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post #2491 of 4117 Old 06-05-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rombryo
The LFE is set to crossover @ 120hz and the other 5 speakers are set @ 80hz LFE + Main. Unless I'm mistaken this would enable the sub @ 120hz and below and the rest of the speakers would be full range down to 80hz then over to the sub.


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Originally Posted by shamus1099 View Post

Im not really sure how this works... Ive went back and forth with the sub crossover and cant tell a difference either way. It may only work with speakers set to large?

If set to LFE+MAIN, then the 5 speakers will receive all the full range - regardless of crossover setting - and the sub will receive everything below the crossover setting (in this case 80) *and* the LFE. In addition, with the LFE set to 120, all LFE information above 120 will be cut (go nowhere).

So, in this case, the 5 speakers will be getting audio content (example) 20hz - 20Khz. The sub will be getting everything below 80hz (this will also go to the 5 speakers, too) for audio content. And, the sub will ONLY get LFE information below 120hz.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #2492 of 4117 Old 06-05-2007, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Originally Posted by Rombryo
The LFE is set to crossover @ 120hz and the other 5 speakers are set @ 80hz LFE + Main. Unless I'm mistaken this would enable the sub @ 120hz and below and the rest of the speakers would be full range down to 80hz then over to the sub.




If set to LFE+MAIN, then the 5 speakers will receive all the full range - regardless of crossover setting - and the sub will receive everything below the crossover setting (in this case 80) *and* the LFE. In addition, with the LFE set to 120, all LFE information above 120 will be cut (go nowhere).

So, in this case, the 5 speakers will be getting audio content (example) 20hz - 20Khz. The sub will be getting everything below 80hz (this will also go to the 5 speakers, too) for audio content. And, the sub will ONLY get LFE information below 120hz.




I'm not sure I agree with that but I could be wrong. There's 4 variables here that are all inter-related. There's probably a couple of different ways to come to the same conclusion.

1. LFE or LFE + Main
2. Crossover SW
3. Crossover Speakers
4. Small or Large

I'm not sure why you think the crossover settings for the speakers are over-ridden once you set to LFE + Main? According to page 59 of the manual (lower right hand side) If LFE + Main is set frequencies can be selected regardless of speaker size.

I'm pretty sure my assumptions were correct. My speakers play from 20khz to 80hz then pass the torch over to the sub. The sub plays from 120 hz down. LFE above 120 are passed to the speakers (not sure about this part).

What say you all?
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post #2493 of 4117 Old 06-05-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rombryo View Post

I'm not sure I agree with that but I could be wrong. There's 4 variables here that are all inter-related. There's probably a couple of different ways to come to the same conclusion.

1. LFE or LFE + Main
2. Crossover SW
3. Crossover Speakers
4. Small or Large

I'm not sure why you think the crossover settings for the speakers are over-ridden once you set to LFE + Main? According to page 59 of the manual (lower right hand side) If LFE + Main is set frequencies can be selected regardless of speaker size.

I'm pretty sure my assumptions were correct. My speakers play from 20khz to 80hz then pass the torch over to the sub. The sub plays from 120 hz down. LFE above 120 are passed to the speakers (not sure about this part).

What say you all?

I may have not articulated it properly. I'd didn't mean to imply that any settings are overridden. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

What you reference on p.59 is correct, but not what I was saying. Hold that thought.

See P.57, left column... the bullet point at the bottom of the column. It talks about your speaker's ability to reproduce frequencies below the set crossover point. Because, if you select LFE+MAIN, then those frequencies below the crossover point will be played through the channel speaker. You really need FULL RANGE speakers if you are doing this.

Now look on p.57, center column.

-LFE: If speaker set to large, then full range e.g. 20-20k will play from that channel's speaker. No lower freq's will be "crossed" to the SW. ONLY the LFE will play from the SW. IF speaker set to small, then freq's above crossover are played from that channels speaker. Freq's at/below the crossover, for that channel *and* LFE are directed to SW.

- LFE+MAIN: For channels set to large, low frequencies are sent to both the channel speaker *and* the SW. LFE is *always* sent to the SW. This means that the full range e.g. 20-20k will play through the channel speaker, with NO cutoff at/below crossover. Nothing is overridden. The crossover point is used to determine at which point the low frequencies will ALSO be sent to the SW.

