"Official" Marantz 7400/7500/8400/8500 thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 703 Old 07-18-2005, 09:22 AM
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I have a question primarily for Froach or any Marantz AVR experts.

I own a SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR after using Yamaha RX-Z1 and other Yamahas) and have used the MRAC feature with pleasing results. However, I am of the opinion that MRAC, as designed in the SR8500, does some modicum of audio EQ internally in the processor but does not allow the user to configure its properties. Is this the case or does MRAC in the pre-9600 AVRs lack any form of room EQ?

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post #182 of 703 Old 07-18-2005, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmexec View Post

I have a question primarily for Froach or any Marantz AVR experts.

I own a SR8500 (my first Marantz AVR after using Yamaha RX-Z1 and other Yamahas) and have used the MRAC feature with pleasing results. However, I am of the opinion that MRAC, as designed in the SR8500, does some modicum of audio EQ internally in the processor but does not allow the user to configure its properties. Is this the case or does MRAC in the pre-9600 AVRs lack any form of room EQ?

Hmm, that's a tough one.

Marantz seems to be purposefully unclear on this. Even the name, "Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration", does not specifically imply EQ. The website features list and spec sheet are obscure as well. Both state something similar to:

Quote:


Marantz Room Acoustic Calibration (M.R.A.C.), uses an internal signal generator and a separate calibrated microphone to bring you the best audible performance in any room.

which doesn't tell us much. This quote is from the spec sheet, see here. The manual makes no mention at all if EQ is used either, just speaker connectivity, levels, distances and size.

The evidence seems to indicate no EQ, but we don't have proof. However if it did parametric EQ you'd think they'd allow you to adjust it or even just enable/disable it. They would also shout it from the rooftops I'd imagine.
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post #183 of 703 Old 07-18-2005, 11:28 AM
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Yes, I agree totally with your assessment. Hopefully they will offer a firmware upgrade to the x500 line to provide for this feature .

I just had a look at the SR9600 owner's manual and it has substancial details on configuration of the PEQ and the various sound enhancement features that were implemented in that model. I guess the advanced M.R.A.C. comes at a high price and may have put the SR8500 in an undesirably higer price bracket compared to its competition, had they offered the full EQ functionally in it.

It would be great if they could give us some of this in a future upgrade to the 7500/8500 but alas I think it will be in the form of a new product model with a much higher markup (probably competing with the Yamaha RXV-4600 and Denon AVR-4806 or their future replacements...).

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post #184 of 703 Old 07-18-2005, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe yes, maybe no?

I doubt if it would be included in a firmware upgrade. I believe it requires a fair amount of DSP resources, and if the DSP isn't designed to accomodate parametric EQ from the beginning it can't be added later.

However, parametric EQ is trickling downmarket with other manufacturers. So we could see parametric EQ in future Marantz receivers at lower cost.

If you really want room EQ, the biggest bang for your buck can be had in the bass frequencies - you may want to consider adding either an Onix R-DES or a Behringer 1124 with Room EQ Wizard (free) software.

Of course, this isn't addressing the root problem - the room. Treating first reflections and adding bass traps in the corners would be cheaper and more effective than EQ. However it can get very complicated, at least I think so.
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post #185 of 703 Old 07-19-2005, 02:47 PM
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Hi Guys

Forgive me for diluting the higher level Marantz with a lower level question, but I thought this thread is where the expertise is--and I badly need your help.

I have a Marantz SR-5500, just got it installed and it drives Monitor Audio speakers in 7.1 configuration. It also switches my component video inputs for my DVD and DVR to the projector. Seems like a nice setup, adequate for what I need.

However, I have a couple basic questions.

1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.

Lots of questions, but I imagine simple answers from you guys.

Thanks
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post #186 of 703 Old 07-19-2005, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fo. View Post

Hi Guys

Forgive me for diluting the higher level Marantz with a lower level question, but I thought this thread is where the expertise is--and I badly need your help.

I have a Marantz SR-5500, just got it installed and it drives Monitor Audio speakers in 7.1 configuration. It also switches my component video inputs for my DVD and DVR to the projector. Seems like a nice setup, adequate for what I need.

Sure, no problem. In fact I'm surprised the 4500 and 5500 aren't more popular than they are.

No elitism here, I have a 7400 which was about the same price as a 5500.

