List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 08:28 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Daryl L
Mine did improve some after about 24 to 30 hours of use then a bit more after about 100 to 140 hours. To me it has the rich full sound my h/k avr8000 had but with additional clarity and details. I've got as of today 300 hours on it (averaging 10 hours a day since I got it on sept, 3rd). I really like it. My entertainment stand gets moved out about 1 or 2 times a week and using bare 16 guage wire mine has never come out. I bought dayton audio pins just incase but haven't used them yet.

Wow, 1000 posts. Geeeeez I got a big mouth.

Congrats on 1,000. I'm not too far behind.

I see, so the receiver continunally improves in sound. I haven't been able to monitor our Kenwood's progress b/c I only see it once or twice a month when I visit my folks. (LOL, I making it sound like I have cusodial rights to visit the receiver every couple weekends. )

We usually keep the volume around 40 or maybe the mid-30s, but rarely higher. When viewing DVDs or listening to CDs, it's a little lower (40 or mid-40s), but w/ normal broadcast (analog cable) TV, we set it in the 30s to 40. I can't wait until my parents subscribe to HDTV signal - but that probably won't be until 2006. : \\

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post #362 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 08:31 AM
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I normally listen between -47 and -44 but sometimes up to -37 (depends on the source).
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post #363 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 08:32 AM
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I bought a Yamaha HTR 5750 but returned it within 2 weeks. I hooked them up with Harman Kardon HKTS 14 (200 W Sub, 10-120 Sats). I read this thread (all 18 pages of it) and have decided to jump the digital amplifier band wagon. Went to Fry's and they have VRS-7100 open box for $280. The VRS-8100 is for the $MSRP. Panasonic XR-50 is also $MSRP.

I really like the network capability of VRS-8100 to stream music and video over ethernet (wired and wireless via bridge/Acess Point). Are there any marked differences between 7100 and 8100 ?

I've an old sherwood which I bought 2 yrs back (Bose 301s for front, Bic Venturi for center and rear). I'll use that for sometime till I decide between

a) Panasonic XR-70
b) Kenwood VRS-8100

Thank you guys for educating me :-) My wife sure "loves" me for spending more time in Fry's buying and returing stuff and then coming and reading AVS on the computer :-)

Thanks
Mudit
P.S.: Bought Panasonic DLP Pt-50DL54 recently _for her_, which started all this wave of buying new toys _for myself_ :-)
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post #364 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 10:35 AM
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Quote:


I really like the network capability of VRS-8100 to stream music and video over ethernet (wired and wireless via bridge/Acess Point). Are there any marked differences between 7100 and 8100?

Only difference I've read of is the 8100 is a 7100 with the added network abilities and a 4 line display.
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post #365 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 10:44 AM
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I dont think network capability is worth $400 ($300 street price for 7100 vs $700 for street price). For $400, you can get a nice multimedia digital PC which will do much more than what 8100 is promising, such as DVR etc. The digital PCs can send analog output to the receiver for music and video. I dont know if any of these digital amplifiers take digital inputs.

Now, I need to wait for XR70 and see if its worth buying.

Thanks
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post #366 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 10:59 AM
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I went to Fry's yesterday to pick up a DPR 2005 for the sale price (999.99). I have already tried the Panny XR50 and the Kenwood 7100, we'll see how the HK performs.

I also got to examine the 8100 a little and noticed a few other improvements over the 7100. Besides the networking and 4-line display (which would make it even harder to see from my couch), it also has regular sized banana plug terminals for the front speakers. Also, it has S-Video in/out jacks which I was surprised to see omitted on the 7100. As far as I know, the power ratings and the digital amp section themselves are unchanged. Whether these features are worth $400, it's hard to say. Not for me.

The HK already has a problem, the composite video pass through doesn't seem to be working. Not a major issue, but annoying none the less. I haven't been able to properly evaluate it, but I can already tell this thing has a LOT of power.
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post #367 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Daryl L
Only difference I've read of is the 8100 is a 7100 with the added network abilities and a 4 line display.

The N8100 also has gold-plated banana plug speaker connectors vs. the 7100's cheap and flimsy spring clips. I read that in some Kenwood digital receiver brochure that's somewhere on their Web site.

Edit: I didn't know Vishal just mentioned what I said above. He beat me to the punch.

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post #368 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 11:25 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by vishal
I went to Fry's yesterday to pick up a DPR 2005 for the sale price (999.99). I have already tried the Panny XR50 and the Kenwood 7100, we'll see how the HK performs.


