New amp is making me grin from ear to ear =) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4975 Old 07-22-2004, 06:54 PM
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I'll throw a bone or two out.
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post #542 of 4975 Old 07-22-2004, 06:57 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Terrax
Awesome, Merry Christmas. hehe I know you have got to be excited. Grats man.

Thanks guys, but I am still needing a medium by which sound reaches the ears - aka speakers! SVS shipped the sub today and I will call Axiom tomorrow to check on the status.

All I need then is the Samsung 941 to get here so I can listen to some SACD and DVD-A discs I have sitting there waiting to be set free. Patience is a virtue, but I am not feeling very virtuous right now
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post #543 of 4975 Old 07-22-2004, 08:45 PM
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Well all my new fans are in, I went with the Enermax thermal control fans. The white wires coming from the fans are the thermal probes. It all went perfectly, minus I thought they might be a little more quiet than they are, but it's still at least 10-15dB from where the stock fans were. And if the heatsinks get hot, the fans should speed up which is cool.
LL
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post #544 of 4975 Old 07-22-2004, 08:58 PM
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Oh and a couple of observations between the 202 and 402. The 202 has 4 output devices per channel, the 402 has 6. The 202 has one 4700uF capacitor per channel and the 402 has two per channel. And as you can see from the pictures, the 202's transformer is a bit smaller than the 402's.
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post #545 of 4975 Old 07-22-2004, 10:58 PM
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Ok here goes,

After getting everything hooked up, and powering it all on, I started by listening to some hardcore bass tracks, the kind you feel more than hear. I have a couple of CD's that are bass tracks used in car audio comp's. Now bare in mind, I have the RTi 150's, and if you not aware of their specs, here is just a little run down:

Driver Complement
Subwoofer 3 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm)
Long-throw Polymer cone woofers - shielded
Midrange 1 - 6-1/2" Diameter (16.51cm)
Dynamic Balance Polymer composite driver - shielded
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm)
Silk/Polymer composite dome - shielded

Electrical
Overall Frequency Response 20 Hz - 27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 26Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 50 - 500 w/channel
Efficiency 91 dB
Crossover
(mid-high array) 2.1kHz 2nd order HP & LP
Crossover
(subwoofer) 85Hz between driver and subs, 1st order HP/2nd order LP
Inputs Dual (bi-amp) gold plated 5 -way binding posts

I have had these for about a year now. And got the pair in a CC closeout at roughly 3 hundred for the pair. Since then I have been powering them with a Parasound HCA1500a amp. An amp with respectable specs. Rated @ 205 w/c into 8 ohms. If you would care to see the specs of this amp, you may do so here: http://www.parasound.com/products/am...500aspecs.html

And with the HCA1500a, the 150's have made me very happy. I use a Yamaha RX-V3300 to steer the amp as well a HCA1000a bridged @ 400 watts into 8 ohms driving a CSi40 center. The receiver handles the rear center and rear surrounds. I have since sold the HCA1500a and replaced it with a QSC PMX2450 amp, (for those that may have missed my earlier posts)

Now, back to the task at hand. After poping the bass CD in my Denon 2200 DVD player, and adjusting the gain levels on the 2450, I was greeted with what I can only describe as POWER! I cranked the volume a bit more and OMG, I could my skin being brushed with subsonic sound waves. Items on shelfs began to vibrate and move. The walls were vibrating. The flooring was pulsing and vibrating. And I began to grin evily. Took out the bass CD and poped in "Blackmore's Night, Ghost of a Rose". Not sure if any of you are familer with them, they are a kind of Folk midevil festival group for lack of a better descripsion. But I find this to be a killer CD for testing the limits of gear. After listening for a minute, I noticed it sounded real hm..... ballsy. Kind of muddy. And I thought crap..... this isn't right. Then I got to thinking, I hadn't checked the dip switches on the back of the amp... after looking at the settings, I found the problem. It was set with the clip limiter off, and the 30/50 hz filter set to 30 hz. I turned the clip limiter on, and set the filter to 50 hz. Took another listening and thought........... ooooooooooohhhh yeah.... thats the ticket. People in the past at Polk forum have commented about the 150's lacking midrange. And that might be true.... without enough juice. But now.... I can whole-heartedly say, these speakers lack nothing, not one thing. Needless to say, "I am grinning from ear to ear" haha.

Thank you again Maz, for starting this thread... and to all of you that have contributed to it. Pro amps will be the only amps I purchase from here on out.

Oh, and another thing, the power cord that came with the 2450, is freak'n huge. And came with four large rubber feet to mount on the bottom of the chassis.
I also found a site selling it for less than what I bought for, and where I got it from will price match up to 60 days after purchase.... woot!

Terry
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post #546 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad to hear you found another winner, Terrax! Any chance you'll be doing a QSC RMX2450 vs Crown XLS-402A? I hate moving gear myself so if you're not up for it I totally understand
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post #547 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 08:51 AM
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QSC RMX2450 vs Crown XLS-402A?

