Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1387 - AVS Forum
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post #41581 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Weinman View Post

ThxTheater,

...nope...just 6.0 set-up (the two surround and one back are Sunfire's)

Ouch, those poor panels! ARC will be trying to boost your bass response by up to 6 dB to fill in what the panels can't reproduce (20 - 45 Hz region). I'm not sure if the resulting bass quality would be pleasing, but certainly not what you are used to hearing and may stress the panels. I strongly suggest getting a sub if you're going to use these speakers for home theater.

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post #41582 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Room Gain typically around 1.

So there is plenty of room to increase "room gain" in ARC if you want to bring up the bottom end of the curve.

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post #41583 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 08:07 AM
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Danne2,
ARC can't do its job if you bunch the mic positions together like that. It needs the spacing of mic positions to distinguish room response from the inherent output of the speakers.

My point was that if you moved the REW mic around you'd see the same variation that ARC is finding. It's MUCH easier to generate flat response for a single mic location than for a spread over a typical listening area. But since the coupling with the room can vary significantly over distances as small as 12 inches, even if you are only ever going to sit in one spot you'll have problems as you shift your head around in the seat or lean forward.

The genius of ARC is that it broadens the sweet spot.
--Bob


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post #41584 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Room Gain typically around 1.

So there is plenty of room to increase "room gain" in ARC if you want to bring up the bottom end of the curve.
His concern, as I understand it, is that ARC is reporting too much output at those frequencies compared to what he thinks is real. And so ARC is "mistakenly" trimming output down there.

What I'm suggesting is that ARCs Measurements are correct due to variant bass coupling at the different mic locations. I.e., ARC is picking up a "real" room response issue and addressing it.

His low Room Gain measurement would be typical of a room with substantial bass treatments (or a larger room). And indeed telling ARC to raise Room Gain a dB or 2 may produce a more pleasing result. But the starting point is to believe that ARC is "doing it right" in the first place so he can trust its results.
--Bob


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post #41585 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

His concern, as I understand it, is that ARC is reporting too much output at those frequencies compared to what he thinks is real. And so ARC is "mistakenly" trimming output down there.

What I'm suggesting is that ARCs Measurements are correct due to variant bass coupling at the different mic locations. I.e., ARC is picking up a "real" room response issue and addressing it.

His low Room Gain measurement would be typical of a room with substantial bass treatments (or a larger room). And indeed telling ARC to raise Room Gain a dB or 2 may produce a more pleasing result. But the starting point is to believe that ARC is "doing it right" in the first place so he can trust its results.
--Bob

Bob, I'm really curious as to what the perceived frequency boost range is. Maggies just don't go very deep. They are by nature and their technology not designed to go low and need a sub to complement them for the lower frequencies. The Maggies he has are probably -3 at 45Hz or so. I'm just curious if we're seeing a true bump in the bass region or elsewhere.

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post #41586 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

His concern, as I understand it, is that ARC is reporting too much output at those frequencies compared to what he thinks is real. And so ARC is "mistakenly" trimming output down there.

What I'm suggesting is that ARCs Measurements are correct due to variant bass coupling at the different mic locations. I.e., ARC is picking up a "real" room response issue and addressing it.

His low Room Gain measurement would be typical of a room with substantial bass treatments (or a larger room). And indeed telling ARC to raise Room Gain a dB or 2 may produce a more pleasing result. But the starting point is to believe that ARC is "doing it right" in the first place so he can trust its results.
--Bob

Yes, I must check further, but it might very well be that ARC is correct. The problem is still the same (too much output below 50Hz) and the reason would then be due to averaging results from other mic positions. But I want it perfect in one position, the multisub setup do perform a decent enough result in other positions anyway. So I have a hard time getting a perfect sweetspot unless I measure all 5 meas. in the same position (in the sweet spot).
Yes, the room is very heavily bass treated (due to concrete cellar).

Increasing ARC gain can be done, but I have also just tried raising the subs a couple of db (XO at 100Hz) which sounds promising. Raising the ARC Room gain will raise the FR much higher up in freqency, think it goes up to 3-400Hz or something like that.

