The "Official" Denon AVR-4806 Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2715 Old 07-14-2005, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I just upgraded and hooked up the AVR-4806, and this reciever Is the best amp-pre-amp I've ever owend. Sound quality, features, HDMI upconversion...Awesome!! I just thought I'd make this "the" place where 4806 owners can go for all...

Video Games, 3D, and Home Theater Forever! ^_^

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post #2 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

I just upgraded and hooked up the AVR-4806, and this reciever Is the best amp-pre-amp I've ever owend. Sound quality, features, HDMI upconversion...Awesome!! I just thought I'd make this "the" place where 4806 owners can go for all...

I don't own one, but I'm interested in seeing what the opinions are
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post #3 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 05:33 AM
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This is what I wrote about it over at Audioholics:



I recently traded in my Denon 3805 to the new 4806. Hi-fi Buys has an awesome trade up system.

Anyway, the 4806 is an extremely large receiver, well not as big as the 5805, but a lot bigger and heavier than my 3805. But this is to fit all the extras into it. I never realized how large the transformer was on the 4806 until I got it home; I had only seen them in pictures on the web. The 3805's transformer pales in comparison to the 4806. I'm guessing that it's also used in the 5805. The 4806 also run very warm after being in use for a little while. You can feel a lot of heat rising out of the amp sections on either side of the receiver. Lets just say, if you have a small room, it will heat it up rather quickly.

When I got it home, making all the connections was easy. I'd be surprised if anyone could use all of them on the back. Next I went through the various on screen displays to setup my system. Set all the speakers to small, left the sub crossover at THX fixed which I am assuming is 80Hz, assigned the various digital inputs to the appropriate video input, etc. Let me tell you there are A LOT of options in this thing! I really like the option where you can rename the inputs. For Example, I renamed VCR-1 to XBOX, so it displays XBOX on the front panel when selected.

Instead of setting the receiver up manually with a SPL meter like I did with my 3805, I decided to try the Audyssey auto setup. I placed the mic on my camera tri-pod in the main listening position for the first test. Luckily, the Denon mic is included with the 4806. When you first run the Audyssey it sends out a series of test tones to determine what speakers you have hooked up. Next it will ask you to place the mic in the main listening position and repeats the test. You do this a total of 7 more times in 7 different locations based around the main listening point. After the 8 points are finished calculates the results and determines the channel levels, speaker size, EQ, crossover, and distance.

What I found when I ran this test is that it configured my left, right, and center speakers as large and my surrounds as small. I eventually went back and set them back to small The distances were pretty dead on, and so were the channel levels. I only needed to adjust a few channels within 0.5dB. I did find it odd that Audyssey had adjusted almost all of my channels to negative 3-5dB. Why would it adjust them all the channels to negative? Why not leave some at 0 and adjust them accordingly? The crossover was set to something weird like Center: 40Hz, Left and Right: 60Hz, and the LFE was set at 80Hz. What I did like though were the EQ's that Audyssey generated. The one that I think sounded the best was Flat. When I played movies through the 4806 with flat enabled, it made the speakers seem seamless. Audyssey isn't perfect but it does do a good job getting you going and makes it easier for you to tweak the system. One of these days I'm going to get a good setup DVD so that I can configure the EQ myself.

The 4806 can really push my Polk speakers now. I have the Rti10's floor standing, Csi5 center channel, and Fxi3 surround speakers. Before with the 3805, it seemed as if the Rti10's were missing some mid range, but with the 4806, the sound is much more full. I'm not sure if this is because of the amp itself or the settings that Audyssey gave me for the EQ. All I know is that they do sound better.

I tried some different movies to test out my new setup and some Halo 2. I watched a lot of the Superbit DVD movie Fifth Element because I think it makes full use of the receiver's capabilities. The sound effects and the music sound really great, I think there were a few things in the movie that I had never really heard before or other sounds where just more clear and detailed. My favorite part of the movie is the Opera house scene; the music was very detailed and not overly bright. It just sounded perfect like you were there. Shortly after you get into some good action scenes with gunfights and explosions, all which the 4806 handled without a problem. However, the test that really impressed me the most was Halo 2. This game makes VERY good use of Dolby Digital 5.1 with sound all around you throughout the entire game. The 5.1 can be very helpful when fighting as you can hear enemies sneaking up behind you or gunfire. At one point in the game I heard a voice behind me, and I almost turned around to see who was there because it sounded so real.

Overall, I really like the 4806. It's a beast, yet very flexible. It will take anything you through at it and output it with finesse. I might have to upgrade to the Polk Lsi series one day to match the amp. I think if someone is really into home theater this is a good receiver to consider.

