New amp is making me grin from ear to ear =) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Just purchased a pro amp, a Crown XLS-402A off Ebay for my Polk LSi speakers. I was driving them with approx 70-80wpc before with my HK AVR230 receiver in stereo mode. Hooked this baby up today and I couldn't believe my ears! She's rated at 400x2 at 4 ohms. Disgusting.

I turned the gain all the way up on the Crown to see if any feedback or noise was audible and I could only hear it if I got extremely close to the speaker. It has dual fans which really aren't as bad as I thought they'd be. I can't believe you can get this much performance so cheap. It's almost like I stole the performance! ($250)

When I first got the amp and took it out of the box I couldn't believe how sturdy and heavy it was, AND how good looking it was as well. The only thing I had to buy extra were two XLR adapters to RCA, which ran me $14 shipped.

Just wanted to share my excitement with you guys!

BIG THANKS goes out to Brickie for giving me the idea! THANKS BUD!
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post #2 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 12:25 PM
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This proves that what Tim the Tool Man said about tools goes double for amplifiers: there is no substitute for "More Power!"
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post #3 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 01:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by gwsat
This proves that what Tim the Tool Man said about tools goes double for amplifiers: there is no substitute for "More Power!"

More power

Prices on the entry level prosound amplifiers are affordable.

One example that comes to mind. QSC 1800w for ~$400 new (online.)

It's nice to see people finally use prosound amplifiers in the home,
whereas in the old days it was considered voodoo ..


... and still is by many



The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #4 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 01:53 PM
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Took the words out of my mouth..Still is vodoo yo many..Oh well.

Mazeroth, all I can say is YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad it worked out for you man...Your feelings are very much what I experienced! I even told my wife it was as good as sex LOL..It is just mind boggling the performance that you can get with these amps!!! Hey, I just ordered 2 more.At first I was going to just use the 1, but man I got amp all my channels with these babies! Best kept secret, or whatever you want to call it!

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #5 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Just popped in my fiancee's Norah Jones CD and....oh my lord....AMAZING! I was testing it out with some rock/metal earlier and decided to pop in a higher quality recording. She HATES my speakers but after hearing Norah Jones with this setup she actually complemented it, with a smile as well!

No doubt the best purchase I've ever made for my system, well, I'd say on par with getting the Polk LSis.

They've been on for a few hours and I still have chills in my body, I swear to it. I guarantee it would be nearly indistinguishable for someone to pick out this Crown vs. a higher priced amplifier.

Brickie, where do you have your volume/gain settings on your Crown at? I've been testing with 50% and 75%ish.

Thanks again, man! You have made my day!

-Christian
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post #6 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 03:03 PM
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Man, I'm just glad this has worked as great for you as it has for me!!!I don't want to start a flame war, but I'd never buy some of the "higher priced" amps whose name s get thrown around here often. This pro amp is just that good!!! Everyone owes it to their self to give it a listen before making a decision.My latest were picked up for $200 of ebay so an even sweeter deal! For around $750 iv'e got unlimited power, and an amazing sound!!

Mazeroth, I keep mine on 50 percent or right in the middle..I had mine much higher but turned it down . I'm superstitous in that I don't like to have my volume knob on equipment up that high if possible..I just set it at 50 percent then used pioneer test tones to calibrate levels with my SPL meter to be even all the way around room..Will do the same when others come!!

brickie

You know how good this is..I'm listening to a bunch of symphony music just because all of the instruments blow me away!Hey, how does this compare to the amp you were using? the one you said that you paid a TON for and didn't expect the Crown to beat?

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #7 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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"Hey, how does this compare to the amp you were using? the one you said that you paid a TON for and didn't expect the Crown to beat?"

No idea what you're talking about First amp for me.

Another thing...I hooked up a 3 year old pair of Polk RTi600s that I have in my 2nd system to this amp and WOWZERS! They sound almost as good as the LSis, honestly. Not as detailed but the improvement over my other receiver is huge. Now I'm on a mission to tell everyone I know that has a receiver and nice speakers to get one of these bad-boys!

Does your Crown even get remotely warm? I've had mine running for about 4 hours straight now and it feels like I never turned it on. The air it's pulling thru and blowing out the back is cold. It's amazing. I may just take out the fans and see what happens. I bet it still performs flawlessly.
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post #8 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 04:12 PM
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Got my forum members mixed up..I know someone else as well is waiting on one of these..

Mine runs ice cold as well..Those fans really are doing the job.Iv'e got a link I can find if you need it to a place where you can get some SUPER quiet fans if you want to replace the ones in there..I haven't done it so not sure about how quiet it would be..Honestly though, the fans really are a non issue.Can't hear them at all when watching a movie..even during quieter passages..