Have not seen any good advice how to think about the ARC Room gain. Will it put a lot of strain on the Fronts Amp, or is (Gain=2) just like raising the volume a couple of dB on the D2v ?
What are considered a normal Room gain from ARC ?
And why did I not even get 1 in Room Gain ? Why is room bass treatment causing that?

Thanks for the help.
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post #41587 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post

Bob, I'm really curious as to what the perceived frequency boost range is. Maggies just don't go very deep. They are by nature and their technology not designed to go low and need a sub to complement them for the lower frequencies. The Maggies he has are probably -3 at 45Hz or so. I'm just curious if we're seeing a true bump in the bass region or elsewhere.

You're confusing replies. This one is about the guy with subs, not Maggies.

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post #41588 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

You're confusing replies. This one is about the guy with subs, not Maggies.

LOL! Thanks AVfile! smile.gif

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post #41589 of 43106 Old 09-10-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danne2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

His concern, as I understand it, is that ARC is reporting too much output at those frequencies compared to what he thinks is real. And so ARC is "mistakenly" trimming output down there.

What I'm suggesting is that ARCs Measurements are correct due to variant bass coupling at the different mic locations. I.e., ARC is picking up a "real" room response issue and addressing it.

His low Room Gain measurement would be typical of a room with substantial bass treatments (or a larger room). And indeed telling ARC to raise Room Gain a dB or 2 may produce a more pleasing result. But the starting point is to believe that ARC is "doing it right" in the first place so he can trust its results.
--Bob

Yes, I must check further, but it might very well be that ARC is correct. The problem is still the same (too much output below 50Hz) and the reason would then be due to averaging results from other mic positions. But I want it perfect in one position, the multisub setup do perform a decent enough result in other positions anyway. So I have a hard time getting a perfect sweetspot unless I measure all 5 meas. in the same position (in the sweet spot).
Yes, the room is very heavily bass treated (due to concrete cellar).

Increasing ARC gain can be done, but I have also just tried raising the subs a couple of db (XO at 100Hz) which sounds promising. Raising the ARC Room gain will raise the FR much higher up in freqency, think it goes up to 3-400Hz or something like that.

Have not seen any good advice how to think about the ARC Room gain. Will it put a lot of strain on the Fronts Amp, or is (Gain=2) just like raising the volume a couple of dB on the D2v ?
What are considered a normal Room gain from ARC ?
And why did I not even get 1 in Room Gain ? Why is room bass treatment causing that?

Thanks for the help.

Room Gain doesn't go up that high in Frequency. It kicks in around the Crossover region and below. You can see exactly what it is doing by experimenting with the charts. Make a copy of your solutions file so you don't mess up your current stuff by mistake, then open the copy, go into Targets, try a different Room Gain value, accept the change and re-Calculate. No need to re-Measure, and of course don't re-Upload unless you really want that modified solution put in the Anthem. This is quick enough that you can do lots of experimental changes like this in no time at all.

Room Gain will appear as the shallow hump in the Targets curves -- i.e., an increase above the basic volume level of the solution -- at and below the Crossover frequencies. The basic volume level of the solution can be seen in the flat part of the Target curves in the mid-range frequencies to the right of the Crossovers. The Room Gain value is simply the height of the peak of that shallow hump, in dB, over the basic volume level. The effect of Room Gain is exactly what you would expect from the shape of the Target curves.

ARC attempts to Measure the inherent Room Gain in your room and preserve it as a "desirable" room response characteristic, even as it is trying to stamp out all the other room response stuff.

Typical listening rooms have Room Gain in the range of 2-4dB, and folks mixing movie sound tracks tend to assume that. (There is no such consensus among folks mixing music discs, but the general Rule of Thumb is perhaps 1dB less Room Gain is a good fit for those).

