List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1899 Old 01-24-2005, 01:18 PM
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i've just started learning about digital receivers, & was just wondering, how come everybody's excited only about the xr50?

how does the xr50 compare with the yamaha rx-v450 or onkyo onkyo TX-LR552 (i understand has too high thd?), or other digital receivers around the same price? ok, i admit i did not read all 47 pages, but from skimming, seems so focused on the panasonics.
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post #902 of 1899 Old 01-24-2005, 01:29 PM
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The rx-v450 isn't a digitally amplified receiver. I'm not otherwise familar with it

The TX-LR552 is low powered and IMHO rather noisy (5% THD, audible in certain situations). It does have upconversion and is vastly easier to configure inputs. Oh, and I'm not aware of anyone getting it's OSD to work.

Regards,
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post #903 of 1899 Old 01-26-2005, 06:18 AM
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anybody here tried sharp's 1-bit line of receivers? any good compared to the other digi amps?
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post #904 of 1899 Old 01-27-2005, 12:36 AM
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I'm going to try one of these, if I get my bonus at work

Acoustic Reality

Direct order is possible for these puppies:

eAR® 202 with 2 x 200 Watt RMS to just
US$499 / EURO 399 / DKK 2999

eAR® 501 with 1 x 500 Watt RMS to just
US$699 / EURO 599 / DKK 3999

eAR® 1001 with 1 x 1000 Watt RMS to just
US$799 / EURO 699 / DKK 4999

Power specs are at 4 ohms, ICEpower modules, price in euro is taxes included. eAR 501 looks like the ICEpower spec on the samsung receiver.

Yves
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post #905 of 1899 Old 01-27-2005, 03:42 AM
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Hi All,

I am new to this forum. Recently I have purchased a set of Xr70 and would like to output the digital signal from the receiver to digital crossover then to Xr10 to speaker.
I have question on the signal type of the digital output. If the digital signal input is via coax, then the optical digital output for the following digital input:

1. connected to a DVD source for DTS movie
2. connected to a DVD-A source
3. connected to a SACD source

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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post #906 of 1899 Old 01-27-2005, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KYW
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. Recently I have purchased a set of Xr70 and would like to output the digital signal from the receiver to digital crossover then to Xr10 to speaker.
I have question on the signal type of the digital output. If the digital signal input is via coax, then the optical digital output for the following digital input:

1. connected to a DVD source for DTS movie
2. connected to a DVD-A source
3. connected to a SACD source

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

For #1 - you get DTS out

For #2 - I doubt you will get DVD-A out of the optical out (which came in via HDMI 1.1) . Why dont you try it out ?

For #3 - There is not optical input and output for SACD. SACD has to be input using the 2 or multi-channel RCA inputs.
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post #907 of 1899 Old 01-27-2005, 04:02 PM
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Last night I try to connect the digital out of the receiver with DVD movie via Coax, instead of getting the signal out from XR10, I heard 'noise' only, is that any setting I need to configure on the receiver side for this output?
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post #908 of 1899 Old 01-27-2005, 10:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gtp_02
Just wanted to post a followup after viewing a wider variety of HD programming through the receiver.

If the HD switching bandwidth is the only thing holding you back, reach for your wallet.

For the past week I've been watching HD cable through the receiver and it still looks amazing. Football games, The Tonight Show, Discovery HD programs, and various offerings on INHD. These are my primary reference materials which I've been watching for the better part of 2 years. I really don't notice a difference. I had a difficult time accepting that an AVR at this price point could handle it, but it does.

If anyone else agrees or disagrees please chime in!

I've seen an older Panasonic XR25 receiver that struggled with the peak HD bandwidth demand over component. For the most part it was fine, but if a scene changed completely and dramatically in content, the signal would be disrupted momentarily and give a little bit of a flicker and roll before syncing. Like I say only happened on 1080i content when that 1080i content was in heavy 'flux'. I've never seen it on an XR50 though.
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post #909 of 1899 Old 02-01-2005, 11:31 AM
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Newbie question here:

So I'm either going to get the XR10 or XR50 very soon to match up with my Athena AS-F2, C1, R1 setup.

