Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1036 - AVS Forum
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post #31051 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 12:57 PM
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1) No problem, you can fix the speaker distances after setting up ARC because ARC never hears more than one speaker playing at a time so it won't hear anything resulting from incorrect relative distances.

2) It is not unusual for people to have to turn volume way down on their subs to get proper calibration. Sub makers know that many people won't believe the sub is working unless they can see the stress fractures forming in their walls.

The Measured response from your sub doesn't look good. ARC is correcting much of that but there's a problem that needs to be addressed. Since you have dual subs with a common amp, one thought is that you have a polarity problem between them so that they are canceling each other across a wide range of bass frequencies. To test that, use Quick Measure with only one sub connected at a time. If Quick Measure shows good output from each sub in turn but bad output when they are both connected then cancellation is the culprit. Recheck the wiring and polarity settings.

If Quick Measure shows each individual sub also producing the same, bad output then you should investigate repositioning the subs to see if you can find a location where they couple more favorably with the room.

------------------------------------

All of your main speakers show very poor treble output. I could expect some treble drop off in the mic response, but what you've got seems go way beyond that. Play some stereo audio content with treble, select Stereo All audio surround mode and then go put your ear up close to the tweeters in each speaker in turn and make sure they are firing. Check your speaker pointing as well as treble is directional.

You've got a little dip in LF/RF around 100Hz, but that's minor compared to the sub and treble problems.
--Bob

Bob,
Thank you for the reply. My subs use Monster THX Ultra cable with Neutrik Speakon (press and twist on/off) connectors to the dedicated amp. I believe that this would take polarity/phase issues out of the equation. I believe that my only option here may be to point the subs differently. I don't really have much of an option to move them within the room.
As for the treble, I played several tracks in All Stereo mode as well as listening to the AIX Records blu-ray sampler. Everything actually sounded fantastic; much better than the Aragon StageOne that I am replacing. The tweeters are all functioning and quite eardrum piercing at higher volume levels.
A little setup/room info:
AVM50v/Aragon 2007 200Wx7
L/C/R Klipsch KL-525-THX
Sur/Back Klipsch KS-525-THX

My setup consists of all horn tweeters that have a dispersion of 90deg x 60deg. All of my surround speakers are bi-directional (triangle shaped with horn/mid on two sides. The LR are sitting on the subs and the center is on AV cabinet all 16 from front wall and are a bit below ear level (10 below front row ear level and 18 below rear row) and the surrounds are at 78 from the floor putting them about 40ish inches above ear level. The subs are 9 from front wall and 22 from side walls. They have front firing slot ports.
I have attached a rough diagram of the room. The blue numbers are the ARC Mic positions.
Any positioning or pointing suggestions based on this information?
I won't have the opportunity to run ARC again until tomorrow as my girlfriend borrowed the laptop I use.
Thank You.
-Chris
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #31052 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 01:25 PM
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Why are you changing all the speakers to 80Hz? There's no particular value in that

Macca recommended to do this when I took delivery of the JTR 8HT's (3 fronts) and JTR Slanted 8's and first started using ARC. ARC set the left and right speakers to 80 but the center & rears to 90 and the sub to 120.

I'm happy to upload the settings ARC came up with in the first place and will post the graphs for comparison to the changes I made. I didn't upload the settings with the added room gain as yet, as I was waiting for a reply from you or others to see if it was a positive thing to do.

Thanks for the explanation regarding the reference question.

Here are the specs on the Triple 8HT's that I'm using for the front stage:

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

and here are the Slanted 8HT's that I'm using for surrounds (I'm running a 5.1 setup):

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/slanted-8/
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post #31053 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 01:42 PM
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Didn't do ARC 3.0 yet, but did 2.4 as I just bought the AVM50v 2 days ago.

Can someone help decipher these? Regardless, the sound is fantastic. I can't move my speakers or sub, so take that into mind.
LL
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post #31054 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 02:40 PM
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can someone tell me how these graphs look?

 

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post #31055 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabbit636 View Post

I figured it was compatible but just wanted to be sure before doing it.....now on to the recalibration of my system!

Thanks!

Works on my D1!
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post #31056 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

For folks who are getting ARC V3.0 charts that show the solution being at or below 60dB SPL even though you find you are still using the same volume settings when listening to normal content as with your prior ARC version's 75dB solution, I'm curious what version of Windows you are using?

I have a theory that this is a chart error due to the version of Windows, and that the solution itself is really still a 75dB solution.

I'm using Windows XP Home Edition, and do not have this problem. My ARC V3.0 charts show volumes pretty close to just what I would expect. And the volume settings I use in normal listening confirm that.

