Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1390 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #41671 of 44573 Old 09-23-2013, 11:12 AM
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^ I'll send you a PM.
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post #41672 of 44573 Old 09-23-2013, 12:11 PM
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^ For folks playing along at home, it appears GONZALC3's D2v is *NOT* bricked. At this point it looks like a problem providing power to both the D2v and his Subwoofer.
--Bob

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post #41673 of 44573 Old 09-23-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
 
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

 
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Has anyone compared PQ of their DVR output into the Oppo HDMI input versus directly into the Anthem pre-pro itself? I'd like to know before I do a major re-wire of my setup. Keep hearing reports that the DVR output looks cleaner if processed via the Oppo then into the Anthem versus directly from the DVR into the Anthem. Not sure what to make of these reports...


Where are you seeing these reports about Anthem PQ ?
In general, I read that passing the signal through the Oppo produces a cleaner picture than through a pre-pro/receiver itself. Granted, the Anthem was not named specifically, but in general, it was said the Oppo does a better job on the DVR signals than if the DVR is connected directly to a processor, as is the case normally.

These reports were made  in the Oppo 103/105 forums...

The Anthem and the OPPO have similar quality level of video processing. There are differences of course since the processing system is different, but they are subtle. The differences are not big enough to justify jumping one way or the other. I suggest you keep things simple and connect the DVR direct to the Anthem. Set the DVR to "native" output so that it puts out 480i, 720p, and 1080i automatically according to whatever channel you are watching at the moment. That insures the Anthem is doing the heavy lifting for video.
--Bob

 

That's how i have it now and have always set it up that way. I was a bit paranoid when i read several reports in the 103/105 forums that indicated the superiority of processing via the Oppo versus the users AVR. Anthem was not mentioned specifically as one of those processors.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #41674 of 44573 Old 09-23-2013, 01:42 PM
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Hi, everyone. I'm using MRX300 with power amp. Now want to upgrade to 50v or D2v. If I used it for movie mostly, is 50v already enough for me? Is it big difference between 50v and D2v if movie playback? Thanks~

Oh now that's a tough one, Bob's very diplomatic, but also knowledgeable and as far as I can tell a strait shooter. But I'll add my $0.02.... Which may well be heresy in this thread wink.gif

When I was in college, or maybe I should say starting college, I really "bought into" the whole audiophile thing, I'd read info and reviews on all sorts of things (OK, not cable elevators wink.gif), but I could see the "sense" that brands like Audioquest advertised. As I made it through college and gained the "tools" to evaluate some of those claims a bit better (more scientifically) I realized that the sense they made was because they were not inherently untrue. Things like skin effect do exist and matter, they just don't matter for conductors the size of cables at audio frequencies (in the microwave design the certainly matter).

So with the audiophile shenanigans out of my system (thankfully while I was in college and too poor to afford and have wasted any money on them) I still was a believer in audio quality and quality components. So first thing out of college with my new job and I got my self an AVM20V2 and an MCA50.

Now here comes the heresy part. Although honestly I don't think anyone will really call it that, what I've learned since having these quality components is that I'm not an audiophile. I mean I appreciate good quality audio, and I've got a decent ear (I can tell an MP3 from a FLAC, even at high bitrates depending on content), but that ear, that caring just doesn't extend to things like differences between amps. At one point, when I moved into my house and was setting up my theater I had on hand my MCA50, some Crown XLS602s, and a Sonic Impact T-Amp. Now this is probably largely due to my efficient Klipsch speakers, but I could not tell the difference between any of them. They all sounded great with great source material.

That knowledge set me up for a bit of a dilemma when my trusty AVM20 started showing it's age (HDMI mainly). I really liked my AVM20, the build quality, the support, it's just a well-made, well thought out piece of gear. Having experienced that I "dreaded" the thought of going back to an AVR. At the same time, even the 50V IMO costs too much, though a lot of that comes from the fact that if I wanted a Video Processor I need one much more robust than the one in the Anthems. IMO a ~$3000 "AVM40V" with HDMI passthrough and HD audio support would be about the perfect machine. But alas.