I have an older Marantz CD player with analogue outputs only and a Norcent (it was a gift!) DVD player. After hearing about the poor analogue inputs on the Pannys, would I be better off upgrading my DVD player and using it for CD playback (with the digital outputs) instead of using the Marantz? I'm just trying to figure out what would work best here. Thanks!
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post #910 of 1899 Old 02-01-2005, 02:05 PM
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Just in case anyone is still looking, as it seems most places are out of stock.

www.shopsunshine.com is currently out of stock of both colors, even though they show that they have stock on their site.

I just placed my order with J&R, at the price that was mentioned earlier in this thread. They only had silver in stock, even though their site shows both colors as being out of stock.

Hope this helps.
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post #911 of 1899 Old 02-01-2005, 06:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Joeyphile
Newbie question here:

So I'm either going to get the XR10 or XR50 very soon to match up with my Athena AS-F2, C1, R1 setup.

I have an older Marantz CD player with analogue outputs only and a Norcent (it was a gift!) DVD player. After hearing about the poor analogue inputs on the Pannys, would I be better off upgrading my DVD player and using it for CD playback (with the digital outputs) instead of using the Marantz? I'm just trying to figure out what would work best here. Thanks!

1. Get the XR10 (or an XR45) in preference to an XR50 if you want best music SQ from the Athenas. The XR50 is (IMHO) better than most consumer analogue AVRs at a fraction of the price, but not a patch on the XR45 for digital SQ (and by all accounts the XR10 is as good as, or better than, the XR45).

2. You might find that 2-ch analogue into an XR10/XR45 from your Marantz CD player is still better than digital from the same CD played on a DVD player. Most DVD players do a pretty poor job with CD decoding for us picky buggers - but I've found NO difference between various DVD players ($100-$500 range) when using coax digital from CDs into the XR45. Definitely compare both options at home before making a final decision, because 2-ch analogue input to the Pannys is not too shabby.

Please let us know how you go.
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post #912 of 1899 Old 02-01-2005, 08:15 PM
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I'm listening to a pair of Athena B2s with my XR10 right now. Sounds great.

I was expecting really poor sounding analog inputs, but they are not that bad. The digital inputs are better, but the analog ones are not horrible.

You might want to download the manual for the XR10 if you are seriously thinking about buying one since it does not have many features. I bought one that was barely used for around $130 and it works great for my use but it does have its limitations. It only has 2 usable digital inputs (even though it has 3 you have to select optical or coax for tv & dvd). It only has composite video input/output. It only supports 5.1 and it's quite ugly.

It's the ugly silver thing in the middle of the attached picture.
LL
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post #913 of 1899 Old 02-02-2005, 09:35 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ijd
1. Get the XR10 (or an XR45) in preference to an XR50 if you want best music SQ from the Athenas.

That is what I have read elsewhere as well. I'll be using it for at least 50% music, so the XR10 seems like my best bet. I don't necessarily need the video capabilities of the XR50 either.

Quote:


Originally posted by jermy4
I'm listening to a pair of Athena B2s with my XR10 right now. Sounds great.

I was expecting really poor sounding analog inputs, but they are not that bad. The digital inputs are better, but the analog ones are not horrible.

Excellent - that's good to hear. I'm really looking forward to trying out one of these Pannys.
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post #914 of 1899 Old 02-02-2005, 03:58 PM
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Quote:


1. Get the XR10 (or an XR45) in preference to an XR50 if you want best music SQ from the Athenas. The XR50 is (IMHO) better than most consumer analogue AVRs at a fraction of the price, but not a patch on the XR45 for digital SQ (and by all accounts the XR10 is as good as, or better than, the XR45).


Has anybody compared a xr45 to the xr10? Before I bought my xr10, I did a lot of research, and based on internal components bought the xr10. I saved over $100 by buying the xr10, but I've always wanted to listen to the xr45.

