Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 129 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3841 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 05:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
drhankz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

HDMI 1.3 FAQ's

I don't need to read specifications.

I'm an EE.

I ASKED what will you SEE and HEAR yourself?

So far EXTENSIVE testing by SONY and others with
HUMANS have not found one person yet - who can
see and hear anything different when using equipment
with HDMI v1.3!
drhankz is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3842 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 06:02 AM
Newbie
 
Shaktijess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm using a Toshiba HD XA2 with my week old Pioneer Elite 1140 plasma, my first plasma /HD experience. The problem with HD DVDs is that almost all of them are in 2.33 :1 aspect. Therefore they have black bars top and bottom, a no no for plasma. When I use the 1140 zoom Tom Cruise's face gets stretched vertically; I hate the stretch! Are any of you using any video processors or scalers to do the aspect ratio instead of the TV, for a more natural stretch? Any recommendations?

I'm considering looking into an Anthem AVM 50, but wow, a lot of bucks. 4:3 DVDs look excellent in zoom on my setup, even 2.33:1 standard DVDs look ALMOST okay, but HD DVDs are stretched too distorted for my tastes. Aside from that they look extraordinary in full mode. Also I find the aspect control on my Dish 622 stb does a better, more natural zoom on satellite material than the Pioneer? What's up with that??? Would the Anthem allow me to do a natural customised stretch so that it filled the screen but didn't look stretched? Also, how big if any an improvement would it make in SD viewing form my Dish 622? Thanks.
Shaktijess is offline  
post #3843 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 06:29 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
mlbrand,
If you haven't already, check out the "Why you don't need HDMI V1.3" sticky thread at the top of this forum.

Please keep in mind that the HDMI V1.3 FAQs you linked to are marketing spin.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3844 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 06:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
drhankz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

mlbrand,
If you haven't already, check out the "Why you don't need HDMI V1.3" sticky thread at the top of this forum.

Please keep in mind that the HDMI V1.3 FAQs you linked to are marketing spin.
--Bob

You Mean this Thread - Bob ?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9506527
drhankz is online now  
post #3845 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 06:54 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaktijess View Post

I'm using a Toshiba HD XA2 with my week old Pioneer Elite 1140 plasma, my first plasma /HD experience. The problem with HD DVDs is that almost all of them are in 2.33 :1 aspect. Therefore they have black bars top and bottom, a no no for plasma. When I use the 1140 zoom Tom Cruise's face gets stretched vertically; I hate the stretch! Are any of you using any video processors or scalers to do the aspect ratio instead of the TV, for a more natural stretch? Any recommendations?

I'm considering looking into an Anthem AVM 50, but wow, a lot of bucks. 4:3 DVDs look excellent in zoom on my setup, even 2.33:1 standard DVDs look ALMOST okay, but HD DVDs are stretched too distorted for my tastes. Aside from that they look extraordinary in full mode. Also I find the aspect control on my Dish 622 stb does a better, more natural zoom on satellite material than the Pioneer? What's up with that??? Would the Anthem allow me to do a natural customised stretch so that it filled the screen but didn't look stretched? Also, how big if any an improvement would it make in SD viewing form my Dish 622? Thanks.

First, don't get too hung up with having to stretch EVERYTHING to fill the screen in your new plasma. Current plasma designs -- and that certainly includes your new Pioneer Elite -- are much less subject to permanent burn in problems. And the lesser form of that, "image retention", vanishes very quickly. Burn in happens when the used and unused phosphers burn (and thus dim) at different rates. Modern phosphers don't dim anywhere near as fast. There's even good reason to believe the usual advice for new plasmas -- fill the screen for the first 100 hours of watching -- is not needed any more. In any event, if you are using the "D-Nice" break in settings during that first 100 hours (see the Pioneer threads in the display forum) you are good to go.

And that's really the key: Much more important than avoiding letter or pillar box bars is that you get your Contrast and Brightness set properly from the start -- i.e., that you do NOT use the factory default settings. In the Pioneers you particularly want to avoid the "Dynamic" picture mode, which is what Pioneer calls their "torch mode" settings intended only for store display purposes.

If you want to be doubly sure, stretch your SDTV channels viewed during that first 100 hours. But so long as you are using proper Contrast and Brightness settings for watching movies, don't worry about those letter box bars when watching movies. After the first 100 hours you needn't even really worry about stretching your SDTV channels -- again with proper Contrast and Brightness settings. And even pausing the screen for a couple minutes is not an issue.

