The "Official" Denon AVR-4306 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2393 Old 05-21-2006, 06:49 PM
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One problem I just realized w/ my new AVR-4306 is that only one channel pair is assignable, namely the back surrounds. Further, assuming you don't need the back surrounds such that you can reassign them, you must select either

1) Zone 2 or 3
2) Front A bi-amping

Hmmmm... this sucks, because say you have the following setup (mine), which I assume is not terribly uncommon:

- 5.1 (not 7.1)
- Front B's used in another room (in my case, the backyard patio speaker pair)
- Front A bi-amping desired, to take advantage of the beastly Denon amps

Hmmm... screwed, I guess. If I choose bi-amping for the back surrounds, there's nothing to feed the Front B's (patio speakers), other than w/ the Surround B's (only unused pair left on the Denon). But Surround B's amp isn't assignable in any manner, it just outputs surround sound - useless out in the backyard unless I choose special DSP modes every time I want to listen out back (like 5CH STEREO). If I choose Zone 2 or 3 for the back surrounds then I have a cool new backyard setup, e.g., I can listen to anything I want out back while others listen to something different in the house. Alas, with this setup I've now lost my Bi-amping capability for the Front A's. crap.

I carefully read the AVR-4806 amp, it specifically allows assignability of its amplifier stages, so (for example) the Surround B's can easily be assigned to copy the Front A sound, and could then drive my patio speakers.

Anyone have any ideas? Guess I could purchase yet another amp and connect the Front A pre-outs to it, then drive the patio... pisses me off though, to think I dropped nearly two grand on 7 amplifiers that aren't all being utilized. Ugh.
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post #92 of 2393 Old 05-22-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:


Anyone have any ideas? Guess I could purchase yet another amp and connect the Front A pre-outs to it, then drive the patio... pisses me off though, to think I dropped nearly two grand on 7 amplifiers that aren't all being utilized. Ugh.

I'm confused - you state you can't use all 7 amps, however you currently have:

1. 5.1 main system - this uses 5 of the 7 amps (L,C,R, SL, SR)
2. The surround back amp can be assigned to either: A. the zone 2 or 3 output (for your patio) which then operates as a stereo amp for that zone, or, B. bi-amp power for the front speakers. One of these options will utilize your unused surround back amps.

It appears you need 9 amplifier channels to meet your requirements. I don't understand why you think all 7 amps are not being utilized?
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post #93 of 2393 Old 05-22-2006, 12:00 PM
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The Surround B amps aren't being used... I only have a 5.1 system.
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post #94 of 2393 Old 05-22-2006, 12:03 PM
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Oops, hit the send button too quick - I should have said that I'm using only 7 of 9 amplifiers (FL, FR, C, SurrA-L, SurrA-R, SurrBack-L, SurrBack-R).
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post #95 of 2393 Old 05-22-2006, 12:05 PM
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There are only seven amps. The surround A and B share an amp.
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post #96 of 2393 Old 05-22-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLB16540 View Post

There are only seven amps. The surround A and B share an amp.

Duh... forgot about the sharing of Surr A & B on the 4306.

AVR-4806 appears to have 7 amps total as well (e.g., Surr A & B share an amp), yet the user manual Taiwanglish indicates that somehow Surr B can be re-assigned even when Surr A is in use - I don't see how this is possible if both A & B are sharing the same amp. Specifically, p. 106 of the AVR-4806 manual says:

Surr. B:
The Surround B amplifier channels can be re-assigned if they are not being used in the main room, and the Surround A amplifier channels are assigned to either the surround channels or to the front channels.

Front B:
This mode sets the Surround B amplifier channels to drive a second set of stereo outputs that match the front left and right speakers, providing a Speaker B option for stereo sound in another location (page 101).


Hmmmm.... I wonder if the underlined portion is a misprint, e.g., did Denon mean to say "... and the Surround A amplifier channels are NOT assigned to either...".

