Krell or Pass Labs amp! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a friend that is looking at both of these amps and he has asked for my help. I have heard a Krell before but only the older KAV 250a but I have never seen a Pass lab before. He has heard the Pass lab but not he Krell. I love the way Krell amps sound and he said when I heard the Pass labs amp It was very sweet. I told him the Krell was a no brainier but he was told the Pass Lab was better. He is looking at the KAV line and the X line in the Pass lab. Need some help on this one guy's.
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post #2 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 03:20 PM
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Pass Lab is better than Krell. You can confirm with "Addicted Help!" He owns Pass Lab.

Make sure your friend get the X3, it is MUCH better than the X5. And just add an X150 or X250/X350 here'll be in heaven.

The X5 is already better than the Krell KAV500. But X3 is much better! That's all that I've read. You really wanna ask Addicted Help for clarification.

Check out the thread below:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=408670
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post #3 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 04:21 PM
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IMO you can't go wrong with either.

I'm less fond of the smaller, cheaper Krell amps.

But the FPB series are the finest amps I've ever heard.
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post #4 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 04:35 PM
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Oh- one thing.

If you have really inefficient speakers, like I do (Thiel)- then I would get the Krell. It has quite a bit more drive. The Pass products are not designed for brute force.

If you speakers are more sensitive (I would say 92 dB or greater) then the Pass is probably preferable.

All IMO.
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post #5 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 04:39 PM
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You really wanna ask Addicted Help for clarification
:eek: :eek: :eek:

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post #6 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 04:42 PM
 
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You really wanna ask Addicted Help for clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROTFLMAO
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post #7 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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His speakers are Definitive bp 3000tl! The pass x5 is what he saw and heard at the store. 125x5 would that be enough in a room that 15 x 22 with 16 foot ceiling. The Pass lab is very nice looking amp but man is it big and its weights over 80 ponds for just 125x5. He has a meridian 568 processor and very good wires. Looks like most people like the Pass amps!
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post #8 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 05:24 PM
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I would buy any of the Pass amps over a Krell KAV.

But like I said, you're dealing with two top-tier amps. There is no lose here.
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post #9 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 08:23 PM
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With what speakers?!?

John
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post #10 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitive Tech bp3000tl.....
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post #11 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 08:33 PM
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Oh. I thought you were kidding. The answer is neither. A receiver might be a good idea, a Rotel, NAD, Acurus, Sherbourn or other ~$1500 amp would be more than sufficient, in fact, I'd argue overkill. Why would you spend big money to drive mass-market speakers? At least get into some Ariel Acoustics or Revels or *something* before blowing big money on a high-end amp.

John
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post #12 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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You mean Aerial Acoustics! You should learn how to spell the name before you recommend them.
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post #13 of 44 Old 10-07-2004, 10:02 PM
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Okay, so I fat-fingered my reply. Let's go back to English school, shall we?

"I have heard a Krell before but only the older KAV 250a but I have never seen a Pass lab before."

It's Pass Labs. Also, it should be - I have heard a Krell before, the older KAV 250a, but I have never [heard] a Pass Labs before.

"He has heard the Pass lab but not he Krell."

Aside from the Pass Labs error, "the" is spelled with a "t" in it.

"I love the way Krell amps sound and he said when I heard the Pass labs amp It was very sweet."

The proper way of composing this passage is as follows - I love the way the Krell amps sound but he said, "when I heard the Pass Labs' amp, it was very sweet."

"I told him the Krell was a no brainier but he was told the Pass Lab was better."

It's "brainer". If you want to get into the proper spelling of slang. And it's still "Pass Labs"

"He is looking at the KAV line and the X line in the Pass lab. Need some help on this one guy's."

Pass Labs. Pass Labs. Pass Labs. Also, it should be "I need some help..." and "guy's" is actually "guys", no need for for the apostrophe.

I'm sure my father, the English teacher, could correct you accurately than I can, but, perhaps, you should learn English a little better before throwing stones.

