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post #1 of 46 Old 05-15-2017, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon avr x4200

So as many know I use to be a big denon fanboy! I'll admit it and I'm ok with that.

I upgraded every year or two to the very best denon avr. I had the 5308 than to 4311 than to 4520. Every year they got worse and worse. Was so disappointed and I gave up on them. 5308 was amazing in every way! Also had 4308 and 3808 in different rooms. Was also very good.

In my house I have 7 different setups. In my main theater room I have a 11 channel definitive setup now. Avr is a Yamaha 3060 with to adcom power amps. A 7805 and 7605. I'm using the Yamaha to power 2 channels.

Over that past few years every year I buy a bunch of the higher end receivers to try. In 2014 it was denon 7200. Yamaha 3040. Pioneer sc89. Onkyo 3030. Denon5200. I kept the Yamaha 3040. Was best overall sounding avr. Denon 7200 was just so overpriced and sounded worse than 4520!

2015 I bought Yamaha 3050. Denon 6200. Onkyo rz900. Pioneer sc99. Marantz 7010. This was a tougher year to choose from but I kept the onkyo rz900. Onkyo and Yamaha 3050 were close. Again denon and marantz were the worst in the bunch. The rz900 is a power house with crystal clear dynamics. A great avr!

2016 I did same thing but only Pioneer 901. Yamaha 3060. This time I gave up on denon and marantz. I still have rz900 so the new onkyo/integra I didn't need or want really. I kept 3060. Pioneer just doesn't do it fo me anymore. I loved the 2010-2013 pioneer avrs too.

So I've been talking a lot of trash about denon and marantz the last several months. Definitely has upset the people that love them. So I figured if I found a good deal on a better denon I'd buy it and try again. So I found a used 4200 for $400. Couldn't pass that up! I've been playing with it for the week and these are my thoughts.

1. Style isn't very good and thank goodness denon is going back to silver logos. Gold isn't very attractive.
2. Sound quality is actually better than 7200 or 6200. Has a crisp sound and very detailed. Something I haven't heard from denon in many years.
3. Remote is actually nice and works well and much better than new cheap pioneer and onkyo remotes.
4. Osd is fine and does everything you need.
5. Puts off a lot of heat and I'm using my power amps with it.
6. My amps clip from low voltage pre amp section in 4200. Which is very loud though.
7. Internal amps are very weak for a receiver of this price.
8. Audyssey sounds flat and lifeless but every receiver I have needs true custom eq. Audyssey is ok for some but can never achieve the dynamics and exciting sound I'm looking for.
9. If you use audyssey and internal amps it definitely sounds like a regular receiver.
10. If you setup right with power amps it sounds very very good!

I might think of a few things to add later but overall I'm actually happy with this denon. It actually makes me happy that Denon isn't that bad! Maybe their next flagship will be something amazing. This denon 4200 will be going into my sons room to replace his pioneer sc57.

Actually I bought a integra r1 that will be coming in this week and Yamaha 3060 will be going back. I have 2 Yamaha 3060. One I just got in last 30 days for my master bedroom setup. If the r1 is better it'll go in main room.

So see guys I don't hate every denon.
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post #2 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 06:53 AM
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4200X as a pseudo 11.x AVR?

I have a question specific to the 4200X, and your experience with 9.x and 11.x setups can hopefully offer a definitive answer.

The 4200X is marketed as a 9.2 AVR.

My question is, if one is using a separate 7-channel power amp (for the fronts, sides, and rears, plus center), and only using two of the output channels on the 4200X to drive front Atmos speakers:

What would happen if two additional side Atmos speakers are connected, driven by two more of the available amp channels on the 4200X?

Are the channel assignments limited to a fixed choice of 9 speakers, OR does the AVR dynamically choose amongst the available 11 speakers as to which 9 a signal is sent to, based on the input information , OR does the AVR really have 11 channels of pre-amp processing, and all 11 speakers will be driven, based on the input signal?

Thanks for any insight you can provide.
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post #3 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
So as many know I use to be a big denon fanboy! I'll admit it and I'm ok with that.

I upgraded every year or two to the very best denon avr. I had the 5308 than to 4311 than to 4520. Every year they got worse and worse. Was so disappointed and I gave up on them. 5308 was amazing in every way! Also had 4308 and 3808 in different rooms. Was also very good.