I struggled for a while thought about an MRX, but couldn't get past the mental block of giving up a real AVM for one. Eventually I timed it right and got in on a deal/sale and got myself a 50V. I really like it (though at the same time, the HDMI "peculiarities" are annoying sometimes though I've sorted those 99%).

Now I'm not saying I don't believe the 50V is better, really the reasons I used to convince myself it was "worth" the premium over the MRX is that the ARC implementation is more powerful and the AVM/D series are more upgradeable (as proven by the 3D upgrade I've received). I personally think the D2 is a much tougher sell over the 50V than the 50V over the MRX, the D2V vs the 50V (IIRC) really comes down to the audio component selection and audio upsampling (basically "audiophile" upgrades, and I'm not meaning that in a derogatory way), where as the 50V has more functional benefits. But I think they are all far above average audio quality wise, so you're spending for smaller and smaller differences.

So where am I going with all this? Personally, if I had an MRX, I think I'd stick with it and be happy, and put the money you don't spend on the 50V or D2V into speakers, display, acoustic treatments, media, games, maybe travel, or the bank/investments.
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^ There have been almost no posts here from folks who did a decent comparison of the 50v vs. the D2v for audio. Keep in mind that to do this you need to spend time to do an ARC setup for each, for example.

Out of curiosity, you wouldn't really want to do a separate ARC setup for each would you? Since each ARC measurement is slightly different due to the nature of audio/acoustics. Wouldn't you want to do the measurement and then just upload the "same" correction (same settings) to both? That way some rogue measurement doesn't influence your comparison one way or another?
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post #41675 of 44573 Old 09-23-2013, 01:51 PM
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^ The problem is that many of the older comparisons out there don't have an ARC setup EITHER WAY. Or have it for one but not the other.

Back in the day, ARC was serial # keyed to the processor, so you couldn't just move the solution from one to the other.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #41676 of 44573 Old 09-24-2013, 08:14 PM
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Dear Bob and Stanger,

Thanks for your advise. Then I decided to keep my MRX300 wink.gif
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post #41677 of 44573 Old 09-25-2013, 01:18 AM
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Dear Bob and Stanger,

Thanks for your advise. Then I decided to keep my MRX300 wink.gif

You may be more interested in stepping up to the vey soon to be released updated MRX510 & 710. They will give you an improved ARC implementation, at less than half the price of the 50v. Anthem to make official announcements at CEDIA in the next few days.
Regards, Mike.
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post #41678 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 07:53 AM
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Anthem have the NEW receivers on their web page. http://www.anthemav.com/

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post #41679 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 12:40 PM
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I just got the OK to reveal that I've been Beta Testing the new MRX 710 for some time. My testing has been focussed on using it in a 2.1 speaker configuration, with a Samsung 1080p plasma.

Of course I've been looking at it from the perspective of a D2v user, and I'd say the first description that comes to mind is "simple". For example, there's no way to configure a specific type of HDMI video output format -- with the sole exception of being able to force Deep Color output to 8-bit even if your Display is willing to accept more.

So you get EITHER (1) video pass-through, meaning your Source and your Display negotiate the video format in use, or (2) automatic video, meaning the MRX finds out what the Display says it wants and sends that -- which includes de-interlacing, upscaling, input to output format conversion, and frame rate conversion if the Display says it wants something different than what's coming in as video input from the Source.

As for audio, the new, ethernet-based ARC works just fine. One highlight of these new MRX units is that they include enough processor power to pretty much duplicate what ARC can accomplish on the AVM 50v and D2v. I don't know if it's fair to see they are entirely up to that level, but there's no longer the obvious difference in correction resources as was true between the D2v and the prior MRX line.

