List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers - Page 10 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers
Daryl L's Avatar Daryl L 12:02 PM 08-31-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by beowulf7
Is there anyway of normalizing the volume across all sources?

Nope.

lvis's Avatar lvis 12:43 PM 08-31-2004
im not sure on these new receivers...but on my old kenwood i can change the DB level of each input from -3 to +3....so based on this...you can attempt to make the inputs within the same decibel range...(basically normalizing the volume on the various inputs...)
Daryl L's Avatar Daryl L 01:41 PM 08-31-2004
Kenwood VRS-7100 has the Input Level Adjustment but thats for Analog signals only. That can try to balance to analog vs. digital levels. Still all the tv channels are going to be of unequal volume levels. Some tv's have a Stable Volume level feature but just like the surround mode feature most don't work through the audio out jacks. If it's cable tv he can complain of this to them, they can adjust it. They've had to do it on our cable service before.
blackmax2k1's Avatar blackmax2k1 02:02 PM 08-31-2004
Good deal on Sony 3000ES.

Linky
lvis's Avatar lvis 03:40 PM 08-31-2004
Wow...it is a good deal...i'd like to jump on...but have they fixed the hiss issue?? Can this be old stock with the problem...or old/new stock with the fix??
Pace's Avatar Pace 04:31 PM 08-31-2004
You should send them an e-mail and ask if the box has (on a sticker if IIRC) letter "A" on it.

That means that it is new stock.
beowulf7's Avatar beowulf7 10:36 PM 08-31-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by Daryl L
Kenwood VRS-7100 has the Input Level Adjustment but thats for Analog signals only. That can try to balance to analog vs. digital levels. Still all the tv channels are going to be of unequal volume levels. Some tv's have a Stable Volume level feature but just like the surround mode feature most don't work through the audio out jacks. If it's cable tv he can complain of this to them, they can adjust it. They've had to do it on our cable service before.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, he mostly noticed it between channels for his analog cable TV service. I watched back-to-back DVDs on Sat. and the sound level seemed pretty normalized between the DVDs. But I wish I used the "midnight mode" feature for the 2nd DVD b/c it had some loud passages that woke up my family (and they weren't too happy about it) during the middle of the night.
faheem5's Avatar faheem5 09:35 AM 09-02-2004
I remember reading recently that the new Panasonic XR70 should be released around Sept 24. Any update on this???
Alex solomon's Avatar Alex solomon 10:09 AM 09-02-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by faheem5
I remember reading recently that the new Panasonic XR70 should be released around Sept 24. Any update on this???

Called Videodirect today. Unit will be in around the end of Sept.
faheem5's Avatar faheem5 10:20 AM 09-02-2004
thats good to hear...I am glad that the information is from VideoDirect. They actually have the chepest price I have seen online (item+shipping) and its hard to belive they offer that price being autorized dealer. Thanks for the info, and if you get any information in the future (exact date) please let us know. Thanks agian.
alantkh's Avatar alantkh 03:02 AM 09-03-2004
have anyone tried the sony DA9000ES with 4 ohms speakers??? I have 5 thiel CS 1.6 and I am wondering how they will sound with DA9000ES. I don't have a chance to demo the sony with the thiels so that is why I am posting here.

any ideas?? thanks.
Pace's Avatar Pace 06:45 AM 09-03-2004
Hi. The sony will not have any power related problems driving 4 ohm speakers; I had a pair of Audio Pro 4 ohm speakers and my DB2000 (the cheapest S-Master Pro model in europe) drove them with authority.

But... there is a slight problem with your thiels. Due to the fact that they have a flat impedance curve up to 20kHz (where it is at 5 ohms), there probably is a slight dip towards the 20kHz in the FR of the receiver (about -2dB at 20kHz). This is due to the digital amplification technology.
SoftwireEngineer's Avatar SoftwireEngineer 03:20 PM 09-03-2004
Pace, where did you find the information on the Freq. Response of the receiver ? This seems to be inline with my very short audition of these receivers. They seem a little smooth/rolled off on top, like my Audio Refinement Complete amp.
Pace's Avatar Pace 04:35 PM 09-03-2004
The finnish Hi-Fi magazine I've referred to before made a bunch of measurments including the FR with 8 and 4 ohm loads. Due to the high output impedance of digital amplifiers, the highs are slightly rolled off at low impedance loads; the 8 ohms FR was completely flat, but with 4 ohms it was about 2dB down.
Tack's Avatar Tack 05:51 PM 09-03-2004
Just saw an open box xr25 at CC for 169...is that worth picking up to re-sell? Or are ppl just getting the xr50s now?


edit. NM just looked on ebay and theres buy it now auctions for 179...

