List of Digital (Class-D) Home Theater Receivers - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1899 Old 08-14-2004, 06:16 PM
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And not to forget, Daniel from AVS did a great job with my benq and silverstar purchase
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post #182 of 1899 Old 08-14-2004, 08:49 PM
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Hi Alan,

DO NOT use the receiver to change the settings--it's MUCH easier to use the on-screen display on the Sonys. I'm not positive on the 9000 but MOST Sonys have a setting called "expanded menu"--you have to enable that feature then you can change all the advanced settings--again use the on-screen to change settings--hope this helps
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post #183 of 1899 Old 08-15-2004, 04:33 PM
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I did a 2 channel cd analog and digital connection comparison of the three posted at www.audiocircle.com in the digital section.
I also compared 2 channel sa-cd on the Kenwood 7100 and the JVC rx-10.
I also had two blinfolded volunteers who concurred whith most of my picks.

As far as H/T use, they finished in this order.

Pany 45
Kenwood 7100
JVC RX-10

Tommorow I will give more details on the H/T mini shootout, but I have relatives visiting and do not have the time right now.
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post #184 of 1899 Old 08-15-2004, 08:41 PM
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I just went to my parents' house for the weekend and watched another DVD on their HTS (featuring the Kenwood VRS-7100 receiver) and a few more hours of TV shows (Olympics, Yankees game, etc.). The receiver sounds great.

I have noticed one quirk about the receiver, though, in which when I want to use DPLIIx (their HTS has 6.1 speakers), sometimes I can only use "DPLIIx Music" while watching a Dolby Digital-encoded DVD and not "DPLIIx Movie". I'm not sure what the difference between Music and Movie (and Game) modes are for DPLIIx (I figure the loudness levels are somehow manipulated to the 6 speakers), but I'm just puzzled why I can't use "DPLIIx Movie" while watching a DVD, but it shows up when watching analog cable TV.

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post #185 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 06:13 AM
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If the DVD is encoded with Dolby Digital why don't you just use Dolby Digital instead of PLII?

Whatever the reason that is an odd bug in the 7100.

Kevin
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post #186 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 07:51 AM
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Has any heard or heard of LG's LH-W5100 digital receiver. According to facia & specs it is full digital amp. No real info on-line (Ican't post any URLs as this is my first post to AVS site). Spec says 5*50W + 100W sub, wireless rear speakers.

Not much on-line info about amp. I know LG licensed TI's Equibit technology but don't know if that's the chip used (shop won't let me bring in screwdriver!)

I'm interested in it for 2 channel mode so low power may not be that much of a problem. I intend to feed amp from PC where digital crossover(BruteFir) and Room correction will be done (DRC)

Any replies welcome

John
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post #187 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 08:13 AM
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"100W sub" - this means that it probably has no subwoofer output - just a powered sub output. For most of us that is a deal-killer unless you are willing to run your speaker cables into your sub's high-level inputs.

Kevin
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post #188 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 08:32 AM
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Kevin,
I don't understand - it has a s/woofer which is 100W - I still can't post url as I'm not up to 3 posts to AVS

John
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post #189 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 08:33 AM
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ignore this - just to get me to 3 posts
John
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post #190 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 08:34 AM
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One LG LH-W5100 Url http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_20090.html

John
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post #191 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 09:19 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kendrid
If the DVD is encoded with Dolby Digital why don't you just use Dolby Digital instead of PLII?

Whatever the reason that is an odd bug in the 7100.

I should clarify that I used "Doly Digital EX" and "DPLIIx Music" (you can have both enabled at the same time).

It seemed weird why DPLIIx doesn't always let you select between "Music", "Movie", and "Game". Daryl (I think) from the Kenwood VRS-7100 thread mentioned that the manual explains the reason on p. 40. I

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post #192 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 09:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jkeny4
Kevin,
I don't understand - it has a s/woofer which is 100W - I still can't post url as I'm not up to 3 posts to AVS

John

They mean that it's internal amplifier has a 100W output for a subwoofer. Most of us have subwoofers that are already powered so we don't need that.

From my experience when a HTIB says that means it usually does not have a preout subwoofer connection (RCA connection). You could run the powered output into your subwoofer's high level input but for many that isn't preferred. It isn't a big deal but the unit is probably very basic.

Kevin
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post #193 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 10:27 AM
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Ok, here are the results from the mini shootout for H/T sonics from three digital, and in some cases analog wonders.
This was kept real short as we had already been through a few hours of 2 channel comparisons that you can read about over at www.audiocircle.com digital section.

The three wonders are
Kenwood 7100
Jvc RX-10
Panasonic sa-xr 45

The other two people in this shootout, my wife and 26 year old nephew were not blindfolded for the H/T comparison for obvious reasons.