I set the new ARC a particularly tough challenge -- poor speaker positioning (particularly for the Sub) and a listening position deliberately set up off center -- about on-axis with the placement of Left Front, and over near a wall.

The new ARC handled all that just fine; hardly worked up a sweat. Measurement is faster (needs fewer sweep tones each time to lock in) and seems pretty robust -- no network glitches or issues with it rejecting test sweeps.

The new ARC Windows application includes an entirely redone UI. Among other things you can see the Measured curves for each mic location for each speaker. And in Targets, you also get a chart that shows you how the Target curve will change as you enter changes -- i.e., without having to accept the changes first.

They've also added the ability to Print results.



I won't derail this into a 2nd MRX thread, as the bulk of discussion on these three new units should of course go over there.

But if any of the AVM 50v / D2v crowd here have questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.



ETA: The new ARC retains the prior simplification for MRX users that MAX EQ Frequency is limited to no higher than 5KHz (which is also the default). You can lower it below that, but not raise it. This eliminates the confusion factor among MRX users as to whether the Measured data higher up than that is accurate enough to be used as a basis for treble correction.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #41680 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 01:05 PM
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I use SR-2 Serial Routers to enable multiple device control of RS232 components. wink.gif

I'm seeing some funkiness with my RS232 y-splitter cable, I think I'm gonna swing for one of these now. Thanks again.

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post #41681 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I just got the OK to reveal that I've been Beta Testing the new MRX 710 for some time. My testing has been focussed on using it in a 2.1 speaker configuration, with a Samsung 1080p plasma.

Of course I've been looking at it from the perspective of a D2v user, and I'd say the first description that comes to mind is "simple". For example, there's no way to configure a specific type of HDMI video output format -- with the sole exception of being able to force Deep Color output to 8-bit even if your Display is willing to accept more.

So you get EITHER (1) video pass-through, meaning your Source and your Display negotiate the video format in use, or (2) automatic video, meaning the MRX finds out what the Display says it wants and sends that -- which includes de-interlacing, upscaling, input to output format conversion, and frame rate conversion if the Display says it wants something different than what's coming in as video input from the Source.

As for audio, the new, ethernet-based ARC works just fine. One highlight of these new MRX units is that they include enough processor power to pretty much duplicate what ARC can accomplish on the AVM 50v and D2v. I don't know if it's fair to see they are entirely up to that level, but there's no longer the obvious difference in correction resources as was true between the D2v and the prior MRX line.

I set the new ARC a particularly tough challenge -- poor speaker positioning (particularly for the Sub) and a listing position deliberately set up off center -- about on-axis with the placement of Left Front, and over near a wall.

The new ARC handled all that just fine; hardly worked up a sweat. Measurement is faster (needs fewer sweep tones each time to lock in) and seems pretty robust -- no network glitches or issues with it rejecting test sweeps.

The new ARC Windows application includes an entirely redone UI. Among other things you can see the Measured curves for each mic location for each speaker. And in Targets, you also get a chart that shows you how the Target curve will change as you enter changes -- i.e., without having to accept the changes first.

They've also added the ability to Print results.



I won't derail this into a 2nd MRX thread, as the bulk of discussion on these three new units should of course go over there.

But if any of the AVM 50v / D2v crowd here have questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.



ETA: The new ARC retains the prior simplification for MRX users that MAX EQ Frequency is limited to no higher than 5KHz (which is also the default). You can lower it below that, but not raise it. This eliminates the confusion factor among MRX users as to whether the Measured data higher up than that is accurate enough to be used as a basis for treble correction.
--Bob

Thanks Bob,

appreciate the updates. Did you notice any silence/popping, even at a low volume, with the new versions when playing Redbook CDs over a digital input?

Wouldn't mind seeing some screen captures of the new ARC software ;-)

Cheers.
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post #41682 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 01:44 PM
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^ Not specifically with respect to CD playback (or any audio format for that matter). However I'm having some HDMI reliability problems between an OPPO 80 and the MRX 710. It is almost certainly a marginal HDMI cable, but we've deliberately not swapped that out for testing purposes -- i.e., does new MRX firmware handle it any better.

