New amp is making me grin from ear to ear =) - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 10:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bryan G.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record. Did you try double blind testing? Or at least blind?

I am not sure of the features of the crown, but are there any filters that need to be turned off? I know my qsc has a couple that I turned off before using.

-Bryan

People are senstivity to frequency response variations and power,
thus forming conclusions based on what their expectations are from
the job of amplification.

For example, I'd rather have an amplifier that is flat in response and
it may be interpreted as 'dull' compared to a an amplifier that isn't
as flat and my enhance the top end (natural EQ built in). /// \\\\\\



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The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #632 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 10:12 AM
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ok last reply before I head out.



I can't comment on rmx serries but my plx has considerable fan noise. It is not loud, but compared to "noise floor" and "cross talk" it is the only issue that is an issue. I would not like to have a stack of 3 or 4 stiting in between my speakers out in the open. In a rack or away from the soundstage it wouldn't be bothersome. I haven't heard any other pro-amps in a home invironment so I can't comment on that, but on a gig when my qsc's fan kicks into overdrive(never at home) it is louder then most other amps in that environment.


-Bryan
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post #633 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 12:41 PM
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I am thinking about adding a second amp to my system. I am just wondering, how you guys are addressing the power switching ( On/off ) for the seperate amps. I have a switched output on my reciever, but is this the best way to go ? I would obviosly like the seperate amp to come on with the reciever, but it seems to me power consumption would be too high to use this output.

Thanks,

Jay
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post #634 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 12:49 PM
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Quote:


I have a switched output on my reciever, but is this the best way to go ?

No, do not use that outlet, it is ment for CD players and tape decks with low wattage output, most of the time they rate that outlet at 100watts or less.
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post #635 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 12:53 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jayman20
I am thinking about adding a second amp to my system. I am just wondering, how you guys are addressing the power switching ( On/off ) for the seperate amps. I have a switched output on my reciever, but is this the best way to go ? I would obviosly like the seperate amp to come on with the reciever, but it seems to me power consumption would be too high to use this output.

Thanks,

Jay

IIRC, on my H/K 7200 it says max 100 watts for the switched outlets. I just leave mine on all the time.
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post #636 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:04 PM
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I have an Onkyo TX-SR600 reciever and 2 Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 fronts. I was wondering how to connect the Crown amp. Do I need a different reciever? The Crown amp sounds great! Thanks for any help.
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post #637 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:05 PM
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I just turn mine on when necessary, no big deal...As far as fan noise goes, I was told or read by a member that knows both amps that the Qsc's have much louder fans than the Crowns..For me the fan noise of the Crown has turned out to be not a big deal at all...

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post #638 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:05 PM
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Gufftech, do you have preouts on the back of your receiver?

brickie

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post #639 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:08 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by GuffTech
I have an Onkyo TX-SR600 reciever and 2 Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 fronts. I was wondering how to connect the Crown amp. Do I need a different reciever? The Crown amp sounds great! Thanks for any help.

GuffTech, unfortunately the Onkyo TX-SR600 does not have any pre-outs to input into the amp. I just sold mine for that reason and got a Denon AVR-3805.
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post #640 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:10 PM
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Ahhh, looks like an upgrade is in order.Strrange no preouts..What was Onkyo thinking..

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post #641 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 01:13 PM
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I have a sub pre-out, but I guess that would'nt work. I might have to ebay my Onkyo and step up to a better reciever.
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post #642 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 02:10 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by brickie
Ahhh, looks like an upgrade is in order.Strrange no preouts..What was Onkyo thinking..

brickie

To sell you the higher model up with preouts



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post #643 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 02:14 PM
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That's one good thing about Pioneer, even their lower models have pre-outs.

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #644 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 03:11 PM
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So Brickie when I get a reciever with preouts how do I connect it? Thanks.
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post #645 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 04:31 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bartman_451
Has anybody compared fan noise levels between the Crown 402 and the QSC RMX-850? The Crown has two fans, while the QSC has only one, and it's VARIABLE SPEED. Perhaps at home theater volumes/loads, the QSC might be much quieter ??? . . . just a thought. I'm curious, because I'm looking into getting a stack (3-4) of whichever one I buy to amplify all the channels in my theater. The crown seems to cost around ($270 including shipping on ebay, where the QSC goes for $299 including shipping, so price isn't that big a deal. The Crown has a slightly higher power rating (260wpc vs. 200wpc), but in my small (19x11 ft.) roomw, that wouldn't make much difference, I think. The QSC is heavier, by about 10lbs. for whatever that's worth.