The actual LFE signal is always played through the SW, regardless.

The difference in the two modes is if you play everything (20-20k) through the channel speakers only, with no lower freq's going to the SW [unless speakers set to small] (LFE Mode).

Or, if you play everything (20-20k) through the channel, and *also* send the lower freq's at/below crossover to SW [regardless of speakers set to large or small... your p.59 reference] (LFE+MAIN Mode).

Below that (the middle of the 3 bullet points) describes what happens in LFE+MAIN configuration. Your speakers will play the full range, 20-20k, example... *and* the low frequencies (at/below the crossover setting) will also be played from the SW.

So, if your speakers are set to large, and you are in LFE+MAIN mode, your speakers are playing full range 20-20k, and freq's at/below 80 are *also* going to the SW. This is what they are referencing on p.59

If your speakers are set to small, then you are playing 80-20k through them, and everything at/below 80 is going to the SW.

Even though you may be able to select both LFE+MAIN and have your speakers set to small, the small setting will direct *all* lower freqs to the sw. They will not play from any channel set to small. That is why SW is automatically set to YES, whenever small is selected.

Confusing as hell, and a poorly written manual, huh???? I hope I din't make things worse. It's getting late, and we had a few glasses of wine with dinner

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #2494 of 4117 Old 06-05-2007, 07:03 PM
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I like my Denon but the manual is the worst I have ever seen!

Denon 4520ci, 3 JBL 2360As/EV DHA-1s, 3 1/4 Pie bass bins, MiniDSP 2x4s, 4 Klipsch HIPs, 2 Klipsch KP3002s, PS3, XBox 360, 3 Intel NUCs, Monoprice Redmere, Monster HTPS7000, 2 SUPER SPUD subs, Panasonic AE8000u, 2 Danley DTS10 subs, & Yamaha P7000s.
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post #2495 of 4117 Old 06-06-2007, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Even though you may be able to select both LFE+MAIN and have your speakers set to small, the small setting will direct *all* lower freqs to the sw. They will not play from any channel set to small. That is why SW is automatically set to YES, whenever small is selected.

Confusing as hell, and a poorly written manual, huh???? I hope I din't make things worse. It's getting late, and we had a few glasses of wine with dinner

I may have to disagree with this statement. Initially I had my speakers (Monitor Audio RS6) set to small and I had my setup as LFE+Main. The crossover for the speakers was 40Hz and 80Hz for the sub. When I ran REW I found that I had a dip at 40Hz, right where the speakers were cutting out, even though them set as small. I then changed the setting to just LFE, instead of LFE + Main, left the speakers as small, and set the crossover at 80Hz. I then reran REW, and my dip at 40Hz was gone.

Because of this I was under the impression that where my speakers began to cutoff it affected the FR with LFE+Main, even though they were set to small.
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post #2496 of 4117 Old 06-06-2007, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rombryo View Post

Give J&R a shot. Reputable authorized dealer of A stock with great prices. They have a web site but you can get better deals over the phone especially if you know the market. Call Mike Ruski 212 238 9000 X 2123.

Thanks for the heads up on this, I just called him on the AVR-987 and got it for WAY CHEAPER than I was expecting!!! Thanks!
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post #2497 of 4117 Old 06-06-2007, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I may have to disagree with this statement. Initially I had my speakers (Monitor Audio RS6) set to small and I had my setup as LFE+Main. The crossover for the speakers was 40Hz and 80Hz for the sub. When I ran REW I found that I had a dip at 40Hz, right where the speakers were cutting out, even though them set as small. I then changed the setting to just LFE, instead of LFE + Main, left the speakers as small, and set the crossover at 80Hz. I then reran REW, and my dip at 40Hz was gone.

Because of this I was under the impression that where my speakers began to cutoff it affected the FR with LFE+Main, even though they were set to small.

Hmmmm... wouldn't be the first time I was wrong

I'm gonna run AVIA later tonight and do the same tests. I thought that I had charted this when I did my setup, but cannot find the response plots.... so, I'll run 'em again.

I have my DefTech SM350's set as small, crossing at 60, with LFE=80, and LFE only set.