The "Front B" capability is what I was looking for in my original post, without losing the Front A bi-amp capability of the back surrounds.
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post #97 of 2393 Old 05-23-2006, 03:10 PM
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The Surround A vs Surround B distinction is for advanced installations where the user has 2 different sets of surround speakers. E.g., a pair of director radiators for multichannel music surround (SACD or DVD-A) and a pair of dipoles for movie surround. Connect one pair to Surround A, the other pair to Surround B, insert a DVD -V disc or SACD disc, e.g., and the 4306 will automatically detect the format and route the surround sound to the appropriate speaker pair, A or B.
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post #98 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 09:26 AM
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I have searched the forum and other sources to find out how the AVR-4306 and iPod interface. I have seen conflicting reports as to what it will do. I realize I will need the optional (branded or generic) cable. Here are my questions:

1) Can you see the iPod menu and options on the TV screen (connected via HDMI)?

2) Can you control the iPod remotely with the Denon remote or a Harmony remote when connected to the Denon?

3) Will the Video iPod work - can you playback an iPod video to the screen?

I am debating between the 4306 and the Pioneer VSX74TXVi which implements iPod very well, but lacks a third DHMI and Ethernet. I know the Denon is $500 more on the suggested retail price.

Thanks for your help
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post #99 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post

1) Can you see the iPod menu and options on the TV screen (connected via HDMI)?

Yes.

Quote:


2) Can you control the iPod remotely with the Denon remote or a Harmony remote when connected to the Denon?

Yes.

Quote:


3) Will the Video iPod work - can you playback an iPod video to the screen?

No.

The only way you can see video is to connect the analog video output from an iPod dock to a video input on the Denon. In this configuration, you will have to use the control wheel on the iPod to navigate the user interface.

The Grocers' Apostrophe, an AVS Forum tradition.
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post #100 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmilar View Post

The only way you can see video is to connect the analog video output from an iPod dock to a video input on the Denon. In this configuration, you will have to use the control wheel on the iPod to navigate the user interface.

That's simply not correct chmilar.

Not only is it theoretically possible to view video from my 5th gen iPod using the special Denon cable, but I have actually done it. 'Twas difficult to figure out, what with the way the manual obfuscates even the simplest of matters.

But it is most definitely possible!

I believe that I posted previously in this thread the precise details of how I managed to set the iPod and AVR-4306 up so that video can be viewed when connecting only via the iPod/Denon cable. You lose the iPod "on-screen" menu capability though and you have to control the iPod manually without the remote. So the answer to his #2 question should be "sometimes".
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post #101 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 01:27 PM
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Previous posts discussed getting a "slide show" on TV via the iPod cable, but not playing video clips.

Have you been successful playing full-motion video clips?

The Grocers' Apostrophe, an AVS Forum tradition.
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post #102 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 01:42 PM
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Thanks for the replies. In addition to the menu items, does the TV also display track information when playing?

I will search for the video setup
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post #103 of 2393 Old 05-24-2006, 08:55 PM
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I've tried going through the Audyssey setup several times. I'm running a 7.1 speaker setup, Monitor Audio RS6/RSLCR/RSFX with a Velo sub. I always start out by configuring the speakers to "small", but after the auto setup, the fronts are set to "large", and sometimes the center and surrounds are also set to "large". If anyone else is having this happen, should I leave thing as the "all-knowing computer" sees them, or change them back to "small". I've traded up from a 3805, and always set things up manually using a RS meter.
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post #104 of 2393 Old 05-25-2006, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmilar View Post

Previous posts discussed getting a "slide show" on TV via the iPod cable, but not playing video clips.

Have you been successful playing full-motion video clips?

Sorry, but I don't have any video clips on my iPod (yet?) or I would try it out... I don't know why they wouldn't? Maybe I just "don't know"?

I vaguely remember when I first got my new iPod a while back, trying to copy a .wmv file onto the iPod and immediately giving up because it didn't work the first time I tried it... Maybe it's time for me to re-visit that? To be perfectly honest, I just don't see much purpose FOR ME to want to do that with my iPod. I've never paid to d/l a TV episode and don't desire to... Watching those might be fantastic if I had long commutes to work everyday, but my commute consists of getting out of bed.

Back on topic, why would viewing a jpg file stored on the iPod --- thru the AVR-4306 --- on a plasma screen be different than a viewing a stored "full-motion video file"? Stupid question I suppose? You can view "video" --- so what's the diff?

I do store many jpg's on my iPod... Instead of pulling out my wallet and showing you dog-earred photos of my granddaughter --- I just punch them up on my iPod --- and now can also show them to you in big-screen glory... It really is "nice" to easily view slideshows on my 50" monitor while playing music thru my 4306.