Oh well
M Code's Avatar M Code 01:38 PM 09-04-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by Pace
The finnish Hi-Fi magazine I've referred to before made a bunch of measurments including the FR with 8 and 4 ohm loads. Due to the high output impedance of digital amplifiers, the highs are slightly rolled off at low impedance loads; the 8 ohms FR was completely flat, but with 4 ohms it was about 2dB down.

That is one of the advantages of the HK 1005 and 2005, they include a switchable impedance network through the OSD for 4, 6 and 8 Ohms. Digital amplifiers and their output filters are typically designed for 8 Ohms and when used into lower impedances the high frequency response will roll off significantly...
Pace's Avatar Pace 02:35 PM 09-04-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by M Code
That is one of the advantages of the HK 1005 and 2005, they include a switchable impedance network through the OSD for 4, 6 and 8 Ohms. Digital amplifiers and their output filters are typically designed for 8 Ohms and when used into lower impedances the high frequency response will roll off significantly...

Care to tell me more as this just seems stupid, as lower output impedance is always better. Works better with higher impedance speakers too. If HK has this kind of setting, I don't see the purpose...

[EDIT]To me this setting sounds like it might be some sort of treble boost to equal out the roll-off caused by lower impendance speakers.
M Code's Avatar M Code 03:12 PM 09-04-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by Pace
Care to tell me more as this just seems stupid, as lower output impedance is always better. Works better with higher impedance speakers too. If HK has this kind of setting, I don't see the purpose...

[EDIT]To me this setting sounds like it might be some sort of treble boost to equal out the roll-off caused by lower impendance speakers.

OK..
A digital PWM amplifier uses an inductor filter @ its output to the speaker, these are crucial to match its frequency for the load impedance. Since most loudspeakers are 8 Ohms this inductor is optimized for that load, so that amplifier's frequency response is flat as possibile for the audible bandwidth out to 20kHz..
However if the the speaker impedance is lower such as 4 Ohms then a filter's designed for 8 Ohms will not be flat out to 20kHz.. There will be a faster rolloff in the high frequencies, making the amplifier's high frequency response to be down by a few dB..

Note the inductor filter can be optimized for any loudspeaker inpedance 4 , 6 or 8 Ohms but only for a single impedance. Since most loudspeakers are 8 Ohms then this is what the engineer designs to...

Since HK is part of Harman International who own JBL, Infinity and Revel they are fully aware of various loudspeaker impedances so they have designed into the HK digital amplifiers this advanced feature which assures flat frequency response regardless of loudspeaker brand or impedance...
SoftwireEngineer's Avatar SoftwireEngineer 06:25 PM 09-04-2004
With the XR50, you can select both the A and B speakers so that the amplifier can handle a 4ohm load (two 8ohm load in parallel). You can uses this 'workaround' when your speakers are 4ohms.
M Code's Avatar M Code 09:26 PM 09-04-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by SoftwireEngineer
With the XR50, you can select both the A and B speakers so that the amplifier can handle a 4ohm load (two 8ohm load in parallel). You can uses this 'workaround' when your speakers are 4ohms.

Yes..
The Panasonic is designed for 8 Ohms so if the final impedance seen by the amplifier is 8 Ohms then all is well..
However my understanding was that the A/B speaker switching for the Panasonic was series so then one could use (2) 4 Ohms speakers in series but then is one going to have 2 pairs of L/R front speakers...
Seems kinda strange...
Pace's Avatar Pace 01:15 PM 09-05-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by M Code
OK..
A digital PWM amplifier uses an inductor filter @ its output to the speaker, these are crucial to match its frequency for the load impedance. Since most loudspeakers are 8 Ohms this inductor is optimized for that load, so that amplifier's frequency response is flat as possibile for the audible bandwidth out to 20kHz..
However if the the speaker impedance is lower such as 4 Ohms then a filter's designed for 8 Ohms will not be flat out to 20kHz.. There will be a faster rolloff in the high frequencies, making the amplifier's high frequency response to be down by a few dB..

Note the inductor filter can be optimized for any loudspeaker inpedance 4 , 6 or 8 Ohms but only for a single impedance. Since most loudspeakers are 8 Ohms then this is what the engineer designs to...

