Denon 4806 HDMI output problem - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 47 Old 07-08-2005, 11:07 PM
Newbie
 
mw12650's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
:) I got my denon 4806 last week and I was hoping everything would work find. I got happy when my denon 3910 work perfect using the hdmi input, then the shock came when my SA hd 8300 dvr receiver from tw, the picture came in over hdmi input for a few second then went out. The message I got is your tv is not hdcp. I call denon and they said it was a time warner problem. Denon said they knew there was a problem with the 5805 but they fix that with a firmware upgrade. I call time warner, the person I spoken with knew there was a problem with the denon 5805 and now the 4806 when using the hdmi input to connect the hd 8300 receiver. He said there is a patch that Sceintifc Atlanta has that will take care the problem. The problem is when they get the patch is a differnt story. He did say some cities have receive the patch and some cities it may take months before they get the patch. I had the onkyo tx-nr1000 and got a refund because of the hdmi problems. The denon 4806 does work super with my denon 3910 dvd player and I think it's a better receiver than the onkyo. So I going to keep it and hope tw get there act together soon.
mw12650 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 47 Old 07-08-2005, 11:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 465
It is a Time Warner problem. Or more specifically an SA problem.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is online now  
post #33 of 47 Old 07-10-2005, 04:19 AM
Member
 
Kjelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have the european version (AVC-A11XV) of this amp and a Toshiba MT700 projector and also have some HDMI issues:

when I connect a HTPC and switch resolution the screen goes black. Luckily I found out that switching hinth and forth between inputs on the Denon fixes this but still it is a pain in the b***.

The other issue is with my Sony HXR710 DVD-harddisk recorder. It only outputs component but the A11XV should be able to properly upconvert to HDMI. Since the Toshiba only accepts progressive over HDMI I set the Sony at 575p (=625p). Then the Toshiba gets problems, 0,5 second picture and sound then 0,5 second purple/pink dithered picture then no picture (incompatible HDMI ), then 0,5 second picture again and so on. The cable is fine since component works, the HDMI cable is fine (HTPC works) but the upconversion is at fault.

Does anyone have an idea where to report these bugs so they will be taken into account for a firmware update?
Kjelt is offline  
post #34 of 47 Old 07-30-2005, 07:25 AM
Member
 
rbeaumon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pforsstrom
With the 3rd gen update. Doesn't that simply bring the Denon Link up to par with the already existing firewire (IEEE 1394) connection? Both now support all audio formats, right? What's the difference between the two?

Pete.
I am late to this thread, but one of the advantages of Denon Link with the DVD3910 as a source to the AVR4806 is that the analog outputs are enabled on the 3910 and with IEEE1394 they are not. The advantage of this is that you can play DVD on zone 2/3 via analog with Denon Link and can not with 1394. When I enquired with Denon tech support they stated it was a 1394 licensing issue that limits simultaneously playing analog. Not sure I buy that.
rbeaumon is offline  
post #35 of 47 Old 07-30-2005, 07:36 AM
Member
 
rbeaumon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw12650
:) I got my denon 4806 last week and I was hoping everything would work find. I got happy when my denon 3910 work perfect using the hdmi input, then the shock came when my SA hd 8300 dvr receiver from tw, the picture came in over hdmi input for a few second then went out. The message I got is your tv is not hdcp. I call denon and they said it was a time warner problem. Denon said they knew there was a problem with the 5805 but they fix that with a firmware upgrade. I call time warner, the person I spoken with knew there was a problem with the denon 5805 and now the 4806 when using the hdmi input to connect the hd 8300 receiver. He said there is a patch that Sceintifc Atlanta has that will take care the problem. The problem is when they get the patch is a differnt story. He did say some cities have receive the patch and some cities it may take months before they get the patch. I had the onkyo tx-nr1000 and got a refund because of the hdmi problems. The denon 4806 does work super with my denon 3910 dvd player and I think it's a better receiver than the onkyo. So I going to keep it and hope tw get there act together soon.

I have experienced the same with the Motorola DCT5100 HD STB from Comcast. Called Denon they said it is a known problem with Moto in that Moto is not full HDCP compliant. Called Comcast, yah right, then called Moto tech support and they said thay are fully HDCP compliant and FCC forces them to be --- so it "must" be a Denon issue. Arg.

I have escalate within Denon and was asked to leave an email Jim McGuinness at 'jmcguinness@denonnj.com'....... their North American product specialist. I would recommend we all send this feller an e-mail expressing our dissatisfaction and remind him that there are >60M cable subscribers in the US and I think Moto has 60% market share over Scientific Atlantic. Many of these are switching to HD and that is a hell of a big market to piss off.

