Pseudo-Official 3805 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by PontifexMaximus
[b]I guess I beg to differ...It's a bit ironic you chose the Denon for it's supposed build quality when the Denon models seem to have more build quality issues than the Yamahas have had. I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?
Quality of the amps? I haven't seen anything to suggest Denon's amps are better than the Yamahas amps. Please relay some facts/figures because I think the amps in any A/V receiver tend to be overrated. The only thing I've found to be of value is a THX certification, because then I know the amps had to pass a high standard of quality and high output to get the THX stamp of approval on it.
Preamp? The Denon may have Burr-Brown DACs, but it takes more than a set of Burr-Brown DACs to make good sound. All I know is that the DACs in the Yamaha were highly commended in the Audioholics review.

Also, the Denon doesn't have all the really cool DSP settings the Yamahas have with CinemaDSP. I find myself using the "Adventure" and "Spectacle" settings more and more all the time.
Video switching bandwidth? Denon's got the Yamaha there. Denon states 100Mhz; Yamaha states 60Mhz. My understanding is that you only need 40Mhz for HD signals; and I've also come across a rumor that the Denon rating of 100Mhz is overinflated. To be determined I guess...
Remote? Well, as long as you don't get a defective one I guess.
Component inputs? Definite advantage to the Denon...if you need 3 inputs instead of 2.
Personally, I think all the receivers of this quality should have started incorporating HDMI.
But there are so many other features to compare and take into consideration as well such as THX processing/certification, inclusion of microphone, 10-band vs. 8-band parametric equalizer, audio delay for adjusting lip synch (Denon may have this I'm not sure), etc, and in the end it does comes down to your personal tastes and which you find sounds better in your room, with your speakers. I know that's such a cliched disclaimer around here, but it's true. I just would be careful about labelling this specific Denon component a better built component than the Yamaha RX-V2400/1400 as that is truly a mixed bag. Build quality of both brands have their pluses and minuses. I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.

Hey man, you can differ all you want! That's cool! If we all thought alike, it would be a dull world, wouldn't it? Please allow me to pontificate a bitScratch that, that's your department. I'll just share with you more of my thought process when I made that earlier post.

Here's what I said:
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.


It is many individual's and reviewer's opinions that Denon amps in general, sound better than Yamaha's. That's my opinion too, and I'm entitled to it, just as you are to yours.
  • Denon, again is acknowledged by many to employ some of the finest Preamp topology and quality DSP & DAC's in the industry.
  • Analog Devices HammerHead SHARC 32 bit floating point DSP processors
  • 16 (count em) Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration
  • 24 bit, 192 kHz Digital Interface Receiver, 24 bit, 192 kHz A/D conversion (Burr-Brown PCM-1804) on all Stereo analog inputs.
To make a long story short, I spent time pouring over the specs of these two receivers, and you can too, if you're interested in why I decided as I did. FWIW, the video bandwidth is specified to 100MHz -3db. That's not fluff, it's qualified. Does today's HDTV need that bandwidth? No. Do I want as much future prooffness as possible? Of course I do. If you'll read what I posted earlier, you'll see that I said the 2400 is a fine piece. I mean that, but for me, my $$ went to the 3805. My bux, my choice. You're entitled to yours.

Regarding the remote I'll bet you that the remotes for both receivers are subbed out to ODM's. No big deal.

Which receiver is better? I agree with you, it's a mixed bag. That's what I said in the first place. My feet voted differently than yours. No big deal. That way competition stays healthy.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #92 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 08:18 PM
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Good come back Pontifexmaximus.

Nowhere, to date have I seen any technical reviews comparing the Denon 3805 to the Yamaha 2400 in any way, much less, that one was better than the other in any respect. I can give you three good reason why I choose the 2400 over the 3805: (1) Price (2) Yamaha's known for there build quality I.E. the review at Audioholic's shows the 2400 with the cover off and thier is a thread here on AVS Forum that shows the cover off a 3805 from Europe, the 3805 circuit board is chipped on the edge and the transformer has scratches all over it, (3) The most important "THE SOUND " remember this is only " MY " opinion Bob
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post #93 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 08:25 PM
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Hey!
Who hijacked this thread? When did it turn into a 3805 bashing thread?
Get a life people!

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #94 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 08:34 PM
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Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I was not my intention to, as you put it, to bash the 3805. Like you said earlier, the 2400 and the 3805 are both very good receivers.

Bob
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post #95 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kwkarth
Who hijacked this thread? When did it turn into a 3805 bashing thread?
Get a life people!

