Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1033 - AVS Forum
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post #30961 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post


When you run PBK, the only sound you are hearing is from your sub right? For me, which I have the Velodyne DD-18, the fronts are on too so that I can see how the sub is behaving with the fronts. However, I can turn the amp off for the fronts and just look at what the sub is doing which is what I do. At the end, I turn on the fronts so that I can see how the front and the subs blend together and then do a little more tweaking if it's needed.

PBK is for Paradigm DSP subs not for other Manufacturers.
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post #30962 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

When you run PBK, the only sound you are hearing is from your sub right? For me, which I have the Velodyne DD-18, the fronts are on too so that I can see how the sub is behaving with the fronts. However, I can turn the amp off for the fronts and just look at what the sub is doing which is what I do. At the end, I turn on the fronts so that I can see how the front and the subs blend together and then do a little more tweaking if it's needed.

My experience with the Velodyne EQ is that it is easy, almost trivial, to achieve any sub response curve you want at any SINGLE MIC LOCATION.

However if you want to get good sub response across the seating area -- i.e., at multiple mic locations -- it is a bear. Forget about using their automated setup. Fixed, equally spaced, parametric filter frequencies just don't cut it.

Now if you do a manual solution with their EQ -- which lets you change the parametric filters in ways the automated solution won't -- you *CAN* get a clean result across the seating area. But it is a colossal effort. In my case I spent, quite literally, weeks on it.

There's a post link from me on the first page of this thread describing some of that long slog.

The thing is, you are making compromises all the time, and you need to do a lot of listening to the same content over and over again to find out which compromises are working and which are screwing up.

With the very first ARC release -- which was nowhere near as good as the current ARC release -- the first automated, completely un-tweaked, result from ARC blew away the best manual solution I had achieved with the Velodyne EQ. It was no contest. And when I went back with the Velodyne mic to see how ARC's solution did at various mic positions I found the charted curves from the Velodyne looked just as clean as the best, multi-location result I could get manually using the Velodyne EQ. And the AUDIBLE bass result was far superior.

Now of course some of the audible difference is due to the fact that ARC is also correcting the mains which means the bass blend from mains into the sub is improved. But still.

I've never gone back to using the Velodyne EQ. ARC does what I need.

If my room was such that I *HAD* to use the Velodyne EQ (with ARC on top of that) due to the degree of correction needed, I suspect I would simply use the automated Velodyne EQ -- which I know isn't perfect by any means, but would likely get me "close enough" that ARC could take it from there.
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post #30963 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The "high pass filter" Jayray is talking about is the OTHER end of the sub's response -- how it rolls off at the lowest, subsonic frequencies. Changing that roll off down there will have no effect on how the sub blends with the main speakers since that all happens higher up in frequency.

"High pass" for the sub means higher frequencies (e.g., 30 Hz) are passed and lower frequencies (e.g., 15 Hz) are attenuated.

The crossover for the sub, on the other hand, is a "low pass" filter. Lower frequencies (e.g. 60Hz) are passed and higher frequencies (e.g., 120 Hz) are attenuated.

Meanwhile the crossover for a main speaker is a "high pass" filter. Confused yet?

The fine details of the sub response adjustments are handled with the new settings at the bottom of the Targets window in ARC V3.0.

For my setup I prefer ARC's default choices to the "flat" option. My sub is a THX Ultra 2 sub and goes quite deep. Its internal high pass filter kicks in below 15Hz. Nevertheless, I still find I'm happier with the little bit of rolloff ARC is providing down there.