Quote:


1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

Any changes you make to CSII dialogue will only be applied to CSII Cinema mode. Personally I don't like CSII Cinema nearly as much as Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, it's just way too hot in the surrounds. Distracting.

Quote:


2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

It would work, but I can't see how it would make a difference.

Your rear channels would never work, because currently DVD players do not decode 7.1. Also bass management, tone controls, etc. can't be applied to the analog 7.1 inputs.

Finally, the DACs in the 5500 may or may not be better than the DACs in your DVD player. If they are better, you'll lose out on the sound quality increase.

Quote:


3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

I'll let someone else handle this one as all my video goes right to my TV, but if you don't have to do it (i.e. if you have only one component video source), why do it?

Quote:


4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

Sub channel setting affects only the sub channel, but it sounds like you've found one of the problems with the bass mix BOTH setting, namely boomy bass. Experiment around with setting your speakers to small, see if it helps.

Quote:


5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

If you want to hear 7.1 sound with a DVD, there's only one option, DD+PLIIx. I'm not sure which button it is on your remote. On mine I have a "Dolby double-D" button which cycles between DOLBY D and DD+PLIIx. On yours, press the SURROUND MODE button.

Note that you should be able to "overlay" PLIIx on top of Dolby Digital 5.1, it's a required function of the Dolby Pro-Logic IIx decoder. Your manual says this on page 2, but on page 24 it says:

Quote:


Pro Logic IIx mode is available for a 2ch input signal which is encoded in Dolby Digital or PCM format.

On page 26, the chart indicates that when the signal is Dolby Digital 5.1, the decoding is in DD 5.1, but when it's Dolby Digital 2.0, the decoding is Dolby Pro-Logic IIx.

This seems to imply that you cannot process Dolby Digital 5.1 signals using Dolby Pro-Logic IIx, which means you can't listen to DVDs in 7.1. This shouldn't be?

Experiment around - you should be able to decode DD 5.1 in PLIIx. My display reads "DD+PLIIx" when I do this.

Quote:


6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.

7.1 inputs do not work with any surround mode settings.
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post #187 of 703 Old 07-19-2005, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fraoch View Post

The 7500 also has biamping capability. The 8400 and 5500 would as well, but it isn't outlined in the manual - however, if you set the SB outputs up as multi-room speakers, it would work.

Can you throw some more light on this statement? I have been meaning to bi-amp my fronts, but don't know how. Thanks!

EDIT: I have a 8400

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post #188 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 07:27 AM
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John, I would like to respond to your specific questions based on my experience with the SR8500 for the last 7 months. See inline below. I should say though, that I am using a 5.1 setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Fo. View Post

1. I too have heard the quiet dialogue and overpowering sound effects/soundtrack in movies, and have taken the advice to up the center channel a few levels. Any other thoughts here? CSII setting has a SRS Dialog level option to help pop out dialogue supposedly. Is this a good thing to use? When not in CSII mode, does this still work?

The dialog level enhancer in CSII appears to steer the sound from the center channel towards the rear/front speakers. The higher the level the more you hear dialog from the rear. This can be undesirable depending on your taste. CSII dialog parameters applys only to the "CSII Cinema" DSP mode.

Quote:


2. Should I use the 7.1 channel inputs direct from DVD player instead of the digital coax input? Does this make a lot of difference?

7.1 chan inputs are used typically for transmitting high-resolution audio (DVD-Audio or SACD) from DVD players that decodes these formats natively. It is also possible to transmit Dolby Digital and DTS over these connections but it is not necessary to do so in your case, since the Marantz is equipped with the ability to process these latter formats. So to answer your question, it depends on where you want to do the digital to analog conversion - in the DVD player or in the Marantz processor.

Quote:


3. Any problems with the using the Marantz for switching component video and not going direct to projector?

This depends on your individual situation. Using the video pathways in a receiver is mainly for convenience (e.g. there are less inputs on your projector). I have not noticed any degradation of component video signal when going directly to my DLP or through the Marantz.

Quote:


4. I have large R/L speakers, and it is set to large. They sometimes provide rather loud bass sound in my opinion, even when the Sub volume has been independently lowered with its own volume contol. The seem to pop out in an overpowering fashion at times. Does the Sub channel setting drive any of the R/L sub at all? Should I drop them to Small setting and lose some of the bass it offers?