Heavily treated rooms (or unusually large rooms) will have lower, inherent Room Gain -- around 1dB is common. And for those, telling ARC to use a somewhat higher Room Gain in its solution (say 2dB or 2.5dB) may produce a more pleasing result -- less like you are in an anechoic chamber. That should also answer your question about why bass treatments reduce Room Gain: Room Gain arises due to interactions between the standing waves in various directions and frequencies. It is part of what produces the impression of being in a "good" listening room as opposed to outdoors or in an anechoic chamber. Bass treatments are designed to make the room MORE like an anechoic chamber, so as to eliminate nasty resonance peaks and cancellation nulls. But that also reduces Room Gain.

ARC can be confused by unusual speaker output so it has limits on what Room Gain values it will use. For example a dip at the wrong place might look like negative Room Gain (which has no useful physical meaning), so ARC won't choose a Room Gain below 0dB. And a pronounced peak at the wrong point can look like excessive Room Gain, so ARC won't choose a Room Gain above 4dB (which shows as a number just slightly less than 4dB for technical reasons). You can, if you wish set a Room Gain value higher than 4dB, but ARC won't do that on its own.

Matching the Measured curves to the selected Target curves -- i.e., applying correction -- also has built in limits. For example, ARC won't create more than +6dB of boost when trying to fill a dip -- to protect the speakers and amps. Raising Room Gain of course makes dips found in that region even deeper, so it is possible to raise Room Gain so much that ARC can no no longer fill in dips completely (given its protection limit).

If you post your charts here, folks will be able to give you additional suggestions. Be sure to post your Targets window with them so folks know what settings built those charts.

But my recommendations WITHOUT seeing the charts would be:

1) Follow the rules for ARC mic positioning: #1 at center seating, alternate left and right of #1 thereafter, keep at least 24" separation between any two mic positions (whether or not sequential), include some forward and back displacement as well as the side to side, point the mic straight up, position the mic tip at seated ear height, and keep the mic tip away from blocking or reflecting surfaces (e.g., raise the mic tip a few inches or move it forward about a foot to get it away from a seat back).

2) If Room Gain still comes in around +1dB, try changing that to +2.5dB

3) Do *NOT* fiddle with any adjustments in the Subs that would alter what ARC would have heard during Measurement. Or if you do, then know that you have to re-Measure from scratch. Changing the output of the Subs doesn't just affect their solution, but also how ARC blends them with the main speakers. So re-Measure if you change any knob settings on the Subs. And don't fiddle with the values ARC Uploads into Setup. Instead, if you need to tweak, do that in the Targets window in the ARC app, and then re-Calculate and re-Upload. NOTE: It is OK to use the "temporary" level adjustments via the buttons found around the arrow keys on the remote -- that would be for personal taste or to deal with some poorly mastered content. Just be sure to reset them for other content.
--Bob


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post #41590 of 43106 Old 09-11-2013, 07:19 AM
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Bob, any update on a new release for the D2v?   Last one had the problem with surrounds.


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post #41591 of 43106 Old 09-11-2013, 09:43 AM
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^ Nothing that I've heard about.
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post #41592 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 01:10 AM
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Bob

Did a 9 pos mic measurement, with the sweet spot in the middle, this gave a result similar to what I got in just the sweetspot with REW. Not exactly the same, but close enough.
The big difference with doing like that compared to doing 5 mic meas in only the sweet spot, was above improvment at hight frequencies, the voices were clearly easier to "hear" and was not as muddy, which is as you wrote due to ARC being able to pick up the room response.

Room Gain was set to 0 by ARC, I raised it to 2. But to me it seems like the measured room gain in the ARC graphs are about half to what is in the Target window. I have Room gain=1, then it seems to be 0,5db in the graph, RG=2 gives 1db gain in the ARC graph. I settled with RG=2, and raise the bass a db or two with the remote if necessary.
Also, I don't agree with that Room gain only affects from XO and down, when I zoom in the ARC graphs, I see that the target curve starts to climb at the 350-400Hz area, but the big lift might be lower down.