I have noticed a bit more feel now with that change but no ill effects. It was a suggestion from Nick for those who have capable subs. It is easy to try and then you can decide. Just another way to hopefully squeeze out a little more from our subs
John

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post #30964 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

I have noticed a bit more feel now with that change but no ill effects. It was a suggestion from Nick for those who have capable subs. It is easy to try and then you can decide. Just another way to hopefully squeeze out a little more from our subs
John

I'm waiting for DRHANKZ to get off his duff and try ARC V3.0 with his "low rider" style pneumatic floor pounders -- response down to 4Hz as I recall. "Flat" from ARC will probably launch him out of his seat.
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post #30965 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm waiting for DRHANKZ to get off his duff and try ARC V3.0 with his "low rider" style pneumatic floor pounders -- response down to 4Hz as I recall. "Flat" from ARC will probably launch him out of his seat.
--Bob

OH NO - you want me to try something new - Then Come on Over
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post #30966 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm waiting for DRHANKZ to get off his duff and try ARC V3.0 with his "low rider" style pneumatic floor pounders -- response down to 4Hz as I recall. "Flat" from ARC will probably launch him out of his seat.
--Bob

Now that put a big laugh in my belly. I tried to picture it but I need a picture of the good dr.
John

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post #30967 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

OH NO - you want me to try something new - Then Come on Over

I think Bob and I need to come over to see if we can persuade you to try the new ARC. I'm not that far, but don't know about Bob.
John

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post #30968 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

I think Bob and I need to come over to see if we can persuade you to try the new ARC. I'm not that far, but don't know about Bob.
John

I think you guys are about equal distances
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post #30969 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonNo10 View Post

Does a Mark Seaton Submersive fall into this catergory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

I don't know anything about this sub. If it can go below 20Hz loudly, then try the advanced setting.
John

Yes, please do set the ARC high pass to "flat", else you will significantly cut off the low extension observed in most rooms. I did this recently in helping with a local customer's setup and at first pass it appeared to work quite well. I do see real utility in ARC adding high pass frequency options down to 10Hz, but with the flat setting you can leave that to the subwoofer's electronics.

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post #30970 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post


Yes, please do set the ARC high pass to "flat", else you will significantly cut off the low extension observed in most rooms. I did this recently in helping with a local customer's setup and at first pass it appeared to work quite well. I do see real utility in ARC adding high pass frequency options down to 10Hz, but with the flat setting you can leave that to the subwoofer's electronics.

Thanks for the confirmation Mark.
John

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post #30971 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 04:11 PM
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Hey Nick;

Do we really need the long delay during power up?

John

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post #30972 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Go into your ARC file and open target window. Click on advanced and in the top left hand side there is a value you can change called Sub High Pass. It is probably set by default to Auto. Change it to FLAT. This only matters if your sub can play loud below 20 Hz.
John

Nice Jayray, thanks.

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post #30973 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Hey Nick;

Do we really need the long delay during power up?

John

Bob has explained this in several posts. I can't remember the details but the short answer is yes.
John

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post #30974 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 04:59 PM
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I have tried several more discs and can conclude that the flat high pass order is giving me some more low down feel and it is tighter. The film The Island is an HDDVD DD+ and starts with some poundng bass. This now is tighter and throughout the movie I was amazed at some of the LFE I have not noticed before that is now there. I'm sold so far.
John

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post #30975 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 05:08 PM
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i have the original d2 and im thinking about upgrading to the d2v am i going to see that big of a difference in the audio and video, seems like alot of money for the upgrade. what i was looking for was the audio codecs but i guess i can get that through a blu ray player with analog outs going to the d2 and let it pass through or am i missing something?
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post #30976 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

i have the original d2 and im thinking about upgrading to the d2v am i going to see that big of a difference in the audio and video, seems like alot of money for the upgrade. what i was looking for was the audio codecs but i guess i can get that through a blu ray player with analog outs going to the d2 and let it pass through or am i missing something?

You don't need to use the analogue outs. Have the player convert the new codecs to LPCM and send that to the D2. This is what I use.

Bob has said that he has seen and heard an improvement. How much verses cost is up to the buyer.
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post #30977 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Yes, please do set the ARC high pass to "flat", else you will significantly cut off the low extension observed in most rooms. I did this recently in helping with a local customer's setup and at first pass it appeared to work quite well. I do see real utility in ARC adding high pass frequency options down to 10Hz, but with the flat setting you can leave that to the subwoofer's electronics.