I am assuming you used a sound level meter to calibrate the speakers and subwoofer in your system so will only comment on the subwoofer setup. It is possible that you are mixing both LFE and re-directed bass from the speakers that are set to small to both your front L+R and the sub, therefore increasing the audible bass output significantly.

Quote:


5. I too heard minimal rear surround sound when set on auto. After consultation, I changed it to DD-Pro Logic II-MV and it seems to force the surround information over all channels and I hear the entire surround. What is the setting for DVD input? There are tons of settings here, Pure Direct, DTS NEO 6: Cinema, EX...which is best to use for DVD? I want to hear and utilize the full 7.1 surround that I have installed.

I have found that when allowing auto setting for the surround mode, any PCM audio (typically DirecTV non DD channels) will be in stereo. I.e. no information in the center and rear speakers. You can select one of the matrixed surround modes based on your preference. The processor will remember/recall the selected surround mode independently for each input. So if you select "DPL II MV" for DVD it will default to that mode unless the DVD soundtrack is DD 5.1 or DTS.

In my SR8500 Pure Direct mode bypasses all bass management (tone controls) and omits sub woofer usage.

Quote:


6. Do any of these problems or solutions conflict with each other? Meaning for example, 7.1 channel inputs may not work with certain surround mode settings adequately.

As I indicated earlier, 7.1 channel input is used to steer output from an out-board processor (such as a DVD player equipped with its own signal processor and outputs analog audio over the 7.1 channel RCA outputs). This mode does not undergo any processing on the Marantz. Although it is possible to configure the channel levels of the 7.1 input on the Marantz separately to that of all the other inputs.

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post #189 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 07:39 AM
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I recently purchased the Marantz SR8400 receiver. Last night I attempted to connect my NHT SW10 subwoofer. (The Subwoofer worked great with my last Denon receiver which was replaced with my new Marantz). Now, I am getting almost no signal to my subwoofer. I tried the following set ups: Setting the fronts and sides to large and setting the Bass Mix to "Both" and when that did not work, I tried setting the fronts and sides to small. By the way, YES, the subwoofer is set to "Yes". My NHT is a high powered amplified sub. When I turn the volume all the way up, I am barely hear the base. (When I turn the Subwoofer setting off on the Marantz menu, all sound from the sub stops). I tried different cables to no avail. Also, when I do the test tones from the set up menu, I receive no sound from the Sub at all unless I turn the volume "all the way up". I also tried adding +10 to the decibil level, but it makes no real difference. Do you think my Marantz is defective? What tests should I perform? I don't have another sub to test my unit with. Any suggestions will be most appreciated.
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post #190 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jdcohen View Post

I recently purchased the Marantz SR8400 receiver. Last night I attempted to connect my NHT SW10 subwoofer. (The Subwoofer worked great with my last Denon receiver which was replaced with my new Marantz). Now, I am getting almost no signal to my subwoofer. I tried the following set ups: Setting the fronts and sides to large and setting the Bass Mix to "Both" and when that did not work, I tried setting the fronts and sides to small. By the way, YES, the subwoofer is set to "Yes". My NHT is a high powered amplified sub. When I turn the volume all the way up, I am barely hear the base. (When I turn the Subwoofer setting off on the Marantz menu, all sound from the sub stops). I tried different cables to no avail. Also, when I do the test tones from the set up menu, I receive no sound from the Sub at all unless I turn the volume "all the way up". I also tried adding +10 to the decibil level, but it makes no real difference. Do you think my Marantz is defective? What tests should I perform? I don't have another sub to test my unit with. Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

I have the 8500, which is think is similar in the sub/bass management department. Before I can offer any assistance I have a few questions:
  1. What surround mode did you use to test the sound?
  2. Is yours a 7.1 setup?
  3. Is your sub connected to the SW channel in the pre-out section at the rear of the Marantz?
  4. What cross-over setting are you using in the 8400 and if your sub has a crossover setting, what is that set to?

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post #191 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 08:11 AM
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What surround mode did you use to test the sound?

I cycled through all of the surround modes using a variety of sources.

Is yours a 7.1 setup?

No, I have s 5.1 setup.


Is your sub connected to the SW channel in the pre-out section at the rear of the Marantz?

