Bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi today - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avaholic View Post

Nate,

That Midbass hump lives in just about all consumer speakers High end or not!!!
No I'm not 18! I just get a little upset when people come in here less than 1 week old to this forum and claim they know it all, and expect we should believe them. Sorry my fried it does NOT work that way!!!

I have used the word "High" twice! And I deleted the last one before you even posted your last post. Before you pass judgement on me and my age, my don't you read some through of my almost 2000 posts over the past 3-4 years here and see just how respectful I have been will almost every post! Again I just have trouble with posters such as yourself. Show me a little credibility before you go spouting off please!!!!!

I don't end almost every post with best regards because I'm 18!

Ask around, and you soon find out there must have been a reason for me losing my cool! Which by the way I apologize for. But most of my stance with regards to this argument stands!

Best Regrads,
Patrick

I don't care how many posts you have you're posting erroneous information. I've been a recording engineer for 27 years and if you think I'm a newbie when it comes to matters of acoustics well you go right ahead and think that. If you also think that all speakers have a mid bass bump to give a perception of of a deeper bass output well you go right ahead. There are also rooms where room gain and boundary effects have been tamed to not exacerbate these issues.
Now that you've cut down on calling people high you might want to diminish the use of exclamation marks if you want to be taken seriously.
Not sure how signing best regrads (sic) would make you appear to be older than 18 either.
Most of your stance doesn't stand it's just plain wrong. And sorry I don't have time to "ask around" about you nor do I have the slightest interest.
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post #182 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:12 PM
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I was ready to get the 74txvi but if there will be a 76txvi I will wait. Would the 76/79 be annouced at CEDIA?

Also I thought this thread was very helpful till today. I think the war of words is getting old no matter who is right or wrong just move on.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #183 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Sr. View Post

I don't care how many posts you have you're posting erroneous information.
Most of your stance doesn't stand it's just plain wrong. And sorry I don't have time to "ask around" about you nor do I have the slightest interest.

How am I posting erroneous information? What have I said that you know as "law" and is not true? I never said the 74TXVi has digital amps, though you claim I did! I never said ALL speakers have a midbass hump, I said most. Please stop mis-quoting me!

Again, for future reference if you come across as a little less of a "know it all" you will be much better received here. It's one thing to be smart, it's another to be arrogant!

Keep posting the way you are and you won't have to ask around about me, you'll figure it out when you go on some ignore lists. Are you always this pleasant to deal with? I'm betting Bob and I just touched some nerves, kind of like you touched mine. It happens, I try to avoid it whenever possible (especially with my kids), but obviously I let it get out of control myself in this case. Luckily I'm big enough to admit it and apologize.

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #184 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:21 PM
 
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Can I settle this for you once and for all?

I know for a fact that the new Elite doesn't use any linear amps at all. Nor does it use digital. It is a new technology that Pioneer just acquired from two galaxies away and it uses the 3rd cusin removed of the dark side. That's how it shaved off 15 lbs, or so.

Just trust me on this. What? you want to have facts? Well, I cannot tell you now. I have a nda with Pioneer and the dark side on that. I am not telling you for your own good. OK?

As if that sounded very cridible,

Quote:
also my room is treated to about as close to perfection as any room can get.

How can you make such a statement? How many rooms have you seen? If you haven't seen all the rooms in the world, how can you tell that your room among the best?

Isn't that simple logic?
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post #185 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avaholic View Post

How am I posting erroneous information? What have I said that you know as "law" and is not true? I never said the 74TXVi has digital amps, though you claim I did! i never said ALL speakers have a midbass hump, I said most. Please stop mis-quoting me!

Again, for future reference if you come across as a little less of a "know it all" you will be much better received here. It's one thing to be smart, it's another to be arrogant!

Keep posting the way you are and you won't have to ask around about me, you'll figure it out when you go on some ignore lists. Are you always this pleasant to deal with? I'm betting Bob and I just touched some nerves, kind of like you touched mine.

Best Regards,
Patrick


It's rather impossible to touch a nerve with me I assure you. Anyways you will soon see I was right. You should try to stay calmer it makes the hobby ever so much more enjoyable.
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post #186 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nate Sr. View Post

Anyways you will soon see I was right.

that may very well be true. But that's beside the point. People aren't disputing your statements. Instead, they are asking if you can back it up.

If indeed you cannot tell anything because of some obligations that cannot be disclosed in public at this point, you should really keep it to yourself. Because what you are doing amounts to breach of that obligation, which can really put you in a poddle of really hot water.
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post #187 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millwood View Post

Can I settle this for you once and for all?

I know for a fact that the new Elite doesn't use any linear amps at all. Nor does it use digital. It is a new technology that Pioneer just acquired from two galaxies away and it uses the 3rd cusin removed of the dark side. That's how it shaved off 15 lbs, or so.