Thanks for chiming in here Mark....

BTW I'm loving my new Submersive HP - good lord.... such a great looking and performing little beast...

I have been trying to suggest to Anthem to start having ARC measure and show response (not necessarily try to correct response) just a bit lower towards 10hz to at least see what the bass is looking like. With more and more truly high performance, high excursion products out on the market such as the Submersive, as well as Paradigms own Sub 1 & 2, and pretty much darn near every new high performance sub out on the market in a not so "stadium like" room are touting they can do....

It would be very helpful for those dropping the kind of money some of us seem to like to do, and not have to resort to even more equipment to see whats going on down there...
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post #30978 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

For folks who are getting ARC V3.0 charts that show the solution being at or below 60dB SPL even though you find you are still using the same volume settings when listening to normal content as with your prior ARC version's 75dB solution, I'm curious what version of Windows you are using?

I have a theory that this is a chart error due to the version of Windows, and that the solution itself is really still a 75dB solution.

I'm using Windows XP Home Edition, and do not have this problem. My ARC V3.0 charts show volumes pretty close to just what I would expect. And the volume settings I use in normal listening confirm that.

Is anybody having the problem with XP? Which version of XP? Or is the problem just on Vista or on Windows 7?
--Bob

I'm using XP Pro on bootcamp of a Macbook Pro 13" with the keyspan usb, and getting 60 db when the RS meter with fresh battery shows test signal of 75db. Also, I notice that with 3.0 I get more failed sweeps, for one reason or another, than with past versions of ARC. Usually just says sweep failed, want to try again, and then it works. Does this about 3-4 times per set of measurements.
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post #30979 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 06:52 PM
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Anthem Tech Support has updated the "test" ARC 3.0.1 download file on their password protected download page this evening. As best I can tell, the only change is to update the included manual for the new MRX receivers.
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post #30980 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Bob has explained this in several posts. I can't remember the details but the short answer is yes.
John


Maybe Nick knows of some cure in the making, but thanks.

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post #30981 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I'm considering getting an AVM50v, and want to know if the hdmi bugs I read about in reviews have been fixed...I would assume through firmware updates.

I just sold off my Arcam AVR600, due to these issues, so I just want to make sure the the AVM doesn't have the same problems (like no audio when powering on, freezing, etc...)

Any other feedback for a potential owner?

Thanks.


I can only speak for the D2v but some people have been experiencing HDMI bugs, myself and my brother for starters. I just quoted my findings a few days ago where I thought my problems had gone away when I changed from a 50' HDMI cable to a 3' but I just had to reboot to fix a "no picture" from my PC and a no audio from my Direct receiver earlier today. It's not that bad and often, more of an annoyance really but I just heard of a supposed miracle cure for all HDMI issues that's an inline adapter, I'll post if it works for me.

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post #30982 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Shrike645 View Post

You don't need to use the analogue outs. Have the player convert the new codecs to LPCM and send that to the D2. This is what I use.

Bob has said that he has seen and heard an improvement. How much verses cost is up to the buyer.

i guess i have to check if the ps3 80g decodes the new audio codecs?
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post #30983 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

i guess i have to check if the ps3 80g decodes the new audio codecs?

It does. All PS3s decode them. Only the newest PS3s also offer the option of bitstreaming them.
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post #30984 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Maybe Nick knows of some cure in the making, but thanks.

It's not really an explanation -- more of an observation. The Anthem has always muted itself for a while on power up. It looks like they simply extended that muting delay to give a better chance that HDMI input and output was all working correctly before things went live.