Another comment I have is about the advice Bob has made earlier about averaging the sub distances to listening position and use that as sub distance in the setup menu. That did not work out for me. Much better was to use the distance to the sub farthest away as sub distance, with delay=0 on that sub. Then as the sub comes closer to listening position, more delay was used on the subs. This was done with measurements and gave the best result.
After all subs was dialed in correctly, the phase in the Setup menu was used to fine tune the right phase for the subs relative the front speakers.
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post #41593 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 10:55 AM
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^ Your case is different because you have the ability to apply separate delay to each Subwoofer. I agree with the approach you used when doing that. Most folks with more than one Sub have to use just the single, distance setting in the Anthem to implement one common delay for all their Subs. And average distance works well for that.

In your case, be sure that you do this distance/delay adjustment *BEFORE* you Measure for ARC as any changes you make in that will alter the combined Sub output that ARC hears during Measurement.

At bass frequencies, the Subs are not "localizable", so the distance adjustment (delay setting or time alignment) is not a factor in properly positioning sounds in the surround field (as is the case for the main speakers). However, it does affect the phase relationship between the Subs themselves and also between the Subs and the mains. When you use an average distance, and then adjust each Sub separately in Phase to match the mains, the Phase relationship between the Subs themselves may not be optimal, but ARC will hear that (since it plays all the Subs together) and see it as a variation in the combined Sub output -- which it then corrects. The key to using an average distance setting is that, after setting that, you must now manually adjust each Sub's Phase for best match with the mains -- i.e. one Sub powered at a time and using a built-in Phase control on each Sub in turn. Only then can you do your ARC Measurement since what ARC hears for the combo of Subs is the combined output -- including any such adjustments in Phase relationship between them.

ETA: Also, if you post your charts and Targets window it will be easier for us to help with what you are seeing for Room Gain.
--Bob


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post #41594 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 12:45 PM
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what is the latest version of ARC that works with the D2 (not V). I downloaded the version on the Anthem site, but it says it is for D2v..not the D2. I was able to take test measurements with it, but keep getting an error when it tried to upload.

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post #41595 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

what is the latest version of ARC that works with the D2 (not V). I downloaded the version on the Anthem site, but it says it is for D2v..not the D2. I was able to take test measurements with it, but keep getting an error when it tried to upload.

ARC v3.0.2 from the Anthem web site is the correct version for the D2 as well. Your D2 should have firmware v1.33 installed.

Does it begin the Upload and fail part way, or does it fail to Upload at all? If you are also using the RS-232 port for remote control, be sure to set it's settings back to their defaults in Setup while using ARC. The setting regarding echoing input back to the sending device is often the issue. Also check the properties of your serial output on the computer.
--Bob


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post #41596 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 03:59 PM
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It gets stuck at around 10%. Stayed there for about an hour until I hit abort.

What should the default settings be set at?

I think I have 1.47 firmware...but I never have had a problem with ARC on it before.

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post #41597 of 43106 Old 09-12-2013, 06:20 PM
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It gets stuck at around 10%. Stayed there for about an hour until I hit abort.

What should the default settings be set at?

I think I have 1.47 firmware...but I never have had a problem with ARC on it before.

See the picture of that RS-232 settings menu in the Setup menu portion of the Manual.

Firmware v1.47 should work just as well.

Odds are you've got a problem with the serial connection. Is there another computer you can use to do the Upload?
--Bob


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post #41598 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 07:29 AM
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Thanks. I got it. Needed to lower baud rate to 9600 and it worked.

I am looking to re-position my sub (Velodyne DD15) from the front stage wall to somewhere more towards the back of the theater. I have a spot to the right of the back row next to the wall that I am trying. Here is the response that I get when I move it to this location:

[IMG


How does it compare to the original location?

[IMG

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post #41599 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 07:52 AM
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Does anyone have any information related to the new (and improved?) version of ARC, the ARC M1, that is been detailed as a specification for the new MRX 310, 510, and 710 AVRs supposed to be released today and shipping in October?

Cheers.
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Does anyone have any information related to the new (and improved?) version of ARC, the ARC M1, that is been detailed as a specification for the new MRX 310, 510, and 710 AVRs supposed to be released today and shipping in October?

Cheers.