Just trust me on this. What? you want to have facts? Well, I cannot tell you now. I have a nda with Pioneer and the dark side on that. I am not telling you for your own good. OK?

LOL!

Thanks for the levity millwood! Helped brighten my day!

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #188 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Sr. View Post

MCACC and as a matter of fact any of the EQ systems currently in use completely collapse the soundstage and do far more bad than good. That being said the amps used in the 74 have an easily discernable difference in sound from the 56 itself not a particularly great sounding receiver. Both are also not overly good when used as a pre/pro UNLESS movies are by a large margin your priority.
And no I am not "high".

Nate,

Do you have the same opinion on Audyssey MultEQ XT on 4806/5805? Just for curiosity....
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post #189 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:30 PM
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It seems he does (though he mis-spelled it, I'm pretty sure he meant Audyssey):
"And oh yes the "vast majority" of friends and colleagues of mine, all owning extremely high end dear all share the same opinion of Audisset, YPAO and MCACC"

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post #190 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Sr. View Post

I don't care how many posts you have you're posting erroneous information.

Just so I know may I ask what the "erroneous information" was that I posted.

"How am I posting erroneous information? What have I said that you know as "law" and is not true? I never said the 74TXVi has digital amps, though you claim I did! I never said ALL speakers have a midbass hump, I said most consumer speakers including high end."

Thanks,
Patrick

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post #191 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jheoaustin View Post

Nate,

Do you have the same opinion on Audyssey MultEQ XT on 4806/5805? Just for curiosity....

Yes. It's probably the least destructive but still has major issues.
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post #192 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 01:54 PM
 
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I hope you are able to share with us, nate, exactly what those issues are this time?
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post #193 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

You two should get a room

Monty, Have you figured out the HDMI issue?
Any luck getting the 74 to pass HDMI video, does it pass the audio with no video, or neither?

dc

Anyway, I took the day off due to having some contractors at the house and got to waste the last 8 hours of my life trying to get the 74 to pass HDMI to no avail. I am able to successfully connect both my 59AVi player via HDMI and a Comcast Digital/HD cable box via HDMI-DVI to my projector with perfect results, and I can connect the 59AVi via HDMI to the receiver and get audio only and the HDMI indicator illuminates properly. I can also connect the Comcast box via HDMI-DVI without the HDMI indicator flashing on/off. But I cannot get the receiver and the projector to work together.

I called Pioneer's help line and although the rep tried to be helpful as best he could, he was as stuck as I was as to why it won't pass HDMI.

I've tried every combination of components and cords, but I just can't get it to pass HDMI video through the receiver.

I'm very disappointed at this point and starting to wonder if I should have kept the 56TXi. Despite previous comments by others, I have found the new MCACC to be an improvement over an already competent receiver. Since I only use it as a pre/pro I can't really comment on the amp section, but it does do an impressive job with HT and from what I've listened to so far, an equally impressive job siwth SACD and DVD-A (as well as CD). The improvements in imaging and bass response is significantly noticeable between the two. It's just that the HDMI switching and conversion was the key feature that got me excited about "upgrading".

I'm to the point where I want to bring it in to the store and see if they'll let me connect it to a player and a monitor just to see if it's a problem with my receivers output or some kind of incompatibility between the receiver and the projector - which I think are the only two possible causes at this point. Either that, or see if they'll let me return it and try another 74.
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post #194 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty Williams View Post

I'm to the point where I want to bring it in to the store and see if they'll let me connect it to a player and a monitor just to see if it's a problem with my receivers output or some kind of incompatibility between the receiver and the projector - which I think are the only two possible causes at this point. Either that, or see if they'll let me return it and try another 74.

Monty:

Please do keep us posted as to what your end result is with the HDMI issue. I've had both the Sony HS-51 projector and the Elite 74TXVi on my wishlist for my upcoming theater room. I was veeeeeeery close to starting to pull out the old credit card and start buying, but your HDMI woes have me suddenly a little gunshy.
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post #195 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 02:40 PM
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I'm going to post an actual question about this receiver, so maybe there can be a little less my Dad is stronger than you Dad arguing here.

Monty reported having trouble with HDCP compliance on the HDMI connection. He was able to get no picture on his projector when using the receivers HDMI switching. Has anyone else used the HDMI switching of this receiver? This is a relatively new area in receivers. I'm worried that this HDMI switching is going to open a whole new can of worms. Will we have to look up lists of which DVD players work with which Receiver, and so on, and so on. I want to get this particular receiver, and use it to switch between a DV 59 AVI and Expressvu 9200 Sat receiver. Will I have to worry about getting a picture on my Optoma H78 PJ? What will Monty have to do if it turns out that his particular group of components won't work through that receiver? What will I do if I have that problem?