In my house I have 7 different setups. In my main theater room I have a 11 channel definitive setup now. Avr is a Yamaha 3060 with to adcom power amps. A 7805 and 7605. I'm using the Yamaha to power 2 channels.

Over that past few years every year I buy a bunch of the higher end receivers to try. In 2014 it was denon 7200. Yamaha 3040. Pioneer sc89. Onkyo 3030. Denon5200. I kept the Yamaha 3040. Was best overall sounding avr. Denon 7200 was just so overpriced and sounded worse than 4520!

2015 I bought Yamaha 3050. Denon 6200. Onkyo rz900. Pioneer sc99. Marantz 7010. This was a tougher year to choose from but I kept the onkyo rz900. Onkyo and Yamaha 3050 were close. Again denon and marantz were the worst in the bunch. The rz900 is a power house with crystal clear dynamics. A great avr!

2016 I did same thing but only Pioneer 901. Yamaha 3060. This time I gave up on denon and marantz. I still have rz900 so the new onkyo/integra I didn't need or want really. I kept 3060. Pioneer just doesn't do it fo me anymore. I loved the 2010-2013 pioneer avrs too.

So I've been talking a lot of trash about denon and marantz the last several months. Definitely has upset the people that love them. So I figured if I found a good deal on a better denon I'd buy it and try again. So I found a used 4200 for $400. Couldn't pass that up! I've been playing with it for the week and these are my thoughts.

1. Style isn't very good and thank goodness denon is going back to silver logos. Gold isn't very attractive.
2. Sound quality is actually better than 7200 or 6200. Has a crisp sound and very detailed. Something I haven't heard from denon in many years.
3. Remote is actually nice and works well and much better than new cheap pioneer and onkyo remotes.
4. Osd is fine and does everything you need.
5. Puts off a lot of heat and I'm using my power amps with it.
6. My amps clip from low voltage pre amp section in 4200. Which is very loud though.
7. Internal amps are very weak for a receiver of this price.
8. Audyssey sounds flat and lifeless but every receiver I have needs true custom eq. Audyssey is ok for some but can never achieve the dynamics and exciting sound I'm looking for.
9. If you use audyssey and internal amps it definitely sounds like a regular receiver.
10. If you setup right with power amps it sounds very very good!

I might think of a few things to add later but overall I'm actually happy with this denon. It actually makes me happy that Denon isn't that bad! Maybe their next flagship will be something amazing. This denon 4200 will be going into my sons room to replace his pioneer sc57.

Actually I bought a integra r1 that will be coming in this week and Yamaha 3060 will be going back. I have 2 Yamaha 3060. One I just got in last 30 days for my master bedroom setup. If the r1 is better it'll go in main room.

So see guys I don't hate every denon.
have you seen the denon avr-x6300h in-command? Do you think it will be better than the yamaha 3060? i'm looking for a reciever for a 7.1.4 atmos setup and i've been told by many that audessy is actually very good and even abit better than the yamaha ypao room correction?
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post #4 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Denon 4200 is limited to 9ch. Doesn't matter if you have extra power amps.

Also the denon 6300 might be better than 6200 but I'd still believe Yamaha 3060 to be much better. Ypao with its custom peq is far superior to audyssey
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post #5 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Denon 4200 is limited to 9ch. Doesn't matter if you have extra power amps.

Also the denon 6300 might be better than 6200 but I'd still believe Yamaha 3060 to be much better. Ypao with its custom peq is far superior to audyssey
Not anymore. YPAO mic is still limited to only 31Hz while Audyssey mic can go down to 10Hz and with the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android), you can now edit the Audyssey speaker/sub EQ curves after running Audyssey to include limiting the EQ range as well.
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post #6 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 07:54 AM
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Not anymore. YPAO mic is still limited to only 31Hz while Audyssey mic can go down to 10Hz and with the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android), you can now edit the Audyssey speaker/sub EQ curves after running Audyssey to include limiting the EQ range as well.
So does this mean that the denon x6300h will be better for me since my primary interest is for dolby atmos and surround sound which requires good room correction
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post #7 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 08:10 AM
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So does this mean that the denon x6300h will be better for me since my primary interest is for dolby atmos and surround sound which requires good room correction
Subjective call as you have Audyssey fan boys and YPAO fan boys, each has its own merits; however, if you want an all-in-one-box 11CH solution, that would be the X6300H.
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post #8 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 08:15 AM
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Subjective call as you have Audyssey fan boys and YPAO fan boys, each has its own merits; however, if you want an all-in-one-box 11CH solution, that would be the X6300H.
Awesome thanks, i was pretty much set on this till i read a reviewer say that the audessy on the denon is a downside especially for atmos! And that surprised me. But since i can't get the anthem mrx 1120 which has ARC, i'm looking for the next best thing. Im looking to pair a reciever with the klipsch reference premiere dolby atmos series which are very powerful speakers and good for atmos
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post #9 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Denon 4200 is limited to 9ch. Doesn't matter if you have extra power amps.