There is many point-to-point interconnects on the xr10 for the digital in: 3 actually, one from the input board to the power board, from the power board to the dsp circuit, and from the dsp circuit to the amp board. Two of these point to point's are done via ribbon cable. The xr45 has a shorter length to travel before it gets to the amplifier, as the dsp board snaps into the amp board, not the power board, so I wonder if it would be any more detailed. If I had to guess, since the amp section in the xr10 is basically the ti eval board, that the xr10 has better parts but not optimally designed, while the xr45 has lesser quality parts but is more optimally designed. Thats just my take from seeing my xr10 inside and seeing pictures of the xr45, so if anyone has any more light on the subject please elaborate.
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post #915 of 1899 Old 02-06-2005, 07:15 PM
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Hello to all of you.

I have been visiting and reading your forums for at least 2 months.

Which I am grateful that I have, or would have fell into the HTSIB trap.

I am just now trying to buy my first good quality sounding HTS.

My family and I just bought our first wide screen... Panasonic 47in.
Now I am buying piece by piece a HTS...

What I have now...
Infinity Alpha Center
1 pair of Infinity Primus 150s for my fronts.

What I'm going to buy 3 Infinity Primus 140s from my surrounds, and a quality Sub. I have it narrowed down to 3....

Now for the kicker and my question.

I ordered a panny XR50 from ShopSunshine.com. That was a JOKE!!
They lied to me 3 times on the phone... Plus canceled my order without telling me the XR50 was on backorder.... Will never deal with them again.

So.... Now I am thinking of either the Panny XR70 or the Pioneer VSX-1014
For my receivers.

I would like a few opinions on which receiver would sound best with my infinity sound system....

I don't live near any place that sells electronics, so I have to go by word of mouth from you all....

And I have to order via the net.

I don't have a trained ear for this type of thing.... nor will i use any meters for speaker placement.

I just would like to have a nice system that my family and I and friends can watch DVDs and TV on the weekends... In my small living room... 15x18... Good Family Time.

I think I would like to go digital with the XR70 but I want the receiver that will best compliment the infinity speakers... Which might be hard to guess.

Any input would be appreciated.
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post #916 of 1899 Old 02-06-2005, 09:10 PM
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Kix,

The vsx-1014 would be easier to setup, as it automatically adjusts the speaker levels for you using the included microphone. You place it at the typical listening position level in your room (like your couch), and the reciever will adjust everything for you. Since you don't have a spl meter, this helps level out your speakers much more accuaretly than using your ear.

Power
Because of the room size, power from either of them should have enough headroom to listen at loud levels, so thats not really an issue. Sound quality wise, with the speakers you have it would be a tough time noticing major differences between the two recievers. The only difference you could notice would be comparing analog and digital inputs. The xr70 will most likely sound better than the 1014 with digital inputs, but the 1014 will sound better with analog inputs. How much better? Well, that depends on the speakers and the source. In your case, the difference is negligable. Both of these amps can bi-amp speakers, but not important in your case. Also, both of these recievers have a dual zone feature, in which you can listen to two different sources at the same time if you have speakers for front A and front B.

Features
Feature wise, the 1014tx has the advantage of having the mcaac (Multichannel Acoustic Calibration), while the xr70 has hdmi input. Keep in mind that the xr70 accepts hdmi video/audio (hdmi 1.1) , but it can only output hdmi video (hdmi 1.0). Both of them feature component switching, and enough other inputs/outputs to cover the rest of your home entertainment system. The 1014 has 7 inputs, with a possible of 2 optical inputs and 2 coax inputs and optical out. The xr70 has 5 inputs, with a possible of 2 optical inputs, 2 coax inputs, hdmi input, and hdmi video out and optical out. Both feature an OSD (on screen display) on your tv.

The 1014 does have analog pre-outs for 7.1 output, the xr70 does not; although not very useful for your setup. The 1014tx has binding post type terminals for all speaker channels, the xr70 has it only for the front left/right A/B. This type of connection is more secure than spring clip type, and can handle larger gauge speaker wire.

