Pseudo-Official 3805 Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2681 Old 03-18-2004, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems like about a dozen or so members have received their 3805's over the last few days and are busy setting them up in their systems. It doesn't appear that the Denon auto-eq mics are available yet, so we'll either have to wait for those to come in or wait for someone to dare to use a non-Denon mic for setup.

I've looked at the 3803 and many of Pioneer's Elite receivers as well as Yamaha's 1400 and 2400, but the 3805 seems like quite the new contender. I'd be interested in hearing first impressions from new owners. How's the remote, how's intitial setup (w/ or w/o the mic), build quality, etc.? Are you new to Denon components or is this an upgrade from one of their earlier models?

Also what are some of the quirks? I've already seen some confusion as to front-panel display illumination and remote control issues. How "user friendly" is this receiver overall. Will it meet the ever-crucial WAF?


Maybe this thread will be a bust...maybe it'll be a resource. We'll wait and see.


J.

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post #2 of 2681 Old 03-18-2004, 06:44 PM
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I had the 3802/03 and now the 3805,its a big improvement,I think the remote is pretty good also.I have had a bunch lately and the 3805 is the only one I considered worth keeping.There is nothing I don't like about this avr except the fact that it does not sound as good as my Rotel 1068 for pre/pro duh...For features its the bomb and still better even as a pre/pro than the other 1k avr's I tried.Its the only one that I can even tolerate music on.
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post #3 of 2681 Old 03-18-2004, 07:45 PM
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I'll add my first impressions as well. I finally got mine hooked up this afternoon and couldn't be happier. The good news for me is that I have it partnered up with my new Denon 5900 DVD player. My current hook up is as follows:
Denon iLink for DVD Audio and DVD Video
Optical Digital for Sony HD300 STB
Multi Channel Analog input from from 5900 as well

So far, set up has been pretty user friendly. I am a former owner of a Yamaha 2400 (traded up at Tweeter for the 3805 today) and will use that as a comparison point. Set up on the 3805 is more difficult than the Yamaha 2400. The manual is pretty suspect compared to the Yamaha manual. I feel like I did when I first got the 5900. Pretty confused. I'm not using the component switching since all my equipment uses DVI. I have the output set to svideo for OSD Menu.

I haven't touched the EQ settings based on my inexperience in this area, but it looks pretty user friendly once you get the mic. Very similar to the Yamaha. Speaker set up and Input set up are very easy to work through. Typical Speaker size and delay.

One feature I fell in love with on the Yamaha was the DPLIIX (music) and (cinema). My current set up is a 7.1 arrangement so DPLIIx is nice. When listening to DVD Audio (surround sound) the Denon iLink automatically processes the multi channel output and the sound is unbelievable. So far the marriage between the 5900 DVD player and the 3805 is great. DVDs sound great as well. The Yammy sounded a tad better in my opinion on the DVD Video side, but I think the EQ settings played a roll in that. I'll report back once I get the EQ settings done.

SACD via the Analog inputs is nice as well, but this comes from the 5900. I haven't listened to many, but Elton John's GBYBR sounded great. The only hassle I had was having to go into the 5900 menu and disable the Denon link to get the right sound. No major issues from the 3805 perspective.

Comparing the Yammy and the Denon from a features perspective I found myself a bit sad. I liked the DSP modes that the Yammy offered. I found that watching TV shows in different modes was experimental and fun. With the Denon , you have a few choices but no where near what the Yammy offered. It also seemed like the Yammy directed the audio better when I was listening to two channel audio outputting with DPLIIx. This may be an EQ issue.

I have found that the remote does get a little tricky. I like it better than the Yammy remote because it has the ability to do all my DVD switching as well. I haven't done any "learning" with other components so stay tuned for that one. One area I have had problems with was getting the DPLIIx off. Once I clicked it on, when I went back to standard surround it stayed on. Not sure what is going on.

Audio quality is stunning IMO. Once I got everything fired up, I let it fly and it sounded clear and very sharp with my Klipsch speakers. The Denon iLink is the deal maker for me. Frankly, if it wasn't for that I personally enjoyed the Yammy a tad bit more. The audio is very comparable and the set up and manual were a tad bit easier to walk through. I do think the EQ settings will help out on the overall sound quality. More to follow.

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post #4 of 2681 Old 03-18-2004, 09:21 PM
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Cabber...Do you still use the Analog in/out instead of D-link for some purposes...Which ones?

I have the 5900 and a 3803, thinking of upgrading.

Thanks

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post #5 of 2681 Old 03-18-2004, 09:41 PM
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Hay Cabber

I'm kind of in the same boat, about whether or not to keep the 2400 or trade it in for the 3805. You see I bought my 2400 at Tweeter's two weeks ago, with the idea that when the 3805 came out I would go to Tweeter's and compare the two, and then pick the best one, but the salesman at TW told me that they ran out of stock on the 2400 and even sold the demo, so now I can't compare them side to side, and also that he did'nt know how long the 3805's would be in stock. So I would be very interested in your comments about the 3805 and any comparison's or opinions you might have between the two.

