MultEQ Editor: New App for Denon & Marantz AV Receivers & Pre/Pros - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Got the X4300H, figure I'll make an unbox, setup, and configuration video along with first impressions—today. New thread coming soon...

I've got a nice Atmos-enabled speaker system in for review with DefTech BP-9060 towers up front, BP-9040s in the rear—all four with Atmos modules on top. While the DefTech review will be 5.0.4—even the DefTech center has a powered "sub" in it—the Audyssey Editor app review will look no fewer than FIVE different subwoofer integrations. First, I'll integrate the dual JL Audio F112s (my reference subs) that are located along the side walls of my listening room. Then, I'll concentrate on integrating a variety of single subwoofers including an SVS SB13-Ultra, a Power Sound Audio 15V, and a KEF R400b. Finally, I'll see if the system can properly EQ and integrate my SumpSub DIY subwoofer that I've been storing uncovered in my back yard for about two years—a torture test the likes of which no other sub I have reviewed could survive.

So stand by, this AVR and this app make it so much easier for me to get results that other enthusiasts can relate to, and that are germane to systems where the primary goal of room correction is to get a subwoofer to behave and perform its best. No more $1000 Dirac box and then still having to run MCACC because I don't have enough channels to do Atmos. And of course before the app users of consumer-level Audyssey could not perform that one most basic thing Dirac lets you do, which is restrict the freq. range than it applies EQ to. Really, that's all I even needed.
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post #212 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
...And of course before the app users of consumer-level Audyssey could not perform that one most basic thing Dirac lets you do, which is restrict the freq. range than it applies EQ to. Really, that's all I even needed.
For those on the fence between Dirac and Audyssey for 2 channel + sub(s) listening it would be good to read your comments comparing eq results.
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post #213 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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For those on the fence between Dirac and Audyssey for 2 channel + sub(s) listening it would be good to read your comments comparing eq results.
I agree. I'll do that as well. In addition to running BP-9060s in stereo, I'll toss in a bunch of speakers that I have lined up to review: Power Sound Audio MT110s, B&W CM6 S2, MarkAudio SOTA Viotti One. And for fun I can toss the Monoprice 15" PA speakers into the mix, plus my personal favorite mid-range residential 2-way towers speakers, the GoldenEar Triton Fives.

Lots of work, but also lots of fun so I hope you all come along for that ride. Getting started right after lunch today.

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post #214 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Got the X4300H, figure I'll make an unbox, setup, and configuration video along with first impressions—today. New thread coming soon...



So stand by, this AVR and this app make it so much easier for me to get results that other enthusiasts can relate to, and that are germane to systems where the primary goal of room correction is to get a subwoofer to behave and perform its best. No more $1000 Dirac box and then still having to run MCACC because I don't have enough channels to do Atmos. And of course before the app users of consumer-level Audyssey could not perform that one most basic thing Dirac lets you do, which is restrict the freq. range than it applies EQ to. Really, that's all I even needed.

It would be great if you could show how (if?) it's fairly easy to work around the app's primary current shortcoming (no channel grouping) and set up a target curve that rises from 250Hz down to 60Hz, ie rises through the mains-subs crossover.

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post #215 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
It would be great if you could show how (if?) it's fairly easy to work around the app's primary current shortcoming (no channel grouping) and set up a target curve that rises from 250Hz down to 60Hz, ie rises through the mains-subs crossover.
Will do...
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post #216 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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How do you do that? I can't find any setting that would completely turn off eq for the bed speakers while fully applying it to the heights.
You select which speakers you want to run ARC on before you run it. If you have already run ARC on all of them, you can't turn it off.
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post #217 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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What it comes down to is... If I'm going to make such a major change in the system I use for room EQ, I definitely want to have a good idea of what it's doing and how effective it is versus Dirac.