Yes, my sub is connect to the SW channell in the pre-out section. I checked this many times and compared against the diagram in the manual too.

What cross-over setting are you using in the 8400 and if your sub has a crossover setting, what is that set to?

I tried the three cross over settings available on the setup menu and then for each setting, slowly turned my cross over slider on my sub to see if there was any improvement at any setting. There was no discernable difference.

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post #192 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 08:42 AM
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Ok. So your setup is similar to my own, except I have all speakers set to small and the cross-over on my sub set to the maximum (160 Hz). This means that my sub's crossover is ignored, since I set the Marantz to crossover at 100 Hz.

If your sub is set to "auto-on", try setting it to ON (i.e. always hot) and set all speakers to small (except surround back set to off). Turn the volume on your sub to the half-way position and the sub crossover to off or to the maximum if that's how it works. Set the receiver crossover to 100 Hz and Sub to Yes. With small speakers, the bass output should default to MIX.

With the above configuration, try the setup test tone for the sub and also listen to some stereo material (e.g. a CD or the radio/tuner). If you are not able to hear the bass then there is possibly a problem with the sub, the connection or Marantz. By the way, was your 8400 brand new and from a reputable dealer?

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post #193 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 11:15 AM
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cmexec,
I have the same exact problem and already contacted Marantz.

When the fronts are set to small, you don't have an option of "Mix" or "Both".

It appears as though, the reciever is not sending a full signal to the sub for some reason.

My goal is to listen to music in "Stereo" mode with my sub supplementing the bass (as I did with my last two recievers). The Tech said because a CD doesn't have a seperate LFE channel, it won't be as pronounced as it is in Movies. Something about that doesn't fly with me. My previous Denon sent the full stereo signal to the sub, and the sub crossover (or the one in the reciever) took care of that.

The Tech suggested I set the speakers to small, and set the internal crossover to 100Hz.

My system sounds great in Dolby Digital and DTS, but regular CD music in stereo doesn't output through the sub. I have to turn it up to like -5 or 0 to even notice the sub is on....

I think its something wrong in the design of the reciever...

Is there a way to measure the signal strength of a DVD vs. a CD?

The only other thing I thought to do was connect the subwoofer via the speaker level outputs of "Main B" and play them both at the same time?
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post #194 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 11:39 AM
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buchinmj, my last comments were in response to a problem jdcohen mentioned. In contrast, I am happy with sub/bass output in my setup (SR8500). This goes for stereo, matrixed surround and discrete 5.1 channel input from a Yamaha DVD-S1500.

My understanding of the Mix/Both setting is that when you have large front speakers (e.g those that may have built-in powered subwoofers), you may chose to direct LFE and/or sound redirected from small speakers to a sub discretely or LFE+bass to both the sub and the large speakers. In systems that use small front speakers, one would typically not steer low frequencies or LFE to the small speakers so the unalterable setting of MIX possibly indicates that a mix of LFE and low bass is passed to the powered subwoofer. Although I could be wrong... According to the owner's manual, when you use the "Pure Direct" mode, the speakers are internally set to large and sub is set to on. However, PD mode does not engage the sub in the 8500.

I did have to boost the output on my subwoofer in order to improve SACD/DVD-Audio from my DVD player over the 7.1 channel inputs but this was due to a limitation in the DVD player rather than the Marantz.

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post #195 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 12:59 PM
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cmexec,
So you are saying you get the same output from you sub on stereo music, as you do with movies?

Again, I'm going to have to scour the manual and make sure I'm not doing something wrong. Perhaps I will try setting the fronts to large (I set them to small per the instructions of the tech at Marantz), and changing the bass mix to Sub only. See if that directs more signal to the sub....

I'm really confused right now as to why I can't get good output from my sub with Stereo Music.

Here is how someone else interpreted what the tech was saying to me:

"I think he was saying sources that aren't recorded with a dedicated LFE .1 channel (like 2 channel audio) won't be sent to the sub out."

If that is what the tech meant, that seems kind of silly to me....
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post #196 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buchinmj View Post

cmexec,
So you are saying you get the same output from you sub on stereo music, as you do with movies?

Again, I'm going to have to scour the manual and make sure I'm not doing something wrong. Perhaps I will try setting the fronts to large (I set them to small per the instructions of the tech at Marantz), and changing the bass mix to Sub only. See if that directs more signal to the sub....