Again, modern plasmas are MUCH better at avoiding problems here than the earlier ones.

Distorting a "wider than wide screen" movie to fill your "wide screen" display will not really be pleasant no matter how you do it. There are only 3 ways to approach this:

1) Zoom in on the image until it fills the screen top to bottom. This means that some of the image is lost off either side. What remains on screen is not distorted -- circles still look like circles.

2) Stretch the image uniformly in the vertical direction only. No image is lost off the sides but circles now look like tall ovals.

3) Stretch the image NON-uniformly in the vertical direction only. This is like (2) -- no image lost, but circles look like tall ovals -- except that more stretch is applied near the top and bottom and less in the center so that the center of the image is less distorted. However the top and bottom are more distorted which can be particularly annoying during vertical pans. A vertical pan makes the image look like it is kind of on a funhouse mirror as the stretch of objects varies as they move up or down the screen.

My recommendation is that you calibrate the Contrast and Brightness properly on your plasma, watch casual content (like SDTV programs) stretched horizontally by method (2) above for roughly the first 100 hours, and enjoy your movies WITHOUT stretching them -- even during that first 100 hours.

Follow watching movies displayed with letter box bars with a similar amount of time watching 16:9 HDTV, or movies that fill the screen, or SDTV stretched to fill the screen. Again, this is only something you need watch out for during those first 100 hours.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3846 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 09:57 AM
Newbie
 
Shaktijess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

First, don't get too hung up with having to stretch EVERYTHING to fill the screen in your new plasma. Current plasma designs -- and that certainly includes your new Pioneer Elite -- are much less subject to permanent burn in problems. And the lesser form of that, "image retention", vanishes very quickly. Burn in happens when the used and unused phosphers burn (and thus dim) at different rates. Modern phosphers don't dim anywhere near as fast. There's even good reason to believe the usual advice for new plasmas -- fill the screen for the first 100 hours of watching -- is not needed any more. In any event, if you are using the "D-Nice" break in settings during that first 100 hours (see the Pioneer threads in the display forum) you are good to go.

And that's really the key: Much more important than avoiding letter or pillar box bars is that you get your Contrast and Brightness set properly from the start -- i.e., that you do NOT use the factory default settings. In the Pioneers you particularly want to avoid the "Dynamic" picture mode, which is what Pioneer calls their "torch mode" settings intended only for store display purposes.

If you want to be doubly sure, stretch your SDTV channels viewed during that first 100 hours. But so long as you are using proper Contrast and Brightness settings for watching movies, don't worry about those letter box bars when watching movies. After the first 100 hours you needn't even really worry about stretching your SDTV channels -- again with proper Contrast and Brightness settings. And even pausing the screen for a couple minutes is not an issue.

Again, modern plasmas are MUCH better at avoiding problems here than the earlier ones.

Distorting a "wider than wide screen" movie to fill your "wide screen" display will not really be pleasant no matter how you do it. There are only 3 ways to approach this:

1) Zoom in on the image until it fills the screen top to bottom. This means that some of the image is lost off either side. What remains on screen is not distorted -- circles still look like circles.

2) Stretch the image uniformly in the vertical direction only. No image is lost off the sides but circles now look like tall ovals.

3) Stretch the image NON-uniformly in the vertical direction only. This is like (2) -- no image lost, but circles look like tall ovals -- except that more stretch is applied near the top and bottom and less in the center so that the center of the image is less distorted. However the top and bottom are more distorted which can be particularly annoying during vertical pans. A vertical pan makes the image look like it is kind of on a funhouse mirror as the stretch of objects varies as they move up or down the screen.

My recommendation is that you calibrate the Contrast and Brightness properly on your plasma, watch casual content (like SDTV programs) stretched horizontally by method (2) above for roughly the first 100 hours, and enjoy your movies WITHOUT stretching them -- even during that first 100 hours.