So, I'd expect to see everything in the L/R channels that is below 60, going to the SW. And, the LFE crossover would roll off everything in it's track, above 80. The SW should be playing L/R below 60, and LFE below 80.

I'll then change over to LFE+MAIN (still with small setting), and if I'm wrong... then the 350's should roll off bottom end around 60, that information and the LFE <80 should be going to the SW.

Then I'll set the speakers to large with LFE+MAIN, and again if I'm right, I'll see full range (the 350's should be able to go down to around 40) from the L/R, and 60 and below, along with LFE information <80 from the SW.

I was confused when I read that passage in the manual (over and over)... so, that was why I ran these setups - to figure it out. I'm almost positive that what I said, was what I experienced.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #2498 of 4117 Old 06-06-2007, 10:09 AM
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^^^

The manual stinks, I learned more by asking questions here

My analysis is based on what I saw using REW and the different settings for my speakers/sub. Let us know what you find.
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post #2499 of 4117 Old 06-06-2007, 08:22 PM
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I just finished the tests...rather than use AVIA, I used a series of individual tones from the BINK Audio Test Tones CD (http://binkster.net/extras.shtml). I wanted to be as accurate as possible with the frequencies, so I thought that this might work better. Using specific frequencies above, at and, below the set crossover points would give me ample time to measure the SPL. And with out introducing any variables with a sweep.

I calibrated the SPL meter such that with fixed volume from the 2807, it read -75db. That would be my reference point to measure from. I placed it on a tripod, 6 feet away from, and centered between the two front speakers (DefTech SM350's). This was also 5 feet away from, and just to the right of the SW (Pro Sub 1000).

Running series of LF tones: 20hz, 25hz, 31.5hz, 40hz, 50hz, 60hz, 70hz, 80hz, 90hz, 100hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200hz.

Speakers set to SMALL tests

1) Set up: All speakers set to small. LFE mode. Speaker crossovers at 100hz. I pushed the crossover up to 100hz from my usual setting of 60, so that I would have some more range to measure, since below 60hz, the 350's are not going to be that great.

With the SW turned OFF, playing just the fronts: Pretty flat from 200hz down to 125hz. At 100hz there was the beginning of rolloff (about -3db), at 90hz it was about -8db and at 80hz it was about -12, at 70hz about -15. At 60hz I was down to the -19db point. I stopped measuring at this point, as below that the 350's freq response would be less than stellar, anyway.

Turning the SW ON, and measuring its output, I started from 20hz and worked up the scale. Fairly linear up to 90hz, then slight rolloff begins (about -2db). At 100hz we dropped to about -4, at 125hz it was -14, at 160hz it was -28. I stopped there.

2) Set up: All speakers set to small. LFE+MAIN mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

Almost the exact same results... give or take.

Meaning, that regardless of LFE or LFE+MAIN, the speaker setting of small determines how bass management and crossover point are handled.

Speakers set to LARGE Tests

3) Set up: All speakers set to large. LFE mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

With the SW turned OFF, playing just the fronts: Pretty flat, little variance from 200hz all the way down to around 40hz, then started dropping slightly (about -3db), at 31.5hz about -5, and at 25hz it was -9. At 20hz, it was off the chart low, and pretty much garbage. But, the 350's are not really full range speakers, so I'd expect them to struggle down there. The did, however, remain flat WELL BELOW the crossover setting of 100hz - showing that when speakers are set to large, in LFE mode, they play the full range. I'm expecting that in this mode there will be no output from the SW.....

Turning the SW ON, and measuring its output was pretty easy... there was NONE. As expected, with speakers set to large, the only thing sent to the SW would be LFE signals. And, none of this content went through the LFE channel.

4) Set up: All speakers set to large. LFE+MAIN mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

Again, the results were almost identical to the LFE mode in #3, pretty flat down to 40hz - with the same roll off beyond that.

Now, turning the SW on, and measuring its output. There was output!!! Again, I started from 20hz and worked up the scale. Fairly linear up to 90hz, then slight rolloff begins (about -3db). At 100hz we dropped to about -5, at 125hz it was -14, at 160hz it was -28. I stopped there.

So, this shows that with speakers set to large, and LFE+MAIN mode set, you are getting the lower frequencies from both the mains *and* the SW.

Hope this helps with the understanding of how these modes work.