For speaker size settings, the 1014tx has the advantage. The xr70 can only have the following speaker crossover settings: 100hz, 150, and 200. While there is a rolloff after the 100hz, its still not enough for most bookshelf speakers. Add to this fact that a subwoofer becomes localized above 80hz or so, and you can see the disadvantage of the limited number of settings. The 1014tx features the lowest setting as 80hz, maybe lower, but the manual doesn't state otherwise. This setting would better transition bass freq. from the sub to the bookshelf speakers. Of course you could always turn the crossover off, but your bookshelf speakers may distort more because of the low freq. bass.

For remotes, I would say the 1014tx has a better one. I've never used either remote, but from reading both user manuals and seeing what they look like, I would say the 1014's remote is more useful. The biggest reason is that the 1014tx has a learning remote, meaning that if your listed tv codes do not work, you can have the 1014's remote "learn" the commands from your tvs included remote. The xr70's remote just uses codes, if your tv isn't on the list, then you can't use xr70's remote to control tv functions.


Overall
The xr70's strongpoints:
Digital input sound quality, hdmi input, size, weight, efficiency (hey, saves you something on electrical bill ) and maybe price.


The 1014tx's Strongpoints:
MCAAC, Learning Remote, Pre-outs, Binding post terminals for all speaker connections, 5 band equalizer, extended speaker Crossover settings.


In my mind the 1014tx is a much more complete home theater reciever than the xr70 and therefore would recommend the 1014tx over the xr70. HDMI will be a future standard, with revision 1.1 approved in may 2004. As far as I know, HDMI got approved for dvd-audio in 2004 as well. I would recommending the xr70 over the 1014tx if:

1.) You need/want hdmi input
2.) You're space constrained
3.) Most of your inputs are digital
4.) You listen to stereo recordings more than multichannel on digital inputs
5.) Hoping to add a dvd-audio player with hdmi out.

Hope this info helps, sorry about the long post
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post #917 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 05:01 AM
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Lyman4242:

Thank you for your very indepth post...
It brought alot of issues up, that I would never have thought of.

Thank You.
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post #918 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 05:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Lyman4242
I would recommending the xr70 over the 1014tx if:

1.) You need hdmi switching
2.) You're space constrained
3.) Most of your inputs are digital

I haven't used an analog input in years. What device (other than a vcr which has poor sound quality anyway) would one connect analoguely? Just curious.

Tony

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post #919 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 11:52 AM
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panasonic xr series receivers are very good with digi inputs, BUT...
you need matching speakers for them to shine. The speakers need to have a flat impedance curve. Otherwise it may sound constrained and bright. Just my 2 cents!
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post #920 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 12:55 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Lyman4242


Overall
The xr70's strongpoints: hdmi switching,

1.) You need hdmi switching


It in NO way offers any HDMI switching, with it having just 1 HDMI input!
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post #921 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 04:32 PM
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Abhi has put the strengths/weaknesses of the Panny succinctly.
The HDMI in the XR70 is mainly a passthru, but it helps in carry multi-channel DVD-A to the receiver in pure digital form. According to some, who have used the Panasonic S97 and XR70, this sounds wonderful.
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post #922 of 1899 Old 02-07-2005, 06:51 PM
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Johnla,

thanks for the correction, I posted late night.

Tonygeno,

I still use my tv's analog output, and watch tv more than I watch dvd's. Plus a lot of cable box's still don't feature digital out, at least thats the case up here with Charter Cable. Not to mention that many sacd and dvd audio players only feature 5.1 analog out, although this is changing. Ok, just for fun, but most laserdisc players only featured analog out, and we all know how many people still love their laserdisc.
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post #923 of 1899 Old 02-08-2005, 05:32 AM
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Lyman:

My experience with the Pannys analog inputs has been positive. I actually used one as an amp only driven by a Lexicon MC12! It drove all the speakers I threw at it with ease and these included some 86db efficient NHTs. The key to getting one to play loud, I believe, is to send the bass to the subs. That reduces the load on the Panny's amps.