I'll eagerly watch for your message here to see if YOU can or can't get video to stream...
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post #105 of 2393 Old 05-25-2006, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenfingers Gene View Post

I've tried going through the Audyssey setup several times. I'm running a 7.1 speaker setup, Monitor Audio RS6/RSLCR/RSFX with a Velo sub. I always start out by configuring the speakers to "small", but after the auto setup, the fronts are set to "large", and sometimes the center and surrounds are also set to "large". If anyone else is having this happen, should I leave thing as the "all-knowing computer" sees them, or change them back to "small". I've traded up from a 3805, and always set things up manually using a RS meter.

Maybe it's only me, but it seems that, while the Denon AVR-4306 is a GREAT A/V receiver, it is not intuitive to use and the manual only makes matters worse? I fought and fought with getting MULTQ to work and finally (with help here) "got 'er done".

I would give the 4306 my vote for most user unfriendly device I've ever owned... That includes professional video editing and conversion equipment...

But, part of the problem might also be that the 4306 does SO much... The more complicted a device is, the more difficult it is to use? Maybe?

At any rate, I'd hazard a guess that the problems you're experiencing could be related to operator error due to crummy (inadequate) instructions in the User's Manual. Took me a while, but posters here finally helped me. Hope it works that way for you too.
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post #106 of 2393 Old 05-25-2006, 01:26 PM
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My iPod is 4th-gen, music only. I don't plan to replace it anytime soon, so it will be a long time before I can try iPod-to-Denon video play.

I think the iTunes Music Store has video podcasts that you can download for free. If you just want a test clip, you don't have to pay for a tv show.

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post #107 of 2393 Old 05-30-2006, 01:02 PM
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Do the 4306's on screen menus work when outputting over HDMI at 1080i? I tried searching for this but my search terms found nothing? Can anyone confirm this?
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post #108 of 2393 Old 05-30-2006, 02:56 PM
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I hooked up a 4306 last night and I am having trouble with my ipod. I can get everything to work great when I hook the iPod straight up to the 4306 with the special Denon/iPod cable. However, when I use a dock, the display on the front of the 4306 just says loading.. and no sound or menu on the TV.

Is there a special trick to get the dock to work.

I have tried 4th gen ipod, ipod nano with two different docks.
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post #109 of 2393 Old 05-30-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon View Post

I hooked up a 4306 last night and I am having trouble with my ipod. I can get everything to work great when I hook the iPod straight up to the 4306 with the special Denon/iPod cable. However, when I use a dock, the display on the front of the 4306 just says loading.. and no sound or menu on the TV.

Is there a special trick to get the dock to work.

I have tried 4th gen ipod, ipod nano with two different docks.

Check my post on page one of this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7454987
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post #110 of 2393 Old 05-31-2006, 10:04 AM
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I ran the Auto EQ setup SEVERAL times and it always set my fronts to large. Which they are defintely not!! I suggest running the Auto EQ then going in and tweaking manually. Apparently the auto EQ sets alot of people's speakers to large when they shouldn't be. Change this in the manual setup. I changed my fronts to small, equalled some distances as it had set my LF speaker at 10 and my RF at 11. (no big deal really) But I also disagreed with my subwoofer setting. It set my fronts up 5 dBs, my center up 2 dBs, my backs up 2 dBs, but my sub down 12 dBs. Really took alot of punch out of the sound field. I changed it to down 3 dBs. Also, it has my crossover at 80Hz, and I moved it up to 100Hz I think it made it sound worse (muddy). But I haven't decided yet. I thought you were supposed to have some overlap (100Hz sub over my 80Hz fronts). Agree?

Anyway, hope that helps. I spent 7 hours playing setup and you really get the hang of it after awhile!
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post #111 of 2393 Old 05-31-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:


Do the 4306's on screen menus work when outputting over HDMI at 1080i? I tried searching for this but my search terms found nothing? Can anyone confirm this?

My 4306 on screen display works fine over HDMI at all resolution settings
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post #112 of 2393 Old 06-01-2006, 12:26 PM
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Jake,
I believe you want a gap as in 80hz on your sub and 100 hz on your fronts. Having an overlap will cause a peak at 90hz since they will both be producing this. Of course if your room needs this peak all is well.
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post #113 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 09:24 AM
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I think you are correct, as it sounds worse to me. I have backed it down to where it's no overlap, 80 Hz on both. I will try gapping down the sub and see how it sounds. Thanks.