That would be a nice audition to check if the user can hear any audible
gremlins caused by the QSC's esoteric power supply. Some people
stereotype certain types of designs as being inferior when used in
a home audio environment.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #548 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 09:17 AM
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Thanks for the review Terry. Those dip switches will get you every time
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post #549 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 10:17 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thylantyr
QSC RMX2450 vs Crown XLS-402A?

That would be a nice audition to check if the user can hear any audible
gremlins caused by the QSC's esoteric power supply. Some people
stereotype certain types of designs as being inferior when used in
a home audio environment.

Hm............... after being exposed to the Parasound as well as I have been, any Gremlins would have certainly came out to play last night, if they were going to. And as far as "esoteric" it wouldn't matter to me if the design was made of butter and sour cream, if it can produce what I've heard so far.

Terry
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post #550 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 10:38 AM
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Terrax,

Congrats! Now you know just how great the 150s can sound. And here I thought I got a good deal on my pair at $500. At $300/pr, you shoulda bought SIX.

Jeff
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post #551 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 11:02 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Terrax
Hm............... after being exposed to the Parasound as well as I have been, any Gremlins would have certainly came out to play last night, if they were going to. And as far as "esoteric" it wouldn't matter to me if the design was made of butter and sour cream, if it can produce what I've heard so far.

Terry

/cool



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #552 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 11:08 AM
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/joke


Pro amp user on top
home amp users on bottom

.......
.....
....
..



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #553 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 12:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thylantyr
/joke


Pro amp user on top
home amp users on bottom

.......
.....
....
..



I got a .pdf from Crown regarding the wiring of an RCA male to 2 XLR "Y" connectors for the 202/402/602 series for bridge mono mode. It also stated to turn both the attenuators wide open. I asked why and got this response:

"This reference is made because the pots on the amplifier are not precision attenuators. In bridge-mono they need to be as close to each other as possible and the only two points where they are exact without using a volt meter to measure and match is all the way up or down."
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post #554 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 12:49 PM
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Probably a better explaination is that the gain controls are independent
for each channel and they are potentiometers (variable), instead of
'stepped' [attenuators], where each step is a precison resistor.

If you want to match the gain for both channels all you need is a cheap
voltmeter that reads AC voltage (Radio Shack) and perhaps a CD with
a 50hz - 200hz tone, perhaps sine wave (free download, check google.
look for MP3 test tones and burn a CD).

Disconnect the speakers from the amp, turn up the volume a bit and
measure the AC voltage of the amplifier output of one channel and
compare it to the other channel. If different, adjust the gain pot of
whichever channel to match the other.

Try your amp in bridge mode for crazy power.



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #555 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 01:31 PM
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thylantyr, that is a good idea and great way to do it if you don't want it cranked all the way. I will try that on the 402, and may even do it on the bridged 202.

Always have a RS digital meter and SPL meter in the drawer next to your equipment

Axioms and SVS sub will be here Tuesday. I'll be busy that night.
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post #556 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 01:55 PM
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Terry, Great review!!!Glad the QSC worked out for you, although I never doubted it would!!!People just don't realize how good Polk speakers are!!!!!!! For the price I can't imagine owning any other speaker than my Rt3000p's!!!! The thing is, they don't get the power they need in CC so most dismiss them!!BIG MISTAKE!!!!!

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #557 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 02:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by brickie
Terry, Great review!!!Glad the QSC worked out for you, although I never doubted it would!!!People just don't realize how good Polk speakers are!!!!!!! For the price I can't imagine owning any other speaker than my Rt3000p's!!!! The thing is, they don't get the power they need in CC so most dismiss them!!BIG MISTAKE!!!!!

brickie

I agree whole-heartedly. I just took a look at the RT3000p's on Polks site, and wow, those look awesome. Haven't read the specs yet, but I will. I really like the look of those.

Yeah, the 2450 is very very nice. And the price/performance ratio is awesome.

One thing I forgot to point out about the 2450, is the fan noise, I don't hear it at all from my sitted position. It has a variable speed fan, so I doubt this will ever become an issue.

Terry
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post #558 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 02:43 PM
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I think these pro amps are really catching on!!!

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #559 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 03:54 PM
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Hi all, Im a bit late with this amp thread, but I own a denon-3805 and would like to attach a seperate amp. Will I gain more authority and warmer sound with a seperate amp? Also which amp do you suggest would sound the best with the denon? So many amps have been mentioned in this thread that Im not really sure which is the best performer, thanks!
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post #560 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 04:12 PM
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Hi, welcome to our very long thread!!I can't answer the both questions but i'll answer the "gain more authority" question..