Although I'm comfortable talking about my testing results, I don't think I should post any screen shots just yet. Anthem deserves the courtesy of being allowed to be the first to publish such stuff -- in case there are any last minute changes in the graphics.
--Bob

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post #41683 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I just got the OK to reveal that I've been Beta Testing the new MRX 710 for some time. My testing has been focussed on using it in a 2.1 speaker configuration, with a Samsung 1080p plasma.
--Bob

YOU NEED TO START the MRX 310 - 510 -710 THREAD
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post #41684 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 03:35 PM
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Who me?

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post #41685 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 03:38 PM
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Who me?

YES YOU MUST START THE THREAD
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post #41686 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 03:41 PM
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Seriously, no. The thread really should be handled by someone who intends to use the MRX as their primary system.
--Bob

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post #41687 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I just got the OK to reveal that I've been Beta Testing the new MRX 710 for some time. My testing has been focussed on using it in a 2.1 speaker configuration, with a Samsung 1080p plasma.

Of course I've been looking at it from the perspective of a D2v user, and I'd say the first description that comes to mind is "simple". For example, there's no way to configure a specific type of HDMI video output format -- with the sole exception of being able to force Deep Color output to 8-bit even if your Display is willing to accept more.

So you get EITHER (1) video pass-through, meaning your Source and your Display negotiate the video format in use, or (2) automatic video, meaning the MRX finds out what the Display says it wants and sends that -- which includes de-interlacing, upscaling, input to output format conversion, and frame rate conversion if the Display says it wants something different than what's coming in as video input from the Source.

As for audio, the new, ethernet-based ARC works just fine. One highlight of these new MRX units is that they include enough processor power to pretty much duplicate what ARC can accomplish on the AVM 50v and D2v. I don't know if it's fair to see they are entirely up to that level, but there's no longer the obvious difference in correction resources as was true between the D2v and the prior MRX line.

I set the new ARC a particularly tough challenge -- poor speaker positioning (particularly for the Sub) and a listening position deliberately set up off center -- about on-axis with the placement of Left Front, and over near a wall.

The new ARC handled all that just fine; hardly worked up a sweat. Measurement is faster (needs fewer sweep tones each time to lock in) and seems pretty robust -- no network glitches or issues with it rejecting test sweeps.

The new ARC Windows application includes an entirely redone UI. Among other things you can see the Measured curves for each mic location for each speaker. And in Targets, you also get a chart that shows you how the Target curve will change as you enter changes -- i.e., without having to accept the changes first.

They've also added the ability to Print results.



I won't derail this into a 2nd MRX thread, as the bulk of discussion on these three new units should of course go over there.

But if any of the AVM 50v / D2v crowd here have questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.



ETA: The new ARC retains the prior simplification for MRX users that MAX EQ Frequency is limited to no higher than 5KHz (which is also the default). You can lower it below that, but not raise it. This eliminates the confusion factor among MRX users as to whether the Measured data higher up than that is accurate enough to be used as a basis for treble correction.
--Bob

This is great and perfect timing I am looking for a new receiver for my living room.
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post #41688 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 08:16 PM
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Oh now that's a tough one, Bob's very diplomatic, but also knowledgeable and as far as I can tell a strait shooter. But I'll add my $0.02.... Which may well be heresy in this thread wink.gif

When I was in college, or maybe I should say starting college, I really "bought into" the whole audiophile thing, I'd read info and reviews on all sorts of things (OK, not cable elevators wink.gif), but I could see the "sense" that brands like Audioquest advertised. As I made it through college and gained the "tools" to evaluate some of those claims a bit better (more scientifically) I realized that the sense they made was because they were not inherently untrue. Things like skin effect do exist and matter, they just don't matter for conductors the size of cables at audio frequencies (in the microwave design the certainly matter).