Anybody done comparisons on fan noise/sound between these two "contendas" for king of affordable amps?

Any comments appreciated,
Bart

I have a Crown 402a and a QSC RMX2450. And believe me, the "fans" on the 402a are louder than the 0ne fan on the RMX2450. Heck, the fans on the 402 are louder than the fans in my computer, which has 8. And the 402 is within two feet of my comp...... But I tell you, this fan noise issue, is really not an "issue". Once you are listening to any material being played, even at normal levels, you will not notice the fans. Especially, in an home theater environment.
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post #646 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 04:51 PM
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I had 3 of the QSC RMX 2450 amps hooked up to my Martin Logan Sequels and it was the best my system had ever sounded. I have in the past had Classe dr10 (bridged mono), Adcom amps and I demoed the Crown amps with the QSC. For my taste the QSCs were the best. When I sold my Martin Logans I sold the QSC amps (the fan noise was the only downside, now I have a DLP projector and it makes more noise than the QSC amps:-) ). I just picked up a Monster MPA 3250 for $900 and it sounds very good. Its downside is weight (100+lbs).

Denon 4520ci, 3 JBL 2360As/EV DHA-1s, 3 1/4 Pie bass bins, MiniDSP 2x4s, 4 Klipsch HIPs, 2 Klipsch KP3002s, PS3, XBox 360, 3 Intel NUCs, Monoprice Redmere, Monster HTPS7000, 2 SUPER SPUD subs, Panasonic AE8000u, 2 Danley DTS10 subs, & Yamaha P7000s.
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post #647 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 07:55 PM
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20,000 thread views, way to go peeps .
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post #648 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:03 PM
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Hey guys, I got the Axioms a day early and have been doing some listening studies here. My equipment is as follows: Denon 3805, Axiom M22Ti front speakers, Crown 402. I don't have the cable for the Crown 202 for the center, so I set everything up with stereo only using the 402 for the front channels. (260 watts per channel)

I did the auto EQ on the Denon, and the volume controls on the Crown were set on half way. My wife was part of the listening experiment. I played a couple of CD's, Dixie Chicks and Brooks & Dunn. The soundstage was incredible, and the vocals cut right through you. Even though the Axiom speakers are not known for their bass, it sounded fairly good on the low end for small bookshelf speakers. I should be getting my SVS subwoofer tomorrow, so that will be another review. We were both blown away by the clarity and presence.

Let me digress here a minute. There was audible humming noticeable about four feet and closer to the speakers. Like Rich mentioned earlier today, he heard the same thing. Don't know the cause at this point, but I will disconnect the modified fans tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. We could not hear the hum at all when the music was playing (duh). The 402 is using the SilenX fans with a 10 watt 100 ohm resistor. I even switched to the 202 with stock fans and the same resistor and I still had the same humming.

So at this point, I disconnected the Crowns and hooked the speakers directly to the Denon. Complete and utter silence. So I re-did the speaker calibration and tested the whole thing with just the Denon. There was no comparison. Sound was shallow, highs were not as pronounced and bass was muffled. Vocals did not even come close. Even my wife noticed that at the same volume level, the sound was not as good. Granted it sounded pretty decent, but after hearing it with the 402, The Crown hands down whooped up on the Denon. The Axioms are 200 watt speakers and they came to life with 260 watts from the Crown vs. 120 put to them with the Denon.

I am done for the night with this experiment, but will disconnect the fans on the Crown tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. If I can find the source of the noise I will be good to go.
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post #649 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:13 PM
 
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the hum you are experiencing could possibly be from the RCA to XLR cable that you are using....

on my carver pro amp the owner's manual said to make sure that pins 1 and 3 are connected to each other....

if you don't do this you can cause hum in your system....

cheers!

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post #650 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jazzcat

Let me digress here a minute. There was audible humming noticeable about four feet and closer to the speakers. Like Rich mentioned earlier today, he heard the same thing. Don't know the cause at this point, but I will disconnect the modified fans tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. We could not hear the hum at all when the music was playing (duh). The 402 is using the SilenX fans with a 10 watt 100 ohm resistor. I even switched to the 202 with stock fans and the same resistor and I still had the same humming.