Follow watching movies displayed with letter box bars with a similar amount of time watching 16:9 HDTV, or movies that fill the screen, or SDTV stretched to fill the screen. Again, this is only something you need watch out for during those first 100 hours.
--Bob

Thanks so much for your help, Bob. IR is my primary concern. But I do also like to fill the whole scrren, and I hate stretch modes. Will the Anthem or some other processor enable me to customize the zoom so that it fills the screen without distorted stretches. The 1140 does a good job, distortion wise, on HD TV and on 4:3 materail but HD DVDs
in 2:33 mode have a vertical distortion. Apparantly it zooms equally on 4:3 but not on 2:33.
Shaktijess is offline  
post #3847 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 10:22 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaktijess View Post

Thanks so much for your help, Bob. IR is my primary concern. But I do also like to fill the whole scrren, and I hate stretch modes. Will the Anthem or some other processor enable me to customize the zoom so that it fills the screen without distorted stretches. The 1140 does a good job, distortion wise, on HD TV and on 4:3 materail but HD DVDs
in 2:33 mode have a vertical distortion. Apparantly it zooms equally on 4:3 but not on 2:33.

Like I said above, there is no free lunch here. If you "stretch" the image in only one direction (so as not to lose stuff off the edges in the other direction) you will end up with circles that look like ovals in that direction.

If you "zoom" into the image to increase it's size without distortion then you have to lose something off one pair of edges or the other. There's no place to put those portions of the image without distorting the image.

Stretching 4:3 content left and right to fill a 16:9 screen is less noticeable since the screen is already wider that way, the percentage stretch is not that big, and the eye gets fooled if there aren't prominant circles in the image.

Stretching "wider than wide screen" cinematic content to fill the 16:9 screen top to bottom produces more noticeable distortion. And your only way out of that is to allow some of the image to be lost off either side.

But to answer your question, the Anthem allows you to enter Custom settings to crop the image prior to scaling as you choose. That determines how much of the input image is lost off the top/bottom or the left/right. By default nothing is lost. Then the Anthem will scale that to the pixel count you specify in your video output resolution. In the process, the Anthem will either stretch the cropped input uniformly to fill the screen (Scale Out = Anamorphic), non-uniformly (Scale Out = Panoramic), or retaining the shape of your crop and adding either letter boxes or pillar boxes to pad out the short direction to fill the output resolution.

To use this with "wider than wide screen" cinematic content you will need to experiment with how much you prefer to lose left and right compared to how much distortion you introduce due to the stretching up and down.

If you watch a lot of 2.35:1 cinema from some input, you can put your prefered set of Custom settings for that in the Video Source Adjust / Crop Input / Custom entry for that input. Then you can use the remote to pretty easily switch between 16:9 crop, 4:3 crop, or your Custom crop. For HDMI sources, there is also an HDMI Auto setting that will switch automatically between 16:9 and 4:3 cropping (but not Custom). HDMI Auto is the factory default.

Of course not all "wider than wide screen" cinematic content is 2.35:1. You will need to enter new Custom numbers manually each time you switch image shapes you want to handle this way.

=====================================

EDITED TO ADD: If you do a Custom setting for Crop Input that is less than the full input resolution in either directiion, then you can ALSO adjust the centering of the crop in the short direction (both of them if both are short).

There's not much point in doing this horizontally unless your source is sending screwy video to the Anthem.

But adjusting the vertical positioning on an input that you have cropped top and bottom can be very useful if your source puts subtitles below the image. At the expense of losing some of the real image on the top, you can shift the crop down to keep the subtitles visible without adding additional distortion to the image. Increasing the size of the vertical crop to keep the subtitles visible would do the same thing, but then you'd ALSO have at least a letter box bar on top equal to the size of the space on bottom you've opened up to see the subtitles (even if you are "stretching" the result, since this letter box bar is being retained from the input image, so it is also shown in the "stretched" result).

And of course you can balance this by opening up the crop a little AND shifting it down a little.

The point is, you've got pretty much TOTAL flexibility, at the cost of having to figure out how you best prefer to do it for any given movie, and then writing down those settings someplace for the next time you watch that movie. The settings you need to note are the four integers making up your preferred Crop Input / Custom setting and also the preferred Scale Out setting to use with them (Anamorphic, Letter/Pillar Box, or Panoramic).

All of these settings can be seen and changed "live" while you are watching the movie (via the Video Source Adjust menu under the "7" key on the remote), so it is easy to see the result "on the fly" and refine things as you prefer.