I'm really confused right now as to why I can't get good output from my sub with Stereo Music.

Here is how someone else interpreted what the tech was saying to me:

"I think he was saying sources that aren't recorded with a dedicated LFE .1 channel (like 2 channel audio) won't be sent to the sub out."

If that is what the tech meant, that seems kind of silly to me....

buchinmj,

I am not saying that I get the same output from the sub in stereo music as in movies as technically that would not be possible, since some movies has a dedicated LFE signal. However, I am saying that the audiable output from my 8500 includes information that goes to my subwoofer when playing any source through the 8500. When there is material that has LFE, I do hear the boosted output to the subwoofer.

Note though, that I set all speakers to small and sub on and therefore have all LFE and frequencies below 100 Hz been routed to the subwoofer. Due to the "magic" of audio as perceived by the ear, with my setup, the bass is not directional (i.e. it appears as if it is not coming from the sub but rather from the main speakers).

So in detail my setup is:

OrbAudio Super8 Sub: Volume @ 12 o'clock, crossover max (160 Hz), allways on, phase 180 degrees.

Marantz SR8500: All speakers=small, Sub=yes, SB=none (I have 5.1). LFE=0db (other LFE options are "none" or "-10dB").

After running the M.R.A.C. setup, subwoofer output was set to -8dB on the SR8500. Note I had to have the sub output volume that high in order to get decent sub output when using the 7.1 channel input for SACD and DVD-Audio so this is handled by the marantz by the -8dB attenuation of sub output.

I performed a manual audio setup using a setup disc and an analog SPL meter and the settings were almost exactly as M.R.A.C. found. The only differences were , having to set subwoofer out to -5dB instead of -8dB from M.R.A.C.

I should also add that the reason I have my sup "always-on" is because I was not happy with the way the Marantz processor seem to be sending such a weak signal to the sub that its auto-off will be engaged so frequently (this may be your problem?). I toyed with using a trigger to turn the sub on when the receiver turns on but did not like the audible thump produced each time so decided to leave it on all the time.

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post #197 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you throw some more light on this statement? I have been meaning to bi-amp my fronts, but don't know how. Thanks!

EDIT: I have a 8400

Ooops, sorry about this. Looks like I goofed up here.

No, you can't biamp with the 7400/8400. I thought you could by setting the SB speakers to NONE, then using the SB speaker terminals in conjunction with the multi-room feature.

But that wouldn't work, because it's not the same signal. The multi-room output is stereo only. It's not processed at all, so the sound wouldn't be exactly the same.
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post #198 of 703 Old 07-20-2005, 07:16 PM
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Hey I'm looking for a reference to serial commands for the SR7500 receiver. Basically, I want to use girder plugins to change inputs and modes on the receiver using the serial link. Some searching has come up with no information, but I could have missed something.

Thanks!

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post #199 of 703 Old 07-21-2005, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey I'm looking for a reference to serial commands for the SR7500 receiver. Basically, I want to use girder plugins to change inputs and modes on the receiver using the serial link. Some searching has come up with no information, but I could have missed something.

Thanks!

Let us know if you find one...while I'm not an HTPC fan I would love to use one of the old PCs I have lying around for advanced/automated control and MP3/FLAC playbac.
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post #200 of 703 Old 07-21-2005, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fraoch View Post

Let us know if you find one...while I'm not an HTPC fan I would love to use one of the old PCs I have lying around for advanced/automated control and MP3/FLAC playbac.

Well, if I no one on the forum has any information, I will contact my home theater shop and ask them for the info. They're really good and I've bought enough from them recently I just don't like bothering them too much... and I really can only get there on Saturdays, so it's not convenient.

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post #201 of 703 Old 07-22-2005, 06:51 AM
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Well, if I no one on the forum has any information, I will contact my home theater shop and ask them for the info. They're really good and I've bought enough from them recently I just don't like bothering them too much... and I really can only get there on Saturdays, so it's not convenient.

If you are not already a member, I suggest you join the Marantz Owner's Circle. You can sign up at http://us.marantz.com. Supposedly Marantz support staff do provide resources to this area that are not in any other forum.

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post #202 of 703 Old 07-22-2005, 09:45 AM
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buchinmj, my last comments were in response to a problem jdcohen mentioned. In contrast, I am happy with sub/bass output in my setup (SR8500). This goes for stereo, matrixed surround and discrete 5.1 channel input from a Yamaha DVD-S1500.