No worse than you, when you decided to start bashing a Sunfire product in the other thread!
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post #96 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by NXPlasmid
So I got the mic and did the auto-calibration and I think it really smoothed out the soundstage significantly, however, I didn't do any back-to-back listening. I have things set up with lfe+mains low end and after the calibration things had quite a bit of bottom end. in the next couple days or so I may try resetting everything, listening and doing the auto-cal to get a better idea of what it is doing. all in all though, seemed to do a good job. Also, the mic is quite pleasingly hefty and solid so I feel a teensy bit less annoyed it costs $65...

a question for the denon owners.... doesn't the receiver and/or the remote allow you to bypass all the eq with a "direct" button?

it is a great feature on my pioneer 55txi.... i can go back and forth from the equalized signal to a direct bypass of the eq on my remote..... it was the first thing i tried after running the eq program to see what had changed or not changed....

just wondering.....
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post #97 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Johnla
No worse than you, when you decided to start bashing a Sunfire product in the other thread!

So Johnla,
I apologized to you personally in the other thread where the offense occurred (which was not a Sunfire thread). Apparently that's not good enough for you. What is? Do you need to tear up this thread now in order to feel better? I am sorry.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #98 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:34 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tubeguy44
a question for the denon owners.... doesn't the receiver and/or the remote allow you to bypass all the eq with a "direct" button?

it is a great feature on my pioneer 55txi.... i can go back and forth from the equalized signal to a direct bypass of the eq on my remote..... it was the first thing i tried after running the eq program to see what had changed or not changed....

just wondering.....

Yes, in fact you can cycle between several EQ settings, one after the other with the 3805 in order to directly compare the sound quality.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #99 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bobdons1
Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I was not my intention to, as you put it, to bash the 3805. Like you said earlier, the 2400 and the 3805 are both very good receivers.

Bob

Not a problem Bob. No offense taken. I just feel we should try to stay somewhat on topic of the thread.
Cheers,

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #100 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 10:52 PM
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So I saw the 3805 at my local dealer today listed at $1050. A nice price considering they usually start at msrp and you have to talk them down.

Nothing earth shattering here, but I thought the remote was sort of gimicky. I suppose with use I could get used to it as with any remote. The buttons at the bottom I found particularly hard to use while holding the remote in one hand. It also felt like if you dropped it, you'd be sorry. Regardless, I'll use my mx-500 and probably pick up a $3805 after I find out how much I owe in taxes. The 3 component ins is the dealbreaker feature for me.

Ron
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post #101 of 2681 Old 03-31-2004, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by turt
but I thought the remote was sort of gimicky. I suppose with use I could get used to it as with any remote. The buttons at the bottom I found particularly hard to use while holding the remote in one hand.

it's pretty sad when a remote for a ~$1,000 receiver isn't designed well....

some companies just don't go the extra mile in making the product user friendly....
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post #102 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 12:34 AM
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Pontiflex,
(edit) I think it's better to post what you like about yamaha and your _actual_ experiences with Denon rather than opinions based on opinions, either way, lively discussion is good, hence I edited my previous response, sorry if it was overly kurt...

So, I did a very small amount of tweaking of my sub tonight(set the xover to 80 hz to match the denon settings) and watched the superbit DTS track of the Fifth Element and must say that although I remain skeptical (mostly because of my afore mentioned Rotel fetish), my post "auto-eq" with the Denon mic experience is quite nice. dropping the xover freq really mitigated the bass over emphasis. First impressions: the auto-eq really did a great job since my all my speakers are different manufacturers and my surround placement is unsymmetrical and very poor. Plasmid
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post #103 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 04:21 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by NXPlasmid
Pontiflex,
Thanks for the Denon bashing. Very useful information for someone, I suppose. I Don't think it is against the forum rules to start your own thread "Denon sucks and Yamaha is great", why don't you. Thanks.

If posting some questions to get more clarification, and posting some opinions about Yamaha and Denon is considered Denon bashing....then...well, welcome to AVS. That's what we're all about here. Posting opinions and experiences and comparing facts. Maybe arguing over our opinions a time or two. I said my piece, I have nothing more to say, and I appreciated KWKarth's response to my post as to why he chose Denon. That was a great response. 'Nuff said.
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post #104 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow...quite the tangent!

I'm glad to hear that the auto-eq seems to be working well. As I've posted, my room is a sonic trainwreck...1.5 story vaulted ceiling, wall of windows, open on 3 sides, etc. I'm hoping that the auto-eq helps to even things out. I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback so far. This has turned out to be a pretty successful thread. Keep the info coming!

Thanks!

J.

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post #105 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 06:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JasonColeman
I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

Be sure to post your impressions, whatever you decide to do.

Warning: OT question coming...
J, what did you end up deciding about the CC570?
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post #106 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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P.M.- Check your pm.

I'll definitely post what I find about the 3805. Needless to say, I'm very eager to finally see it. I'm just hoping that I get the call from my dealer soon!

J.

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post #107 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JasonColeman
Wow...quite the tangent!

I'm glad to hear that the auto-eq seems to be working well. As I've posted, my room is a sonic trainwreck...1.5 story vaulted ceiling, wall of windows, open on 3 sides, etc. I'm hoping that the auto-eq helps to even things out. I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback so far. This has turned out to be a pretty successful thread. Keep the info coming!

Thanks!

J.