Vishal, between XR50 and 7100 which one did you like better ? And did you return both of them because u wanted you try HKs ?

Thanks

Mudit
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post #369 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 11:32 AM
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I returned them both so I could try all of the offerings. I will definitely try the XR70 when it comes out as well.

Between the two, I felt like the XR50 had the edge in terms of clarity but the Kenwood had a slight edge in the bass department. The 7100 had very nice and punchy bass, it was pretty impressive. However, I give the nod the 50 overall, better sound, a better remote and worked well in my room.
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post #370 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 11:33 AM
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vishal, let me know how the HK sounds.
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post #371 of 1899 Old 10-02-2004, 09:43 PM
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vishal.... i have not heard the 50 but is probably fairly close to my XR45.

May i ask how long you had the 50 running for before demoing?

It does need some time to open up.... esp the bottom end.
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post #372 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 11:21 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Daryl L
Only difference I've read of is the 8100 is a 7100 with the added network abilities and a 4 line display.

Here it the 8100 press release..

Subject: Kenwood Launches Landmark Networked Audio/Video Receiver Using Sigma Designs' Media Processor

Kenwood Launches Landmark Networked Audio/Video Receiver Using Sigma Designs' Media Processor

MILPITAS, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 28, 2004--Kenwood USA Corp., a leading manufacturer of consumer electronics products, has launched a revolutionary networked audio/video receiver that incorporates Sigma Designs' (Nasdaq:SIGM) Media Processors. The Kenwood Fineline(TM) VRS-N8100 uses Sigma's EM8550 media processor chipset and is being introduced into the Japan, US, and EU markets, with first shipments of the US model scheduled for September.

One of the most powerful multi-function products to enter the market, the Kenwood Fineline(TM) VRS-N8100 offers all the features of a premium A/V receiver, as well as a digital media adapter that enables streaming media to become a new input option. Cutting-edge features that set the VRS-N8100 apart from similar products include:

-- The ability to directly accept streaming digital music, movies and photos from any networked PC to a stereo or television via the remote and TV user interface.

-- Kenwood's new "Supreme" audio playback system that restores high pitched audio tones (treble) that may have been eliminated due to MP3 and WMA compression, thus giving digital music its full range of sound back.

-- Media management is enabled through the use of an on-screen GUI interface along with a remote control to select sound, images and animation files on a PC.

-- Digital memory support based on an optional PC card adapter for compact flash, memory stick, smart media, and SD/MMC card support.

-- Popular digital media format support includes MPEG-1, MPEG-2, XviD, MP3, WMA, OGG, WAV, JPEG, BMP, GIF and PNG.

"Our VRS-N8100 is an advanced solution for the consumer that is looking for a way to conveniently select from the widest range of input sources, including networked streaming media," said John Hwang, R& D & Product Manager for Kenwood USA's Home Electronics Division. "Sigma's EM8550 provides us with scalability and seamless operation for our digital media network solution."

With the PC becoming the media center for home entertainment, consumers have more flexibility in storing and collecting a myriad of content. As a result, digital media adapter functionality allows consumers to remotely access all the digital music, photos and video stored on their PC through any TV in the home. Sigma media processors are designed to address this need, decoding major digital media formats and facilitating control of an embedded network device.

"The advancing trend of home networking and streaming audio/video continues with this latest network player from Kenwood," said Ken Lowe, vice president of strategic marketing, Sigma Designs. "With an endless choice of video, audio, photo, and other media, which consumers are collecting, opportunities to unite the entertainment library are quickly becoming a convenient necessity."

About the EM8550 Media Processor

The EM8550 provides a highly-integrated solution for MPEG-4, MPEG-2 and DVD decoding. Based on the company's award-winning REALmagic(R) Video Technology, it enables cost-effective solutions for consumer appliances, such as portable media players, low-cost video endpoints and progressive DVD players/recorders with PVR and networking.

About Sigma Designs, Inc.

Sigma Designs (Nasdaq:SIGM) specializes in silicon-based MPEG decoding for streaming video, progressive DVD playback, and advanced digital set-top boxes. The company's award-winning REALmagic(R) Video Streaming Technology is used in both commercial and consumer applications providing highly integrated solutions for high-quality decoding of MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. Headquartered in Milpitas, Calif., the company also has sales offices in China, Europe, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea and Taiwan. For more information, please visit the company's web site at www.sigmadesigns.com/.