Now, I'm going to go watch the Stanley Cup finals... don't tell me who won. I DVR'd the game to do these tests

If something looks stupid, please cut me some slack. Been working on this post in between a lot of other things going on tonight. I think it's reasonably accurate... if in concept only.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #2500 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steebo777 View Post

Thanks for the heads up on this, I just called him on the AVR-987 and got it for WAY CHEAPER than I was expecting!!! Thanks!


No problem! J&R also sells the 3806 for the same price as the 2807, if anyone's on the fence. They also have amazing prices on SONY ES gear, if that's what you're into.
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post #2501 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I just finished the tests...rather than use AVIA, I used a series of individual tones from the BINK Audio Test Tones CD (http://binkster.net/extras.shtml). I wanted to be as accurate as possible with the frequencies, so I thought that this might work better. Using specific frequencies above, at and, below the set crossover points would give me ample time to measure the SPL. And with out introducing any variables with a sweep.

I calibrated the SPL meter such that with fixed volume from the 2807, it read -75db. That would be my reference point to measure from. I placed it on a tripod, 6 feet away from, and centered between the two front speakers (DefTech SM350's). This was also 5 feet away from, and just to the right of the SW (Pro Sub 1000).

Running series of LF tones: 20hz, 25hz, 31.5hz, 40hz, 50hz, 60hz, 70hz, 80hz, 90hz, 100hz, 125hz, 160hz, 200hz.

Speakers set to SMALL tests

1) Set up: All speakers set to small. LFE mode. Speaker crossovers at 100hz. I pushed the crossover up to 100hz from my usual setting of 60, so that I would have some more range to measure, since below 60hz, the 350's are not going to be that great.

With the SW turned OFF, playing just the fronts: Pretty flat from 200hz down to 125hz. At 100hz there was the beginning of rolloff (about -3db), at 90hz it was about -8db and at 80hz it was about -12, at 70hz about -15. At 60hz I was down to the -19db point. I stopped measuring at this point, as below that the 350's freq response would be less than stellar, anyway.

Turning the SW ON, and measuring its output, I started from 20hz and worked up the scale. Fairly linear up to 90hz, then slight rolloff begins (about -2db). At 100hz we dropped to about -4, at 125hz it was -14, at 160hz it was -28. I stopped there.

2) Set up: All speakers set to small. LFE+MAIN mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

Almost the exact same results... give or take.

Meaning, that regardless of LFE or LFE+MAIN, the speaker setting of small determines how bass management and crossover point are handled.

Speakers set to LARGE Tests

3) Set up: All speakers set to large. LFE mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

With the SW turned OFF, playing just the fronts: Pretty flat, little variance from 200hz all the way down to around 40hz, then started dropping slightly (about -3db), at 31.5hz about -5, and at 25hz it was -9. At 20hz, it was off the chart low, and pretty much garbage. But, the 350's are not really full range speakers, so I'd expect them to struggle down there. The did, however, remain flat WELL BELOW the crossover setting of 100hz - showing that when speakers are set to large, in LFE mode, they play the full range. I'm expecting that in this mode there will be no output from the SW.....

Turning the SW ON, and measuring its output was pretty easy... there was NONE. As expected, with speakers set to large, the only thing sent to the SW would be LFE signals. And, none of this content went through the LFE channel.

4) Set up: All speakers set to large. LFE+MAIN mode. Speaker crossovers at 100.

Again, the results were almost identical to the LFE mode in #3, pretty flat down to 40hz - with the same roll off beyond that.

Now, turning the SW on, and measuring its output. There was output!!! Again, I started from 20hz and worked up the scale. Fairly linear up to 90hz, then slight rolloff begins (about -3db). At 100hz we dropped to about -5, at 125hz it was -14, at 160hz it was -28. I stopped there.

So, this shows that with speakers set to large, and LFE+MAIN mode set, you are getting the lower frequencies from both the mains *and* the SW.

Hope this helps with the understanding of how these modes work.

Now, I'm going to go watch the Stanley Cup finals... don't tell me who won. I DVR'd the game to do these tests

If something looks stupid, please cut me some slack. Been working on this post in between a lot of other things going on tonight. I think it's reasonably accurate... if in concept only.