Thank-You Bob
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post #6 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 05:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by moonhawk
Cabber...Do you still use the Analog in/out instead of D-link for some purposes...Which ones?

I have the 5900 and a 3803, thinking of upgrading.

Thanks

Yes, I use the Analog in/out for SACD purposes. The way it has been explained to me was that Denon is waiting for approval form Sony to be able to pass through SACD via the Denon iLink (5900 DVD player). This would eliminate the use of all the analog cables once this happens.

I do think that a few of my DVD-A disk sound better via the Denon iLink versus the SACD Analog disks.

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post #7 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 05:44 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bobdons1
Hay Cabber

I'm kind of in the same boat, about whether or not to keep the 2400 or trade it in for the 3805. You see I bought my 2400 at Tweeter's two weeks ago, with the idea that when the 3805 came out I would go to Tweeter's and compare the two, and then pick the best one, but the salesman at TW told me that they ran out of stock on the 2400 and even sold the demo, so now I can't compare them side to side, and also that he did'nt know how long the 3805's would be in stock. So I would be very interested in your comments about the 3805 and any comparison's or opinions you might have between the two.

Thank-You Bob

Bob,

I'd say right now...it depends. I really enjoyed the feature set with the 2400. As I mentioned above, the main reason for my switching receivers was the marriage between the 5900 DVD player and the Denon receiver. Pretty much plug and play using the Denon link and the sound quality is superb. The Yammy also comes with the m ic to set up your personal environment versus the Denon "no mic" situation. On a physical appearance side, I like the looks o f the Denon a bit more, but no a deal maker. The Yammy was pretty sharp as well. DOes your Yammy have the DPLIIX feature? If you plan to upgrade your speaker config, you'll enjoy this feature. I thought the Yammy did better with this feature while watching 2 channel audio from the TV (STB). The Denon offers 7.1 (8) channel analog input for analog. The Yammy only had 5.1 (6). Once again, this feature may assist with future upgrades of speaker set up.

From an audio perspective, I have no complaints with either. The Denon link seems to make DVD Audio a bit cleaner to my ears but I have not utilized the EQ settings for final results. Both have enough power for my environment. Set up is easier with the Yammy. Changing DSP modes I give the advantage to the Yammy. The Yammy also offers THX (if you ever use it). One other feature the Denon offers is the ability to hook up additional Surround speakers. You have a choice of adding two more on the side (A and B). You can configure the receiver to use both or one set based on your personal preference. Overkill for me (at this time), but who knows what the future holds.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

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post #8 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info so far you guys. I'm debating whether or not to go ahead and pre-order the 3805, so all of your input really helps! Apparently there are more than just a few 3805 owners out there. It's good to hear about the different listening modes, as most of my use will be 2-channel and multichannel audio. I've never been too concerned with the different DSP modes, but that's probably because I've never used them.

Keep the info coming!

J.

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post #9 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 07:26 AM
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My 3805 should be at my local Showcase (Tweeter Company) today! They were nice enough to do it for $999 and loan me a mic when they get them in for free. I knew there was a reason I keep going back to Showcase.

I can't wait to set this receiver up today. I am upgrading from a Pioneer Elite 27tx. This is a major upgrade for me. (Component switching, PL IIx, etc.) I will post when I get it all setup.

Brian
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post #10 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Brian-

Sounds like a pretty good price, especially with the loaner mic. I, too, am upgrading from a significantly older receiver, Sony's DE845 (not in the same league as the Pioneer). I got it a few years ago for a couple hundred bucks and it has served me pretty well, but it's time for it to go (into the basement!).

Let us know how the setup goes!

J.

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post #11 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 09:45 AM
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Well, just took possession of both my Denon AVR-3805 and my Denon DVD-2900. Didn't think I was going to see either of them until around the 1st of April but looks like Tweeter's came through for me. The only problem I'm having now is hanging around the office till quitting time. I've already told the wife not to make any plans for me this afternoon.
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post #12 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 09:58 AM
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Quote:


The way it has been explained to me was that Denon is waiting for approval form Sony to be able to pass through SACD via the Denon iLink (5900 DVD player). This would eliminate the use of all the analog cables once this happens.

This raises some questions.
Will the 5900 keep the signal in DSD domain or will it convert it to PCM?
If it keeps it DSD,is the 3805 equiped as such to handle "raw"DSD signal,or will it convert to PCM?
Also, wasn't the Denon link was sorta "handicapped" by the many copyprotected DVD-As that wouldn't pass through?

sent via Morse code...........