This is ultimately going to be a complex endeavor and encompass numerous speaker and sub reviews, which I will link to from the MultEQ Editor app review. (head explodes)
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post #218 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 10:46 AM
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Help! Do not see the file

I downloaded the app, did the calibration, and sent a file to Marantz 6011, but I do not see the file under Audyssey. Thanks for any help.
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post #219 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 12:13 PM
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Anyone else have trouble connecting to their AVR sometimes from the app? I'll get stuck at the "looking for AVR" stage a lot, and after many attempts, it'll finally "see" it.
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post #220 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 01:49 PM
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Since installing the app and trying to run the calibration and having issues, I tried to run the calibration straight from my Denon AVR-X6300H and discovered that isn't even working for some reason. When I get to the subwoofer volume levels, it says that the volume is to low (just like the app said). Turning the volume up on the subs does absolutely nothing. When moving on to the left speaker, Audyssey immediately stops and says no speakers are connected.

I have run the calibration several times and never experienced this before. Is it a mic problem or is it a problem with the receiver?? When the sub level calibration was going on I got right up to the mic and hummed or talked into it and the db level did rise so this is really throwing me for a loop! I triple checked that the mic was plugged in all the way and still no go.

Any ideas what could be going on??? Thanks for any help you can provide

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post #221 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 03:27 PM
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Any ideas what could be going on??? Thanks for any help you can provide
No; do a factory reset and start over.
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post #222 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 04:34 PM
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Just used the app

I just used the MultEQ Editor app with my Denon X1300W. This is a great addition to Audyssey. I set the filter frequency range to only apply correction below 300hz. Love having the ability to do this. And looking at the before and after graphs, I could see that MultEQ did a nice job of helping flatten out the response from my dual subs. Really happy with the app.
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post #223 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dftkell View Post
I just used the MultEQ Editor app with my Denon X1300W. This is a great addition to Audyssey. I set the filter frequency range to only apply correction below 300hz. Love having the ability to do this. And looking at the before and after graphs, I could see that MultEQ did a nice job of helping flatten out the response from my dual subs. Really happy with the app.
This app is the best 20 bucks I spent on my system. I did like you, but set the cutoff to 500 Hz. Music has never sound better
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post #224 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Conventional setup is done. Tomorrow... the app.
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post #225 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
What it comes down to is... If I'm going to make such a major change in the system I use for room EQ, I definitely want to have a good idea of what it's doing and how effective it is versus Dirac.
Mark, if you're willing, run IR and/or phase plots for pre-EQ, Dirac post EQ and Audyssey post EQ. Should make for an interesting comparison.
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post #226 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Mark, if you're willing, run IR and/or phase plots for pre-EQ, Dirac post EQ and Audyssey post EQ. Should make for an interesting comparison.
I'd like to take this moment to restate the immense skepticism I have for the world of so-called "high-end" two-channel audio and its power cords that cost as much as cars, its disdain for awesome things like DSP, and its illogical lust for speakers that cost as much as houses. Those folks are out of their minds and should all post recent audiology exams ASAP.

Gimme a great AVR with room correction, some decent speakers, and a couple of good subs. And fuhgeddaboudit.

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Last edited by imagic; 04-09-2017 at 09:16 PM.
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post #227 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 08:11 PM
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Absolute noob here, I think my system sounds decent but I want to make sure I make my speakers sounds their best.
Whit that said, I have four KEF Q900 and one Q600c driven by a Marantz SR5011, sadly no subs yet.
I have no idea what to look for in the app, any advise? Thank you



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post #228 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'd like to take this moment to restate the immense skepticism I have for the world of so-called "high-end" two-channel audio and its power cords that cost as much as cars, disdain for awesome things like DSP, and speakers that cost as much as houses. Those folks are out of their minds and should all post recent audiology exams ASAP.

Gimme a great AVR, some decent speakers, and a couple of good subs and fuhgeddaboudit.
You're equating mixed phase correction with audiophoolery? M'kay.
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post #229 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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You're equating mixed phase correction with audiophoolery? M'kay.
Equate? Never. Refer to the two in the same paragraph? Sure. The other post is now edited for clarity.

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post #230 of 754 Old 04-09-2017, 09:24 PM
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You're equating mixed phase correction with audiophoolery? M'kay.
When I switched from Audyssey (XT32 with the Pro kit) to Dirac Live (MiniDSP 88A), I spend a considerable amount of time comparing calibration results using the two systems. I still have the REW measurement files. In general, the frequency response curves were actually quite similar, close enough that based on frequency response alone, I probably heard little difference. However, looking at the ETC graphs, Dirac did a noticeably better job reducing reflections in my already highly treated room. I believe this is why @RUR is interested in seeing the ETC measurements.

