List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers - Page 63 - AVS Forum
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post #1861 of 1899 Old 03-21-2012, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

If true, it brings up an interesting question about the Marantz:where are they lying?

Video processing and all that AB amp in a small chassis with scant opportunity for heat-sinking and no visible fans is highly unlikely. (I assume there is a flat-mounted fan somewhere inside the unit, but still.) The heat has to go somewhere. So are they lying about power, or being slippery about the amplification? Though I suppose, could have simply made a box that's designed to melt itself shortly after the warranty ends.

Well it is only 5.1 and 50 watts per channel. Plenty of HTIB amps out there with those specs - granted the Marantz is better. The Sherwood Netboxx is 100w per channel, 7.1, and 4 lbs lighter.

Honestly the size of Pioneers and Onkyos is over done for stupid American egos (opinion here :-) )

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post #1862 of 1899 Old 03-21-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Well it is only 5.1 and 50 watts per channel. Plenty of HTIB amps out there with those specs

Almost all Class D. And just because an HITB say "50W" doesn't mean that it can continuously put that out for any length of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

The Sherwood Netboxx is 100w per channel, 7.1, and 4 lbs lighter.

Doesn't that use the Ti PurePath chips that Panasonic used to use?

Video processing and AB amps in that sized chassis without serious fans just isn't going to happen. Not over any reasonable product lifespan, at least. So logically Marantz is either structuring their propaganda to hide the fact that they're using Class D amps, they're lying about the output, or the product is designed to quickly self-destruct from heat.

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post #1863 of 1899 Old 03-21-2012, 09:52 PM
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R-904N uses TI Oasis

I beleive this chip:
http://www.ti.com/product/tas5630

Looks to be part of the PurePath line.
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post #1864 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 02:46 AM
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The Marantz 16xx and 14xx put out about 30 wpc x 5 in real life tests and approach 50w only in 2-channel. Nothing crazy in the output there and the package is bigger than my old Rotel RA-932, which was a 50 wpc x2 performer. Also about same size as the Cambridge Audio 540R receiver, which real life tests at 80 wpc x 5.

If Marantz was using class D amps they could easily best the Cambrigde figures.

Remember as well that Marantz/Denon have been cutting down on heat sinking and using aggressive auto-protect settings.

So I see no reason to doubt these are A/B products as the manuf claims. I don't think those models have a role in this thread unless there is concrete evidence to the contrary.
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post #1865 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 06:57 AM
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Just posted on Pioneer's Facebook page asking them to bring the VSX-S300 and S500 to the US. If you agree please reply/like...

http://www.facebook.com/PioneerNorthAmerica

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post #1866 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 08:52 AM
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Do you thinkt hat it is possibly made by Inkel and that under the covers much of the the Pioneer is the same as the Sherwood R-904N minus the internet portion?
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post #1867 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slinkeey View Post

Do you thinkt hat it is possibly made by Inkel and that under the covers much of the the Pioneer is the same as the Sherwood R-904N minus the internet portion?

I was carefully examining the pictures of it - it is hard to say - but it certainly has some nice features missing from the the Sherwood (bi-amp, video conversion, on screen setup).

Don't get me wrong - the Sherwood is a steal for the current Amazon price - but it would be nice to have more choices!

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post #1868 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I was carefully examining the pictures of it - it is hard to say - but it certainly has some nice features missing from the the Sherwood (bi-amp, video conversion, on screen setup).

Don't get me wrong - the Sherwood is a steal for the current Amazon price - but it would be nice to have more choices!

xnappo

It's a steal if you are willing to deal with it's issues..

I am currently living with the issues.. I want to get my moneys worth out of it since it was in and out of the shop so many times getting fixed.
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post #1869 of 1899 Old 03-22-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slinkeey View Post

It's a steal if you are willing to deal with it's issues..

I am currently living with the issues.. I want to get my moneys worth out of it since it was in and out of the shop so many times getting fixed.

Yeah I read about your issues - another reason why it would be nice to have options!