REALmagic and Sigma Designs are registered trademarks of Sigma Designs. All other products and companies referred to herein are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies.

About Kenwood Corporation

In 1946, Kenwood started its business with the production of component for communications equipment. Today, its business domain has expanded to include wireless radio equipment and audio entertainment products. Recently Kenwood formulated a new corporate vision -- "Reaching out to discover, inspire and enhance the enjoyment of life". With this guideline, we are progressing towards our goal of becoming an Excellent Company of Global Prominence in the field of Mobile & Home Multimedia Systems business, utilizing our proprietary audio and communications technologies and products planning capability.

Company URL; http://www.kenwood.com/
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post #373 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 12:36 PM
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Ok.
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post #374 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 12:49 PM
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Personally speaking, $400 for networking and various media compatability may not be worth it. I'd rather buy a $400 HTPC which can do similar things along with a DVR.
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post #375 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 02:47 PM
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I noticed that ecost has the Kenwood VRS-N8100 for $449, is that a descent price?

It shows up for $699 til you add it to your cart.

flik55
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post #376 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Spoonfed
vishal.... i have not heard the 50 but is probably fairly close to my XR45.

May i ask how long you had the 50 running for before demoing?

It does need some time to open up.... esp the bottom end.

Spoon,

Knowing that the Panny's need some time to break-in, I ran it for about 50 hours before making any judgements. I really did love the sound but I felt the Kenwood had tighter bass. I am still leaning towards the Panny even over the HK. Although the HK has the power, my room isn't that large and my speakers are very efficient (92 db). The Panny has an unbeatable clean sound.
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post #377 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by flik55
I noticed that ecost has the Kenwood VRS-N8100 for $449, is that a descent price?

It shows up for $699 til you add it to your cart.

flik55

Seems like a very good deal. Fry's (a B&M store), has it for 799.99
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post #378 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 05:34 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by vishal
Although the HK has the power, my room isn't that large and my speakers are very efficient (92 db). The Panny has an unbeatable clean sound.QUOTE]

vishal, can you please give me a quick cheat sheet about the efficieny of the speakers ? My Harman Kardon HKTS 14 lists the

Sats: Sensitivity 86dB @ 1 watt/1 meter
Center: Sensitivity 86dB @ 1 watt/1 meter

Frequency Response (-6dB) 25Hz - 20kHz

Thanks

Mudit
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post #379 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 06:22 PM
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In my 4.2 x 3m room my Quad's 88db 6ohm the XR45 is ample.

86db is pretty low but.... may struggle a little.
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post #380 of 1899 Old 10-03-2004, 07:52 PM
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We have the SA-XR50 vs. VRS-7100 debates. Soon we'll be discussing SA-XR70 vs. VRS-N8100.

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post #381 of 1899 Old 10-04-2004, 09:48 AM
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Vishal et. al,
If somebody can live with the features of the XR50 and it can drive your speakers, I think one should go for the XR50. It is an absolutely stunning amplifier. The money saved should be invested in a good rack, power cord or power conditioners. If you people have the new fangled HDTV sets, you need a good power conditioner so it prolongs, the bulb/lcd/plasma life. I wanted to spend $1-$1.5K on an Integrated Amp (i am not that much into videophile,plain stereo kind of guy). I just wanted to try the XR50 to see what the hype is. I ended up keeping the XR50 and spent the rest of the money on a Balanced power conditioner which is connected to my Monster Power conditioner. I also spent some money on power cords for the XR50. This weekend I bought Vibrapod/Cones for isolating my DVD/CD player and found some nice improvement for the $70 invested in it.
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post #382 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 08:42 AM
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I am a bit confused.

I remember reading earlier in this thread that the Panny XR50 is NOT the upgrade from the XR45.

Is this the case?

I was just about to order the XR45 when it mysteriously dissappeared from all of the websites. Panasocics site still shows in on the main Home Audio page, but the link is dead.
I did notice that Panasonic added the XR70 to thier site and it says availability in Nov.

If anyone can help me clarify what the XR50 is. If it truly is an upgrade from the 45 then I will go out and buy one today. Otherwise I will likely wait for the XR70.

Thanks!

Planning phase for dedicated basement HT room...
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post #383 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 10:26 AM
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krynel,

There are mixed reports. Some reps from Panasonic insist that the XR50 is indeed the upgrade to the 45. Most people here will tell you that once you inspect the internals, the 50 looks more like an upgrade to the 25, and the 70 will be the likely sucessor the 45.