Forgive my ignorance on this but the M1 was Anthem's amp, wasn't it? I'd be very interested to know about any forthcoming revisions to ARC.

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F
Forgive my ignorance on this but the M1 was Anthem's amp, wasn't it? I'd be very interested to know about any forthcoming revisions to ARC.

Interesting tidbit is available here: CEDIA 2013 VIP Edition

Cheers.
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post #41602 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 09:34 AM
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Thanks. I got it. Needed to lower baud rate to 9600 and it worked.

I am looking to re-position my sub (Velodyne DD15) from the front stage wall to somewhere more towards the back of the theater. I have a spot to the right of the back row next to the wall that I am trying. Here is the response that I get when I move it to this location: . . . .

Neither position looks great. Your original position is showing excessive Boundary Gain, leading to the high output as you get down to 20Hz. So repositioning the Sub makes sense. But the new position shows even worse results, with dramatic roll of in the lowest bass.

I suspect that in the course of moving the Velodyne you ended up using the wrong settings in it. You unplugged it of course, and it may be that you still have it set to default to one of the more restricted output curves as its default on power up.

Go into the Velodyne's setup page and check which settings are in effect. You want to pick the setting that disables its built-in parametric EQ (choice 6 as I recall). And in there you also want to make sure its built-in crossover processing is disabled. It's been a while, but my recollection was that you set the cursor on the crossover value in the upper left of the table for setting such stuff and then press Reset on the Velodyne's remote. If you've done it right ALL of the crossover related values should change to "N/A". Check the Velodyne manual. If you alter any settings in the Velodyne you will, of course, have to re-Measure for ARC.

While you are at it, make sure it's choice of power on settings and power on volume are set correctly, so that you don't get screwy results from the Sub after a power failure. Double check that by unplugging the Velodyne and making sure it comes back up with the desired settings once you plug it back in. Note that the settings table choice and volume choice that you can make on its "home page" are *NOT* remembered across power cycles. The power up defaults need to be set on its settings page.
--Bob


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post #41603 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Does anyone have any information related to the new (and improved?) version of ARC, the ARC M1, that is been detailed as a specification for the new MRX 310, 510, and 710 AVRs supposed to be released today and shipping in October?

Cheers.
I'm guessing, and I do mean guessing it is a user interface refresh and USB/Ethernet support. They would also need to update for the new improved processors in the receivers. I kind of doubt any of the improvements other then possibly the user interface will make it to the pre-pros but I'd wouldn't mind being surprised by a performance improvement. Sure would be nice if some of the hardware improvements trickle up to the pre-pros. Multiple subwoofer channels, 4K video, IP control and USB are all on my upgrade list.

Tom


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post #41604 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 10:43 AM
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Brian,

If your issues are resulting from HDCP copy protection problems as Bob suggested a while back, the following may help. One way potentially to "cure" HDCP issues is with a ViewHD 2 port 1x2 powered mini HDMI splitter. If you put this little $24 device between your Oppo and your D2v, it might work around your issue if it is in fact a HDCP copy protection issue. For what it is worth, I have a Slingbox 500 that got HDCP errors on most channels when I used the Slingbox's HDMI connection (Sling usually suggests connecting the Slingbox bothe with HDMI and component connections to deal with HDCP issues). I used this extremely small ViewHD splitter to split my HDMI out from a Tivo Roamio to my Sling and my TV and voila, no more HDCP problems -- the Sling now works on all channels at all times using just its HDMI connection. Just a thought.

Alan

Alan, Stew, Tom and others:

So, my saga is seemingly over on the whole "HDMI2 output from D2V to 7inch rack monitor" issue - the Cliff's Notes version is that I now have things working, thanks to my HDMI Detective Plus from Gefen. Here's the long story for anyone interested in my perfectly good waste of the better part of 4 days:

I tried many many things, so many I won't recount all of them - but I did purchase the ViewHD Mini and actually one of their slightly larger boxes, and neither one of them did the trick. I used them between the D2V and the little Xenarc monitor, they did nothing to fix the problem. I then tried them one at a time, between the D2V and the Main Sharp display, and still nothing. Then I dug around the basement for hours and found the HDMI Detective Plus. After testing many other things to make sure I isolated the symptoms accurately and provded "repeatable failure", I then placed the HDMI Detective Plus between the D2V and the Main big-boy Sharp display, at the Sharp end of course, and programmed the Sharp Elite's EDID to it. Then I connected everything and did hours of testing different power on sequences, video outputs, etc. In short, the HDMI Detective Plus is working to allow me to power off the Main Sharp display and simply use the little Xenarc, with ALL sources (Oppo included!).