Also the denon 6300 might be better than 6200 but I'd still believe Yamaha 3060 to be much better. Ypao with its custom peq is far superior to audyssey
Not anymore. YPAO mic is still limited to only 31Hz while Audyssey mic can go down to 10Hz and with the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor app (iOS/Android), you can now edit the Audyssey speaker/sub EQ curves after running Audyssey to include limiting the EQ range as well.
I understand that and you bring that up often. I'm talking about using custom eq options.

Use rew , Dirac live and other things to measure desired response.

If you don't want to do all that extra work audyssey get you about %90 the way there.

In many way peq is much more advanced than xt32 for custom tuning
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post #10 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I will say this thought if there is someone that wants my denon 4200 I would trade it in a heartbeat for a newer avr with similar options from Yamaha, pioneer, onkyo, integra.

I might even pay extra and pay shipping for right avr.
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post #11 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 02:46 PM
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I will say this thought if there is someone that wants my denon 4200 I would trade it in a heartbeat for a newer avr with similar options from Yamaha, pioneer, onkyo, integra.
You just said you're sending a Yamaha RX-A3060 back. Why not keep it then?

I get the impression you have AVR-A.D.D. and constantly want new toys.
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post #12 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I will say this thought if there is someone that wants my denon 4200 I would trade it in a heartbeat for a newer avr with similar options from Yamaha, pioneer, onkyo, integra.
You just said you're sending a Yamaha RX-A3060 back. Why not keep it then?

I get the impression you have AVR-A.D.D. and constantly want new toys.
I have a Yamaha 3060 in my master bedroom as well as one in theater room. So I returned one of them and bought a integra r1. If integra isn't as good I'll put it in bedroom.

Every year I get a new avr and rotate the older ones into spare rooms. Yeah I've bet know to move stuff around a lot. Lol

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post #13 of 46 Old 05-16-2017, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I am surprised that all the people that hated that I criticized denon didn't chirp in.

Oh well. Lol
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post #14 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 01:31 AM
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I am surprised that all the people that hated that I criticized denon didn't chirp in.

Oh well. Lol
Haha i'm just new at this and since i've seen many people praise the denon avr-x6300h i'll just go with it i think. Since it has 11 channels and that's what i need. The yamaha only has 9 channel and has only 10 watts more per channel
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I am surprised that all the people that hated that I criticized denon didn't chirp in.

Oh well. Lol
So was that the purpose of your thread, to see if you can get a rise in people and start a post bashing back and forth? To each his own, I personally like my 6200 but I'm not a Denon die hard and will choose whatever brand has the features and price I'm looking for next time around...except maybe Onkyo until they get their act together.
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post #16 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually the opposite. I wanted to show those people that I don't hate denon and give them validation
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post #17 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 07:55 AM
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Actually the opposite. I wanted to show those people that I don't hate denon and give them validation
why do you hate audessy though? i have heard from most people that audessy is the best even for atmos?
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post #18 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Takes all the excitement out. Sounds ok in some rooms. Just not for me especially when I play it loud.

Audyssey flattens everything out to much. Never turn dynamic eq or dynamic volume on. They really ruin the sound by boosting surrounds 6 db and sub. Than cutting subs output at higher volumes.
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post #19 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 08:25 AM
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My X4200 is great and plenty exciting. I have an external amp for 9.2. Can't imagine having "more" sound in my front room/home theater.

Boom booms go boom boom. Tweet tweets go tweet tweet. Stuff that flies over head, flies over head. IPAD app works great. When it was on sale for the low price many of us got, its a no brainer value.