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post #13 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 10:34 AM
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Hooked up 3805 with 7.1 speaker, DVD, VCR etc. Sound very good on my old speakers. DVD-A with external input (5.1) sound clean when used pure direct mode on 3805 receiver and audio only on DVD player. I hope Denon will produce a DVD player with denon link 3 for less than $1000 or even less than $500. I will love to use auto-eq feature once Denon mic is available.
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post #14 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 10:39 AM
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I got the 3805 setup last night and all I can say is wow. It sounds superb right out of the box!

I plan on playing with the EQ tonight. Tomorrow I will be setting up my kitchen speakers on Zone 2. I have 5.1 in the receiver now, so I plan to use the rear surrounds for the Zone 2 setup. The ability to play a different source to a different zone and control the volume from this unit was critical for the wife approval factor!

Next purchase will be a 5900 so I can use iLink

//t0pher
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post #15 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 12:08 PM
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Quote:


This raises some questions.
Will the 5900 keep the signal in DSD domain or will it convert it to PCM?
If it keeps it DSD,is the 3805 equiped as such to handle "raw"DSD signal,or will it convert to PCM?

No. The 5900 converts the DSD signal to LPCM. I obtained this answer by Kris Deering in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=369801
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post #16 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 02:41 PM
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I went to my local Tweeter here in South Jersey and picked up the 3805 today. I am replacing an older Denon 3802. I wanted to have a receiver that was a bit more up to date. My 3802 was becoming just a bit dated.

My first impression opening the box was not too good. At first I thought I got a unit that had been returned because it had masking tape holding the items in the box (see picture). After I looked some more I guessed that this was done because Denon did not have a new custom foam insert to hold the remote and other items. Kind of piss poor if you ask me but I went ahead and took it out of the box to begin setup.

Using a flashlight I looked inside through the vents to see whatever was visible. First thing that struck me was the power supply. It is the exact same power supply as in the older 3802. I could tell this because of the part numbers on the power supplies were the same! Aside from the common power supply everything else looked different.

The layout of the connections are good. A little more organized than the 3802 was. In my opinion anyway.

I'm using my 3805 to do component video switching. I feed a HD cable box and a DVD to the unit. When I was playing around with the new 3805 during setup I noticed some lines showing up on the TV whenever I select an unused video input. I was afraid that this 'noise' or whatever it is would end up making its way onto the video signals of anything the 3805 was controlling. So far I have not been able to see any interference when viewing a signal (cable HD or DVD), only seems to be visible when selecting an empty input. I'll look at this more over the weekend.

The setup menu is just about the same as the older 3802 with the exception of the additional items for EQ , etc. It is the same dull , boring display graphics. Nothing fancy. But it works.

My 3805 feeds Klipsch RF3 series speakers. Initial audio performance judgment is that it is slightly better than the 3802 was. Difficult to do an A / B type comparison between the two units obviously but having been used to the 3802 for a couple of years I was able to tell some difference. It sounds a little more brighter , perhaps I am noticing a bit more detail. The older 3802 only had single ended DACs on each channel. The 3805 has dual differential DACs on each channel. Possibly I'm noticing some more resolution in the audio. I will do more audio tests over the weekend !

I discovered that I could use my Radio Shack sound level meter as a calibration microphone ! See the pictures in the post following this one. I set my Radio Shack meter to the 80 scale, C weighting, and fast response mode. Connected an audio coax from it to the V. AUX L jack on the front panel of the 3805 and in the setup menu of the 3805 I selected V. AUX instead of MIC. During the auto EQ setup it takes the signal being fed into it from that input instead of the microphone jack !! And it worked. It successfully determined the speaker configuration/distance/ and EQ settings. (Well I guess one could say that the EQ settings are hard to tell if they are really correct or not but they sound pretty good once applied). So there you have it. I'll post more as I play more with it.
LL
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post #17 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 02:43 PM
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see pic
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post #18 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 02:44 PM
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post #19 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 03:09 PM
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Just a little tip, you should get a better auto EQ job if the RS meter is pointed straight up, so all speakers would have equal "sight" of the mic. You probably already knew that though.

But just in case you didn't.

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #20 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 03:14 PM
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Thanks NeoSNJ for posting auto eq setting tricks !!!

Interesting and useful information about the use of Radio Shack sound level meter instead of microphone. I will pick up that meter from Radio Shack and will do some testing tonight. This meter may be more useful for future than microphone also cost less than Denon mic.
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post #21 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by NeoSNJ
I discovered that I could use my Radio Shack sound level meter as a calibration microphone !

Interesting.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." -Sir Walter Scott

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post #22 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 03:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by avaholic
Just a little tip, you should get a better auto EQ job if the RS meter is pointed straight up, so all speakers would have equal "sight" of the mic. You probably already knew that though.

But just in case you didn't.