I luckily have not had any problems - but I don't use the 'network' aspect of it at all.

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post #1870 of 1899 Old 03-27-2012, 02:08 PM
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Is B&O's ICE amp still around?
I know Wisdom Audio use them...not sure still does or not.

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post #1871 of 1899 Old 05-31-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwong View Post

Is B&O's ICE amp still around?
I know Wisdom Audio use them...not sure still does or not.

Yes, lot's of people still using them - Rotel in receivers and D-Sonic/Wyred4Sound in dedicated amps. Pioneer has developed their on "Class-D3" amplification in their latest receivers. Speaking of which, see my next post...
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post #1872 of 1899 Old 05-31-2012, 07:06 PM
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In case anyone missed it, Pioneer is expanding Class-D3 into their standard (non-Elite) line of receivers. There are also new Elite SC-6x for 2012. It seems that the non-Elite models are not yet official, but you can find some info if you Google a bit. The most basic model, the SC-1222 doesn't have a price yet, but I bet the street price will be right around or just under $1000. So not exactly the bargain the Panasonic SA-XR series was. I'm sure the technology will continue to trickle down further each year.

Unfortunately, none of these are slim or particularly light receivers like the Panasonic SA-XR series or the Pioneer VSX-S300 and S500. This is one of the advantages of Class-D in many people's minds.

These are likely all analog-input Class-D amps, not that it really matters, but some may not consider them "fully digital."

See this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1392589

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enitime View Post

-- Class D --

SC-1222 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 7.2
SC-1227 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 7.2
SC-1522 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED
SC-2022 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 7.2 - €999 - Not for the US market.

SC-LX56 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 7.2 - €1499 - Not for the US market.
SC-LX76 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 9.2 - Not for the US market.
SC-LX86 - NOT YET ANNOUNCED - 9.2 - Not for the US market.

Elite SC-61 - 7.2 - $1100
Elite SC-63 - 7.2 - $1300
Elite SC-65 - 9.2 - $1600
Elite SC-67 - 9.2 - $2000
Elite SC-68 - 9.2 - $2500

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post #1873 of 1899 Old 05-31-2012, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drawz View Post

These are likely all analog-input Class-D amps, not that it really matters, but some may not consider them "fully digital."

The vast majority of class D amps are analog input.

It's an unfortunate coincidence that class D signifies switching amps, causing many to mistakenly conclude "D" is for "digital".

Noah
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post #1874 of 1899 Old 06-06-2012, 01:49 PM
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Nice, now I do need a slim receiver, only need 5.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drawz View Post

In case anyone missed it, Pioneer is expanding Class-D3 into their standard (non-Elite) line of receivers. There are also new Elite SC-6x for 2012. It seems that the non-Elite models are not yet official, but you can find some info if you Google a bit. The most basic model, the SC-1222 doesn't have a price yet, but I bet the street price will be right around or just under $1000. So not exactly the bargain the Panasonic SA-XR series was. I'm sure the technology will continue to trickle down further each year.


Unfortunately, none of these are slim or particularly light receivers like the Panasonic SA-XR series or the Pioneer VSX-S300 and S500. This is one of the advantages of Class-D in many people's minds.


These are likely all analog-input Class-D amps, not that it really matters, but some may not consider them "fully digital."


See this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1392589

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post #1875 of 1899 Old 06-09-2012, 12:21 PM
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Is it just me or is there a reason why you don't see much in the way of Harman Kardon HT amps mentioned in this forum???

It seems to be mainly Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, Dennon that you hear about - is Harman Kardon crappy in comparison?

The reason why I ask is that H&K are really pushed hard here in NZ.....

Any thoughts?
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post #1876 of 1899 Old 07-31-2012, 02:48 PM
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Actually audition the Peachtree Grand Int a while ago, its sounds great, but at the time didn't' know detail about the amp section.
Found out later that Peachtree using ICE in their new amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drawz View Post


Yes, lot's of people still using them - Rotel in receivers and D-Sonic/Wyred4Sound in dedicated amps. Pioneer has developed their on "Class-D3" amplification in their latest receivers. Speaking of which, see my next post...