Same for the X4300 as its price is coming down aggressively as the x4400's are coming.

X4300's don't need external amp.

My opinion is these X4... units are perfect for a large number of home theater users.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."

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post #20 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 08:57 AM
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Takes all the excitement out. Sounds ok in some rooms. Just not for me especially when I play it loud.

Audyssey flattens everything out to much. Never turn dynamic eq or dynamic volume on. They really ruin the sound by boosting surrounds 6 db and sub. Than cutting subs output at higher volumes.
So you feel that for atmos the yamaha aventage rx-a3060 reciever with a 2 channel external amp like the russound D250LS will be better? Really looking for an honest opinion on this
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post #21 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Takes all the excitement out. Sounds ok in some rooms. Just not for me especially when I play it loud.

Audyssey flattens everything out to much. Never turn dynamic eq or dynamic volume on. They really ruin the sound by boosting surrounds 6 db and sub. Than cutting subs output at higher volumes.
So you feel that for atmos the yamaha aventage rx-a3060 reciever with a 2 channel external amp like the russound D250LS will be better? Really looking for an honest opinion on this
Yes without a doubt Yamaha 3060 is much more powerful and has a cleaner more precise sound. Also you can run 7.2.4 with Yamaha. Also the way you can customize peq in ypao is way better than audyssey and denon.

If you can swing the Yamaha 3070 it looks like a nice upgrade. Better dacs and xlr for front channels.

The denon receivers aren't bad but the Yamaha is entirely different level.

If all you've ever had is a avr like a denon you'll be very surprised with the Yamaha. Especially if you listen loud.

Also I'd look for a better external amp. So many great deals out there on used gear. Something like a rotel 1075 can be found for $500 or less. Something like that would help you achieve over 100 watts to all 11 ch driven at same time.
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post #22 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Takes all the excitement out. Sounds ok in some rooms. Just not for me especially when I play it loud.

Audyssey flattens everything out to much. Never turn dynamic eq or dynamic volume on. They really ruin the sound by boosting surrounds 6 db and sub. Than cutting subs output at higher volumes.


Really Timothy1180? I have a X4200 with an external amp and do not experience "cutting subs output at higher volumes"? Maybe it is just speaker/subs that I have with room configuration? I am running 5.3.4 for ATMOS and PSA speakers and subs, with four satellite speakers......maybe my subs and speakers are just good enough then.
I am upgrading from a Marantz SR7008 that has been pretty darn flawless, except for 4K. To each his own.
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post #23 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I was talking about dynamic eq and dynamic volume. When you have them on it boosts everything at lower volume and cuts at higher volume.

Best thing you can do with a audyssey receiver is turn those off.
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post #24 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:30 AM
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So you feel that for atmos the yamaha aventage rx-a3060 reciever with a 2 channel external amp like the russound D250LS will be better? Really looking for an honest opinion on this
For every Yamaha plus opinion you'll find an equal number of Denon plus opinions. Select the model that best meets your feature/input/output requirements.
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post #25 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:44 AM
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Yes without a doubt Yamaha 3060 is much more powerful and has a cleaner more precise sound. Also you can run 7.2.4 with Yamaha. Also the way you can customize peq in ypao is way better than audyssey and denon.

If you can swing the Yamaha 3070 it looks like a nice upgrade. Better dacs and xlr for front channels.

The denon receivers aren't bad but the Yamaha is entirely different level.

If all you've ever had is a avr like a denon you'll be very surprised with the Yamaha. Especially if you listen loud.
For music perhaps you're right but when I "auditioned" the 3040 prior to buying my 6200 it was lacking punch for movies and since my usage is 99% home theater then the Denon was the better fit. If you're truly going to compare against the 3060 then you should be comparing against the 6300H which is the same model year and level of receiver. The 6300H can do 7.2.4 without needing an external amp for 2 channels unlike the 3060. You'll never need 100 watts to all channels driven at the same time. There's a thread floating around here somewhere that goes into great detail of the why's. I think anyone who's looking to buy should audition both and decide for themselves.
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post #26 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:52 AM
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Yes without a doubt Yamaha 3060 is much more powerful and has a cleaner more precise sound. Also you can run 7.2.4 with Yamaha. Also the way you can customize peq in ypao is way better than audyssey and denon.

If you can swing the Yamaha 3070 it looks like a nice upgrade. Better dacs and xlr for front channels.