Not to say the 50 doesn't sound marvelous, but the 70 should sound even better. The one huge improvement the 50 has over the 45 is the quality of sound from even analog inputs. IMO, the 50 sounds pretty good with analog where the 25 and 45 were known to fall short in this area.
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post #384 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 10:28 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by SoftwireEngineer
Vishal et. al,
...

I completely agree. I have tried almost all of the digital receivers on the market, and I keep coming back to that magical Panny sound. Others may disagree, but for my room, my ears, and my speakers, it seems to be the best. I definitely will pick up the 70 once it's released.

On the topic of power cords, how much benefit will I really see with this upgrade? Would a simple IEC adapter and a new pc suffice, or would you need to actually swap the factory adapter out for a new one to see real improvements. I know there is a theory behind why this makes the sound improve, any easy way to explain it?
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post #385 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JohnTheDoe
vishal, can you please give me a quick cheat sheet about the efficieny of the speakers ?

Mudit, check this link for information about speaker sensitivity:
http://www.audiovideo101.com/diction...ctionaryid=394
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post #386 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vishal
Mudit, check this link for information about speaker sensitivity:
http://www.audiovideo101.com/diction...ctionaryid=394

Reading about the efficieny and the sensitivity of the speakers.
I think the loudness does matter for larger speakers so they should be
more efficient because they have to create more bass and thus loudness.

But for sub/sat systems, where anything below 100-150Hz is being set to self powered subwoofer, does the satellite speakers have to be 90dB+
to be considered efficient ?

Thanks

Mudit
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post #387 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 11:16 AM
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Vishal,
Just an IEC adapter and a computer power cord should provide some appreciable improvements. I suggest spending upto $100 is worth it. Especially, if you are into discerning very fine nuances of the sound. A good power cord, seems to bring some 'sharpness' to the sound and improves the soundstage. More 3D than 2D.
The theory behind power cords is 1) if they are shielded it prevents noise pick up 2) reducing the output impedence of the socket as seen by the power supply of the component. The power cord is not a cable with just DC resistance, it has inductance/capacitance which is what the aftermarket power cords try to reduce. Also, the connectors used are very high-grade avoiding any drop in voltages at these points. A component's power supply might draw a high current in surges, if there is even a small impedence on the power cord, it affects the supply and so the nuances of the music.
One of the things I expect out of the XR70 is the high-resolution volume control. I have efficient speaker and mostly playing at above 40db levels with my XR50. I think, it sounds better at low or below 30. But I cant be too sure about this. It sounds pretty good anyways. I also concur with you on the XR50 being good with analog inputs.
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post #388 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vishal
krynel,

There are mixed reports. Some reps from Panasonic insist that the XR50 is indeed the upgrade to the 45. Most people here will tell you that once you inspect the internals, the 50 looks more like an upgrade to the 25, and the 70 will be the likely sucessor the 45.

Not to say the 50 doesn't sound marvelous, but the 70 should sound even better. The one huge improvement the 50 has over the 45 is the quality of sound from even analog inputs. IMO, the 50 sounds pretty good with analog where the 25 and 45 were known to fall short in this area.

You might be interested that TI just announced their new digital amplifier parts to replace the ones used in the Panasonic XR series.. The new part is the TAS5518, which delivers increased 8 Ohm power output, significantly lower THD (<0.09%) and greatly improved Signal-to-Noise (>110dB). TI demonstrated this @ CEDIA 2004 in mid-September and its sonic performance was excellant. If Panasonic can implement this into the XR70 then they will have one fine sounding receiver with very significant performance improvements over the original XR series....
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post #389 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 03:04 PM
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"If Panasonic can implement this into the XR70 then they will have one fine sounding receiver with very significant performance improvements over the original XR series...."

Interesting......... then the "main stream" AVR manufacturers should be REALLY concerned
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post #390 of 1899 Old 10-05-2004, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by M Code
You might be interested that TI just announced their new digital amplifier parts to replace the ones used in the Panasonic XR series.. The new part is the TAS5518, which delivers increased 8 Ohm power output, significantly lower THD (<0.09%) and greatly improved Signal-to-Noise (>110dB). TI demonstrated this @ CEDIA 2004 in mid-September and its sonic performance was excellant. If Panasonic can implement this into the XR70 then they will have one fine sounding receiver with very significant performance improvements over the original XR series....

Hmm, "just announced" huh? I wonder if this is the reason the XR70 has been pushed back for so many months...
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