A couple of measurements are shown below. In both examples, Audyssey is the red measurement, Dirac the blue one.

While I am sure Mark will be conducting a much more rigorous comparison, it will be interesting to see if there are similarities in our conclusions.
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post #231 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 10:06 AM
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...However, looking at the ETC graphs, Dirac did a noticeably better job reducing reflections in my already highly treated room. I believe this is why @RUR is interested in seeing the ETC measurements..
Hi Jerry,

I'm particularly interested in seeing some indication that current Audyssey is or is not a mixed phase solution. If it is, how effective is it? IME, this is most easily seen in pre/post phase plots.

In my system, I can choose between FR correction or Phase correction, or both. I can instantly toggle between these three options to hear differences, if any. In my acoustically asymmetric room, both uncorrected FR and phase are markedly different L to R, and it's easy to hear the difference between phase vs. no-phase correction, particularly in stereo imaging. Yours and others' MMV, of course.
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post #232 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
When I switched from Audyssey (XT32 with the Pro kit) to Dirac Live (MiniDSP 88A), I spend a considerable amount of time comparing calibration results using the two systems. I still have the REW measurement files. In general, the frequency response curves were actually quite similar, close enough that based on frequency response alone, I probably heard little difference. However, looking at the ETC graphs, Dirac did a noticeably better job reducing reflections in my already highly treated room. I believe this is why @RUR is interested in seeing the ETC measurements.

A couple of measurements are shown below. In both examples, Audyssey is the red measurement, Dirac the blue one.

While I am sure Mark will be conducting a much more rigorous comparison, it will be interesting to see if there are similarities in our conclusions.
Should be a good time. I got the new system up and running with a "classic" Audyssey calibration that turned out well to my ears. Using the app today.

On a related note, since my DDRC-88A is now unleashed, I'm planning to have lots of two-channel fun with it.
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post #233 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 11:13 AM
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I agree. I'll do that as well. In addition to running BP-9060s in stereo, I'll toss in a bunch of speakers that I have lined up to review: Power Sound Audio MT110s, B&W CM6 S2, MarkAudio SOTA Viotti One. And for fun I can toss the Monoprice 15" PA speakers into the mix, plus my personal favorite mid-range residential 2-way towers speakers, the GoldenEar Triton Fives.

Lots of work, but also lots of fun so I hope you all come along for that ride. Getting started right after lunch today.
I just stumbled upon goldenear myself recently. I bought 2 triton 7's and a supercenter xl and man oh man are they wonderful. Never fell in love with speakers so fast in my life, and I've demoed a ton. Sandy seems to hate audyssey though and recommends not using it with his speakers, any idea why? (I have xt32 and I am using it with good results currently, haven't messed with the app just yet on my Denon x3300)
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post #234 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 12:14 PM
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Thanx

I understand all settings to be made to my two subs prior to running Audyssey and basically what Audyssey does relative to sub eq and room corrections. Just know zilch about curves, rolloff, etc. and tweaks to be made and why. Thats what I'm looking for.
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Is of no use for the app, how to use the app and what all changes do if you make them.
(but still nice to read )

This app is a whole new thing compared to the "old" Audyssey way of using it.
Its a step into a world where the user can change stuff what was not, and is not possible with the standard XT32.
Audyssey (or D&M) should provide a manual, this is giving someone a car who has never driven and say, well good luck with it.............
Quite true, but if you had a fully autonomous car that one day you decided you wanted to drive manually, don't you think you'd read more than one guide on how to operate the car on your own?

With that said, if Mark @imagic has his hands full and people want, I can do a little walkthrough for the app and what all that means. You can certainly do more harm than good, but that's where reading some good literature from Floyd Toole or the like would really take your knowledge to the next level. If you are not familiar with a 2nd order Linkwitz, shelf filter, or the fletcher munson curves are (Just for example), you could still get yourself in trouble with making adjustments in the app that you don't exactly understand what they mean. This will mainly come into play when trying to create custom curves as opposed to the dead flat target audyssey curve, with selectable rolloff up top.