Thanks for your tests, hopefully that helps those that are uncertain about the different settings. Interesting that your tests differ from what I experienced. With my speakers set to small, I noticed a difference at 40Hz between LFE and LFE+Main, but since I figured out the best setting for my situation, I am not worried about it
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post #2502 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 10:41 AM
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Got a couple of questions regarding a 7.1 setup with the 2807 and in particular, HD movies, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray using the HD-A2 and PS3.

I currently have a 5.1 setup and am planning on adding the 2 surround rear channels tonight. My understanding is that the players currently decode the audio to LPCM and send it to the 2807 which directs it to the 5.1.

My questions would be, how would the players and 2807 handle the additional 2 speakers? Would the 2807 need to figure out what to send to the surround rear speakers? Would I have change the audio output, ie to Matrix PLII etc?

Thanks.
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post #2503 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycho316 View Post

Got a couple of questions regarding a 7.1 setup with the 2807 and in particular, HD movies, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray using the HD-A2 and PS3.

I currently have a 5.1 setup and am planning on adding the 2 surround rear channels tonight. My understanding is that the players currently decode the audio to LPCM and send it to the 2807 which directs it to the 5.1.

My questions would be, how would the players and 2807 handle the additional 2 speakers? Would the 2807 need to figure out what to send to the surround rear speakers? Would I have change the audio output, ie to Matrix PLII etc?

Thanks.

Since you helped me over in the 5.1/7.1 thread... I owe ya one

Yes, the 2807 will "figure out" how to deal with the information for the rear surrounds. Check out page 25 in the wonderful manual.. the left hand column gives the modes available for 6.1/7.1 surround modes. That will flip you over to page 26, right hand column. I use either DD EX or PLIIxCinema. As the note reminds... make sure you get the rear surrounds configured for 2 speakers.

But, having said that... I recommend that you re-run Auto-setup after you install the rear surrounds. They will be detected, and config'd/setup/calibrated & added to Audyssesy RoomEQ. That should take care of the basics.

Then, after that, if you set your input selection to AUTO, and turn the AFDM flag on (P27),you'll be good to go!!! This will switch you to PLIIxCinema mode automatically (if the DVD includes the flag). If not, or if you want just DD-EX, you can select it manually.

You can also use PLIIxMusic for audio (CD's Tuner, Digital Cable Music, etc.) Try it and let me know what you think. I actually prefer 7ChannelStereo over that, but I'm interested in other opinions.

Hope that helps!!!

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #2504 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycho316 View Post

Got a couple of questions regarding a 7.1 setup with the 2807 and in particular, HD movies, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray using the HD-A2 and PS3.

I currently have a 5.1 setup and am planning on adding the 2 surround rear channels tonight. My understanding is that the players currently decode the audio to LPCM and send it to the 2807 which directs it to the 5.1.

My questions would be, how would the players and 2807 handle the additional 2 speakers? Would the 2807 need to figure out what to send to the surround rear speakers? Would I have change the audio output, ie to Matrix PLII etc?

Thanks.

The 2807 can apply Dolby PLIIx and DTS NEO6 processing to an LPCM stream according to the manual. I haven't tried that since I don't have a high def player but if you can send a 5.1 LPCM stream to the 2807, you should be able to process that to 7.1. Check the processing options in the charts on pages 30-31 of the manual. You hould also be able to apply the DSP simulation modes if you wish.

If the player can send a 7.1 LPCM stream, then there will be no need for the 2807 to do any processing. It will just convert that stream to 7.1 analogue.

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post #2505 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post

The 2807 can apply Dolby PLIIx and DTS NEO6 processing to an LPCM stream according to the manual. I haven't tried that since I don't have a high def player but if you can send a 5.1 LPCM stream to the 2807, you should be able to process that to 7.1. Check the processing options in the charts on pages 30-31 of the manual. You hould also be able to apply the DSP simulation modes if you wish.

If the player can send a 7.1 LPCM stream, then there will be no need for the 2807 to do any processing. It will just convert that stream to 7.1 analogue.