My understanding of the Mix/Both setting is that when you have large front speakers (e.g those that may have built-in powered subwoofers), you may chose to direct LFE and/or sound redirected from small speakers to a sub discretely or LFE+bass to both the sub and the large speakers. In systems that use small front speakers, one would typically not steer low frequencies or LFE to the small speakers so the unalterable setting of MIX possibly indicates that a mix of LFE and low bass is passed to the powered subwoofer. Although I could be wrong... According to the owner's manual, when you use the "Pure Direct" mode, the speakers are internally set to large and sub is set to on. However, PD mode does not engage the sub in the 8500.

I did have to boost the output on my subwoofer in order to improve SACD/DVD-Audio from my DVD player over the 7.1 channel inputs but this was due to a limitation in the DVD player rather than the Marantz.


OK. I have a question... Here's the background

I have a Marantz 8500 Receiver and a Marantz 7600 DVD player. Optical connection to 8500 for playing DVD's and also have individual AudioQuest cabling for all analog signals going from the 7600 into the 8500.

When I play an SACD I only get audio if set to Direct. OK that's fine but I get no standalone sub-woofer even though there is a connection for it from the 7600 to the 8500.

Speakers are set to large (They are DefTechs with subs in them). I also have a DefTech SuperCube Reference. Sub is set to ON but not mix mode.

Any hints on what I would need to do to get output from the SuperCube when I am playing SACD's?

EDIT: I've got a programmable remote so I can set up complex macros when I switch to SACD output.

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post #203 of 703 Old 07-22-2005, 10:24 AM
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OK. I have a question... Here's the background

I have a Marantz 8500 Receiver and a Marantz 7600 DVD player. Optical connection to 8500 for playing DVD's and also have individual AudioQuest cabling for all analog signals going from the 7600 into the 8500.

When I play an SACD I only get audio if set to Direct. OK that's fine but I get no standalone sub-woofer even though there is a connection for it from the 7600 to the 8500.

Speakers are set to large (They are DefTechs with subs in them). I also have a DefTech SuperCube Reference. Sub is set to ON but not mix mode.

Any hints on what I would need to do to get output from the SuperCube when I am playing SACD's?

EDIT: I've got a programmable remote so I can set up complex macros when I switch to SACD output.

I'm not too familiar with the 7600 DVD player but you do know that unless you are using a digital audio interface that is approved to transmit SACD (e.g. ilink) you will only be able to get full high-rez SACD over the 7.1 channel inputs to the SR8500 or a down-rez version over the RCA stereo input.

As for the bass/sub output problem, I assume that there is some bass management/redirection for SACD playback in the 7600? If so what are the settings? In the SR8500, if you are using the 7.1 channel inputs for multi-channel music playback, you can tweek the subwoofer output specifically for this.

You are using large speakers so a different setup to mine. What cross-over are you using in the SR8500? Have you tried 80Hz (the lowest freq.) and disabled any crossover on the SuperCube?

Finally, when you say "only get audio if set to direct" are you referring to the Pure Direct DSP mode on the SR8500 or a SACD Direct mode in the DVD player? On my DVD player (Yamaha DVD-S1500), a "SACD Direct" parameter setting bypasses the bass management on the DVD player completely. Note that the SR8500 disengages the subwoofer when using the Pure Direct mode. So if you are getting no output from your sub when the SR8500 is in Pure Direct mode, it is working correctly. However, depending on how your mains are configured, you should get the low frequencies in the SACD material from the large mains.

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post #204 of 703 Old 07-22-2005, 01:53 PM
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As for the bass/sub output problem, I assume that there is some bass management/redirection for SACD playback in the 7600? If so what are the settings? In the SR8500, if you are using the 7.1 channel inputs for multi-channel music playback, you can tweek the subwoofer output specifically for this.

There is no true bass management on the 7600 other than on/off and distance.


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You are using large speakers so a different setup to mine. What cross-over are you using in the SR8500? Have you tried 80Hz (the lowest freq.) and disabled any crossover on the SuperCube?