I imagine this was done to reduce the chance of nasty noise during power up with certain combinations of source devices and displays.
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post #30985 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It does. All PS3s decode them. Only the newest PS3s also offer the option of bitstreaming them.
--Bob

is there any benifit to bitstreaming them? and also bob, does the ps3 pass the new codecs through the d2 or does the d2 down rez it when you use hdmi people keep telling me i have to use analouge outs to use the new audio through the d2
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post #30986 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

is there any benifit to bitstreaming them? and also bob, does the ps3 pass the new codecs through the d2 or does the d2 down rez it when you use hdmi people keep telling me i have to use analouge outs to use the new audio through the d2

The correct way to use the PS3 with the D2 is to use HDMI LPCM audio from the PS3. Set the PS3 to enable all of the HDMI LPCM output formats up to 5.1 channels at up to 96KHz. (The automatic HDMI audio setup in the PS3 will do just this for you all by itself.)

That will work just fine for you.

The D2v extends HDMI audio further to allow up to 7.1 LPCM channels at up to 192KHz, as well as adding Bitstream input for the high bandwidth audio codecs. There's no important difference between Bitstream audio and LPCM audio. All the D2v does with Bitstream audio is decode it to LPCM for you.

Letting the PS3 do the decoding for you (turning lossless audio codecs into LPCM for HDMI output) works just fine.
--Bob

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post #30987 of 43238 Old 11-11-2010, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The correct way to use the PS3 with the D2 is to use HDMI LPCM audio from the PS3. Set the PS3 to enable all of the HDMI LPCM output formats up to 5.1 channels at up to 96KHz. (The automatic HDMI audio setup in the PS3 will do just this for you all by itself.)

That will work just fine for you.

The D2v extends HDMI audio further to allow up to 7.1 LPCM channels at up to 192KHz, as well as adding Bitstream input for the high bandwidth audio codecs. There's no important difference between Bitstream audio and LPCM audio. All the D2v does with Bitstream audio is decode it to LPCM for you.

Letting the PS3 do the decoding for you (turning lossless audio codecs into LPCM for HDMI output) works just fine.
--Bob

Thank you very much for all your help,i've been out of the loop for a while because i was happy with the d2 but i got the bug again. i'll have to do a refresher on how to install the newest arc software.
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post #30988 of 43238 Old 11-12-2010, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

I'm considering getting an AVM50v, and want to know if the hdmi bugs I read about in reviews have been fixed...I would assume through firmware updates.

I just sold off my Arcam AVR600, due to these issues, so I just want to make sure the the AVM doesn't have the same problems (like no audio when powering on, freezing, etc...)

Any other feedback for a potential owner?

Thanks.

I have the 50v and can say that the HDMI issues have steadily decreased with each firmware update. It's now very rare that I run into a "no sound" or "funny color" problem. I never had any freezes. The fix is to turn off the component and turn it back on. I used to keep my fingers crossed when I switched between components, but no more.
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post #30989 of 43238 Old 11-12-2010, 03:51 AM
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Bob,when i run arc for the latest software for my d2,can i just run the arc program in my new pc that i just picked up, or do i have to transfer the version that im using now over to the new pc and then run the arc? and by going into the d2 menu and saving my settings now before i run arc will that save what i have now in the case something goes wrong with the new set up. were in the thread can i find the set up procedure for the arc.
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post #30990 of 43238 Old 11-12-2010, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

I have tried several more discs and can conclude that the flat high pass order is giving me some more low down feel and it is tighter. The film The Island is an HDDVD DD+ and starts with some poundng bass. This now is tighter and throughout the movie I was amazed at some of the LFE I have not noticed before that is now there. I'm sold so far.
John

I tried "Flat" tonight with Dual Submersives and the difference is frankly, night and day. Thanks for the tip Jayray - superb. I was wondering why I was missing the last 10% or so of Subwoofer performance because I know the Submersives are more than capable. Even my wife picked up on the difference

Further, bass overall is far tighter and like you I noticed sound in LFE I had not picked up on before even with tracks I've heard many times.

Cheers

Blade
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