You will likely discover that there is just one set of settings you prefer for each wideness of "wider than wide screen" cinemetic content -- plus perhaps one variant if the movie displays subtitles below the image. I.e., your preferred settings for ALL 2.35:1, non subtitled movies will likely be the same.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The additional Scale Out setting -- "ZOOM" -- should *NOT* be used for actual viewing. It is intended to be used temporarily when setting things up or when checking a particular portion of an image. Using it for normal viewing will result in dramatically worsened imaging as the math that implements it is done AFTER the scaler does its job.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3848 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 11:58 AM
Member
 
buyrightlow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got the Toshiba hd2A and it allows you to set the resolution to 480i, thereby allowing the anthem to take over from there and bypass the internal scaling. Also, it plays cd's just fine. So I really don't know why anyone would want another dvd player than that for video, and as to audio I'm not sure what the 2A does with sacd. BTW, the hd and sd picture on the Toshiba is truly remarkable!

I'm hooking my laptop up today to the AVM50 via s video and 2 channel stereo via line out, using a stereo y connector for right and left channel. I'm thinking about getting the Sound Blaster Audigy 2zs that will allow full 5.1 channel, not "virtual" sound, to be played from downloaded video's through the Anthem. Should be great. I'm curious to see how the anthem upscales the video signal from the laptop, which it will recognize it as a video source. If it does a good job I'll need to consider downloading video and bypassing the dvd player. Stay tuned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

I have the Oppo and although it looks like a $150 DVD player, it outperforms most at many times the price.

If you have been following these threads, the Anthem pieces were hit with an issue when trying to input 1080i into them. I think for the most part that this has been corrected. The reason I'm telling you this is when I was hit with this issue, before I knew what was causing it, I borrowed a high end Ecosse hdmi cable to see if the 1080i issue was due to the cable. For comparison, I tried both the Oppo's cable and the Ecosse cable and saw absolutely no difference.

One very nice feature of the Oppo is that you can output it's native 480i resolution out to the Anthem using the hdmi cable. This allows the Anthem to do the processing. I'm not aware of any other DVD players that does this, although I'm sure there must be some.

It will play both SACD and DVD-A, again over hdmi. You just have to remember to switch it to 1080i output before doing so.

As you probably assume by now, I do recommend it without a doubt. Three other people I know have also purchased it and even without the Anthem doing the processing, they are amazed at the picture quality they are now getting. One of them has the ealier version which is probably better if you are allowing it to do the processing, but when linked with the Anthem, the 970 is the way to go.

buyrightlow is offline  
post #3849 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 12:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tolstoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

I DO NOT own any Oppo Product.

In this era of HD DVDs - either HD or Blu-Ray - I can't understand
why anyone would BUY an OPPO player - UNLESS they need SACD.

I'm not saying there is a single thing wrong with OPPO - but if you
have ANY brand of HD DVD or Blu-Ray Player - they all upconvert
SD DVDs to HD.

NONE of the HD Players do SCAD or even CD music. So if that is
what you want then OPPO does a great job in that area.

I added the Pioneer BR BDP-HD1 player recently to my setup and feel it is as good or better transport for 480i than my Oppo 970HD. Meanwhile, I am still keeping the Oppo for SACD and DVD-A playback. I would like to get rid of the Oppo since my rack is full and I have a XA2 coming in two weeks. But, until we get SACD and DVDA playback from our HD player we are a bit stuck with the Oppo.
Tolstoi is offline  
post #3850 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 02:18 PM
Newbie
 
Shaktijess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Like I said above, there is no free lunch here. If you "stretch" the image in only one direction (so as not to lose stuff off the edges in the other direction) you will end up with circles that look like ovals in that direction.

If you "zoom" into the image to increase it's size without distortion then you have to lose something off one pair of edges or the other. There's no place to put those portions of the image without distorting the image.

Stretching 4:3 content left and right to fill a 16:9 screen is less noticeable since the screen is already wider that way, the percentage stretch is not that big, and the eye gets fooled if there aren't prominant circles in the image.

Stretching "wider than wide screen" cinematic content to fill the 16:9 screen top to bottom produces more noticeable distortion. And your only way out of that is to allow some of the image to be lost off either side.

But to answer your question, the Anthem allows you to enter Custom settings to crop the image prior to scaling as you choose. That determines how much of the input image is lost off the top/bottom or the left/right. By default nothing is lost. Then the Anthem will scale that to the pixel count you specify in your video output resolution. In the process, the Anthem will either stretch the cropped input uniformly to fill the screen (Scale Out = Anamorphic), non-uniformly (Scale Out = Panoramic), or retaining the shape of your crop and adding either letter boxes or pillar boxes to pad out the short direction to fill the output resolution.

