Integra Research RDC-7 => 7.1 upgrade/trade-in announcement? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2166 Old 12-07-2004, 03:12 PM
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I think the decision was made because the integrated volumecontrol probably made the design much easier.

Actually looking at the page again it seems I was wrong about the volume control, its just mute and attenuate which doesnt work with DSD.

My guess is the 8719 looks a good highend Dac thats well suited but its not the best possible.
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post #182 of 2166 Old 12-07-2004, 08:41 PM
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Most likely, they offer a "pure DSD" mode with no signal processing to keep the SACD purists happy. That would require a DAC with DSD capabilities even though those of us who know better wouldn't use it that way.

Dennis H
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post #183 of 2166 Old 12-07-2004, 08:51 PM
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There is no pure DSD mode mentioned in the manual for the Integra DTR-10.5, which is likely nearly identical to the RDC-7.1 in capability.

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post #184 of 2166 Old 12-07-2004, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
3 Band Equaliser for each channel

That's potentially a Big Deal. I'd trade all the auto EQ schemes out there for 3 bands of fully user-adjustable parametric EQ any day. Computers just aren't smart enough to interpret in-room measurements correctly but, so far, none of the receiver manufacturers trust us to make the adjustments ourselves.

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post #185 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 06:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by catapult
Most likely, they offer a "pure DSD" mode with no signal processing to keep the SACD purists happy. That would require a DAC with DSD capabilities even though those of us who know better wouldn't use it that way.

So, is DSD just another IP-driven Sony invention with real world execution problems and handicaps?
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post #186 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 06:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by catapult
That's potentially a Big Deal. I'd trade all the auto EQ schemes out there for 3 bands of fully user-adjustable parametric EQ any day. Computers just aren't smart enough to interpret in-room measurements correctly but, so far, none of the receiver manufacturers trust us to make the adjustments ourselves.

I'll second that!
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post #187 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmm I hadn't noticed the eq. That does sound nice. Re: the mfrs not trusting us, it may be because it's easier to use an eq to screw things up than improve things...though I'd certainly be happy to have it.

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post #188 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 09:04 AM
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Rats! Looking through the Integra receiver manual, the "equalizer" is just a 3-band tone control: bass, mid, treble.

Dennis H
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post #189 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 09:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pepar
So, is DSD just another IP-driven Sony invention with real world execution problems and handicaps?

Yes, YOU GOT IT!
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post #190 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by catapult
Rats! Looking through the Integra receiver manual, the "equalizer" is just a 3-band tone control: bass, mid, treble.


Ugh. Better to have left it out entirely then IMO.

TM

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post #191 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 11:10 AM
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One thing I was thinking is that the Apogee clock could really help I-Link performance since the amp dictates the rate of transfer. An accurate clock on the amp could help reduce jitter even more so for I-Link devices, any one else have any thoughts on this?
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post #192 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 02:07 PM
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It's true that, with i.Link, the only clock that matters is the one in the prepro or receiver. As long as the transport can read the data, jitter in the transport doesn't really matter because the ones and zeros get transmitted as packets of data, stored in a buffer in the prepro, and then reclocked. So, if you're using i.Link, chances are you could use the cheaper Onkyo transport, rather than the expensive IR version, with no loss of audio quality.

Edit: PS - the same thing should apply with NetTune. As long as you have an accurate wav file on your computer, it should get transmitted over ethernet, buffered and reclocked the same way.

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post #193 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 02:52 PM
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I thought that Apogee clock was for recovering high-quality clock from S/PDIF or other no-flow-control links. I still think that Apogee clock wouldn't impact a lot on i.Link clock quality with CD/DVDA/SACD.
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post #194 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 02:53 PM
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Catapault,

Interesting, so infact an accurate clock is more important than its ever been. It will be interesting to see if the new RDC does indeed have the best yet I-Link performance. I would use a Pioneer 59AVI with it if I get one.

One thing I cant understand is how the AV/C commands (PQLS, HATS etc.) can be optional for I-Link. From your description I would assume they are required to prevent buffer overflow or completely unecessary since data is buffered anyway and accurate rate control is hence not necessary.
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post #195 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 03:18 PM
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jheoaustin, you could be right. You need a high-quality, low-jitter clock in the prepro but you probably wouldn't need the Apogee's extra jitter-removing circuits. That said, I don't know exactly how the Apogee does its magic so I'm just guessing.

Krobar, in the long "standard digital interface" (or something like that) thread, dr1394 monitored the commands between a Pioneer receiver and transport. As I recall, it had to run something like an hour before the receiver sent a "slow down" command indicating the buffer was getting too full. So, while it's a nice feature, it's possible that most people wouldn't notice the difference. However, if different brands of components were used, with different clocks, it might be more important. Regardless, it's available in the standard and they should all implement it.

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post #196 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 03:52 PM
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Catapault,

If AV/C is not present then does the Pre amp simply throw away packets in order to stop a buffer overflow or stop transfer until the buffer is ready again?

Also I cant seem to find mention of the Analogue subwoofer signal creation ("Non Scaling Cofiguration") in the new processor .
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post #197 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 04:04 PM
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Quote:


If AV/C is not present then does the Pre amp simply throw away packets in order to stop a buffer overflow

I think so. Buffer underflow is a possibility as well. If both components support it, every so often, the receiver sends one of 3 commands to the transmitter - send normal speed, send a little faster, send a little slower. Most of the time it's the send normal speed command. If they don't support the protocol, the transmitter just sends at the normal speed all the time. dr1394 is the one to ask. He's a professional 1394 developer and has the knowledge and test gear to really dig into how these things work.