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Jumping from ring to outer ring;
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post #1877 of 1899 Old 08-07-2012, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

The Marantz 16xx and 14xx put out about 30 wpc x 5 in real life tests and approach 50w only in 2-channel. Nothing crazy in the output there and the package is bigger than my old Rotel RA-932, which was a 50 wpc x2 performer. Also about same size as the Cambridge Audio 540R receiver, which real life tests at 80 wpc x 5.

If Marantz was using class D amps they could easily best the Cambrigde figures.

Remember as well that Marantz/Denon have been cutting down on heat sinking and using aggressive auto-protect settings.

So I see no reason to doubt these are A/B products as the manuf claims. I don't think those models have a role in this thread unless there is concrete evidence to the contrary.

Sadly I have had to give up on class-D for my main viewing area as my Sherwood developed a power-on issue and any class-D is now out of my price range(still have a Panasonic XR55 going with my second viewing area though!).

I actually ended up going with a really good deal on a Marantz 1402. I can definitely confirm it is NOT class-D - however it is a very nice receiver, and after years of putting up with lesser usability functions (OSD/function renaming etc) in the name of class-D I must say I do not regret my purchase.

I hope the next time I need an new receiver, I will be able to get class-D for ~$400 again...

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post #1878 of 1899 Old 11-10-2012, 06:31 PM
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Now I am a novice but I do not follow the need for all 7 channels to be amplifier supported? I am working my way towards finally setting up a system that is proper from start to finish and I am now at amplifiers as the two "Front"" speakers that I am using (mainly due to preference on stereo listening of music only) are Series 7 Bose 901's which I understand are poor performers in my 5.1 home theater set-up am putting together. Other speakers used are a Definitive Tefchnologies center channel that I find amazing and also have four Boston Acoustics Home Theater cubes. If I was to amplify each of the 5 channels would this be considered an improvement or just a waste fo additional amplifiers? My basic receiver puts out 120W at 8ohm (part of the problem caused by Bose being 4 Ohm and needing tons of power so please forgive if question is not phrased properly. Am stuck trying to decide if I am better off with my home theater being completely separate from music listening set-up or is there a way to make this work without too much monkeying around constantly with settings on receiver which would make it very bad for me., Can i run both setups from the one Onkyo TX-NR609?

I will be interested in reading any added responses to this persons correspondence but I have not invested the time necessary to figure out how to "find" my or the original thread (?) if thart is correct terminology. A beginners package of info for sites like these would be greatif anyone has advise to offer that is actually helpful and not a tiracde about how intelligent you are versus the rest of the known universe! smile.gif

Appreciated, Scott
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post #1879 of 1899 Old 01-09-2013, 10:01 AM
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Can someone point me to a list of Class "D" receivers with 7.1 and 200wpc and 4ohm output?

Second question: do the digital amps in these receivers sound as good as Class A/B amps?

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with this tech....

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post #1880 of 1899 Old 01-09-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Can someone point me to a list of Class "D" receivers with 7.1 and 200wpc and 4ohm output?
Second question: do the digital amps in these receivers sound as good as Class A/B amps?
Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with this tech....

200wpc? There is nothing out there that I know of.

There are hardly any at all for that matter - the Sherwood Netboxx (old and outdated) and Pioneer S series (freaking expensive) are the only I know about.

I went from having a Panasonic XR55 to Sherwood Netboxx (both classD) to a Marantz 1402 and definitely think classD sounds better.

Unfortunately there are too many people out there judging amps by size and weight, so the productization of the technology seems to be stalled.

xnappo

[EDIT] Actually - looks like the Pioneer VSX-60 may be class-d. Fairly reasonable price...
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post #1881 of 1899 Old 01-09-2013, 12:35 PM
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Thanx for the info.smile.gif

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post #1882 of 1899 Old 01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
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Haven't been on AVSForum in a while--I thought I'd pose my audio question here.

