple which I believe can run on the iPhone 4s (but not well IME). I would recommend iPhone 5 at a minimum.
The app didn't work with the Note 4 when the app first came out and showed as not compatible; I tried to download the app when it came out and it was a no go with the Note 4. So, based on your response, they updated the app so that it now works with the Note 4, correct.

Thanks

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post #459 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 10:16 AM
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Im also curious about the review ☺
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post #460 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methodical_1 View Post
The app didn't work with the Note 4 when the app first came out and showed as not compatible; I tried to download the app when it came out and it was a no go with the Note 4. So, based on your response, they updated the app so that it now works with the Note 4, correct.

Thanks
No, my response was an ASSumption. I do not know of any update to fix an issue with the Note 4.
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post #461 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 12:10 PM
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If the Note 4 is at least 2gb, HAMMER THEM about it working.
I think they did a different Phone within 24hrs.
Maybe should check again.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #462 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 02:58 PM
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I believe @imagic is concurrently reviewing several products right now, plus he's had a lot of requests for specific things. I'm sure he's enjoying himself, but he's probably taking a ton of notes, and it will probably take a while to sort everything out into reviews.

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post #463 of 906 Old 05-06-2017, 07:34 PM
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Can someone link the FAQ section of the App, thanks I haven't downloaded it yet as I'm waiting on a iPhone upgrade 7?
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post #464 of 906 Old 05-07-2017, 10:47 PM
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Just thought would like to share my result, see how the Audyssey App. is acting differently and inaccurate compairing to the old Audyssey using the AVR.
in the subwoofer graph: (Blue Curve-Audyssey App.) (Red Curve- old Audyssey. AVR.)
Crossovers: first picture (AVR. old Audyssey) Second picture (App. Audyssey)
Both calibration are from exactly the same spot/location

Hopefully if there is some body from Audyssey onboard that maybe can explain why this differents result, specially with the crossover.
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post #465 of 906 Old 05-07-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
It is a bit puzzling that the crossover selections are inconsistent since the mobile app is simply acting as a control interface. I believe the AVR actually performing REQ filter calculations whether the app is used or not.
i think it work this way , the App. receive the measurments reading data from the AVR. but all the calculations for theEQ filters are done within the app. and then send back to the AVR. infact Audyssey are not activated in the AVR. before u send the measurments data from your mobile App. both the App. and the AVR. Version measure quite differently (see the photos i have posted)

Last edited by marco1975; 05-08-2017 at 03:15 AM.
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post #466 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
i think it work this way , the App. receive the measurments reading data from the AVR. but all the calculations for theEQ filters are done within the app. and then send back to the AVR. infact Audyssey are not activated in the AVR. before u send the measurments data from your mobile App. both the App. and the AVR. Version measure quite differently (see the photos i have posted)
Cool. Then chances are good that in a future revision they will allow the x-overs to be set within the app before calculations.
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post #467 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 09:41 AM
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On the one hand, you guys are depressing me because I thought this was going to a good tool for my system and make my upgrade path obvious.

On the other hand, you guys have just saved me $1000 (which is what I would have to spend, after selling my current 6010, to get what I'd want) so my bank account is happy.
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post #468 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
On the other hand, you guys have just saved me $1000 (which is what I would have to spend, after selling my current 6010, to get what I'd want) so my bank account is happy.
for now and as its ,i would say u doing the right thing! i sold my Denon 7200WA , and then bought the Marantz 7011, just because i was looking forward to calibrate and further tweak my system with this App. have tried it and its not worth it.
iam back using the old Audyssey, and i have just re-calibrated my system.
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post #469 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Cool. Then chances are good that in a future revision they will allow the x-overs to be set within the app before calculations.
That would be a nice bonus, still this App. needs some others fixes beside that.
Notes how the App. (Blue Curve) dealing with the peak i have around 32HZ? and why the rolloff at 20HZ? beside that the App. is allways setting the subwoofer level 5+ hotter than the old audyssey. also i have notes that the system over all sounds its much more louder than the old audyssey.
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post #470 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 01:27 PM
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marco1975, Can you please explain how you did your comparison?
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post #471 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
That would be a nice bonus, still this App. needs some others fixes beside that.
Notes how the App. (Blue Curve) dealing with the peak i have around 32HZ? and why the rolloff at 20HZ? beside that the App. is allways setting the subwoofer level 5+ hotter than the old audyssey. also i have notes that the system over all sounds its much more louder than the old audyssey.
Interesting. Wondering if that is an intended effect. The effect would definitely not be flat. Our hearing starts to diminish below 20z (we can feel it but normally one needs much more power to make a difference).