I doubt the quality of the analog output from any tv will be compromised by the Panny, but I could be wrong. And SACD/DVD-A is so compromised with the analog connection (spotty distance settings and bass management) that it's hard (for me) to get too excited with these technologies, even though I own a ton of them (mainly multi-channel, classical SACDs).

Tony

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post #924 of 1899 Old 02-09-2005, 01:33 AM
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I just picked up the XR70...

I had the Onkyo SR502 and traded up as it seemed like this receiver was meant to match up with the Panasonic DVD-S97S I had.

I'm still pretty new to all this stuff so forgive what are likely simple questions:

1) The DVD player has a selectable output for either Bitstream or PCM - which do I choose and what's the difference? I believe it should be Bitstream, but I don't know why...

2) Both the player and the receiver have "re-mastering" options, purportedly adding frequencies lost in compression. Obviously you can't add anything that wasn't there to begin with, so is there really something happening here and is it worth using on low-quality audio sources? I hear a difference, I just can't tell yet if it's better.

3) Others in this thread have mentioned a "burn-in" process for digital amps - should I expect the performance to change (for the better) after an extended period of use (seems like I read about 100 hours minimum)? How exactly will it change and can I speed this process up by just playing something at low volume continuously for the first 100 hours?

Although I only had the Onkyo for a short while, in comparison I do see an improvement with the XR70, although that may be do to the higher power output (75W to 100W). It does seem like a "cleaner" sound - just sharper in quality. However, I feel I have to turn the volume up more than I did on the Onkyo, but it sounds like that may change with use. Actually, even as I write this I'd swear the volume just got louder...

Any other tips to get the best performance out of this system?

Thanks in advance,

avmem
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post #925 of 1899 Old 02-12-2005, 12:13 AM
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Anyone know if any of these digital amps have "automatic volume leveling" -- different companies call this something different (i.e. intelli volume), which makes it hard to search. I'd like to get a digital receiver/amp -- but I vowed not to get anything without automatic volume leveling.

It isn't just commercials that now crank the volume, you can just be watching a football game and all of a sudden they do a promo with increased volume. It's getting really annoying.
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post #926 of 1899 Old 02-12-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by z500zag
Anyone know if any of these digital amps have "automatic volume leveling" -- different companies call this something different (i.e. intelli volume), which makes it hard to search. I'd like to get a digital receiver/amp -- but I vowed not to get anything without automatic volume leveling.

It isn't just commercials that now crank the volume, you can just be watching a football game and all of a sudden they do a promo with increased volume. It's getting really annoying.

I've been trying to figure that out for a while, and so far, with no success.

My parents have the Kenwood VRS-7100 digi-amp'ed receiver and one of my father's annoyances is how he has to sometimes change the volume when he changes channels or a commercial comes on.

It's a shame that these receivers don't have that feature. It doesn't seem like an expensive design enhancement. Heck, even some relatively inexpensive TVs have this feature.

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post #927 of 1899 Old 02-16-2005, 08:46 AM
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Was a lurker on this forum for a long time...

I was wondering, while I understand the HDMI connection from DVD S-97 to XR70 will transmit DVD-Audio, will it also transmit CD-Audio or we still need a coax/fiber or RCA cable for that?

Anyone?

Thanks.
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post #928 of 1899 Old 02-16-2005, 02:52 PM
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Is the fact that the 1014tx has "on-board" decoders for more formats (Pro Logic II, DTS es discrete 6.1) an advantage over the xr70, or is having the sounds "supported" sufficient? I guess that's a different way of asking if there is an advantage having an on-board decoder instead of just having the sound "supported" by the receiver. Does it all depend on what the DVD player can do?
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post #929 of 1899 Old 02-16-2005, 03:55 PM
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The vast majority of today's receivers, including the Panasonics, can decode 5&6.1 DD/DTS.

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post #930 of 1899 Old 02-16-2005, 05:09 PM
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Just an FYI:

Kenwood VRS8100 is not just $199 at outpost.com

Don't know anything about this receiver but it's interesting to see that it sells this low now considering its MSRP is about $700 or so.
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