Best Regards,
Patrick

Yes... I did do the calibration with it pointing up, but when I took the picture I just happened to have it pointed down.

During the AUTO EQ calibration the 3805 sounds a 1 to 2 second burst out of each speaker. When I watch the Radio Shack meter is appears to be around 85 db on the meter. That is why I chose to set it on the 80 scale so that it was operating in a 'working' range of the 3805 output calibration tone.
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post #23 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 06:51 PM
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Hey Cabber

Thanks for the quick reply, and to answer your question yes mine has the DLPIIx, but I haven't tried it yet, because I'm running a 5.1 system. The main reason I upgraded from a H/K 320 to the yammy is 5 channels verse 7 channels, more power and video up conversion, I wanted the extra two channels for powering a set of speakers on my deck. I guess my problem is that I want to make sure that, for the money, that I get the better receiver. I did a comparison at T/W about two months ago between the 2400 and the then 3803, and I was impressed with the sound, and build quality of both receivers, but I was surprised as to how speaker sensitivity changed the sound characterirtics of both these receivers, I.E. the 2400 sounded really clean and detailed on speakers with a rating of 90db and higher, and dull and boomy, on speakers 89db and below, and just the opposite on the 3803 the speakers were Boston acoustic's, and the Sapphire (90db and up), and the Mirage (89db and below), all tower speakers. I did alot of research on both these receivers and did not find were anybody else noticed this anomaly. Ops, ran out of room (NEXT POST DOWN)
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post #24 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 06:59 PM
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Cabber
Sorry didn't mien to get off on a rave. I would be interested in knowing what kind of speakers you are using? I'm using Wharfedale Sapphire 89's front, and SP 83's rear, with a JBL Center, and sub.

Thanks Bob
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post #25 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 08:32 PM
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It's pretty neat that you can hook up the Rat Shack SPL meter to the 3805, but I would have a pretty big concern over using it since it is so notoriously inaccurate (100hz down and 2000-10000hz).

http://www.rivesaudio.com/files/Spl.pdf

Also, it's kind of hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like your Klipsch's are either facing straight foward or are possibly even toed out. Klipsch really recommends aiming them in far enough that the outer angle of the horn is parallel to the side walls or further in. Just a thought...I don't know if you can do that with your room or not since I haven't seen the rest of it, but it might be worth a try if your setup permits.
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post #26 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 10:42 PM
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I e-mailed Denon to see what kind of non-Denon microphone can be used with the 3805 that will provide accurate results. Here is their response:

Quote:


The specs for Non-Denon microphones and required mic amplifier for use with the AVR-3805 auto setup and room EQ function are as follows:

Required Microphone Specifications

Element: Electric Condenser Microphone
Polar Pattern: Omni-directional
Sensitivity: -40dBV (0dB = 1V/1Pa)
Frequency Response: 20~20kHz Flat Response (Ex: Behringer ECM-8000)

Required Microphone Amplifier Specification

Gain: 29dB
Frequency Response: 10~30kHz Full Flat

Jason
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post #27 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 10:50 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jasonwatkins
I e-mailed Denon to see what kind of non-Denon microphone can be used with the 3805 that will provide accurate results. Here is their response:

And here is that Behringer ECM-8000, that they said would work.
And for about $25 less, than the cost of the $65 Denon microphone.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=248-625
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post #28 of 2681 Old 03-19-2004, 11:17 PM
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Interesting thing trying to setup the second zone - I wired two speakers to the Surround Back L/R and set the Power Amp Assign for Zone2 to drive them. I popped an audio cd into my DVD-2200 and set the Zone2 input to DVD...nothing.

So I read more and found out that I can't get a digital signal to the Zone2 or Zone3 (and my DVD is hooked in via digital coax only.) So I grabbed my trusty Canare crimp tool and a few lenghts of Belden 1694A and made up some RCA cables for an analog connection. Suddenly, there was beautiful sound in my kitchen!

What's cool is that the main zone is playing the digital signal while Zone2 is playing the analog signal. I didn't know I could do that

Of course, it then took me an hour to program the macro to turn on just zone 2 and the dvd player

Well now I am going out to get a mic...

//t0pher
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post #29 of 2681 Old 03-20-2004, 06:49 AM
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Okay, I'm new to Denon products so you have to hang with me. When cutting up the volume on the receiver it is supposed to display your volume settings on the television. I'm running component cables to the tv along with s-video cables. When the tv is set to the s-video input, it displays the volume settings on the tv. But, when I switch to the component input on the television, NOTHING. Is there a setting I need to change to correct this. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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post #30 of 2681 Old 03-20-2004, 07:02 AM
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Unfortunately the 'overlay' does not work on component. The setup menu can be displayed via component but the on screen display only is visible via the lesser video input modes. I was a bit disappointed to find this out myself on mine.
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