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post #198 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 04:45 PM
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Okay, I found a few of dr1394's posts in the long thread. Using a Pioneer transport and receiver, he had to let it run for several hours before he got a slow-down command to prevent buffer overflow. If you pop a disk in and play it once, it will probably never get triggered. But that's with same-brand gear.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...38#post2879438
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post2889583
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...77#post2898777

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post #199 of 2166 Old 12-08-2004, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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FWIW a dealer I'm in contact with claims to have the 7.1 in stock, along with the various modules, and ready to ship. I'm investigating further...

TM

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post #200 of 2166 Old 12-10-2004, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Update: he still claims to have them and is pricing out my build...

TM

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post #201 of 2166 Old 12-10-2004, 08:34 AM
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Interesting... Although the closest dealer to me is about a 1-1.5 hour drive depending on traffic. Keep us informed anthonymoody, as I am interested in knowing your experiences, especially if you get a chance to demo one.
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post #202 of 2166 Old 12-10-2004, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by catapult
I think so. Buffer underflow is a possibility as well. If both components support it, every so often, the receiver sends one of 3 commands to the transmitter - send normal speed, send a little faster, send a little slower. Most of the time it's the send normal speed command. If they don't support the protocol, the transmitter just sends at the normal speed all the time. dr1394 is the one to ask. He's a professional 1394 developer and has the knowledge and test gear to really dig into how these things work.

If flow control is not available in either side of the link, both will work with default isochronous mode. This means that the PLL inside the receiver is engaged to recover clock from time stamp information in the 1394 stream. There shouldn't be any drop-off, but the PLL-generated clock will be subject to jitter, meaning potential sound quality degrade.
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post #203 of 2166 Old 12-10-2004, 03:42 PM
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Any Integra Research dealers in Las Vegas? Website says closest is in Reno, but that doesn't make any sense.
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post #204 of 2166 Old 12-10-2004, 05:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gimp
Any Integra Research dealers in Las Vegas? Website says closest is in Reno, but that doesn't make any sense.

Image Sound and Control used to be the IR dealer in Vegas. IR dropped them so now the only IR dealer in Nevada is the one in Reno. If you want to demo the unit you're out of luck. If you want to buy it call IR dealers from other states and see what deals you can get - probably 15-20% off MSRP.

R
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post #205 of 2166 Old 12-11-2004, 11:51 AM
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Any Integra Research dealers in Las Vegas? Website says closest is in Reno, but that doesn't make any sense.

Makes more sense than the UK situation. I tried 8 dealers off the official list today and it seeems that IR is currently unavailable in the UK. The nearest dealer to me is in Germany.
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post #206 of 2166 Old 12-11-2004, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I'm jumping on the sword for everyone. I ordered a 7.1 sight unseen and sound unheard from the dealer I spoke with. He says a 5 day build time plus shipping and that I should have it before Christmas - we'll see. If it doesn't meet my expectations and needs in terms of sound quality I'll have no qualms sending it back and getting the Anthem D1 instead. Thing is, I have two digital video sources already and I really want the ability to easily switch b/t them now, not at some undetermined date in the future (as with the Anthem). I know outboard switching solutions exist, but they are inelegant and don't have a high WAF.

In the meantime I'm still livid at IR for their handling of the topic of this thread - namely the on again off again trade-in policy for RDC-7 owners. We'll see what becomes of this of course. It may still be too early to tell. If I keep the 7.1 and IR doesn't offer a trade in on the RDC-7 then my purchase will certainly represent me swallowing my pride. So be it. I was able to retire the RDC-7 to a weekend home theater (which needed a new pre/pro) so financially no big loss I guess.

If Anthem were ready now with their HDMI upgrade to the D1 I probably would've gone there. But the April time frame last mentioned by Anthem will only slip IMO and I need a pre/pro now so...

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted.

TM

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post #207 of 2166 Old 12-11-2004, 12:37 PM
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Anthony,

You're a brave man and I await your verdict, particuarly on the audio and ease of use side of things.

As you mentioned outboard video processing, do IR give out the RS232 codes for their products? I need them if I buy an RDC in order to allow my autoswitching of the video processor through Gider to work.
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post #208 of 2166 Old 12-11-2004, 03:48 PM
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IR sent me the RS232 codes for the RDC-7, and i suspect they'll do the same for the RDC-7.1.

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post #209 of 2166 Old 12-12-2004, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Krobar,

Sounds like Steve has more info on that. I didn't control my RDC7 via RS232 and wont be doing so with the 7.1 so couldn't tell you how it'd work. Steve, if you want to send me your AMX touchscreen I'd be happy to hook it up to the 7.1 to see if it works

As for ease of use, I must admit that's one thing I found to be fantastic with the RDC7. There was never really a function I couldn't figure out w/o having to check the manual. Hopefully they didn't muck it up on the 7.1!

TM

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post #210 of 2166 Old 12-13-2004, 11:34 AM
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At CEDIA, one of the representatives showed me a comprehensive document listing every RS232 command for every I / IR product manufactured. They'd put quite a bit of work into it to address installer complaints.
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