Crossover is set to 80HZ

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Finally, when you say "only get audio if set to direct" are you referring to the Pure Direct DSP mode on the SR8500 or a SACD Direct mode in the DVD player? On my DVD player (Yamaha DVD-S1500), a "SACD Direct" parameter setting bypasses the bass management on the DVD player completely. Note that the SR8500 disengages the subwoofer when using the Pure Direct mode. So if you are getting no output from your sub when the SR8500 is in Pure Direct mode, it is working correctly. However, depending on how your mains are configured, you should get the low frequencies in the SACD material from the large mains.

Well that hits the nail on the head in terms of re-stating my problem. Unless I set it to Pure Direct, I get no audio output

I do get sub output from the large mains.

There must be something I'm doing wrong in terms of routing or setup on the 8500.... Well I'm at the office and I can't go look until I get home. I'll start with reviewing the Input Setup screen again.

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post #205 of 703 Old 07-23-2005, 06:03 AM
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There must be something I'm doing wrong in terms of routing or setup on the 8500.... Well I'm at the office and I can't go look until I get home. I'll start with reviewing the Input Setup screen again.

I must confess. My problem was pure Pilot Error. The macro I had in the remote was going to the DVD setup so the only way I got audio was by selecting Pure Direct. Once I corrected it and selected analog input, all was good

:HeadSlap Smilie Goes Here:

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post #206 of 703 Old 07-23-2005, 06:31 AM
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Well I went and listend to the 5500 but I was unable to get it to play DD5.1 +DDIIX, the manual states that it is only available for 2ch sources. The salesman of course was clueless and stated he wasn't sure. I've emailed marantz and they said it was possibly but that they werent sure how you did it? That was pretty funny response from the company I thought...so my question, is there anybody out there that has a 5500/7500 that are using it for 7.1 with DD5.1 + DDIIX? I'm getting close to making a decision and it looks like I'm leaning towards the pioneer 1015 or the H/k 435. Thanks.

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post #207 of 703 Old 07-23-2005, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I went and listend to the 5500 but I was unable to get it to play DD5.1 +DDIIX, the manual states that it is only available for 2ch sources. The salesman of course was clueless and stated he wasn't sure. I've emailed marantz and they said it was possibly but that they werent sure how you did it? That was pretty funny response from the company I thought...so my question, is there anybody out there that has a 5500/7500 that are using it for 7.1 with DD5.1 + DDIIX? I'm getting close to making a decision and it looks like I'm leaning towards the pioneer 1015 or the H/k 435. Thanks.

That's crazy, it just shouldn't be! That's the whole point of PLIIx, that you can apply it to 5.1 digital sources. Otherwise, what's the point of having 7 speakers?

And all the competition can. If indeed this is the case, then Marantz really has a significant disadvantage.

In your speaker setup, do you have 1 or 2 speakers in your surround back speaker options? If you only specified 5 speakers, the PLIIx decoder will run as a PLII decoder and would not be applicable to 5.1 sources, there'd be no point.

On my 7400, all you do is press the "Dolby Double-D" button on the remote to cycle between "DOLBY D" and "DD+PLIIx" on the display when playing back DD 5.1 sources. You can't do this to DTS tracks though, it flashes "INCOMPATIBLE". On the 5500, I'd assume the SURROUND MODE button would do the same.

If my 7400 can do it, surely the 7500 can do it, and by association the 5500. It is, after all, a standard feature of the PLIIx deocder, see here:

Quote:


Pro Logic IIx is the first and only technology to expand any existing stereo- or 5.1-channel audio for a 6.1- or 7.1- channel playback, creating a seamless, natural surround soundfield that immerses you in the entertainment experience.

(emphasis by me)
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post #208 of 703 Old 07-23-2005, 03:38 PM
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Fraoch and cmexec

I want to thank you for your extensive replies to my 5500 questions. I appreciate you taking the time and offering your expertise. I will employ your suggestions and look for some favorable results!

Thanks again guys. Thanks for sharing.
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post #209 of 703 Old 07-23-2005, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Fraoch and cmexec

I want to thank you for your extensive replies to my 5500 questions. I appreciate you taking the time and offering your expertise. I will employ your suggestions and look for some favorable results!

Thanks again guys. Thanks for sharing.

By all means let us know if you get DD+PLIIx working on the 5500. It sure should work.
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post #210 of 703 Old 07-24-2005, 03:30 AM
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it works on mine
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