To use this with "wider than wide screen" cinematic content you will need to experiment with how much you prefer to lose left and right compared to how much distortion you introduce due to the stretching up and down.

If you watch a lot of 2.35:1 cinema from some input, you can put your prefered set of Custom settings for that in the Video Source Adjust / Crop Input / Custom entry for that input. Then you can use the remote to pretty easily switch between 16:9 crop, 4:3 crop, or your Custom crop. For HDMI sources, there is also an HDMI Auto setting that will switch automatically between 16:9 and 4:3 cropping (but not Custom). HDMI Auto is the factory default.

Of course not all "wider than wide screen" cinematic content is 2.35:1. You will need to enter new Custom numbers manually each time you switch image shapes you want to handle this way.

=====================================

EDITED TO ADD: If you do a Custom setting for Crop Input that is less than the full input resolution in either directiion, then you can ALSO adjust the centering of the crop in the short direction (both of them if both are short).

There's not much point in doing this horizontally unless your source is sending screwy video to the Anthem.

But adjusting the vertical positioning on an input that you have cropped top and bottom can be very useful if your source puts subtitles below the image. At the expense of losing some of the real image on the top, you can shift the crop down to keep the subtitles visible without adding additional distortion to the image. Increasing the size of the vertical crop to keep the subtitles visible would do the same thing, but then you'd ALSO have at least a letter box bar on top equal to the size of the space on bottom you've opened up to see the subtitles (even if you are "stretching" the result, since this letter box bar is being retained from the input image, so it is also shown in the "stretched" result).

And of course you can balance this by opening up the crop a little AND shifting it down a little.

The point is, you've got pretty much TOTAL flexibility, at the cost of having to figure out how you best prefer to do it for any given movie, and then writing down those settings someplace for the next time you watch that movie. The settings you need to note are the four integers making up your preferred Crop Input / Custom setting and also the preferred Scale Out setting to use with them (Anamorphic, Letter/Pillar Box, or Panoramic).

All of these settings can be seen and changed "live" while you are watching the movie (via the Video Source Adjust menu under the "7" key on the remote), so it is easy to see the result "on the fly" and refine things as you prefer.

You will likely discover that there is just one set of settings you prefer for each wideness of "wider than wide screen" cinemetic content -- plus perhaps one variant if the movie displays subtitles below the image. I.e., your preferred settings for ALL 2.35:1, non subtitled movies will likely be the same.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The additional Scale Out setting -- "ZOOM" -- should *NOT* be used for actual viewing. It is intended to be used temporarily when setting things up or when checking a particular portion of an image. Using it for normal viewing will result in dramatically worsened imaging as the math that implements it is done AFTER the scaler does its job.
--Bob

Thanks again, Bob- this gives me a lot more info. So as I understand it, if I'm willing to let go of the corners of the image, the Anthem will allow me to maintain normal body ratios/ no distortion and allow me to choos myself what I'll give up, as opposed to a preprogrammed choice. correct?
Shaktijess is offline  
post #3851 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaktijess View Post

Thanks again, Bob- this gives me a lot more info. So as I understand it, if I'm willing to let go of the corners of the image, the Anthem will allow me to maintain normal body ratios/ no distortion and allow me to choos myself what I'll give up, as opposed to a preprogrammed choice. correct?

Yes. Although usually it is the left/right sides rather than the corners.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3852 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 04:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
mlbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

mlbrand,
If you haven't already, check out the "Why you don't need HDMI V1.3" sticky thread at the top of this forum.

Please keep in mind that the HDMI V1.3 FAQs you linked to are marketing spin.
--Bob

Bob,

Thanks for pointing me to that sticky, I was aware of the ongoing debate on HDMI 1.3, and that thread and your posts explain it very well.

I do not intend to get into a debate here on the pro's and con's of HDMI 1.3. Arguments of that type are not my cup of tea, and your thread and others have covered it well. I just wanted to know if anyone had heard when Anthem might implement this upgrade.

Whether we like or need HDMI 1.3 or not, the course appears to be set, and at some point in the future Anthem customers will expect to see it.
mlbrand is offline  
post #3853 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 05:15 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

Bob,

Thanks for pointing me to that sticky, I was aware of the ongoing debate on HDMI 1.3, and that thread and your posts explain it very well.

I do not intend to get into a debate here on the pro's and con's of HDMI 1.3. Arguments of that type are not my cup of tea, and your thread and others have covered it well. I just wanted to know if anyone had heard when Anthem might implement this upgrade.