If I do not get a satisfactory response from Jim on Monday or Tuesday, I will speak with my consumer dollars and Denon will get their 4806 and 3910 back and I will be reacquianted with my $4300.
rbeaumon is offline  
post #36 of 47 Old 07-30-2005, 07:42 AM
Member
 
rbeaumon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
In addition to the HDCP problem I have also found another. Because the I can not get DVI to work with the Moto STB, I am using Component into the 4806. When I change the volume on the 4806, either by remote or by nob on front panel, while the Component input is selected, I get a horizontal red interference line. The screen colors need to be right (not all black) to see this interference. If you adjust the volume twice in a row you do not see it the second time. If you wait 3-5 secs between adjustments you see it the second time. Anyway, not sure with this systemic or just a bad capacitor or something in my unit. Anyone else see something like this??
rbeaumon is offline  
post #37 of 47 Old 08-01-2005, 01:32 AM
Newbie
 
Lasol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had same problems with HDMI than many others. I have A11XV(4806) and 3910 connected thru HDMI cable. My projector(Sony HS50) didn't show picture when i used HDMI connection from dvd player to A11XV, and HDMI cable from A11XV to it. However it chanced resolution just like 3910, but all i saw was black... When i connected 3910 straight to projector, all was fine.

In my case, updating 3910 dvd players firmware to latest, with denon link3, solved the problem. Everything works fine and me happy, just slightly frustrated.
Lasol is offline  
post #38 of 47 Old 09-07-2005, 07:50 AM
Member
 
Kjelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had another problem similar to Lasol in the previous post.
This time with a Marantz 7600 connected through HDMI on the A11XV to the Toshiba MT700 (=Benq7700) projector.

No picture when you want it, it shows the correct resolution just no picture.

I solved it with the following remedy: first turn on dvd player with disc start play. Then turn on A11XV from standby to ON select DVD HDMI input.
Then wait and turn on projector. Then it works fine. When I do it in any other order it does not work :mad:
Even when I switch input later to HTPC on HDMI and switch back sometimes it doesn't work anymore.

Anyway talked to Denon Europe, and got a firmware update which resolves another bug: the amp can loose all it's settings when you switch back from standby to on and back to standby a couple of times :eek:
This actually happened to me earlier but thought it was something else causing this. Anyway if any of you have this happen, there is a remedy for it.
Kjelt is offline  
post #39 of 47 Old 10-04-2005, 02:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Tom Koegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm having similar HDMI problems with the Oppo digital player (whether connected to the DVI input or to an HDMI input by using a converting cable) and with the Motorola HD DVR from Comcast with an HDMI output. The Oppo player shows up with an entirely pink picture; can't get any picture out of the Comcast box. Analog works fine, but that's hardly the point of having digital switching, is it? ;)

How can I tell what firmware the Denon has? or what is the latest?
Tom Koegel is offline  
post #40 of 47 Old 10-04-2005, 05:56 AM
Member
 
rbeaumon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tom Koegel

I have the Denon AVR 4806 with the same problem working with the Motorola HD set top box provided by Comcast. I have had discussions with Jim McGuinness [jmcguinness@denonnj.com] the North American product support specialist for Denon who acknowledges an HDCP conflict between Denon and Motorola. Denon is standing a little high and mighty stating they are full HDCP compliant and Moto is not compliant. Such a purist position does not help Denon customers. Please see the following email from Jim:

"It sounds like an HDCP problem with the STB. I will copy this report
to our product manager. The AVR-5805 does have a firmware change
to widen the HDCP rules so that more video sources will pass without
a problem. We are reviewing this for the AVR-4806 to see if we need
to do it here as well. You can check back with us from time to time as
to status on this issue. We are aware of the forum threads on this as
well."

May I suggest you email Jim to reflect your displeasure and urge Denon to resolve the issue as it has been with the AVR5805.