Would it be possible to power Outlaw's 975 pre/pro using a Netboxx or a Panny xr55/70/700 as a digital amp? I'm thinking of using digital outputs from the 975 to the Panny or Netboxx to avoid analog to digital conversion.

Will this work? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1883 of 1899 Old 01-22-2013, 01:49 PM
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Answering my own question--since it looks like the only outputs on the 975 are analog, there seems to be no way to avoid analog to digital conversion. Oh well.
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post #1884 of 1899 Old 02-23-2013, 07:17 AM
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dear moderator this is a old sticky from 2004 and is seriously out of date and needs to be retired
and a update one started.

my
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post #1885 of 1899 Old 03-17-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaamon View Post

dear moderator this is a old sticky from 2004 and is seriously out of date and needs to be retired
and a update one started.

I agree with you. Just wanted to emphasize the usefulness of creating an updated thread, rather than simply retiring this one.
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post #1886 of 1899 Old 06-15-2013, 05:13 PM
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Not class-d, but some recent Harman Kardon receivers feature "digital" power supplies, which are really switch mode power supplies (SMPS). The amps are still class AB, but you get many of the benefits of class-D in terms of efficiency, weight reduction, and heat reduction. In fact, it's possible these are more efficient overall than some class-D amps that have traditional power supplies, but this is pure speculation. Here are the model numbers that I know of:

AVR 1510
AVR 1610
AVR 1710
AVR 1700
AVR 2700
AVR 3700

There may be others. Threads for these receivers already exist on AVS.
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post #1887 of 1899 Old 07-09-2013, 04:56 PM
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I have an panasonic xr70 and would like to replace that with something that has more HDMI inputs with 1080p support. I am generally happy with the xr70 receiver. I particularly like the fact that these are lighter, less power consuming and looks small in size. Any suggestions?

It almost feels like no one has apetite for class D receivers.
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post #1888 of 1899 Old 07-09-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjath View Post

...

It almost feels like no one has apetite for class D receivers.

Oh, I do..., I do!

Unfortunately, it's tough to market Class D to guys who buy by the pound. If there is no marketing edge (actually, lighter weight is a marketing disadvantage) and AB's sell well enough, why rock the boat in HT, when a bit of tweaking of last-year's model will get you more sales.

I switched boxes because of Room-EQ and while I am really happy with the Room EQ part, I wish it didn't come with the 54lbs heater I have on my shelf.

I feel your pain and I wish there will be a change soon.
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post #1889 of 1899 Old 07-14-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjath View Post

I have an panasonic xr70 and would like to replace that with something that has more HDMI inputs with 1080p support. I am generally happy with the xr70 receiver. I particularly like the fact that these are lighter, less power consuming and looks small in size. Any suggestions?

It almost feels like no one has apetite for class D receivers.
Not much out there right now unfortunately. I'd love a modern class-d receiver with SMPS and fairly basic features.

Harmon Kardon has the AVR 2700/1700/1710/1610/1510 which all have switch mode power supplies (SMPS), which help reduce some of the heat and weight associated with most receivers, although they are still class AB amps. They are also slimmer than a typical AV receiver.

The Marantz NR series are also slimline and run relatively cool, but again not class D and no SMPS either.

The Pioneer SC series include class D amps, but traditional power supplies, and therefore are still heavy and tend to run warm. They're also full size receivers if size is a consideration.

Would love to see some Kill-a-watt measurements of idle power consumption on these receivers as this would give an idea of how much energy is turned into heat.
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post #1890 of 1899 Old 07-18-2013, 04:39 AM
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Hi all. Looking for comparison feedback on Yamaha 1030RX, Denon AVR x4000 and Onkyo NR 818/929. Each of these has sufficient features for my 2 zone home theater setup, but I am interested in thoughts on build quality, YPAO vs Audussey XT32, customer service. My Marantz just failed and I need to replace. Thanks for the feedback.
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