David Aiken

Played around with these a bit... IMHO the NEO sounds pretty lame. I either just leave it at DD EX or PLIIxCinema. Haven't really found much difference between the two, except on the center channel. In PLIIx, is sounds a little too present on some DVD's, but that could just be the DVD.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #2506 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 11:55 AM
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Thanks to both Steve and David for the information and specific manual references, helps a lot in trying to figure out how to decipher this difficult manual

I'll be setting it up tonight and will report on my experiences with adding and using the 2 additional channels!
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post #2507 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rombryo View Post

No problem! J&R also sells the 3806 for the same price as the 2807, if anyone's on the fence. They also have amazing prices on SONY ES gear, if that's what you're into.

Can anyone comment on the big differences between the 3806 and 2807?
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post #2508 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post

Can anyone comment on the big differences between the 3806 and 2807?

DDSC circuitry on 3806.
AL24+ on all channels on the 3806, only FL/FR on 2807.
Better DAC's (Burr Brown vs. Analog Devices) on 3806.
Zone 3 on 3806.
Learning remote on 3806.
Misc. things.... 120w vs. 110, few extra input's/outputs, etc.

Go here for side-by-side:
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/...mageField.y=25

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #2509 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

DDSC circuitry on 3806.
AL24+ on all channels on the 3806, only FL/FR on 2807.
Better DAC's (Burr Brown vs. Analog Devices) on 3806.
Zone 3 on 3806.
Learning remote on 3806.
Misc. things.... 120w vs. 110, few extra input's/outputs, etc.

Go here for side-by-side:
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/...mageField.y=25


Thanks much!
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post #2510 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Played around with these a bit... IMHO the NEO sounds pretty lame. I either just leave it at DD EX or PLIIxCinema. Haven't really found much difference between the two, except on the center channel. In PLIIx, is sounds a little too present on some DVD's, but that could just be the DVD.

I would recommend that you turn the 'flag' off and just apply PLIIx. The reason for this is that some DVD's with a DD-Ex track don't have the flag configured properly and because of this if you are setup to detect the flag, you won't get anything. By using PLIIx, with the flag detect off you will get the proper use of all 7 speakers regardless of the flag or not.

Hope that isn't too confusing
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post #2511 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I would recommend that you turn the 'flag' off and just apply PLIIx. The reason for this is that some DVD's with a DD-Ex track don't have the flag configured properly and because of this if you are setup to detect the flag, you won't get anything. By using PLIIx, with the flag detect off you will get the proper use of all 7 speakers regardless of the flag or not.

Hope that isn't too confusing

Ah... cool. thanks. Haven't run into that yet. But, good to know. Like I said, I pretty much just use PLIIx - so I guess no need for the flag anyway.

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post #2512 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I would recommend that you turn the 'flag' off and just apply PLIIx. The reason for this is that some DVD's with a DD-Ex track don't have the flag configured properly and because of this if you are setup to detect the flag, you won't get anything. By using PLIIx, with the flag detect off you will get the proper use of all 7 speakers regardless of the flag or not.

Hope that isn't too confusing

Where do you turn off the flag... at the DVD player?

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post #2513 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Where do you turn off the flag... at the DVD player?

No... it's on the 2807, and only available for a digital input (HDMI or OPT/Coax) and only if you have a 7.1 speaker configuration.

When your playing source of DD or DTS, using the SURROUND PARAMETER button to get to the options menu for that, as you scroll down, you'll see AFDM... changing to ON detects the flag (if present in source).

Check out P26-27 in the manual

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post #2514 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 07:24 PM
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I guess I described it well enough
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post #2515 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Easy enough...

If you have your input selector set to AUTO, then when you switch on your cable STB, it will come up in DD or PLII Cinema when you have a video source... when you change the channel to a digital music channel, just push the MUSIC button on the remote, and that will give you PLII Music. When going back to an input where you want to watch the video, it will then default back into AUTO mode and give you DD or PLII (depending on source content). If PLII, it will still be in MUSIC mode... just hit the CINEMA button on the remote, and you back in Cinema mode. If the channel is sending DD, it will "automatically" switch to DD. Just remember, when you switch to another video source that is not DD, and PLII is "automatically" selected, you will have to change it from MUSIC to CINEMA.

What you might like better for digital cable music is 7/5 channel stereo. That adds less processing to the sound, yet still gives you separate sounds from all your speakers. It plays the center "in phase L/R" too - unlike PL mode's tendency to make the center a little more present than I prefer. That's even easier to select, too Just press the "DSP SIMULATION" button on the remote, until 7 or 5 channel (depending on if you have 5 or 7 speakers) stereo is displayed. Or, walk over to the AVR and press the 7/5 channel stereo button behind the front door.