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post #9 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 04:16 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mazeroth
Does your Crown even get remotely warm? I've had mine running for about 4 hours straight now and it feels like I never turned it on. The air it's pulling thru and blowing out the back is cold. It's amazing. I may just take out the fans and see what happens. I bet it still performs flawlessly.

in home applications you will probably not have any problems....

after talking with the factory reps, i disconnected the fan on my carver professional ZR1000 amplifier.....

no fan noise and it is still cool to the touch on the top of the amp....

cheers!

btw - congrats on your new amplifier!!!

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post #10 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya, still contemplating touching the fans or not. When I have music on or a movie I can't hear them at all. Was going to unplug them just out of curiousity to see how hot she'd get

Brickie, when you get all 3 are you going to put them in a rack or just on a shelf, 3 on top of each other or on different ones? I'm probably going to pick up a few more of these (trying to talk my brother into one now) and am not sure what I should do. I bet I could just stack all 3 on top of each other in my cherry entertainment stand. Talk about mean-looking

Another question...we're talking about a LOT of current here. Won't 2-3 of these trip a breaker in the townhouse I'm living in? They only have 15 amp breakers in the fuse box. Gotta figure the whole room is probably sharing one, and I have a receiver, 1-3 amps, DVD player, projector etc... in there. Any ideas?
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post #11 of 4988 Old 07-01-2004, 07:59 PM
 
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mazeroth
Ya, still contemplating touching the fans or not. When I have music on or a movie I can't hear them at all. Was going to unplug them just out of curiousity to see how hot she'd get

Brickie, when you get all 3 are you going to put them in a rack or just on a shelf, 3 on top of each other or on different ones? I'm probably going to pick up a few more of these (trying to talk my brother into one now) and am not sure what I should do. I bet I could just stack all 3 on top of each other in my cherry entertainment stand. Talk about mean-looking

Another question...we're talking about a LOT of current here. Won't 2-3 of these trip a breaker in the townhouse I'm living in? They only have 15 amp breakers in the fuse box. Gotta figure the whole room is probably sharing one, and I have a receiver, 1-3 amps, DVD player, projector etc... in there. Any ideas?

a couple of points if i may....

if you keep the fans hooked up, then there is no problem in stacking them... that's the way they were designed .. to be stacked....

the current issue will only become a problem if you play your system extremely loud.... normal home theater use or even multichannel SACD/DVD-audio use will not be any problem for your 15 amp circuit....

cheers!

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post #12 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 11:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mazeroth
Ya, still contemplating touching the fans or not. When I have music on or a movie I can't hear them at all. Was going to unplug them just out of curiousity to see how hot she'd get

Brickie, when you get all 3 are you going to put them in a rack or just on a shelf, 3 on top of each other or on different ones? I'm probably going to pick up a few more of these (trying to talk my brother into one now) and am not sure what I should do. I bet I could just stack all 3 on top of each other in my cherry entertainment stand. Talk about mean-looking

Another question...we're talking about a LOT of current here. Won't 2-3 of these trip a breaker in the townhouse I'm living in? They only have 15 amp breakers in the fuse box. Gotta figure the whole room is probably sharing one, and I have a receiver, 1-3 amps, DVD player, projector etc... in there. Any ideas?

I'll be stacking mine right on top of each other..When we get a house and do a dedicated room,I'll probaly invest in a rack at that point.

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #13 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 12:36 PM
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I am glad more of you are finding out how good these amps are. I have had my 3 402s and one 202 for quit awhile now. And like brickie said I wouldn't touch some of these consumer amps when you can get this much power for such low $$$ output.

BTW I run my gain knobs at full on the amps,except the one amp channel that is powering my six aura bass shackers, that I run two to four notchs below full.
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post #14 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 12:42 PM
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I really wish someone that has say an Outlaw or another "high end" amp that has tried a 402 or othe r pro amp would chime in..We all love them, but just curious what a owner of "high end" amp thinks..

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #15 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 12:56 PM
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I don't know much about the Crown pro amps but I recently heard a BGW pro amp driving Martin Logans (very revealing speakers) and I was shocked at how good that amp sounded. Everything I have ever read or heard about pro amps was that they all had great bass but were thin or bright in the midrange and high end.

This is not what I heard from the BGW amp. Top end and midrange were totally flat and transparent. Ditto for the Carver pro amps (although these are digital).

I have heard several amps in my system driving my Maggies so I am not of the "all amps sound the same" club but I will say that amp differences are subtle and not dramatic. Maybe what we are hearing from these pro amps is the dramatic advantages of having MASSIVE power reserves. My friend's BGW amp pumps out 600W/channel on his Martin Logans.
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post #16 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 01:03 PM
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I totally agree with that..Huge pwoer reserves wether or not you use them or not makes a HUGE difference!

brickie

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #17 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 01:20 PM
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i've said it before on these amps too....i like em.

just be warry if you are going to be pounding some bass through them...I would use a different crown amp to run subs or the low end of a bi-amped stack. They don't even publish the slew rate on the XLS seris, and i have noticed a considerable lack of bass when i get them really pumping.