If anyone has any tips, tricks, or suggestions about how to setup this amp or anything else, please let me know. Maybe we will have to start a AVR-4806 owners thread soon!

Oh, yeah, its still the same remote we all love.



NOTE: I ran the Audyssey setup again but this time I held the mic in my hand and pointed it to each speaker during the 8 tests. This produced a much better setup for my room, speakers set to small, distance, etc. The Audyssey EQ sounded REALLY nice too this time. I would recommend trying this method if you are not satisfied with the Aydssey results the first time.
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post #4 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice post, I'm using the Audyssey EQ setting, but now I'm going to try the "flat" setting to find out If Klipsch will sound better. And I would'nt recommend using the THX setting, my speakers sounded muffeled.

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post #5 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:16 AM
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The eight tests are for up to eight seating positions. I only care about my seating position so I skipped the other 4 available seats in the room. It sounded better that way.

I only wish I could see what MultEQ was actually doing. I live in Missouri "Show-Me"

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post #6 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Really? Only 1 position? Did you try more than one position, because the denon manual recommends at least 6 positions to get an "accurate" reading.

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post #7 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:38 AM
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I think Chris from Audyssey had some recommendations on how to get the best setup in the 5805 thread. I'll try to find out what he suggested. I think I remember something about taking a near field reading by holding the mic 1 foot from each speaker. I have my system setup with a Triad 7 channel in-ceiling system. The MultEQ works wonders for sound quality. It really clears up the mid-range and voices on music. I'm not a big fan of the THX settings so I mostly use PLIIx Cinema or music, depending on source. The video conversion feature is awsome as well. I will try to post some pics later. I have a silver unit, anyone else?
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post #8 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:53 AM
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What? Near field? Thats crazy. I put the mic in all five seats, just the three couch seats and just in my seat. Did I mention that I would like to know what MultEQ is doing and that 9 band on screen manual eq thingy sucks

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post #9 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 08:25 AM
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I bought the black unit myself. Where did you get your silver 4806 from? Was it a special order?
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post #10 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 08:36 AM
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The silver unit was not special order. My dealer said the current production run was silver and that's what came in. I was a bit worried about what the silver would look like but after unboxing the unit I have to say it is quite fetching. It is almost a perfect color match to my HD Tivo.
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post #11 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 09:23 AM
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Hey Tom, don't know where I heard the near field measurement thing but after some research Chris from Audyssey doesn't mention it and I am thinking it is probably a bad idea. I have attached some quotes from Chris from the 5805 thread.

"On the microphone: Although we have implemented a correction curve for the mic type supplied by Denon, there is still variation from mic to mic. One technique that I found useful is to hold the mic in my hand and point it to each speaker being measured. Be careful not to cover any part of the front of the mic as that would decrease the captured high frequencies and tell the filters to create a boost there. Also, the absolute worst thing to do is to put the mic on the couch during measurement as that causes reflections from the back of the couch to be included in the measurements.

Yes, the mic capsule is omni, but it is enclosed in a hockey puck. So what I meant was to point the puck at each speaker with your hand carefully behind the mic. The best way is to mount it on a tripod so as to avoid handling noise by your hand.

As for placement, definitely not 8 positions close together. That will give the least benefit. The spreading depends on your seating arrangement. Typically, you would perform three on the main couch spread out every 2-3 feet, then maybe 1-2 on any side seats. We also recommend doing at least one measurement at a height above the ears in the vicinity of the main position. For electrostatic speakers we recommend splitting the measurements at two different heights to account for the vertical directivity characteristics of those speakers.

If the stand has a reasonably long arm this is not a problem. Also, if you end up having to hold the mic, just make sure your body is to the side of it and your arm is extended. The only time reflections would interfere is if you sit and hold the mic in front of you.

--Curve selection:

Audyssey recommends using the "Audyssey" curve for nearly all home theater listening situations. In the rare case of the listener seated very close to the speakers (e.g. a mixer or a person in front of computer speakers), one should try the flat curve as there would theoretically be no need for a high frequency roll-off.

--Microphone placement:

There is no "you" and "they". We wrote the sections of the manual that pertain to MultEQ. The standard recommendation is to point the mic at the ceiling as that is the way it was calibrated. Recently, I have been suggesting that people try pointing it to the speakers. This was intended to address the issue that some people were having with brightness. Although the correction curve created for the microphones (pointing up) should cover the majority of these mics, it is possible that a few are made outside the tolerances.

Please try it the right way first: point up

--"On the couch"

By "on the couch" I meant actually placing the microphone on the seat. Don't do that unless you plan to calibrate for your lower extremities. The mic should be placed on a stand or in your hand in the location of your ears while seated on the couch or chair.