All receivers used the same VH pulsar 1.5 m digital coaxial connection and same speaker wire.
All channel levels were adjusted whith a Rat Shack meter.
All receivers were used whith stock pc and the same modified Powervar power conditioner.

The two dvd's used were Matrix Revolutions were the Coat check scene was used for DD, and Kill Bill vol 1 in the Uma vs Vivica Fox scene for DTS.

I made the two reveiwers leave the room for wire swapping, and they could not see which receiver was playing when they were judging sonics for each receiver in H/T mode.

On both DD and DTS, the Panny 45 was considered the most real sounding, whether it was Uma's stolen truck motor, pulling up for the showdown, breaking glass in the living room fight scene, or the gun shot in the kitchen.
This more detailed sound made the scene more enjoyable to both reveiwers.

Same goes for the coat check scene were guns being re-loaded,gun shots ect all had a more vivid detail to them when using the 45 over the other two.
The two reveiwers both picked the Pany for H/T, over the Kenwood and JVC.
When it came to second place, the decision was much harder as the JVC had the edge in bass output in the middle range, and the Kenwood was voted by both as being more detailed in the highs by both reveiwers.

When forced to choose, the reveiwers both picked #2 which was the Kenwood 7100.

This mini shootout is for H/T only, used in my set up and room, and your resluts whith your speakers and room may very well be different.

Overall, if you need one of these receivers to do analog and digital sources, I would choose either the JVC RX-10 or Kenwood 7100 as the 45 does not do analog well at all.

If you want the Pany sonics for both analog and digital, you should either listen to an xr50 model which is said to be improved over the 45 and 25, or wait for the 70.

Although we all considered the 45 the digital winner, whether 2 channel or H/T, it is out of the running as compared to the Kenwood 7100 or slightly better yet JVC RX-10 when using analog sources.

After the shootout, my nephew commented that he thought KB 1 was crap, and turned it off while watching it on a tube tv whith no surround after moving, and not yet unpacking his gear
Watching it on a screen of over 100" whith a 6.1 digital wonder has seemed to change his mind.

Since I had already made up my mind to go whith the 45 for H/T sonics, I scored another unit to use in a 6.1 bi amped set up whith dual powered subs.
We hooked up only the front three channels in bi amped mode as I was short some cabling.
We matched all levels and used the 45 that ran the tweeters in the small setting and used one remote to control volume ect.
We were shocked at the difference in sonics and dynamic range.
If using one 45 in bi amped mode for 2 channel is an improvement, using two 45's in a bi amped multi channel DD/DTS setup is a quantum leap in sonic impact, and a much bigger difference than swapping the digital wonders in and out of the chain.

Today I am going to get some more cabling and bi amp all 6 channels whith one sub from each 45.

Although I found the 45 more transparent and revealing than my 8k Parasound halo c2/Legacy (Coda) 250 x 5 amp combo, I did miss the headroom and overall slam of that set up.

Well the slam is back, and there is NOTHING I miss about that set up now, except for its awesome sounding non digitised analog ins.
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post #194 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 10:51 AM
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Thanks for the time and effort to do this comparison. Much appreciated.
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post #195 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 12:05 PM
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Earz, can you elaborate on how you are bi-amping this setup (digital out to digital in, or analog cables,etc.)?

Thanks,
Nick
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post #196 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 02:52 PM
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Panny's 45 seems to be great .... What about the 50 ... Is there something wrong with this Model , cause nobody seems to talk about it alot, and it seems "more" available (and cheaper) than the 45... I am looking at the Yamaha 5750 or one of these new digital recievers . It's for a bedroom so volume wont be a factor. ... Any opinions are helpful...thanks

Nascar Sucks
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post #197 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 03:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by NickB
Earz, can you elaborate on how you are bi-amping this setup (digital out to digital in, or analog cables,etc.)?

Thanks,
Nick

Most digital sources offer more than one digital out, simply hook one up to one Pany, and the other up to the other Panys digital input, calibrate each one at a time and match all levels.
Then you use one remote to control both receivers.

One is used on your highs, and one is wired to your main speakers lows.
You can also hook up a second powered sub to the second receiver if desired.

Bi-amped Panys + 2 powered subs = transparency + slam =

I just got back from buying enough cabling to bi amp all 6 channels.
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post #198 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I love the SA-XR50,..it sounds better every day. I didn't compare it to any of the other digital receivers, but I compared it to the Harman Kardon AVR125 and it sounds much clearer.
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post #199 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 03:12 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by SnacktimeStL
Panny's 45 seems to be great .... What about the 50 ... Is there something wrong with this Model , cause nobody seems to talk about it alot, and it seems "more" available (and cheaper) than the 45... I am looking at the Yamaha 5750 or one of these new digital recievers . It's for a bedroom so volume wont be a factor. ... Any opinions are helpful...thanks

From what I have read, the 50 is the 25's replacement, and the 70 is supposedly the 45's replacement.