Is anybody having the problem with XP? Which version of XP? Or is the problem just on Vista or on Windows 7?
--Bob

I have the ~62db issue & am running Windows XP Media Center edition

On another note, I saw the above posts about the "flat" setting on the sub. I have the SVS SB12 Plus that was dropping off well before 20hz in my ARC solution. While my sub doesn't have lots of output below 20hz, figured I'd try this setting to see if it makes a difference. I redid the ARC solution & the sub looks much better according to the graph. Before I was -3db around 28hz, the new solution is showing 20hz as my -3db level!

I'll have to do a before test, update the solution & compare.
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post #31057 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husker du
Thanks for the response Bob.

If we say that the center channel should match the mains, are we talking in terms of power rating, gain or other quantitative or qualitative measures.
In my opinion it needs to match period. The center is very important to movie audio and If the center amp does not have comparable characteristics you could end up with the center not sounding the way it should. What might be telling is if you could test driving the center with one Citation and the L/R from the receiver. If it sounds no different in dialog an upgrade may not be in order.

You didn't say which Studios you have, I have had the 100's v3, they need a solid amp.

I have a P5, it is everything you think it is, that said it is the only piece that I have questioned spending too much on, but I have kept it in the interest of do no harm. If the Citation does really well on center then I would suggest trying to find another. I had an HK amp in the middle 80's and remember it fondly. I had some sealed enclosure Boston Acoustics that were rated at 4 ohms (A400's I think) that were a handful to drive and the HK I had did well.
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post #31058 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 03:59 PM
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I am thinking of upgrading from a D1 to a D2. Anyone think doing this is shortsighted? I have no interest in 3D, use a BDP 83 with analog outs now for loss less but am finding not having HDMI a pain. I have a scope screen with lens and would like to get the stretch out of the projector as it does not do it quite right.

I have a dealer who will give me a price comparable to Audiogon but they will warranty it even though Anthem will not due to time on the floor.

Had thought of going with a MRX of some flavor but no scope stretch a I understand.
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post #31059 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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I am finding not having HDMI a pain.
You have no idea what Blu-Ray sound you are missing and picture
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post #31060 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mookie b View Post
Didn't do ARC 3.0 yet, but did 2.4 as I just bought the AVM50v 2 days ago.

Can someone help decipher these? Regardless, the sound is fantastic. I can't move my speakers or sub, so take that into mind.
What should I make of the massive dip on all speakers at 10khz?
LL
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post #31061 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 04:44 PM
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Hi I'm so fresh on Anthem D2v. And I've heard, set ARC high pass to flat to make a good result. But I could not find where it to be on menu. Let me know, please.
Thank you
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post #31062 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz

You have no idea what Blu-Ray sound you are missing and picture
I thought using the analog out on the Oppo allowed lossless to the now D1. It sounds better than the coax digital link for sure.
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post #31063 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by drhankz

You have no idea what Blu-Ray sound you are missing and picture
I do use DVI from the Oppo to the projector. It does HDCP.
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post #31064 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray;
Here are my two scenarios, ARC Flat and ARC Auto. Both have PBK done on the Sub 25 and ARC Flat is with both PBK and ARC set to flat and Auto is with both done with Auto.
John
Thanks for posting both John. Its a bit hard to see the detail with those low res pics, any chance you could repost higher res pics with just the sub channel?

Cheers


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post #31065 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pongtip;
Hi I'm so fresh on Anthem D2v. And I've heard, set ARC high pass to flat to make a good result. But I could not find where it to be on menu. Let me know, please.
Thank you
Go to the Targets window, bottom right there is an 'Advanced' button, click on that and you'll find those options.

Cheers


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post #31066 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 05:13 PM
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MACCA350, You are so kind. Thank so much, time to play on it Yippy
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post #31067 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 06:05 PM
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Only Cool Kids get Mascots



Now you are crowned COOL
Thanks for the mascots and cool crown drhankz!
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post #31068 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MACCA350 View Post
Thanks for posting both John. Its a bit hard to see the detail with those low res pics, any chance you could repost higher res pics with just the sub channel?

Cheers
I tried using paint but not sure how to make it higher res. What I see is a slight decrease as the curve hits 20 Hz with Auto and with Flat, the curve is slightly flatter but sounds and feels flatter below 20 Hz.
John

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post #31069 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
We don't have any details yet, but I assume that if they switch to including the HDMI V1.4 ports as part of the base configuration that the price may go up on the base configuration anyway. Based on past upgrade pricing, it would probably still be cheaper to wait and buy a new configuration with the updated HDMI included rather than buying now and doing an upgrade,
Has Anthem done any hardware "upgrades" in the past that would be comparable? If so, what was the fee?
Quote:
but then think of all the time you'll have lost where you could already be enjoying a new D2v?
--Bob
That is an excellent argument


John
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post #31070 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray;
I tried using paint but not sure how to make it higher res. What I see is a slight decrease as the curve hits 20 Hz with Auto and with Flat, the curve is slightly flatter but sounds and feels flatter below 20 Hz.
John
Does the green calculated response line follow the target curve in both graphs? Or does it deviate and follow the red pre filter response line below 25Hz on the Flat graph?