On a side note...after hearing you guys (mainly brickie. ) go on about these XLS's, i decided to give one of mine another listen. So i took some of my gear that i had lying around doing nothing (mainly cheap stuff) and put it together. Its now my music room. I should say, im pretty happy with it. Still a little hissy for me..but that could be my power....what i got is...

Technics CD Player
McLelland DJ mixer
Alesis MEQ-230 EQ
TDM Crossover (running 2 way right now)
Crown XLS402 for Hi's
Crown Power Tech 2 For lows
Yamaha S115IV's for the hi's
Yamaha SW118's for the lows.

i'll post a pic later...but yeah..the crown sounds pretty good. Maybe ill just keep it out of the closet. Sorry brickie...no sale yet.

Later
Scott

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post #18 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 01:24 PM
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That's okay, I just picked up 2 more a few days ago for a SWEET price to complete all I need!!! I use powered towers with 300 watt subs in each so no big deal at all for me.

brickie

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post #19 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 02:09 PM
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I always placed the QSC a little higher than the crown's, does anyone have any opinions on this?
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post #20 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 02:30 PM
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I was going to go with QSC's, but the Crowns had better power ratings for the "same dollar" models.I believe the Crowns also have a warranty program un equaled as far amps.3 yr no fault!!Fully transferable as well.

brickie

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post #21 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 02:56 PM
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Here is some insight on home vs. proamplifier designs.

The typical home amplifier of high power will use 90v rails (180v) and will operate into very low impedance loads if designed
to do so.

Important -> The rail voltage is one variable in the power equation
and less rail voltage = greater chance of clipping the audio signal.

Lower powered amplifier will have less rail voltage, higher powered
amplifiers have higher.

The typical prosound amplifier of high power will use much higher
voltage rails, lets say 125v - 140v estimate. (250v - 280v)
But many are not designed for 1 ohm per channel stability. The heatsink
design is minimalist in nature to keep the design in an industry standard
chassis, that is why they have fans to dissipate the heat from the
smaller heatsinks. Also, less heatsinks = lower cost.

You can easily modify a prosound amplifier with alot more heatsinking
and you will be able to drive a lower impedance load if the output
stage is up to the task. It may not be depending on how much
output stage redundency is used and how much power the transformer
is rated for, but nonetheless, you can operate it at a lower impedance
even at reduced power depending on the loudspeaker connected to it.

Prosound amplifiers add much more signal processing to the equation
which goes against audiophile thinking that 'less is best'. The funny
part is that people are providing testimonials that their high powered
prosound amplifiers are doing great.

Oversized amplifiers =



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The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #22 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 04:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Edvard_Grieg
I always placed the QSC a little higher than the crown's, does anyone have any opinions on this?

i'll bite.

As far as I'm concerned, in the pro audio world, Crown and QSC are about neck and neck. Some hear a difference in sound, and some don't. I am one that does. Now in my PERSONAL OPINION, I like crown's sound better. Maybe its because i have been around PA systems too long, so like the detail that i hear...i dunno. What i do know, though, is that i have seen touring rigs equipt with both crown and qsc.

For instance, Yanni. Don't laugh...its a really good live show. lol...ok laugh. Anyway, they were using Martin Audio clustars. For those that don't know, they are one of the uber high end in the Pro Audio world, right up there with McCauley, EAW, Meyer, etc. There are more, but thats not the point. What im getting at is that that whole rig was powered by QSC. I have seen other systems powered by all Crown. Shania Twain had Crown gear.

I guess my point is, its really either or. It just comes down to which you prefer.

TubeGuy...back me up here.

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post #23 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 08:14 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Edvard_Grieg
I always placed the QSC a little higher than the crown's, does anyone have any opinions on this?

Depends on the models. I've been told that the lower cost Chinese made stuff is so-so. It would make sense too, if you have your best products built there, it will be made in knock-offs pretty soon afterward.
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post #24 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 08:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jane Spellman
I don't know much about the Crown pro amps but I recently heard a BGW pro amp driving Martin Logans (very revealing speakers) and I was shocked at how good that amp sounded. Everything I have ever read or heard about pro amps was that they all had great bass but were thin or bright in the midrange and high end.


A lot of them are still used in audio production work, and I think there may be a home system coming out using the new ones.
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post #25 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 09:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thylantyr
[b]Here is some insight on home vs. proamplifier designs.

The typical home amplifier of high power will use 90v rails (180v) and will operate into very low impedance loads if designed
to do so.