Cheers,
Rob
rbeaumon is offline  
post #41 of 47 Old 10-04-2005, 08:40 AM
Member
 
monkmanusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi All,
I have recently received my 4806 (nice machine....but.....).
I have the 4806 connected to a Sony Cineza VPL-HS51 via HDMI.
I have a Scientific Atlanta HD DVR cable box supplied by Adelphia.
If I connect the cable box to the 4806 using the component video cables - the signal is fine (the picture is v good even with component!) and I can watch whatever in fine HD.
As soon as I try to connect the DVR to the 4806 via the HDMI output on the cable box (HDMI to HDMI input on the 4806) - then the problems start - I cannot get a signal to the Sony - it just keeps "clicking away" seems that it cannot acquire the signal correctly - rather than break the brand new projector with all this "clicking" - I went back to the component output from the DVR and I can once again watch stuff.
The real problem is that if I have the HDMI cable connected from the cable box to the 4806 AT ALL - even if I am trying to watch a DVD thru different inputs - the 4806 will not let me watch anything (i can "hear" the audio coming thri the HDMI cable from the cable box though - which is quite strange to say I've selected the DVD player as the input source!!).
Anyhow - I have read a number of different things....

1. See if there is a firmware upgrade for the cable box? Never done this before - any thoughts on where to go for it and how you install the software?
2. There has been mention of a firmware upgrade on the 4806 - is this available, if so how do I get it and then install it (I noticed the ethernet and other connecitons on the back of the 4806).
3. Anything else I can do? I specifically purchased this machine because of its HDMI connectivity as that is the route I want to go with all my components......
4. Just continue using component connections? Yuck!

Any thoughts/advice is appreciated.

Oppo OPDV971H, SA 8300HD, Denon AVR-4806, Sony VPL-HS51 PJ, Da-Lite 119" HCCV Contour
monkmanusa is offline  
post #42 of 47 Old 10-04-2005, 09:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Tom Koegel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Rob,

I have emailed Jim McGuinness. I certainly would hope that Denon would be more responsive about fixing its $3500 AVR than I expect Motorola would be about fixing zillions of its STBs. Mine is the DCT-6400 DVR version.

For anyone else reading, the DVI out problem with Oppo was solved by powering off and back on the Denon. It now seems to sync or pass or whatever it does the DVI video from the Oppo through the HDMI output correctly.

Tom
Tom Koegel is offline  
post #43 of 47 Old 10-06-2005, 08:25 AM
Member
 
monkmanusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry for the long post.....this is basically the details of everything I have done.....

Where I started:

I have the 4806 connected to a Sony VPL-HS51 via HDMI.
I have a Sony DVD connected via Component and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR connected into the 4806 via HDMI.

The settings on the 4806
HDMI/DVI in Assign - HDMI 1 - VDP (for the DVR)
Component in Assign - DVD - 1-RCA, (for the DVD)
Video convert Mode - Component - for Component 1
HDMI Out - HDMI Convert - On
HDMI Out - Color Space - YCbCr

On the Sony PJ the HDMI is the ONLY input on it, and I have set that so that it has a FIXED signal input of HDMI.

The two are connected by a 8M bettercables HDMI/HDMI cable.

Thats basically it.

Now the problem - and I ain't sure whether this is the 8300HD, the 4806 doing stuff, the PJ is out of whack (or even the cable?).

Basically I can be watching successfully and after a "variable" amount of time - the PJ will seem to lose its "connection" to the input signal - it will start to "click" as though it is trying to find the right signal. Granted - this tends to happen when I am using the DVR functions to watch something recorded. That is, I might be on the "menu" of recorded items, select something to watch and begin playing, then move back to the menu and then it will start to happen. The PJ will start to "click" the same as it does when initially acquiring a signal, I will occasionally get a "flicker" of the actual image that should be being displayed, or I will get an occasional "snow field". This will keep happening until I turn everything off - and start again.

Now the first thing I have to do is try and work out "where" the issue is.

This is my plan.
1. Remove the 4806 from the "video" equation by connecting the DVR directly to the projector thru HDMI (which I can do)
2. If I still get the problem - then it ain't the 4806.
3. If I still get the problem - try with a different HDMI cable (I have another one fortunately - though only 1M so will need to move my equipment)
4. If I still get the problem it ain't the cables.
5. I have no other "digital" input capabilities yet - will have to wait for the oppo to arrive so I can connect thru the DVI output of that beasty.
6. If I still get the same problem - then I know it is the projector
7. If I do not get the same problem - then I know it must be the DVR.


Subsequent Results:

Okay folks here is the scoop in terms of what I did.

I removed the 4806 from the setup and connected the DVR directly to the Sony PJ - worked perfectly - no video problems, stayed on the picture, excellent picture quality - everything was tremendous (I did leave the audio from the DVR connected to the 4806).
Put the 4806 back in and the problems started again. So it points me towards the 4806 as being a potential problem.
I checked online and got the technical manuals for the DVR and checked for the PJ - and both are claimed as being HDCP compliant.
I did find out that when you use the HDMI output on the DVR then the DVR will "test" the unit to which it is connected to ensure that it is HDCP compliant - and if it is NOT it will transmit a signal with an error message stating that the component is not HDCP compliant and that you should connect via Component.