I believe the reason it is working is that even with the Main Display powered off, the HDMI Detective is answering the request for an EDID that is coming from the D2V - in fact, it's "tricking" the D2V into thinking there is an active display connected. When the D2V sees that, it stops trying to "negotiate" the HDMI handshake, and it simply sends the signal to both outputs. Of course, HDMI1 out is off, but HDMI2 is on and it shows the display just fine on the little 7 inch Xenarc. So, the question might also be asked "why didn't the ViewHD devices do anything in this case?"....I believe it is because my issues were not with HDCP per se, but only with the EDID situation. The ViewHD's don't do ANYTHING for EDID.

By the way, though I now have this working, and have verified EVERY video source works with it, including DVD's, Bluray's, AppleTV, DirecTV Tivo, OTA Series 3 Tivo, etc., I do have 1 "gotcha" that I cannot get rid of. The issue is with 3D sources. [Recall that I do indeed have the 3D Upgrade board in my D2V]. The HDMI Detective Plus will pass the 3D signal just fine, actually watched Avatar in 3D through the thing for hours on the Main Display (of course the little guy shuts off when in "Through" mode like this, I don't need it anyway for such things). HOWEVER! I have to manually switch one of the Dip switches on the HDMI Detective Plus before powering on the main TV in order for 3D viewing to work. The dip switch I have to toggle corresponds to the "HDCP Passthrough" option on the HDMI Detective Plus. For ALL other viewing of every other source and normal Blurays (not 3D), DVD's, everything, the switch for PassThrough should NOT be engaged. So, 95% of the time, I can just leave it in the standard position. But when using the "Through" mode (what I call my Blu-3D virtual input on the D2V), the main TV will not work at all if I don't engage HDCP PassThrough on the HDMI Detective Plus. And the evil little thing is that you cannot fix it while the TV is still on. It won't actually change anything until you powercycle the TV. So, thinking in terms of the end goal here with my fancy shmancy MX-5000 URC remote, I will need to build a Macro for the "Watch 3D Bluray" activity, such that it peforms an "If/Else" sequence where it checks the power on the TV, and if it's currently OFF, it just proceeds normally to power the right things on in order of course like always and do the normal routines. But if the TV is currently ON, the macro needs to do something like this:

Power off the TV (discrete)
Power off the D2V Main Zone (discrete)
Immediately display a reminder on the MX-5000, or play a .wav file of me saying something like "Remember to get off your ass and go flip the 4th dip switch on the HDMI Detective Plus while I pause this Macro for you."
Pause the macro with a 1 minute Delay (yes I'm slow walking 12 feet to the display)
Power On the TV (discrete)
Power On the D2V Main Zone (discrete)
Switch to "Blu-3D" input
Delay for 10 seconds
Power on the Oppo 95 (discrete)
Play...

Something like that...so, the saga is at a point where I've troubleshot it to death - Oppo still has a case opened and will be pursuing a fix if they can find one, but again, I'm not holding my breath and I need to move on with my URC programming now - have much to do there. While I was at it, and everything was pulled out, I took the opportunity to upgrade my PS Audio PWD to the Mark II board and all...been sitting on that for 2 years! Just got things back together and man do I like the new sound - I had to sit back and listen to some tunes and remember why the hell it is I put up with this crazy hobby :-)

I'll hold on to the ViewHD boxes, just in case someday I need them for another situation - call it karma, cause if I hadn't done the same years ago with the HDMI Detective Plus, I wouldn't have solved this one. It's a band-aid solution, no doubt, but I can't wait around for Anthem or Oppo or whomever to fix the root issue. I suspect even if they do, it is ripe to get screwed up again somewhere down the line.