This whole HDMI and HDCP thing is quite problematic. The studios and their desire for such strict copy protection is making it almost impossible to have universal compatibility between components. We as consumers are then stuck with a group of components that won't work with one another, and will likely have each company blaming the other for any incompatibility problems.
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post #196 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty Williams View Post

Anyway, I took the day off due to having some contractors at the house and got to waste the last 8 hours of my life trying to get the 74 to pass HDMI to no avail. I am able to successfully connect both my 59AVi player via HDMI and a Comcast Digital/HD cable box via HDMI-DVI to my projector with perfect results, and I can connect the 59AVi via HDMI and the Comcast box via HDMI-DVI to the receiver and get audio only without the HDMI indicator flashing on/off. But I cannot get the receiver and the projector to work together.

Monty,

Is there some type of selection on the 74TXVi for which Video monitor output it's using?
Maybe it defaults to the component out or the S-VHS output. Check your settings. I seem to remember a similar problem when I first tried to get component video to go through my 56TXi, and it ended up being a setting in the menu.

BR,
Patrick

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post #197 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 03:18 PM
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"If indeed you cannot tell anything because of some obligations that cannot be disclosed in public at this point, you should really keep it to yourself."

What fun would that be?

It's done all the time, just check the pj forum for loads of hints and rumours from people who can't say more than they do.

Noah
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post #198 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millwood View Post

I hope you are able to share with us, nate, exactly what those issues are this time?

Of course, he can't. He has already said that he is honoring a commitment to not discuss the product until its official launch. Then again, that did not prevent him from using this apparent "special" knowledge to denigrate this same piece of equipment in a public forum. So, he either knows nothing and is making it up or he knows a lot and, in spite of his promise, he has chosen to not only discuss but to "review" and deride the gear anyways.

I am also puzzled why someone with such high audio standards even chose to touch down on a thread about something so beneath him and his friends. Surely he is looking for the high-end discussions.

Until I have the opportunity to hear it for myself, I am going with the impressions of those who will offer documented comments (like Monty and, hopefully, Uzun). Even if he is 100% right about the product's performance, the lack of even a description of how the sound is now inferior offers no value to this or any other discussion.

I voiced my concern about this product when the MSRP was announced in the Ultimate AV article, so I do believe there could be some truth to a lower build quality and, possibly, even performance. But I also think that "Nate" just woke up this morning lonely and in need of some extra attention and that he is already conjuring up his next online persona.

Anyway, let's get back to the discussion of the product. Hopefully, DocDVD and M Code can share some insight into Pioneer's direction with these new receivers.

Bob

EDITED to add:

I do believe this is typical of Pioneer's ineffective marketing. There is still no formal launch and no information on Pioneer's website for a product which is already in the channel. If Nate's claims are true, then pioneer gets to react to what is being said rather than getting in front of the potential bad press. heck, and this one is easy: "These new receivers cost more to attain the same level of performance but also bring exciting new features to our products....blah, blah, blah."
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post #199 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

What fun would that be?

Less fun, but more honorable.

The answers about many things are hiding in plain sight, which is the reason it is so easy for all of us who are not privy to the secrets to speculate so readily.

Bob
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post #200 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avaholic View Post

Monty,

Is there some type of selection on the 74TXVi for which Video monitor output it's using?
Maybe it defaults to the component out or the S-VHS output. Check your settings. I seem to remember a similar problem when I first tried to get component video to go through my 56TXi, and it ended up being a setting in the menu.

BR,
Patrick


Nope no video out settings to select. According to the manual , all video goes through all the monitor outs, the only exception is that if you use HDMI or HD-component, you have to use HDMI out (GGOD LUCK! IF YOU CAN FRIGGING GET IT TO WORK) or component out, respectively, becuase those 2 input types cannot be down-sampled.
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post #201 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 04:38 PM
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Does anyone with the Denon 5806 or 4806 have the same problems with HDMI?

I think that Denon's implementation is also at 1.1 on receivers and 1.0 on players. Perhaps, someone with a similar setup to Monty's PJ and one of these receivers can provide a clue. If all three receivers (Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer) fail to pass the video through the receiver, then HDMI handshake would seem to be the culprit.

Bob
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post #202 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 04:54 PM
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4806 works as advertised

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #203 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 05:03 PM
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Interesting about the prospect of the "new 76TXVi and 79TXVi".
My dealer contact, says Pioneer is saying there will be no 76TXVi only a 79TXVi flagship. Wonder where Nate got his info?
Also, my contact is saying if indeed there is a Pioneer problem with HDMI, Pioneer is saying they will issue a firmware upgrade.