--Mic spacing

At Denon's request we created a couple of diagrams that show the recommended spacings for the mic. What is important is that the first location is exactly at the listening position as that is where the delays are calculated from. After that, the exact placement is not as critical. What is critical is to cover a wide area. The definition of that will depend on the furniture arrangement. In a typical L-shaped couch arrangement take 3-4 on the main couch (approx. centered on each couch seat), 2-3 on the love seat, and 1-2 in front of them.

Taking a closely-spaced cluster of measurements 1 foot around the main listening position will not give results that are as good as the widely spaced measurements even for the main listening position."
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post #12 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Does It matter what mic Is used? Has anyone used the yamaha mic for calibrating with denon?

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post #13 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 10:38 AM
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StOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys are gonna make me wanna upgrade, and I don't have the money!!!
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post #14 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 12:19 PM
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I got a 4806 last night, but I am still many hours away from more comments. So far I have basically got it wired, have the DL3 active with my 3910, and an HD Tivo as my second source. Haven't hooked up video switching yet, nor have I done any calibration.

So far it's terrific, and the DL3 sure takes a lot of wires off the back of the rack.

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post #15 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

Does It matter what mic Is used? Has anyone used the yamaha mic for calibrating with denon?


Yes it matters what mic you use.
Do NOT use a different mic other than that provided because the program is calibrated to the denon mic.
You will (should) get bad results if you use a different mic.
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post #16 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll stick with the denon Mic thanks.

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post #17 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW, I calibrated only three positions instead of eight, and set the eg to "Flat". Night and day difference. My speakers sound so much smoother. This thread has already benefited me, and I hope It continues to benefit others !

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post #18 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 07:32 PM
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Guys

Will the 4806 handle more than one sub?

thanks

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post #19 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 08:33 PM
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Quote:


Will the 4806 handle more than one sub?

Unfortunetly no. That is why I hope Denon will release a 5805 as a Pre/Pro which can do 3 Subs.
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post #20 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 08:59 PM
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Too bad...

Thanks you, Spizz

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post #21 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, I have 3 sub's and a buttkicker amp hooked up with the sub out, and the all sound wonderful. There's enough signal to split It up.

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post #22 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 10:28 PM
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Quote:


Did I mention that I would like to know what MultEQ is doing and that 9 band on screen manual eq thingy sucks

Velodyne

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #23 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 10:29 PM
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I'm sure that's true...I have two subs with my 3803...

However the 5805 will assign multiple subs different portions of the bass signal, depending on how you want it split up...

Stereo subs plus LFE, etc.

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post #24 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I know, I just can't see how It's absolutely nessesary to have multiple sub outs since bass Is non-directional anyway.

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post #25 of 2715 Old 07-15-2005, 10:46 PM
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" Will the 4806 handle more than one sub?

Unfortunetly no. "

I don't see that as a disadvantage. Per the Harman white paper "Subwoofers: Optimum Number and Locations" here

http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=1003

proper location of multiple subs fed a mono signal can greatly improve response by mode cancellation and/or nonexcitation.

Noah
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post #26 of 2715 Old 07-16-2005, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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So my sound settings are pretty set now, but now I have a few questions on the video portion. I'm using the HDMI output to my Hitachi 65XWX20 with the HDMI to DVI adapter. Should I use the YCrCb, or the RGB output of the 4806. Thanks

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post #27 of 2715 Old 07-16-2005, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

" Will the 4806 handle more than one sub?

Unfortunetly no. "

I don't see that as a disadvantage. Per the Harman white paper "Subwoofers: Optimum Number and Locations" here

http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=1003

proper location of multiple subs fed a mono signal can greatly improve response by mode cancellation and/or nonexcitation.

I'll check out that link Noah...thanks.

I'm interested in non-mono signals, eg LFE vs low frequency from main channels.

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post #28 of 2715 Old 07-16-2005, 06:52 PM
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One observation I have is that when you combine HDMI video switching with a D-Link connection and add in all the possible "switch" settings for the various combinations of inputs, outputs, formats and processing options, this is an order of magnitude more complicated in the setup.

Just connecting my 4806 with a Sony HD CRT, a Denon 3910, and an HDTivo I couldn't get the sound to work right or the right formats to appear on the screen. Turns out 100% of the issues were attributable to incorrect settings. Really simple once you get a handle on it, but lots of layers and choices.

So far everything works as advertised. This receiver is phenomenally capable. Even a purist might want one as a pre-pro, but the vast majority of applications would be well served with just the receiver.

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post #29 of 2715 Old 07-16-2005, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I use mine as just a pre-pro, and It does wonders for my system.

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post #30 of 2715 Old 07-16-2005, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyabusha View Post

I use mine as just a pre-pro, and It does wonders for my system.

What amp(s) are you using?

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