Whether we like or need HDMI 1.3 or not, the course appears to be set, and at some point in the future Anthem customers will expect to see it.

Sure at some point it will be the natural way to go.

I haven't heard of any announcements from Anthem, but my expectations would be sometime around the middle of 2008.

HDMI V1.3 chips are in short supply, and what is actually important to implement as regards the optional features of HDMI V1.3 is not yet clear.

For example, is decoding relevant, or will "advanced content" discs dominate the market.

Also, what's the right video engine for that next generation product?

These questions are important if you have a reputation for "doing it right" to maintain.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3854 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 07:06 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
rudolpht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Boxborough, MA, USA
Posts: 7,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
1.3 will help provide additional bandwidth for audio, so in the near term it does nothing for color depth given all links of the chain, including content production and delivery through end device require it.

I'm hoping we get 7.1 PCM sooner than 1.3, but 1.3 won't hurt, it's just a couple years from meeting potential and all our new 4K res projectors with 4x p24 refresh.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
rudolpht is offline  
post #3855 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Member
 
ensmarcum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just setup my D2 and I have a problem with HDMI. I have a Sony 50's rptv and it has a dvi connection, no hdmi. so i bought an adapter to make my dvi cable hdmi, but all i can get is a picture with a pink color over what is showing. it works fine with component, can anyone shed some light on this problem for me? I also get a skip in the image every now and again. Not the dvd, it is clean and the dvd player has never done that before. I have the dvd player running to the d2 via component and then to the tv via component. anyone else have this skipping problem? Thanks
ensmarcum is offline  
post #3856 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 07:25 PM
Member
 
drlopezmdfacc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensmarcum View Post

I just setup my D2 and I have a problem with HDMI. I have a Sony 50's rptv and it has a dvi connection, no hdmi. so i bought an adapter to make my dvi cable hdmi, but all i can get is a picture with a pink color over what is showing. it works fine with component, can anyone shed some light on this problem for me? I also get a skip in the image every now and again. Not the dvd, it is clean and the dvd player has never done that before. I have the dvd player running to the d2 via component and then to the tv via component. anyone else have this skipping problem? Thanks

I had the same problem. Bob has addressed it in detail earlier in this thread--you probably need to change your video output format to "RGB".
drlopezmdfacc is offline  
post #3857 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Member
 
ensmarcum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alright I just changed it to extended rgb and it works great. Thanks! how can you get the display to come up without losing the picture? You know like LEV does on his projector?
ensmarcum is offline  
post #3858 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 07:44 PM
Member
 
ensmarcum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Now when I set it to 1980/1080i X 60 I am getting some pixelizing. Should I set it to rgb and leave it be?
ensmarcum is offline  
post #3859 of 42980 Old 02-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensmarcum View Post

Now when I set it to 1980/1080i X 60 I am getting some pixelizing. Should I set it to rgb and leave it be?

RGB is almost certainly what you want for your TV's DVI input instead of Extended RGB.

In addition look for any setting in your TV that configures its DVI input for DVD or set top box as opposed to computer or PC, and set it to the DVD or set top box setting if you find one.

After setting Anthem output to RGB, re-adjust the basic Blacks/Whites/Colors/Sharpness settings in your display based on the test patterns the Anthem will generate for you.

Then use the Anthem input settings, as necessary to fine tune input levels for each source device as necessary.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3860 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 06:01 AM
Senior Member
 
dknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Roswell, GA, USA
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by abc999 View Post

Can the AVM50 be uses for Constant Height Application? I have a Mitsu hc5000 and the AVM50. Can this combo work?

OK, well I'm not really sure I have a handle on this yet, but I *THINK* what you want to do here can be handled with the "Crop Input" function in the Anthem's Video Source Adjust menu.

This function has two built-in styles of cropping, but also provides for the user to enter a completely custom cropping. I believe if you simply crop the content to 2.35:1 the scaler will do the rest. However you may also need to manually set the horizontal and vertical sizing using the "No Scale" function of the "Scale Output" function in that same menu.

Hi Bob,

I've just ordered a D2 and really want to use it for constant height vertical stretching as several others have described. It sounds like your proposed solution above will work, although I never saw anybody post after you did to confirm it.

One question: Is it possible to store this custom scaling mode as a preset so one can switch back and forth with the touch of a button? I'll have an anamorphic lens that is only used for 2.35:1 aspect ratio programming, and would like to program a macro that both moves the lens into place (on a IR-controlled power sled) as well as switches the D2 into "constant height" mode.