BTW, anybody have any issue hooking an DVI/HDMI cable (Oppo 971) to this, and then just running optical audio in? My xbox360 is not cooperating running component and then optical audio in.

Trial and error...trial and lots of error!
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post #114 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 07:32 PM
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Looks like the folks at AH really like this one. Pretty impressive.

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...n-AVR-4306.php
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post #115 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofmusic View Post

Looks like the folks at AH really like this one. Pretty impressive.

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...n-AVR-4306.php

Thanks for the link... I was encouraged to read the following comment in the Manual Setup and Configuration section of the review:

"Denon's manual setup is, to date, unmatched in the industry. It is so sophisticated, that even the most battle-hardened Audiophiles will stare, agape, at the many configuration options and controls available to the consumer within the Setup menu system. If you are planning to give this receiver to your Dad for Christmas, better make sure you can set it up for him or it is likely that your gift will eventually come sailing out the second story window in a fit of rage. With endless options and configurability comes complexity and, so far, the two are inseparable."

I thought it was just me. I have railed about the "horribly lacking" user's manual. About as counter-intuitive as any manual I've ever seen... But, maybe that is at least partially due to the configurability & complexity.

I was tempted to throw mine out the window a few times, but since I was the one who bought and paid for it --- I resisted the temptation, mighty though it was.

The review gave me a few ideas on areas I should check out, such as the streaming audio feature...

Thanks again.
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post #116 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 09:23 PM
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This is probably covered in some other thread but will the 4306 handle lossless recordings via its wireless imput over an ethernet bridge? I get a message that the format is not supported? Any help?
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post #117 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 09:47 PM
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I will be hooking up my AVR-4306 this weekend. When connecting an HD-DVR (DirecTV HR10-250) to the HDMI input, should I also connect the optical audio from the DVR to the Denon, or by using the HDMI I am already getting the best possible audio?
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post #118 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leighnjo View Post

This is probably covered in some other thread but will the 4306 handle lossless recordings via its wireless imput over an ethernet bridge? I get a message that the format is not supported? Any help?

The 4306 will only play back WMA, Wave and MP3 files.

To get it to play back FLAC you need to use something like Twony Media server or similar that transcodes the file and then streams it to the 4306.

Hopefully someone with a bit more technical knowledge can correct any mistake in the terminology I have used if it is incorrect.
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post #119 of 2393 Old 06-02-2006, 10:46 PM
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I have a Yamaha RX-V2600 and I've been pondering upgrading to the Denon 4306 based on the 1080p support and the extra HDMI slot. I really like the Yamaha, but it's just that I want to make thing simple in cabling and expect to eventually have a 1080p display (possibly the Sony Pearl projector if it turns out 1080p for the 5k MSRP).

I'm concerned about the loss of THX Select2 and the special Yamaha DSP's that enable 5.1 to be made into 7.1 pretty nicely. If the 4306 had THX Select2, this wouldn't be an issue, but without it, I'm wondering... how good is the DPLIIx? Are there any other special DSP's on the Denon to enhance surround support in the backs?

Will there be a noticable jump in speaker performance for a full set of Ascend speakers (340SE's for the fronts and center, 170SE's for both surround's)?

I've read a lot about the sound quality of Denon recently (and found many threads say Denon's sound, "warm,) but will that add to the sound of my Ascends, do you think? I tend to prefer the way the THX modes "muddy" the sounds a little on the fronts because of superior surrounds, so will that "muddy" sound be a closer match to the Denon's warm performance or... not?

I do 75% movies, 15% games (360, PC) and 10% music. Does anyone have experience moving between mid-range Yamaha receivers to equivalent Denon receivers and can comment on the sound differences? I know both are great, but I guess I'm wondering what I should be expecting.

Going to a dealer has not worked for me in the past as their layout is... not optimal for listening tests.
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post #120 of 2393 Old 06-03-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post

I will be hooking up my AVR-4306 this weekend. When connecting an HD-DVR (DirecTV HR10-250) to the HDMI input, should I also connect the optical audio from the DVR to the Denon, or by using the HDMI I am already getting the best possible audio?

Hook up the optical cable. The HR10-250 won't pass 5.1 sound over HDMI.

Harry

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