This does not sound correct. The rail voltages are not likely that high on a typical home amplifier. You can look at the equations given on the page below, which compares power and current for A/B amps. Based on Ohm's law, a 90V rail is going to be over 1000W at 8 ohms theoretical, and I recall that a 100V rail does give over 1000W at 8 ohms.

http://www.bcae1.com/hcvsnohc.htm

Any product can run into low imepedance if designed to do so. Most typical home amps do not have 2 Ohm ratings, and if they do they would require very massive heatsinking without fans. At around 50% efficiency at best, a A/B amp would generate the same amount of heat it is providing to audio. So a 1000W at 2 Ohm is going to give off 1000W heat at the least.

Quote:


The typical prosound amplifier of high power will use much higher
voltage rails, lets say 125v - 140v estimate. (250v - 280v)
But many are not designed for 1 ohm per channel stability. The heatsink
design is minimalist in nature to keep the design in an industry standard
chassis, that is why they have fans to dissipate the heat from the
smaller heatsinks. Also, less heatsinks = lower cost.

Most pro audio amps are designed to run at 2 Ohm because the number of speakers used are typically many, and are wired in various series/parallel arrangements that would result in lower impedence.
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post #26 of 4988 Old 07-02-2004, 11:18 PM
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do the highs lose detail? mazeroth whats your crossover at? have you tried lower ones, now that there's no shortage of clean power?
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post #27 of 4988 Old 07-03-2004, 07:36 AM
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F355, On MY setup I can tell you, there are no highs missing whatsoever!!!Iv'e been playing alot of jazz,symphony, and other music with female vocals.And it is nothing short of outstanding!!!!!!!!Just cutting right thru me..And yes I mean this in a great way!!!!

As far as bass getting thin, never hear dthat one..In fact the king of bass,"jeff the Bland" uses pro amps to run his subs,and I believe he has described the feeling as "scary"!Like I said, I use powered towers so bass is PLENTY abundant!! I know I'm singing the praises of this amp,but it is just that good!!!!!!

brickie

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post #28 of 4988 Old 07-03-2004, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Everything that I loved about my LSis I am now loving 10x more, seriously. When I first hooked them up and getting the meager 70ish wpc I was blown away by how they performed. Easily the best speaker I've ever witnessed. After listening to them for 8 months I knew exactly how they performed. Then one day I hooked up this beast they call the 402A and BADDABING! EVERYTHING sounded a LOT better. Bass extension became incredible, the mids perfect and the highs just so crisp and nice. There's no way to describe it, so I'll just copy what Brickie said a few weeks ago and dub it "Nirvana". In the 3 days I've had this setup I've already had 3 of my friends come over to witness them and they're all shocked at how much better they sound. No joke, when my brother came into my house and heard the bass coming from downstairs he looked at me, his eyebrows raised high, and said, "HOLY SH*T!". That, my friends, was priceless hehe.

What I'm hoping to do in the near future is get someone to bring over a high-end amplifier, send both the same signal and hook them up to one of my speakers each, then do an A/B comparison, double blind, and see if we can distinguish which is which. Then I will know 100% that I made the best decision possible...heck, I already know I have
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post #29 of 4988 Old 07-03-2004, 08:40 AM
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i'm primarily watching movies in my theater. i have a 7.1 setup with paradigms studios 100s and a paradigm studio center speaker. there are two svc pc plus 20-39. i.m using a sony da4es receiver now. i'm thinking of replacing the sony with a yamaha rx2400 and a gemstone 7.1 amp.

would these crown amps fit easily into such a set-up? should i consider crowns in place of the gemstone($2,499.0) howmany crown amps wolud i need?

darryl
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post #30 of 4988 Old 07-03-2004, 08:51 AM
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Brickie,

when im talking about the bass thinning out, im talking about when you are really pounding on the amp. I don't think you would have that problem when you are only running it turned half way up.

Slew rate is basically how long it takes for an amp to recover and get back to full voltage after applying all or most of its voltage to a speaker. This come in with really heavy bass hits, kick drum, etc. Its usually associated with live sound when you are micing a kick drum or something. But i have had occations where i was djing with dance music, and that really low end signal was causing the same thing. Thats all im saying.


Darryl,
*MOST* pro amps are 2 channel. So you would need as many as it takes for all your channels. so one for each of your fronts, surronds, and rears. Now depending on how you are going to set it up changes that. For instance, i am going to be bi-amping my fronts. So i need 2 amps for my fronts. and i am going to be bi-amping my center channel, so thats one amp (2 channels). Then im going to use one amp briged for my sub channel. So for my setup i would need 6 2 channel amps. So it all depends on your application.

Really, you could get away with 4 amps for 7.1 One for fronts, one for surrounds, one for rears, and channel 1 on another for the center, and channel 2 for the sub. Or you might already have a powered sub. so that wouldn't matter. Understand what i mean?

Ok...i'll quit babbeling now.

There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness...
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