What model/make/size of sub are you using?
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post #472 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
Interesting. Wondering if that is an intended effect. The effect would definitely not be flat. Our hearing starts to diminish below 20z (we can feel it but normally one needs much more power to make a difference).

What model/make/size of sub are you using?
u are right about our hearing start to diminish below 20HZ , but then what they should do is try to compensate for that by boosting (if your system is up to the task) and not putting a rolloff, or just leave it as its. just like the AVR. Audyssey Version do (see red curve)
i have 2 x SVS SB13 Ultra and they can play comfortably all the way down to around 12HZ in my room.
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post #473 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post
marco1975, Can you please explain how you did your comparison?
Sure, first calibration was done with the Audyssey App. using all 8 position, during the calibration i was marking each mic. position.
and then second calibration was done using the AVR. Old Audyssey, and i was placing the mic. in exactly the same spot/point for all 8 postion from the first calibtation.
i hope that have answered your question, please let me know if i forgot something.
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post #474 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 04:29 PM
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I actually like what the app is doing yes there is still work to be done like the crossover issue my center main and atmos speakers full range but my dipoles are coming in as 150 instead of the usual 80-110. I feel the center speaker vocals are clearer than the MKII with Audyssey pro.


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post #475 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 04:29 PM
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But I did not use the stander we mic positions I used the closer mic grouping.


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post #476 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
u are right about our hearing start to diminish below 20HZ , but then what they should do is try to compensate for that by boosting (if your system is up to the task) and not putting a rolloff, or just leave it as its. just like the AVR. Audyssey Version do (see red curve)
i have 2 x SVS SB13 Ultra and they can play comfortably all the way down to around 12HZ in my room.
You would think however boosting the below 20 hz will steal the sub amp of much power that can be used more efficiently for the higher sub frequency range. The app is boosting the 25 to 35 hz range and sacrificing the below 20 hz range. Looking at your charts this looks very clear. Maybe they did this thinking that many users may not have capable subs for the under 20 Hz region (ie avoid port noise, and sub bottoming out etc.) when volumes are raised. But someone with capable subs should not have to be punished.

Or it could just be that the App program needs to be fixed. The crossovers themselves look really off using the App.

Can you not just boost the curve in the App for the below 20 hz range and lower the 25 Hz to 35 hz range to compensate?
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post #477 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
Sure, first calibration was done with the Audyssey App. using all 8 position, during the calibration i was marking each mic. position.
and then second calibration was done using the AVR. Old Audyssey, and i was placing the mic. in exactly the same spot/point for all 8 postion from the first calibtation.
i hope that have answered your question, please let me know if i forgot something.
Yes that is what I wanted to know. Did you just leave your REW mic in place? If I do comparisons I will only use the first mic position. Then I can leave both mics exactly where they are. But I just need the app to run without crashing.
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post #478 of 906 Old 05-08-2017, 06:22 PM
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App is stable on iPhone 6s plus


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post #479 of 906 Old 05-09-2017, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
You would think however boosting the below 20 hz will steal the sub amp of much power that can be used more efficiently for the higher sub frequency range. The app is boosting the 25 to 35 hz range and sacrificing the below 20 hz range. Looking at your charts this looks very clear. Maybe they did this thinking that many users may not have capable subs for the under 20 Hz region (ie avoid port noise, and sub bottoming out etc.) when volumes are raised. But someone with capable subs should not have to be punished.

Or it could just be that the App program needs to be fixed. The crossovers themselves look really off using the App.

Can you not just boost the curve in the App for the below 20 hz range and lower the 25 Hz to 35 hz range to compensate?
Iam not saying that they should boost belw 20HZ per se , but don,t put a rolloff either , u have said it your self why should someone with capable subs get punished for it.
by the way , the boost u seeing in the graph around 25-35HZ that has nothong to do with the app. boosting or anything like that, its just the natural bass response in my room , actaully i have 2 peaks there , huge one at 33HZ and another small one at around 26HZ. its just the app are not realy doing great job at ironing those peaks like the old Audyssey do.
the curve editor in the app. is useless for this kind of work , i mean when u have to work with very small range. because boosting at 20HZ will mostly also boost 30HZ as well not effective belw 20HZ, and lowering 30HZ will also lower 20HZ anyway i could do this with an external EQ. and i have tried it , but then again what is the point when its messing up the crossover for my speakers big time.
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post #480 of 906 Old 05-09-2017, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
Yes that is what I wanted to know. Did you just leave your REW mic in place? If I do comparisons I will only use the first mic position. Then I can leave both mics exactly where they are. But I just need the app to run without crashing.
what i did exactly was that , after the first calibration , i put the tripod in the first position(main listening position) removed the Audyssey mic. from the tripod and then mount my Umik-1 mic. took a reading with Rew, and did the same thing with the second cailbration.
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