Since HK is part of Harman International who own JBL, Infinity and Revel they are fully aware of various loudspeaker impedances so they have designed into the HK digital amplifiers this advanced feature which assures flat frequency response regardless of loudspeaker brand or impedance...

Still seems like a odd setting, for several reasons.

1) Speaker impedance isn't the same throughout the frequency range. So a speaker with nominal 4 ohm impedance might (and most likely) have higher impedance at higher frequencies... So what setting to use with 4 ohm speakers which have impedance of 16 ohms at 20kHz?

2) The roll-off is caused by the high output impedance. To flatten this out with lower impedance speakers there are two options: either eq it out or lower the output impedance. But if lowering the output impedance is possible, it should be done even for 8 ohm speakers; there is no harm in doing that.

So, would you care to explain me once again; what exactly does the HK setting do? As to me it seems, that it would be optimal to use it with the 4 ohm setting regardless what speakers you are using. What would be the downside?
M Code's Avatar M Code 07:37 PM 09-05-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by Pace
Still seems like a odd setting, for several reasons.

1) Speaker impedance isn't the same throughout the frequency range. So a speaker with nominal 4 ohm impedance might (and most likely) have higher impedance at higher frequencies... So what setting to use with 4 ohm speakers which have impedance of 16 ohms at 20kHz?

Loudspeaker impedance is a nominal value as it will vary over its frequency response range, use nominal value supplied by the brand as it is a good average.

Quote:



2) The roll-off is caused by the high output impedance. To flatten this out with lower impedance speakers there are two options: either eq it out or lower the output impedance. But if lowering the output impedance is possible, it should be done even for 8 ohm speakers; there is no harm in doing that.

So, would you care to explain me once again; what exactly does the HK setting do? As to me it seems, that it would be optimal to use it with the 4 ohm setting regardless what speakers you are using. What would be the downside?



You do not want to use EQ to correct for the frequency response, as this will likely cause audible ringing just as this is now being reported often with these Room EQ schemes... They add alot of audible distortion..
If you want more technical details, you should probably contact HK directly..
Ramunas's Avatar Ramunas 04:38 AM 09-08-2004
new receiver

2 HDMI in, 1 out

DCDi

 

dfr900.pdf 218.859375k . file
Attached: dfr900.pdf (218.9 KB) 
Chad B's Avatar Chad B 05:43 AM 09-08-2004
Wow, thanks Ramunas! That Philips looks mighty interesting. The video processing is a big plus over the Panny XR70, which I've been waiting for. I like the 3 coaxial digital inputs, but only one optical means alot of people (including me) will have to use an optical switcher. No big deal. Looks like it has binding posts on all inputs, PLIIx, and nice cosmetics. Oh, and it has the full sized AC power cord socket, so those who are so inclined can peplace the power cord w/o adapters.
One thing that has me saying "Hmmm" is the line about them designing the digital amp for the best possible audio measurements. I wonder how it will sound compared to the Panny and Kenwood.
Nice!

Patrick TX's Avatar Patrick TX 10:23 AM 09-08-2004
Quote:


Philips DFR 900

WOW. That unit looks awesome on paper, as well as cosmetically! It looks to be exclusive to Europe though?
vishal's Avatar vishal 10:36 AM 09-08-2004
Quote:


Originally posted by Patrick TX
It looks to be exclusive to Europe though?

Yah, you're right:
Quote:


Power supply 50/60 Hz, 220-240V


SoftwireEngineer's Avatar SoftwireEngineer 05:44 PM 09-08-2004
Philips recievers specs sounds great. But why say, Full digital and spec a D/A converter at 192Khz/24bit ?)
Is all digital inputs converted to analog and then fed to the amplifier
Cucuy's Avatar Cucuy 09:24 PM 09-08-2004
Please note that you will need a D/A converter at the last stage so that you can excite the speakers. On th audio section there is only a spec for D/A but not A/D so this could be the specs of the last stage. My two cents.
Earz's Avatar Earz 06:14 AM 09-09-2004
That Philps is by far the best looking digital receiver I have seen and the specs are sweet as well.
I also noticed it has a digital coaxial out for daisy chaining......very nice imo.
Earz's Avatar Earz 06:31 AM 09-09-2004
Looks like Yamaha has joined the future as well whith the RSXL100...

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod...fo/rsxl100.pdf
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