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post #204 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 05:03 PM
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Tom-

Are you in and out from HDMI 1.0 devices or 1.1?

Bob
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post #205 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 05:07 PM
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Patrick-

Does Uzun have a 59avi? What is his display? I wonder if he is up-and-running yet? It would be mighty nice if we could help Monty figure this out as a way of saying thanks for his early impressions of the 74TXvi.

Bob
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post #206 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 05:16 PM
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Monty,
I am also following your plight as I have ordered a 74 to come in next Tuesday (Magnolia). The HDMI pass-through is also mighty important to me.
Frankly, I would take it right back for a replacement; seems the easiest next thing to do after all the troubleshooting you've gone through.

Let me ask you this - do you see the OSM through HDMI ? In other words, forget pass-through. Can you get anything to display that's generated by the receiver, such as the setup screens ? (Yamaha 4600 doesn't send it throguh HDMI but the 74 should).

Does any sounds pass through ?

If that's a no, I would guess (or frankly, hope) the units HDMI is defective in some way. Happened to me with displays before.

By the way, how many optical & coax digitial audio outs and ins does it have ?

Best,
Dan

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Originally Posted by Monty Williams View Post

Nope no video out settings to select. According to the manual , all video goes through all the monitor outs, the only exception is that if you use HDMI or HD-component, you have to use HDMI out (GGOD LUCK! IF YOU CAN FRIGGING GET IT TO WORK) or component out, respectively, becuase those 2 input types cannot be down-sampled.

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post #207 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I can't get any type of video whatsoever to pass or come from the receiver, not the 59AVi via HDMI, not Comcast Digital/HD via HDMI-DVI, and not even the receiver's own OSD via HDMI. Everything works perfectly with component video, but it also did with the 56TXi I "upgraded" from.

The 59AVi via HDMI and the Comcast STB via HDMI-DVI all work perfectly when connected directly to the HS51 projector. And both the 59AVi and the Comcast STB will pass audio, even multichannel DD5.1 and DTS 5.1 through HDMI to the receiver with no problems, but as soon as I plug in the HDMI monitor out cable to my HS51 everything stops and the HDMI indicator starts blinking.

Maybe I've been lucky, but this is the first a/v component in 20 years that I've ever owned that did not work perfectly. The vast majority of the time I am able to get a new component up and running perfectly without even using the manual, as I am sure most guys here are. After awhile things become intuitive, especially if you stick with a specific brand. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I know I could leave my Bryston's turned on for years and they'd operate good as new, same with my M&K's. I guess that's what I get for buying something brand new - I get to be the guinea pig/beta tester. It just pisses me off that there's the caveat in the manual that says even though all the components are HDCP compliant they still might not work together. That's just frigging fantastic and really consumer friendly. Let's ask $1500 for a receiver, $1000+ for a universal player, and $3500+ for a projector but if they don't all get along, sorry. Good thing I didn't buy the Qualia...

I'm packing up the receiver tomorrow and taking it back and request that we test it with a 59AVi and an HDMI monitor. I don't think the MiniMag has in projectors, but they have some Pioneer Elite plasma's. I'm sure they'll all work together though...If you can't tell, I'm frustrated, I've had a couple of cocktails and I'm venting...

Dosers, 4 optical in's 2 optical outs, 2 digital coax in.
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post #208 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
but as soon as I plug in the HDMI monitor out cable to my HS51 everything stops and the HDMI indicator starts blinking.

Monty-

Do you get OSD on the HDMI-out with no HDMI source connected or does the light flash with no sources connected and only the HDMI monitor-out? It could be an incompatibility between your PJ and the receiver but it sounds like it might be a bad HDMI port.

Bob
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post #209 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 07:13 PM
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Monty,
good luck tomorrow in the store. And let us know!
I feel your pain, and as 'thankful' as I am that you are reporting all this, I completely realize hor frustrating it is. I have had things like this happen a lot (lot less luck than you apparently).
I really don't see how HDCP could play a role in simply displaying the OSD on the PJ, but then again, if the initial handshake fails.... Let's hope it's just a bad HDMI port and a replacement will take care of it.

Again, good luck. I gather no-one else on the board had got / hooked up their unit via HDMI yet?
I'll be happy to report on mine when it arrives, but a new TV I ordered is another 2 1/2 weeks out. My current set only does component which according to Monty seems to work....

Best,
Dan
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post #210 of 2114 Old 08-19-2005, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avaholic View Post

My dealer contact, says Pioneer is saying there will be no 76TXVi only a 79TXVi flagship. Wonder where Nate got his info?

the dealer information i have received from a friend indicates no 76, as well as an upcoming 79 flagship. (i've seen the pioneer docs myself)
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