Of course, if you have something like a Harmony remote, you can always just set up an "Activity" with your preferred settings in place, when you call it up. I've done that... in fact, I had to go find the manual to figure this out, because it's been so long since I used the (lousy) remote for the 2807. Harmony is definitely the way to go!

The Music, Cinema, and DSP Simulation buttons work great. You were right about the 5 channel stereo. It sounds great, especially if you are sitting in the sweet spot. I set them up on my Harmony 880 for easy access. But now that they are so easy to select I was wondering what happens if you accidently press one (Music/Cinema/5ChStereo) while watching a Dolby Digital program. Will the 2807 play Dolby Digital in PLII or 5 Channel Stereo? If yes, how do you switch back to Dolby Digital?
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post #2516 of 4117 Old 06-07-2007, 11:54 PM
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The Music, Cinema, and DSP Simulation buttons work great. You were right about the 5 channel stereo. It sounds great, especially if you are sitting in the sweet spot. I set them up on my Harmony 880 for easy access. But now that they are so easy to select I was wondering what happens if you accidently press one (Music/Cinema/5ChStereo) while watching a Dolby Digital program. Will the 2807 play Dolby Digital in PLII or 5 Channel Stereo? If yes, how do you switch back to Dolby Digital?

If you press a button and the processing option associated with that button is available for the signal type you're viewing, then it will be processed in that way. If you have a Dolby Digital signal, then whether or not you can get PLII processing depends on the number of channels in the Dolby track. You can't apply PLII to a mono track (not enough info to process) or a 5.1 track (nothing to process for a different and obvious reason) but you can to stereo and 4 channel soundtracks, and probably to a 3 channel soundtrack if such a thing exists. Some 2 channel soundtracks are actually "dual mono" and you can get PLII processing for those tracks since they do have 2 tracks, but it will process it into a mono track.

To get back to the original track/processing if you're running 5.1, just press the "Standard" button. It's a bit trickier in a 6.1 or 7.1 system if you have it set to apply PLIIx/NEO6 processing as a matter of course because you have to go into the Surround Parameter options to turn the rear surround channel/s off to get back to the original 5.1 or less soundtack.

The 2807 does have a wide range of processing options but not all of them are available for all input signals. Check out the tables on pages 30-31 of the manual to see what you can and can't do. If a particular option is not available, it simply won't be offered. The only options you can bring up at any time are just those that are available for the signal sort that you have.

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post #2517 of 4117 Old 06-08-2007, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I guess I described it well enough

I just spit out my coffee

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #2518 of 4117 Old 06-08-2007, 05:36 AM
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I just spit out my coffee


Bad coffee???
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post #2519 of 4117 Old 06-08-2007, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

This will switch you to PLIIxCinema mode automatically (if the DVD includes the flag). If not, or if you want just DD-EX, you can select it manually.
Hope that helps!!!


I have the 987 and love it. The above though I always thought Denon reversed it. DVDs sometimes have a DD EX flag instead of PLIIx flag or am I missing something? To me it seems it should be the other way around with AFDM than it is.

<><

RTR
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post #2520 of 4117 Old 06-08-2007, 09:08 AM
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Ive had my 2807 since shortly after the release last year but admittedly, and shamefully, havent really gotten to know the workings of it due to my lack of home theatre knowledge. I mainly use it for home theater and gaming (80/20) ...

My question is simple to you more seasoned veterans ... what setting is best for watching movies in 5.1. Ive had in on Neo DTS 6.1 and realize that I dont have a sixth speaker but I dont know what other setting to put it on. I reviewed the chart in the manual and 95% of the settings were for 6.1 and 7.1 speaker set up.

So if I choose the 6.1 DTS setting does the receiver know I only have 5.1 speakers and adjust or am I missing something from the sound by doing this?

Please let me know, I wish to understand all of this but dont know where to start to gain a foundation of home theater knowledge ... maybe they have a Home Theater for Dummies book. As these forums tend to be above me, where do I gain the basics ...?

Thanks ahead of time.

Zsolt
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