Hi Jason,
My room, dimentionally, seems pretty similar to yours, but acoustically, it sounds pretty good for the same reasons. Open, vaulted beam ceilings, overhead balcony, open on 2.5 walls, mostly glass and some wood against one wall. Because of the lack of parallel walls, the room itself does not contribute any overt standing waves. While it makes speaker placement a challenge, sonically, it's a good thing! Although I don't have the Denon mic yet, the auto-EQ seems to work pretty well with the TRS sound level meter mic. I can't wait to see how it does with a more linear mic like the Denon.

ÂOutside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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post #108 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 08:53 AM
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I was just directed to this thread from another thread I started....

I am considering trading in my Yamaha 2400 for the Denon 3805, but I have a couple of questions before I pack the 2400 up:

1. Is there any delay in picking up the digital audio signal from a DVD (like the Harmon/Kardon models do)? I know the 3802 had no delay, but I wanted to make sure that there was no delay in the new model. Its a big pet peeve of mine....

2. How is the sound compared to the Yamaha? Any different from the Denon 3802?
I know that the 3802 definitely had a less bright sound that the Yamaha sound. has this changed at all?

3. I know you have an EQ for all channels on the 3805, but do the bass/treble tone controls affect just the main channels or do the tone controls affect the mains+center?

4. Is there anything that the Yamaha has that the Denon does not? I didn't care for the DSPs on the Yamaha so I won't miss them on the Denon.
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post #109 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 08:55 AM
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Well, I must say I am enjoying the diverse opinions here and the arguments over the Yamaha versus Denon! I've had Yamaha amps for fifteen years, and have the first (what I considered worthy and reasonably priced) consumer digital sound processor, the Yamaha DSP-1 from 1986! And I have just received the Denon 8505 which I purchased because of some of its features which have already been exhaustively commented upon.

I don't have any comments based upon experience with the 8505 yet, because I have used its arrival as a basis for tearing my whole theater down, rewiring everything with 12 gage speaker wire on all the channels and throwing out some components and purchasing other units (including the SOS sub-woofer one peak equalizer).

When some of you have your 8505 operating and auto equalized, I'd be very interested in what your Radio Shack audio meter registers the before and after frequency responses at the sweet spot. I intend to take such measurements, plus performing before and after frequency response measurements at several non sweet spot seating locations, just to see what the auto equalization throws further out of kilter around the viewing area!

Two more points. First, I picked up the 8505 remote while watching a final movie in my totally dark theater. Everyone's comments about its dimness under bright lighting conditions are certainly appropriate. But it really shines in my theater - I mean that literally, I can read the non back lit remotes by it! Second, if anyone bashes ANYTHING I've said here, I solemnly promise not to respond!
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post #110 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 08:58 AM
 
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sonyuser....

i assume you mean the 3805..... rather than the 8505....
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post #111 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 08:59 AM
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Where do I find a Denon 8505 !

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post #112 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey...play nice!

J.

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post #113 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 12:11 PM
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hot sexy amp
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post #114 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Young C
hot sexy amp

Apparently somebody stopped for some serious Happy Hour on their way home to post. Not quite sure what to make of this.

J.

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post #115 of 2681 Old 04-01-2004, 11:13 PM
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Kwkarth

Read your post, feel the same way, cool.

Bob
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post #116 of 2681 Old 04-02-2004, 10:47 AM
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If anyone has any opinions on my questions above, please let me know. If I consider the 3805 I need to get it in the next few days. The main thing I need to know before the trade up is:
How is the sound compared to the yamaha 2400 (any less bright)?
I had the 3802, but the center channel dialog sounded dull/lifeless? Has this changed in the 3805????
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post #117 of 2681 Old 04-02-2004, 10:55 AM
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hahaha..

I received my 3805 yesterday and its slick looking. Therfor i called it a hot sexy amp.

Happy hour, read name.. i'm too young to go drinking.
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post #118 of 2681 Old 04-02-2004, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Too young to go drink, yet you can afford a 3805? Must be nice! I couldn't even afford to buy music back then.

Needless to say, I am quite jealous that you already have yours. Let us know how it is once you get it set up.

Congrats!

J.

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post #119 of 2681 Old 04-02-2004, 01:09 PM
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Did anyone notice the dual (joint) banana plug does not fit on denon 3805? Those + and - speaker connections are little bit far to fit the plug? That plug fits perfectly on all speakers that I have and on my old yamaha receiver.

Also about the battery life on the remote control; the battery came with the receiver died within two days and I replaced with Duracell which died yesterday after around two weeks of use (manual says battery life for at least one year). I have now replaced with 4 brand new Duracell and will see how long it last. Do you guys think my remote is defective?

Receiver is fine and I like it.
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post #120 of 2681 Old 04-02-2004, 02:01 PM
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OK, here goes. Hope someone can help out here. I have a "straight" 5700 that has been good to me for years. Is it worth it to replace the 5700 with the 3805 considering the years and the up-grades? Is the 5700 obsolete yet? Thanks. Be gentle!
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