And what do you know.....as soon as I switched everything on connected via HDMI I got a message on my monitor telling me that the unit to which the DVR was connected is NOT HDCP compliant.

Now when the DVR was connected directly to the PJ - it played perfectly (hence the PJ is HDCP compliant as far as the DVR is concerned), when I connected it to the 4806 - the DVR is convinced that the 4806 is NOT HDCP compliant.
Now THIS could be the reason that the DVR and 4806 are not talking to one another correctly AND therefore the PJ keeps "searching" for a signal when they are connected in this manner.

Therefore HELP? Where do I go, what do I do? I specifically purchased the 4806 due to its HDMI connectivity as I wanted to start to use that type of connection as my default.
I read earlier in the thread that there is a potential of a firmware upgrade - or there is a firmware upgrade as "Denon" are aware of a HDCP problem - did I read that right? They have done something for the 5805 - but not for the 4806 yes?

I am very frustrated - this is not what I expect from a high quality piece of equipment (first time I have ever delved into the higher priced echelons of AV equipment). Can someone point me in the right direction? How are customer service at Denon - I would expect something exemplary for a $3500 piece of equipment? For this price I would rather not have finger pointing Denon <-> SA - but rather have a fix!

Oppo OPDV971H, SA 8300HD, Denon AVR-4806, Sony VPL-HS51 PJ, Da-Lite 119" HCCV Contour
monkmanusa is offline  
post #44 of 47 Old 10-11-2005, 11:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
s2silber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pforsstrom
Just wanted to let all of you konw that there is no problem switching the HD TiVo via HDMI through the 4806. The switching problem is now isolated to the Comcast STB.
Pete
Whose HD Tivo?
s2silber is offline  
post #45 of 47 Old 10-11-2005, 02:03 PM
Member
 
monkmanusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Okay here goes on an Update.

Well after much ado - I decided to replace the cable as after my first set of issues after I was switching out the cable and putting it into other connections - I started getting no signal (or actually a part signal as the sony PJ I have was just "clicking away" and it seemed to have got "something"....but not quite sure what.

I also decided to purchase the Oppo DVD player to get a "premo" video signal (that little player is awesome BTW)

Anyhow contacted bettercables (whom I purchased the cable from) and asked if I could get a replacement - not a problem - they sent me one straight away and I returned my orginal (BTW bettercables customer service when I called them about this issue was exemplary and I would thoroughly recommend them).

Got the new cable - and hey presto - everything (except one thing) now is cool.

The Sony HS51 projector is connected via HDMI/HDMI to the Denon AVR4806.
The Oppo is connected from its DVI output to the DVI Input of the 4806
The 8300HD is connected via Component to the 4806 (and its set to output a fixed 1080i)

Everything works fine in the above scenario.
Now - if I change the output on the SA8300HD to utilize its HDMI link and output into one of the HDMI input ports on the 4806....then I get a message sent by the 8300HD stating that the "equipment to which it is attached is not HDCP compliant" and that I must used Component. If I connect the 8300HD directly to the Sony PJ - then no probs and I can watch my HD stuff from the 8300.

So the question is this,
Is this a HDCP problem with the 4806, or a problem with the 8300 or a problem with the Sony in that when connecting thru the 4806 does not manage to "talk" back to the 8300 such that the 8300 will send the right signal. This again points me to the 4806 as mybe it is not allowing the "passthru" communication of the projector back to the 8300.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcomed.

Oppo OPDV971H, SA 8300HD, Denon AVR-4806, Sony VPL-HS51 PJ, Da-Lite 119" HCCV Contour
monkmanusa is offline  
post #46 of 47 Old 10-11-2005, 02:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
s2silber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Denon says this is a problem involving not only its own HDMI switching receivers, but those of other companies as well. They say there's nothing they can do because the problem stems from the sources, not their AV receivers. They also say that the STB manufacturers have refused to address the problem. Somehow, I don't think they've tried very hard themselves to work out a solution. :mad:
s2silber is offline  
post #47 of 47 Old 10-13-2005, 05:20 AM
Senior Member
 
akbungle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Blaine, MN
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I just got the AVR 4806 yesterday and was afraid I would have issues since i have the OPPO DVI DVD player and my projector is not HDCP. I'm happy to report though that it works perfect. I also run HDMI from the Sony HDD250 HD dvr and DVI to HDMI from Samsung SIRTS360.
akbungle is offline  
Closed Thread Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off