Cheers


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post #31071 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MACCA350 View Post
Does the green calculated response line follow the target curve in both graphs? Or does it deviate and follow the red pre filter response line below 25Hz on the Flat graph?

Cheers
It follows the target line in both. Target line is flatter with Flat HPF.
John

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post #31072 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post
can someone tell me how these graphs look?
thanks

 

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post #31073 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jayray; View Post

It follows the target line in both. Target line is flatter with Flat HPF.
John

Seems yours is the only one(of the few that have posted) that has the post filter line following the target below 25Hz in Flat mode. The main difference it seems is your pre filter line around 25Hz looks closer to the target.

Will have a fiddle around during the week to see what the cause is and whether adjusting the sub prior to measurements will have the desired effect.

Cheers


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post #31074 of 43164 Old 11-13-2010, 11:08 PM
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Ok, I've worked it out.......the explanation for what is going on is quite simple really, I noticed it before but assumed it was ignored........it's not

In the advanced settings of ARC 3.0 when you set the High Pass Filter to 'Flat' hence disabling it, the 'Min Sub EQ Freq' option becomes active........and by active I mean active, ie if you set it to 50Hz ARC will do nothing from there down. The lowest option for this is 20Hz and, as far as I can tell, you cannot disable it in Flat mode or reduce it to take advantage of ARC's latest sub 20Hz filtering.

So basically in Flat mode ARC will only apply filters down to 20Hz.
If your pre filter measurement deviates much from the target below 30Hz your post filter line will leave the target and begin following the pre filter measurement.

Only workaround I can suggest is to get your measured pre-ARC response around 20-30Hz close to your target level at that point prior to calculating the filters. This way there will be a smooth transition from ARC's adjustments to the natural response of your sub in your room. What you don't want is a resulting boost in that region and below for the reasions mentioned earlier.

Would be nice for Anthem to include an option to disable that 'Min Sub EQ Freq' setting or to include the lowest frequency ARC will correct as an option(since v3.0 supposedly corrects below 20Hz)

Cheers


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post #31075 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 05:12 AM
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Hmm, well after having my D2v for about 1.5 years running 2.10 I experienced significant HDMI audio loss. When i first power on the unit and the source(either BDP83SE or DirecTV) i will sometimes have no sound. Also noticed that if I am in D2 setup and move off the source that is currently in use, I will also lose video. The only remedy so far is to power cycle the D2 and cross my fingers because sometimes it will take multiple reboots. Since it is happening to multiple sources doesn't sound like they or the HMDI cables are the issue. Just wondered what others have experienced and any remedies.

Thanks,

Lou
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post #31076 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_bit_bucket View Post

In my opinion it needs to match period. The center is very important to movie audio and If the center amp does not have comparable characteristics you could end up with the center not sounding the way it should. What might be telling is if you could test driving the center with one Citation and the L/R from the receiver. If it sounds no different in dialog an upgrade may not be in order.

You didn't say which Studios you have, I have had the 100's v3, they need a solid amp.

I have a P5, it is everything you think it is, that said it is the only piece that I have questioned spending too much on, but I have kept it in the interest of do no harm. If the Citation does really well on center then I would suggest trying to find another. I had an HK amp in the middle 80's and remember it fondly. I had some sealed enclosure Boston Acoustics that were rated at 4 ohms (A400's I think) that were a handful to drive and the HK I had did well.

Thanks for the response.

The speakers are Studio 100s v.5.. I will try the HK in the center. I do have access to another Citation amp that I can try. I have no doubt the Citation will drive the center well. My question about the center matching the mains was more about how closely the specifications of the respective amplifiers need to match rather than the quality of the amplification. In other words, if the HK is more than adequate to drive the center, does it matter that it does not have the same "specs". Bob stated that this was a complicated matter so I'm going to assume that there are reasons to use the same amp for the center as the mains.
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post #31077 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 06:02 AM
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thanks

Post your target window as well. Your sub is down 10 dB at 100 Hz and a little less down to 70 Hz. Make sure any correction or high freq. filtering is disabled before you run ARC. Try repositioning the sub using the Quick Measure feature in ARC. Depending on what sub you have, I think your response can be better.
John

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post #31078 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 07:53 AM
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i have the pardign sig servo 15" SUB were do i find the correction filtering at. what do i have to do to reposition the sub in the quick measure , here is my target graph. otherwise do u think the charts look good thank u .


l

 

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post #31079 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 08:21 AM
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Like the poster above, I also realized I had my SUB had its internal correction stuff running. Turned it off, and here are the new charts. (my old ones a few posts earlier)

Thanks JayRay for all the help.

 

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post #31080 of 43164 Old 11-14-2010, 08:31 AM
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how do you know if it has internal correction.
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