Thanks.

-Dave
dknight is offline  
post #3861 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 06:34 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight View Post

Hi Bob,

I've just ordered a D2 and really want to use it for constant height vertical stretching as several others have described. It sounds like your proposed solution above will work, although I never saw anybody post after you did to confirm it.

One question: Is it possible to store this custom scaling mode as a preset so one can switch back and forth with the touch of a button? I'll have an anamorphic lens that is only used for 2.35:1 aspect ratio programming, and would like to program a macro that both moves the lens into place (on a IR-controlled power sled) as well as switches the D2 into "constant height" mode.

Thanks.

-Dave

You can store one set of Custom cropping info for each overlayed input -- via the Video Source Adjust menu while that input is currently selected -- and if you'd like you can make Custom cropping be the default Crop Input setting for a given overlayed input (i.e., DVD2, etc.). Then you can program your remote to switch to that overlayed input when needed.

You can do the same sort of thing with the Scale Out setting for that same overlayed input, as necessary.

[NOTE: There is currently a bug in the V1.1x software that causes the Scale Out selection to be changed unexpectedly at power up, something like 75% of the time, for the input that was last selected prior to power down (and is thus the input first selected at power up). Anthem is aware of this one.]

If you want to program the remote to adjust a given input into that set of settings it is tougher. As far as I know, the only combo of discrete codes to force the input to a specific Crop Input or Scale Out setting -- when you are not sure what the current setting might be -- involves opening the Video Source Adjust menu (press and hold "7" key for several seconds), and then navigating within that menu by arrow keys to the correct entry, and then pressing "Select".

Selecting it manually is easier: Shortcuts to both Crop Input and Scale Out can be found under the "Mode" key. But those only let you adjust up or down (using the arrow keys) from whatever the current selection happens to be.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3862 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 07:32 AM
Senior Member
 
dknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Roswell, GA, USA
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You can store one set of Custom cropping info for each overlayed input -- via the Video Source Adjust menu while that input is currently selected -- and if you'd like you can make Custom cropping be the default Crop Input setting for a given overlayed input (i.e., DVD2, etc.). Then you can program your remote to switch to that overlayed input when needed.

You can do the same sort of thing with the Scale Out setting for that same overlayed input, as necessary.

Overlayed inputs sounds like EXACTLY what I need, thanks! Hopefully Anthem will have a fix for the random startup problem you described shortly.

-Dave
dknight is offline  
post #3863 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AnthemAVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Currently a AVM30 user, and want to get into a AVM50, my dealer offered to take my AVM30 and he would give me a new AVM50 for $2500 bucks, do you think it is worth it?

Michael
AnthemAVM is offline  
post #3864 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 03:37 PM
Senior Member
 
abc999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philippines
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I dont think you can get the avm50 much lower than its MSRP therefore with a trade in value of around 2200 for the avm30, I think its a fair deal considering your dealer still has to sell it .
abc999 is offline  
post #3865 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 04:01 PM
Member
 
m396 #00-011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthemAVM View Post

Currently a AVM30 user, and want to get into a AVM50, my dealer offered to take my AVM30 and he would give me a new AVM50 for $2500 bucks, do you think it is worth it?

Michael


Deffinetly. Used AVM 30's are going for around $1800-1900. Unless you wanted to wait and do the AVM30-HD upgrade that will cost $1700-2000.
m396 #00-011 is offline  
post #3866 of 42980 Old 02-02-2007, 06:08 PM
Newbie
 
Shaktijess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A thought re: stretching a 2:33 image to get a properly proportioned image (no stretch) that will just fill a 16:9 screen, IOW a 1:85 aspect ratio. Can I just program the D2 (actually the AVM 50) to convert the image to a 1:85 aspect ration without doing it manually whenever it sees a 2:33 image?( My dish 622 does this fine, darn shame the pio 1140 can't quite get it.)
Shaktijess is offline  
post #3867 of 42980 Old 02-03-2007, 11:32 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaktijess View Post

A thought re: stretching a 2:33 image to get a properly proportioned image (no stretch) that will just fill a 16:9 screen, IOW a 1:85 aspect ratio. Can I just program the D2 (actually the AVM 50) to convert the image to a 1:85 aspect ration without doing it manually whenever it sees a 2:33 image?( My dish 622 does this fine, darn shame the pio 1140 can't quite get it.)