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I answered it for you!!!I have 3 Crown XLS 402's and can't imagine it getting any better!!!!!Iv'e EASILY,and this is a keyword, got anywhere from 260 to 400 watts feeding my home theater speakers!!!!!!Dynamics are nothing short of breath taking !!!

I really feel now if you don't listen to speakers in your home, then you aren't really finding out what they can really do..And you really need one of these amps to accomplish that!!I believe the reason many dismiss Polks are because they simply don't have the power to satisfy these hungry speakers..What CC for example is doing is a sin! They're starving their Polk speakers!!

For the warmer sound question, I believe it may depend more on your speakers.My Polks to me have a very dynamic in your face sound..It is warm but it's like they want to fight now,vs they were sleep at first..The sound is amazingly clean!!!!!!!I really believe my Pioneer was actually coloring the sound quite a bit..Could have been too just not enough juice to push them.

hope this helped..I believe there may be a few here using or soon to be, a Denon with some of the amps we mentioned..If so hopefully they can chime in and tell you how they think it sounds..

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #561 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 04:55 PM
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TM,

I think it depends on what speakers you have and how demanding they are.

I still say my 402 doesn't sound as neutral as my Creek. It has a lot more power though.

A few of us have changed out the fans for quieter/slow versions. Fan noise is a concern if you don't have it in an enclosed rack.
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post #562 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 04:56 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mazeroth
Glad to hear you found another winner, Terrax! Any chance you'll be doing a QSC RMX2450 vs Crown XLS-402A? I hate moving gear myself so if you're not up for it I totally understand

I wouldn't mind doing so, but I really don't think it would be a fair comparison, being there is a good amount of wattage difference between the two. And you right, it would be a pain to remove and reset-up the gears. But who knows, in the near future, I may just do it anyway.

Terry
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post #563 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 04:59 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by .jss designs
Terrax,

Congrats! Now you know just how great the 150s can sound. And here I thought I got a good deal on my pair at $500. At $300/pr, you shoulda bought SIX.

Thanks! I wish I could have afforded to buy six pairs, hehe. I just wish CC was blowing out the current RTi's like they did last years.

Terry
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post #564 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 05:24 PM
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Has anyone figured out how to turn them on remotely?
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post #565 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 05:53 PM
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Why wouldn't X-10 work? Maybe an appliance module perhaps..

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #566 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 06:32 PM
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Thanks for the info Brickie, it seems like you are enjoying your new external amps! I am pretty new to this external amp stuff and would like to clarify some questions. If you have 3 of these pro amps, how many speakers do you have attached to each one? If each one has 2 channels available and if you have a 7.1 system, Im guessing the 7th speaker would be connected to the receiver? Or maybe one of your pro amps include 5 channels? And finally, my M&K speakers sound pretty bright and are rated at 4 ohms, if I get an external amp, would this eliminate the "low impedance" issue on the denon since I'll be running the speakers to an external amp? I also heard rotel is a pretty good external amp, how would this compare to the pro amp you're using? Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are getting me into this stuff!!!
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post #567 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 06:39 PM
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Posted by TMLeader:
Quote:


If you have 3 of these pro amps, how many speakers do you have attached to each one? If each one has 2 channels available and if you have a 7.1 system, Im guessing the 7th speaker would be connected to the receiver? Or maybe one of your pro amps include 5 channels?

There are quite a few setup options for 3 stereo amps + 7.1 speakers. You could have one amp bridged to power your Center Channel, one powering your Front left + right speakers, one powering the left + right Side Surrounds, and use your receiver to power the Rear Surround's since they rarely get used.

Or, you could have one amp for fronts, one for side surrounds, and one powering a center channel and un-powered subwoofer. Again the receiver would power the rear surrounds.

Or, you could have one amp for fronts, one for side surrounds, and one powering a center channel and a bass shaker/sonic transducer. Your receiver would power the rear surrounds.

See - lots of setup flexibility!
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post #568 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 06:42 PM
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thanks, that helps clarify things. I currently have a 5.1 system, and Im not too sure which external amp I should use. Rotel seems nice, but this thread mostly talks about using pro amps as external amps. Whats the difference? Also, if I get an external amp, how different will the sound be?
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post #569 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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One of the things I noticed when hooking the Crown up to my older Polks is that the speakers do sound less bright. This is probably due to the amp being able to push the woofers better, whereas before the receiver could push the tweeter just fine while the woofers suffered. This is no longer the case when you're dealing with a good, strong external amp. It enables every driver to get as much power as it needs and therefore you get a flatter response curve. Before the woofers just weren't getting enough (woofers are harder to drive than a tweeter, usually) so the tweeter was overcompensating.

Hope this helps a little
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post #570 of 4975 Old 07-23-2004, 06:45 PM
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thanks mazeroth, I needed that issue clarified too since I use M&K speakers rated at 4 ohms into my denon 3805. If I get an external amp (not sure which one and I do need help choosing 1!) I hope this will solve the "brightness" issue on these speakers.
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