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Originally Posted by jsc1205 View Post
Since installing the app and trying to run the calibration and having issues, I tried to run the calibration straight from my Denon AVR-X6300H and discovered that isn't even working for some reason. When I get to the subwoofer volume levels, it says that the volume is to low (just like the app said). Turning the volume up on the subs does absolutely nothing. When moving on to the left speaker, Audyssey immediately stops and says no speakers are connected.

I have run the calibration several times and never experienced this before. Is it a mic problem or is it a problem with the receiver?? When the sub level calibration was going on I got right up to the mic and hummed or talked into it and the db level did rise so this is really throwing me for a loop! I triple checked that the mic was plugged in all the way and still no go.

Any ideas what could be going on??? Thanks for any help you can provide
Sounds to me like a busted mic, but a reset may fix the problems for you.
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post #235 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quite true, but if you had a fully autonomous car that one day you decided you wanted to drive manually, don't you think you'd read more than one guide on how to operate the car on your own?

With that said, if Mark @imagic has his hands full and people want, I can do a little walkthrough for the app and what all that means. You can certainly do more harm than good, but that's where reading some good literature from Floyd Toole or the like would really take your knowledge to the next level. If you are not familiar with a 2nd order Linkwitz, shelf filter, or the fletcher munson curves are (Just for example), you could still get yourself in trouble with making adjustments in the app that you don't exactly understand what they mean. This will mainly come into play when trying to create custom curves as opposed to the dead flat target audyssey curve, with selectable rolloff up top.
Yeah I'd say go for it, the more info that's out there the better.
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post #236 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 04:56 PM
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Anyone else have trouble connecting to their AVR sometimes from the app? I'll get stuck at the "looking for AVR" stage a lot, and after many attempts, it'll finally "see" it.
No issues for me on iOS. In general the only issues I've seen, after some extensive use, are:

* 2 crashes - never during calibration
* one time when the upload to the AVR never completed (or maybe the app didn't get the confirmation); so I killed the app and uploaded again

In general I'm finding the app is really great. Never having used the prior Pro kit, but having investigated it a bit, this is really a great value for $20. My main wish list item would be to set the crossovers from the app. This would mean I wouldn't have to reset them each time I edit the curves, play with midrange correction, etc. But maybe this is an artifact of the way Audyssey has always let the AVR set the crossovers...
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post #237 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 07:15 PM
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No issues for me on iOS. In general the only issues I've seen, after some extensive use, are:

* 2 crashes - never during calibration
* one time when the upload to the AVR never completed (or maybe the app didn't get the confirmation); so I killed the app and uploaded again

In general I'm finding the app is really great. Never having used the prior Pro kit, but having investigated it a bit, this is really a great value for $20. My main wish list item would be to set the crossovers from the app. This would mean I wouldn't have to reset them each time I edit the curves, play with midrange correction, etc. But maybe this is an artifact of the way Audyssey has always let the AVR set the crossovers...
I think some of my issue may be due to the fact I'm using a wifi extender. Anyway, things seem to be working for now, so I'm happy.
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post #238 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 07:24 PM
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If you've tried turning off the BBC dip, what do you guys think of the resulting sound? I tried it off, but ended up re-enabling it.
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post #239 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 10:00 PM
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If you've tried turning off the BBC dip, what do you guys think of the resulting sound? I tried it off, but ended up re-enabling it.
I noticed some harshness without it, though I didn't do controlled testing. I had also limited the correction on my L/R channels to >= 2k or something like that. So possibly that was the change I was noticing. For the moment I have the midrange compensation enabled only for my center channel, full-range correction turned on globally, am using Audyssey flat, and bumped the bass region a bit for L/R and the subs. I'm very happy with the sound, though I need to make some time to do some more critical listening.
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post #240 of 754 Old 04-10-2017, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtb16 View Post
I downloaded the app, did the calibration, and sent a file to Marantz 6011, but I do not see the file under Audyssey. Thanks for any help.
If you sent the calibration to the AVR then it is now active for the Audyssey reference and flat correction curves. At least on my Denon this also resets the crossovers so you may want to raise those by hand– for instance, a min of 80 Hz is frequently recommended if you have good sub(s).
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Audyssey , Denon , Marantz , multeq editor app



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