John
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post #14 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 12:25 AM
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HAHAHAHA, now that's what I call OWNED!
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post #15 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey you started trowing stones at the Bp300tl speakers saying they are mass produced speakers. There are many mass produced speakers out there that sound very good (Jm lab, B&W, ect). There is nothing wrong with the Bp3000tl speakers actually they better my old Kef 104 in just about every way. Have you ever heard the speaker?
Thats funny my wife is a teacher and she says my grammar is awful.
I just like it when people bash other brands or say that is mass produced. Most people on this board have mass produced products and that is calling there stuff junk and its not to them. Just say one sound better then the other or I like this much better, This is what I do not like and this is what I do not. Very few people have a complete high end gear from top to bottom or all the gear is at the same level. You start somewhere and I should hope that a Pass Labs X5 should make his speakers sound much better the a Lesser amp. I have heard a $2000 ACT speakers sound awesome on a $12,000 Krell FPB amp. I also think that the amp will be around much longer then his speakers.
PS Now you got me using spellcheck........
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post #16 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 06:05 AM
 
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Hey you started trowing stones at the Bp300tl speakers saying they are mass produced speakers.....
they are mass produced speakers...... and although i have disagreed with Alimentall in the past on different issues, he is definitely right in this case....

using a pass labs or krell amp for def tech's is way overkill..... a gemstone, sherbourne, sunfire, or many other amps in that range would do an excellent job and more than likely sound the same......

def tech's by their design (bi-polar) are not exactly known as speakers that produce "hi-definition, detailed sound" - big soundstage with room filling sound...... but hardly detailed sound......

but if you got the bucks - go for it!..... it also prepares you for the speaker upgrade that will be coming in the future.....

(btw - it's spelled "throwing"... ;)...)

cheers!

:)
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post #17 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 06:45 AM
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All spelling lessons aside, seriously, if the DefTechs are sufficiently high-end, so is any decent separate amplifier such as those mentioned above. Going to a Pass Labs is like buying a Rolex to go with a $200 suit. It's not that DefTechs are mass-produced, it's that they're mass-marketed. They're not for high-enders, they never were. Buy some Genesis speaker, then buy that Pass Labs amp.

John
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post #18 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 07:20 AM
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If you go with the Pass Labs you will have little need to replace it in your life time. It will anchor your system and serve as a basis for up grades in the future. You can speak with Nelson Pass over at www.diyaudio.com in the Pass Labs forum.
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post #19 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 10:15 AM
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Wow, and I thought this was an audio forum...

John

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post #20 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 10:24 AM
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they are mass produced speakers
If a speaker is produced in quantity, why does that, by definition, make it worse than a boutique speaker made in someone's garage? There is a bias with some forum members (and in high-end audio in general) against successful speaker manufacturers like Klipsch, Polk, Infinity, Def Tech, etc. Just because a company is big and makes a broad range of products doesn't mean those products can't be good (and, in some cases, great!).
Just my .02...

John

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post #21 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alimentall
All spelling lessons aside, seriously, if the DefTechs are sufficiently high-end, so is any decent separate amplifier such as those mentioned above. Going to a Pass Labs is like buying a Rolex to go with a $200 suit. It's not that DefTechs are mass-produced, it's that they're mass-marketed. They're not for high-enders, they never were. Buy some Genesis speaker, then buy that Pass Labs amp.
Well, I think the bottom line is that a Rolex is still a Rolex isn't it? While I can agree that it might not be "optimal" to use a Pass Labs amp to drive mass-marketed speakers, but I think that there is NOTHING wrong if you have a chance to own a Pass Labs amp. As a matter of fact, I strongly think a Pass Labs amp will make any speakers sound better than the lesser quality amp (provided that the preamp/proc is also at Krell/Pass Labs level)

Most people can't afford Genesis speakers, so what? Are they all stupid because they can't afford both the Rolex and the $2000 suit? Don't you hate it when you are discriminated because of the way you are? I think it's a guilt when people jugdge people on appearances. It's how people feel for themselves and what they can do for each others is what that counts. Thanks Alimentall for pointing out a good point and I am sure you don't mean to hurt any body's feeling. But if I were in mtdking's shoe, I might as well don't feel right because I think I am being dicriminated. I might be wrong but it's what I think and so you can correct me.
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post #22 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 12:47 PM
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Personally I'd rather listen to a system with mass market speakers and first class electronics than one with $10,000 speakers being driven by a midfi receiver. The former will sound better every time.