The denon receivers aren't bad but the Yamaha is entirely different level.

If all you've ever had is a avr like a denon you'll be very surprised with the Yamaha. Especially if you listen loud.

Also I'd look for a better external amp. So many great deals out there on used gear. Something like a rotel 1075 can be found for $500 or less. Something like that would help you achieve over 100 watts to all 11 ch driven at same time.
Thanks. Actually even with the Denon avr-X6300H IN-Command i can run a full 7.2.4 setup without the need of an external amplifier. And i'm not looking for something too complex, even with the room correction system i just wana let the system do it's thing i won't customize much. So will the yamaha still be better? And the reason i wana go with that amp is because it will only power the two extra atmos modules and so won't need too much power.
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post #27 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
For every Yamaha plus opinion you'll find an equal number of Denon plus opinions. Select the model that best meets your feature/input/output requirements.
I know you said it's subjective on which room correction is better, but in your opinion, mainly for home theater and surround sound and especially for dolby atmos and dts:x, which would be better for me, the denon avr-x6300h in-command or the yamaha? Which room correction will be better for me the denon's audessy or the yamaha's ypao? Since i had heard great things abt audessy until i read some review saying audessy is a down side especially for atmos? And timothy seems to think so to. Would appreciate your opinion. I will be running them with the klipsch reference premiere dolby atmos series.
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post #28 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey is a good tool and was really designed to help every user have a easy eq. Was a big deal over 10 years ago. Yamaha takes it to a different level with the way you can customize your eq.

Best thing onkyo/integra ever did is drop audyssey. Every onkyo avr I've had with accu eq sounds better than years past. I know people don't like to hear that but even the reviews back that up. Sound and vision tested onkyo 828 and 838. They didn't understand how the ran eq setup and 838 just sounded better. They even mentioned that they miss audyssey as a feature but not the result.

As far as adding power amps. Of course it makes a difference if you have higher ends speakers or like it loud. Yes 100 watts will be used easy than. At full reference volume I'm using all the power of my adcom 7805 and 7605. I have 300 watts going to center. Fronts. Surrounds. 125 watts going to 4 atmos speakers. 170 watts from receiver going to surround backs.

If you are always at low volume below 95db you won't need power amps.

I'm sure denon 6300 isn't a bad avr just not on same level as Yamaha 3060. I bet 6300 sounds very similar to 4200 or 4300.
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post #29 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Audyssey is a good tool and was really designed to help every user have a easy eq. Was a big deal over 10 years ago. Yamaha takes it to a different level with the way you can customize your eq.

Best thing onkyo/integra ever did is drop audyssey. Every onkyo avr I've had with accu eq sounds better than years past. I know people don't like to hear that but even the reviews back that up. Sound and vision tested onkyo 828 and 838. They didn't understand how the ran eq setup and 838 just sounded better. They even mentioned that they miss audyssey as a feature but not the result.

As far as adding power amps. Of course it makes a difference if you have higher ends speakers or like it loud. Yes 100 watts will be used easy than. At full reference volume I'm using all the power of my adcom 7805 and 7605. I have 300 watts going to center. Fronts. Surrounds. 125 watts going to 4 atmos speakers. 170 watts from receiver going to surround backs.

If you are always at low volume below 95db you won't need power amps.

I'm sure denon 6300 isn't a bad avr just not on same level as Yamaha 3060. I bet 6300 sounds very similar to 4200 or 4300.
But since im not going to customise much will i really still benefit from the yamaha in terms of room correction? Since you said it's advantage is the way you can customise. But in my case i'll just let any room correction system do it's own thing so i won't really benefit from the customisation.
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post #30 of 46 Old 05-17-2017, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahil0909 View Post
I know you said it's subjective on which room correction is better, but in your opinion, mainly for home theater and surround sound and especially for dolby atmos and dts:x, which would be better for me, the denon avr-x6300h in-command or the yamaha? Which room correction will be better for me the denon's audessy or the yamaha's ypao? Since i had heard great things abt audessy until i read some review saying audessy is a down side especially for atmos? And timothy seems to think so to. Would appreciate your opinion. I will be running them with the klipsch reference premiere dolby atmos series.
No one can tell you which will be better as only you can decide based on your ears, your speakers, and your room's dynamics.
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