So at this point, I disconnected the Crowns and hooked the speakers directly to the Denon. Complete and utter silence.

It sounds like you have a ground loop problem. Even though you couldn't hear the hum while playing music it could be coloring the sound to a degree. Finding ground loop problems can be a PITA sometimes. Try a ground lift adapter on the AC cord and see what happens, also does the amp have a signal ground lift switch? Is all the equipment plugged into the same circuit? I doubt the fans have anything to do with the hum.

Jim
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post #651 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:19 PM
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The nosie I was getting with my varible speed fans was far worse then just a hum, so I agree, you have a ground loop issue. As keenan just said try a cheater plug for your amps AC cord, I bet the hum will go away.
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post #652 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jazzcat
There was audible humming noticeable about four feet and closer to the speakers. Like Rich mentioned earlier today, he heard the same thing.

Sorry Jazz. I have not heard a hum it is more of a "ssshhhhh", staticy noise.
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post #653 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:26 PM
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tubeguy, the pins are indeed shorted to one another.

keenan, I don't have a ground lift switch. Can you give me some more info on a ground lift adapter short of cutting off the ground pin? Is it one of those grey 3 prong to 2 prong adapters?

SRR, thanks for further describing the solution. After hearing the difference between the Crown and the Denon, I refuse to give up.

Rich, I will disconnect the fans tomorrow and see if it is an issue, but it is definately a hum. The more I cranked the Crown beyond half way, the worse it got.
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post #654 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:30 PM
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You can get them at any home improvement center or even Radio Shack I believe.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...2720&hp=search
Grounded Plug Adapter Pk/2
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post #655 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:33 PM
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keenan, that's what I thought. I will give that a try tomorrow. Thanks! I can't wait till I can listen to the center channel with 425 watts going to it.
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post #656 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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jazzcat, glad to hear you're loving what you're hearing, ya hear?

Hope you can get that humming problem fixed. I never experienced it so I don't have a clue. The "hidden" bass the Crown can bring out is staggering. My Polks had little bass to them but once hooked up to the Crown, WoW! My brother came over to visit and the first thing he said when he entered my house was, "Holy sh!t!". My speakers are in the basement and the amount of bass they produce upstairs is unreal. It sounded like I had 2 powered subs running

Good luck on getting it fixed and keep us posted!
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post #657 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:38 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mazeroth
jazzcat, glad to hear you're loving what you're hearing, ya hear?

Hope you can get that humming problem fixed. I never experienced it so I don't have a clue. The "hidden" bass the Crown can bring out is staggering. My Polks had little bass to them but once hooked up to the Crown, WoW! My brother came over to visit and the first thing he said when he entered my house was, "Holy sh!t!". My speakers are in the basement and the amount of bass they produce upstairs is unreal. It sounded like I had 2 powered subs running

Good luck on getting it fixed and keep us posted!

Mazeroth, I was quite frankly blown away at the difference between the Crown and the Denon. I turned the volume way up (drove wife and son out of the room) and I was in heaven on earth Crystal clear and not a bit of heat build up from the Crown. Holy Sh1t is an understatement!!
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post #658 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 08:48 PM
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Ground loops are common when having one or more two prong AC cords and introducing one or more three prong AC cord into the same outlets. I have in the past gotten rid of ground loops by doing as stated above, and using an adapter, so that all of the gear is using the same method. It can also happen when using two different outlets to power a lot of gear that is all connected together. And it will happen regardless of "brand of gear" or "how much was paid for it".

Terry
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post #659 of 4974 Old 07-26-2004, 10:38 PM
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The power increase from 120w (Denon) to 260w (Crown) brings out the
interpretation of 'better' sound quality doesn't it ? hehe......



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #660 of 4974 Old 07-27-2004, 04:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thylantyr
The power increase from 120w (Denon) to 260w (Crown) brings out the
interpretation of 'better' sound quality doesn't it ? hehe......

Yes...that's the word I was looking for. "better"

If I hadn't gotten the Crowns I would probably have been satisfied with the sound from the Denon. But since I have heard it with the 402, I couldn't go back.

Terry, everything is plugged into a dedicated 20 amp circuit I installed. All equipment is 2 prong except the Crowns. I will get back to it when I get home. I took a lot of time with cable management, trying to keep video, audio and power cables separate or at right angles to each other so it sounds like the ground pins may very well be the culprit.
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