I think the amp is a GREAT place to start. Most people (myself included) start with higher end speakers thinking that's going to give them the best upgrade for the buck. Those people (including myself) end up being very unsatisfied with the sound they've spent so much money for - until the time comes that they upgrade their electronics (in my case 10 years later).

Those smarter folks that start with top shelf electronics can't believe how great their inexpensive speakers sound, and know when they finally do upgrade their speakers, they'll hear every last bit of potential from the new ones.

My hard earned upgrade motto is now "For the biggest change in sound, upgrade your speakers. For the biggest improvement in sound, upgrade your electronics." And the biggest reason most of us upgrade is better audio, not just different audio.
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post #23 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 12:52 PM
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It doesn't, but time and time again, mass-marketers have shown that it's more profitable to get it "almost right" than do it right. All of the above speaker companies are popular and successful, but I haven't heard any model from them that I didn't think was obviously flawed. Or way overpriced.

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post #24 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree HTCrazy! It is the same crap you get when you go into high end store anymore! I rather purchase on the INTERNET then deal with salesman that bash other products. He bought the pass amp this morning so we will see if that was a "waste of money". I laugh when people make statements like that.
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post #25 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
Personally I'd rather listen to a system with mass market speakers and first class electronics than one with $10,000 speakers being driven by a midfi receiver. The former will sound better every time.

I think the amp is a GREAT place to start. Most people (myself included) start with higher end speakers thinking that's going to give them the best upgrade for the buck. Those people (including myself) end up being very unsatisfied with the sound they've spent so much money for - until the time comes that they upgrade their electronics (in my case 10 years later).

Those smarter folks that start with top shelf electronics can't believe how great their inexpensive speakers sound, and know when they finally do upgrade their speakers, they'll hear every last bit of potential from the new ones.

My hard earned upgrade motto is now "For the biggest change in sound, upgrade your speakers. For the biggest improvement in sound, upgrade your electronics." And the biggest reason most of us upgrade is better audio, not just different audio.

I agree 10000000%%...
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post #26 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 01:36 PM
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Just to add onto HTCRAZY's comment ...
Way back when, I had NHT VT-2's for a couple of years, driven first by a receiver, then a pre-pro + Sunfire Cinema Grand amp, which sounded better. I was actually on a speaker hunt but somehow bought a new EAD PM2000 amp before buying new speakers. It was a "Holy Sh*t !!!" experience as I had no idea my NHT's could sound so good, and then I questioned why I wanted new speakers.

- Andy
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post #27 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
My hard earned upgrade motto is now "For the biggest change in sound, upgrade your speakers. For the biggest improvement in sound, upgrade your electronics." And the biggest reason most of us upgrade is better audio, not just different audio.
You're forgetting the room :) Never forget the influence of the room!
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post #28 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTCrazy
Personally I'd rather listen to a system with mass market speakers and first class electronics than one with $10,000 speakers being driven by a midfi receiver. The former will sound better every time.
Maybe, but I'd rather have $10K speakers with a $2K integrated than $2K speakers with a $10K preamp/amp setup. Guanantee that the former sounds WAY better. There's a far greater difference between mid-fi electronics and entry-level high-end electronics than there is between entry-level and upper-level high-end. Most of my favorite amps have always been amazingly affordable. But then again, I don't let the price tag tell me how good it's going to sound.

John
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post #29 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 04:11 PM
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All of the above speaker companies are popular and successful, but I haven't heard any model from them that I didn't think was obviously flawed.
Infinity MTS Preludes? Klipsch La Scalas? JBL K2?

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post #30 of 44 Old 10-08-2004, 04:14 PM
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Okay, well, I haven't heard the JBL K2s.

John
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