I'm not sure you've quite twigged off on what's happening here yet.

If the image is a different shape than the screen you can't change the image to fill the screen without distorting it or losing some portion of it off the edges, or both. It won't all fit without distortion, no matter WHAT you do.

If you choose to crop it, you can expand it without distortion. If you choose to distort it, you can decide whether to do that uniformly or non-uniformly. And you can choose to do only SOME cropping and SOME distortion so as to require less distortion. But you can't eliminate the letter box bars (or pillar box bars) built into the source content without distortion and/or cropping unless the image is already BOTH letter boxed AND pillar boxed as with a 16:9 movie being shown in a 4:3 SDTV frame on a 16:9 HDTV display.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

In the Anthems, you can pre-set the way you would like images of a certain shape to be changed to better fill the screen. You can set one, specific, custom crop shape per input, and you can set what the Anthem does to expand that crop shape. And you can set any input to use such a pre-set by default.

But if you want to use that method only some of the time for some given input you will have to enable and disable it manually. The Anthem has no way of knowing whether an incoming 16:9 or 4:3 video signal actually contains an image of a different shape that's already been padded out (with letter or pillar boxes) to that 16:9 or 4:3 by the source.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

A 16:9 aspect ratio (16 units wide by 9 units tall) is 1.78 times as wide as it is tall (just do the math). Movies that have been designed to play on 16:9 TVs vary. But an HDTV video SIGNAL is going to be 16:9 regardless of what type of movie it is carrying, and an SDTV video SIGNAL is going to be 4:3 again regardless. The movie is padded out to fill that 16:9 or 4:3 shape by letter or pillar boxes that are already IN THE CONTENT.

Some movies look as if they are 16:9 but aren't. Some movies are actually 1.66 or 1.85 for example. A 1.66 movie actually has tiny pillar box bars on either side BUILT IN TO THE CONTENT to pad it out to 1.78. A 1.85 move, similarly, has tiny letter box bars top and bottom. The normal HDTV setups used by most folks have enough "overscan" that they don't actually see these, as they are lost under the edges of the screen. But if your video setup actually displays all pixels then you WILL see these.

Meanwhile, cinematic movie content is generally "wider than wide screen". The 2.35 aspect ratio is a common one, but by no means the only one. Cinematic aspect ratios of 2.20:1, 2.40:1, and 2.55:1 are also quite common, and "Cinemascope" aspect ratios can be even WIDER.

Many people just watch these at 16:9 = 1.78:1, leaving the necessary letter box bars on screen so as to pad the movie image top and bottom to that 1.78 shape. Others do what you want to do and apply a combination of cropping and distortion (in some balance) to fill the screen. For most such folks, the setting they use for a 2.35 movie is also applied to a 2.20, or 2.40, or 2.55 movie without realizing that it is not so "correct". And then when they watch a Cinemascope movie they STILL see letter box bars and get annoyed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The Anthems only have 16:9 and 4:3 crops built in. Anything fancier than that you will need to enter yourself. Whatever shape you crop out of the input, the Anthems can be set to expand (either uniformly or non-uniformly) until it can't be expanded any more without losing more image under some edge, or the Anthems will pad with Letter/Pillar Box bars as necessary to match the 16:9 shape of your screen.

But you'll have to decide when to turn on your Custom cropping.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #3868 of 42980 Old 02-03-2007, 05:14 PM
Member
 
ddimberio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am in the "hunt" for a new projector. What do you gents recommend? I am an AVM-50 owner.
ddimberio is offline  
post #3869 of 42980 Old 02-03-2007, 07:00 PM
Newbie
 
Shaktijess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, thanks for your patience , Bob- i do understand that I will either lose some image or have some distortion, or a combination of both. I don't mind losing some image on the sides. My question was, can I set the Anthem to do it automatically, given a 2:35 source, without having to do it manually "by eye." It doesn't matter so much really , as long as I can do it, which you have nicely indicated can be done. Thanks again. I'll probably get one.
Shaktijess is offline  
post #3870 of 42980 Old 02-03-2007, 07:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
drhankz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddimberio View Post

I am in the "hunt" for a new projector. What do you gents recommend? I am an AVM-50 owner.

Ruby or Pearl is my two cent recommendation.

Then there will be a DIAMOND in September.
drhankz is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Receivers Amplifiers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off