Cheers gents! And thanks again to all who helped me wrap my feable brain around this one.
-Brian
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post #41605 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 10:59 AM
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Neither position looks great. Your original position is showing excessive Boundary Gain, leading to the high output as you get down to 20Hz. So repositioning the Sub makes sense. But the new position shows even worse results, with dramatic roll of in the lowest bass.

I suspect that in the course of moving the Velodyne you ended up using the wrong settings in it. You unplugged it of course, and it may be that you still have it set to default to one of the more restricted output curves as its default on power up.

Go into the Velodyne's setup page and check which settings are in effect. You want to pick the setting that disables its built-in parametric EQ (choice 6 as I recall). And in there you also want to make sure its built-in crossover processing is disabled. It's been a while, but my recollection was that you set the cursor on the crossover value in the upper left of the table for setting such stuff and then press Reset on the Velodyne's remote. If you've done it right ALL of the crossover related values should change to "N/A". Check the Velodyne manual. If you alter any settings in the Velodyne you will, of course, have to re-Measure for ARC.

While you are at it, make sure it's choice of power on settings and power on volume are set correctly, so that you don't get screwy results from the Sub after a power failure. Double check that by unplugging the Velodyne and making sure it comes back up with the desired settings once you plug it back in. Note that the settings table choice and volume choice that you can make on its "home page" are *NOT* remembered across power cycles. The power up defaults need to be set on its settings page.
--Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the detailed response. I did check the Velodyne settings, and they have not changed with unplugging. Preset is set to 6, and all of the lowpass frequency and slope settings are set to Off. Any other thoughts?
Could I perhaps use the Velodyne to boost the low frequency that has the dramatic roll off?

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post #41606 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 11:15 AM
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^ It still looks to me like something screwy is going on in the Velodyne settings, but if you can't find it, then I suggest you try shifting the position of the Sub -- even rotating it in place, while using he Quick Measure tool to see what's going on with its low bass output. The DD15 is able to do MUCH better in low bass -- without any special boost settings -- then your new chart shows.
--Bob


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post #41607 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 11:51 AM
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Here is the Velodyne setup..see anything that looks out of whack? It may be positioning...hope it is not, because with the theater layout, there are only a few spots that the DD15 can fit. I moved it out of the front corner mainly for aesthetics. It's positioned between the riser and right wall now..slightly behind the second row of seats. Totally out of the way..but I do want it to sound good.


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post #41608 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 01:21 PM
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^ That looks fine to me. I recommend using Theater/Music level 8 in Setup 6 (i.e., maximum Servo) for highest accuracy and musicality at the expense of somewhat lower peak output levels. But as you've discovered, getting lots of output from the DD15 is not a problem.

I can't explain your Measured results in the new position. You should definitely try Quick Measure and some modest repositioning to see if you can correct that problem in the low bass output. At those frequencies, even inches matter. Indeed, just try rotating it in place first. But as things stand now you've lost at least an octave off the bottom of its bass response.

ETA: On the home page for the Velodyne, double check that it really does have Setup 6 selected at that default Volume. I'm thinking that maybe you accidentally hit the button to change to a different Setup AFTER it powered up.
--Bob


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post #41609 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TKO1 View Post

Interesting tidbit is available here: CEDIA 2013 VIP Edition

Cheers.

Superlative. and thanks for sharing that! The 1 and M were inverted so the new system will be called ARC 1M. Look forward to learning more about it. I'm assuming first question will be--will this be a retro-fit to existing D2v/50v users and if I'm inferring this correctly, it would be a "no" as it's relying on ethernet connectivity?

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post #41610 of 43106 Old 09-13-2013, 03:53 PM
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The new ARC stuff is for the new receivers and includes ethernet/usb and a more colorful UI. Processing is improved with new MRX compared to old (more DSP power) but still not as high as what you'd get from the D2V/AVM editions.
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