I have never heard a 50, but have read that its analog ins are superior to the 25's and 45's.....which imo are not that great.
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post #200 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 03:24 PM
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Im a little confused by this bi-amp situation as well. I relize most sources have 2 digital outs, but they tend to be 1 optical and 1 digital coax. So is this what you are doing from lets say your HDTV box or DVD player. Or as I have seen some reciever offer, digital out. Then from this digital out, go to another Panny optical in??

Also does the Panny 45-50 or 70 offer digital out?? I would be intrested in knowing this, as I would not be doing this right away, but in the future this would be helpful.

EDIT: Just visted Panasonic.com and noticed that the SAXR50 does have digital out, so in essence you can connect your DVD digital out to one reciever, then go from digital out to the next Panasonic. If anyone was intrested.
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post #201 of 1899 Old 08-16-2004, 11:43 PM
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Wait a minute! Can't HDMI be daisy-chained? So if you pass the audio through HDMI, couldn't you just pass it from the first XR70 input to the second XR70 via the HDMI output on the first to the input on the second?

That seems like a great way to bi-amp if that would work...

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post #202 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 06:38 AM
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I dont know if the Panny XR70 has HDMI out, i know for sure it will have one in. But you can do the same right now with with the optical out. DVD -> Panny 50-70 ->optical out -> Panny 50-70. Then like the other user said you adjust each one septeradly, and when finished just use one remote to control both recievers. I also think this would help people with 4 ohm, low senstivity speakers as well, as you can have 2 reciever driving each one of the 6 speakers.
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post #203 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 07:52 AM
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The 45, and I beleive the 25 also have optical out, and I was thinking sources such as an xbox hi def pack or a dbs receiver whith only one optical out could be daisy chained.
I have not tried this yet as I only have one cheapo non glass optical cable.

I bi amped all 6 speakers last night and watched The Transporter in DD.

The results were cleaner even more precise and distinct sounding highs, and faster and deeper midbass all around.

Everything became more effortless sounding and this made the movie watching experience that much sweeter.
We all know that double the watts does not = double the db, but I would say that overall sound quality has to be at least 50% better than when using just one 45 for H/T use.

I don't see why this would not work whith the 25 and 50 models also, and highly reccomend it.
The JVC also has an optical out, but the Kenwood does not, so it would be relegated to dual out sources only.
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post #204 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 10:03 AM
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Earz

Thanks for taking the time to perform the comparison between the Digitals and sharing your impressions.
Its appreciated by many
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post #205 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 11:51 AM
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Is the JVC RX-F10 an all "digital" receiver like the Harmon Kardon DPR-1001?

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3978103

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3698952

If so how do you think it compares to the HK?

I have a JVC HD-ILA tv and would "like" to get more JVC components, but as long as the quality is good.

Thanks!!!
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post #206 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 02:25 PM
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The JVC F10 is a 'hybrid' digital amp. JVC doesn't really explain what that means.

I am currently demoing one and I can say that it is a nice receiver. I'll post more after I spend more time with it but it is worth checking out. I purchased mine from J&R. They have a no restocking fee return policy so if you don't like it you can send it back.

Kevin
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post #207 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 04:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by julkruk
Is the JVC RX-F10 an all "digital" receiver like the Harmon Kardon DPR-1001?

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3978103

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3698952

If so how do you think it compares to the HK?

I have a JVC HD-ILA tv and would "like" to get more JVC components, but as long as the quality is good.

Thanks!!!

The only true digital direct to the binding post receivers are the Panys, and that includes the HK's which are also hybrids.
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post #208 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 04:55 PM
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Earz,

When you calibrated your Kenwood did you use the internal or an external sources test signals? If external what did you set the main volume control on to calibrate?
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post #209 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 05:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Daryl L
Earz,

When you calibrated your Kenwood did you use the internal or an external sources test signals? If external what did you set the main volume control on to calibrate?

Hi Daryl,

i used the internal test signals from all receivers and a Rat Shack meter to adjust all levels for 2 and multi channel.

The Panys front two channels are fixed, so I adjusted everything off of there fixed meter level to match all receivers.
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post #210 of 1899 Old 08-17-2004, 07:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kendrid
The JVC F10 is a 'hybrid' digital amp. JVC doesn't really explain what that means.

I am currently demoing one and I can say that it is a nice receiver. I'll post more after I spend more time with it but it is worth checking out. I purchased mine from J&R. They have a no restocking fee return policy so if you don't like it you can send it back.

Below is some info I dug up from JVC. By hybrid they mean it uses digital amplification (PWM) with both digital and analog feedback loops

http://www.jvc-australia.com/!Produc...res/hybrid.asp

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