So with the audiophile shenanigans out of my system (thankfully while I was in college and too poor to afford and have wasted any money on them) I still was a believer in audio quality and quality components. So first thing out of college with my new job and I got my self an AVM20V2 and an MCA50.

Now here comes the heresy part. Although honestly I don't think anyone will really call it that, what I've learned since having these quality components is that I'm not an audiophile. I mean I appreciate good quality audio, and I've got a decent ear (I can tell an MP3 from a FLAC, even at high bitrates depending on content), but that ear, that caring just doesn't extend to things like differences between amps. At one point, when I moved into my house and was setting up my theater I had on hand my MCA50, some Crown XLS602s, and a Sonic Impact T-Amp. Now this is probably largely due to my efficient Klipsch speakers, but I could not tell the difference between any of them. They all sounded great with great source material.

That knowledge set me up for a bit of a dilemma when my trusty AVM20 started showing it's age (HDMI mainly). I really liked my AVM20, the build quality, the support, it's just a well-made, well thought out piece of gear. Having experienced that I "dreaded" the thought of going back to an AVR. At the same time, even the 50V IMO costs too much, though a lot of that comes from the fact that if I wanted a Video Processor I need one much more robust than the one in the Anthems. IMO a ~$3000 "AVM40V" with HDMI passthrough and HD audio support would be about the perfect machine. But alas.

I struggled for a while thought about an MRX, but couldn't get past the mental block of giving up a real AVM for one. Eventually I timed it right and got in on a deal/sale and got myself a 50V. I really like it (though at the same time, the HDMI "peculiarities" are annoying sometimes though I've sorted those 99%).

Now I'm not saying I don't believe the 50V is better, really the reasons I used to convince myself it was "worth" the premium over the MRX is that the ARC implementation is more powerful and the AVM/D series are more upgradeable (as proven by the 3D upgrade I've received). I personally think the D2 is a much tougher sell over the 50V than the 50V over the MRX, the D2V vs the 50V (IIRC) really comes down to the audio component selection and audio upsampling (basically "audiophile" upgrades, and I'm not meaning that in a derogatory way), where as the 50V has more functional benefits. But I think they are all far above average audio quality wise, so you're spending for smaller and smaller differences.

So where am I going with all this? Personally, if I had an MRX, I think I'd stick with it and be happy, and put the money you don't spend on the 50V or D2V into speakers, display, acoustic treatments, media, games, maybe travel, or the bank/investments.
Out of curiosity, you wouldn't really want to do a separate ARC setup for each would you? Since each ARC measurement is slightly different due to the nature of audio/acoustics. Wouldn't you want to do the measurement and then just upload the "same" correction (same settings) to both? That way some rogue measurement doesn't influence your comparison one way or another?

I did a side by side comparaison of the between an AVM40 and a D2 and the D2 really superior to the AVM40 to a point that I went with the D2. The possibility to upgrade help improve the resale value of these units. I am about to proceed with the upgrade from D2V to D2v 3D and when I look a the resales value of an upgrade unit this is not bad. We are both loosing a lot more money on our projector upgrade.
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post #41689 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 08:51 PM
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Me thinks a Gen 2 version of the D2v is coming next year...Then what we D2v users gonna do :confused: ?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #41690 of 44573 Old 09-26-2013, 09:03 PM
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^ Continue enjoying our D2v's? They don't suddenly expire you know. biggrin.gif
--Bob
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post #41691 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:16 PM
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Since the last firmware update split the D2v 3D from the D2v, can we assume that Anthem is done with updates for the non 3D D2v?

Lee
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post #41692 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:18 PM
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I hope not!


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post #41693 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:25 PM
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Look what happened to the D2, when the D2.5 came out.

Every day above ground is a good day.
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post #41694 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:32 PM
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That would be silly since the D2V and AMV 50v represent currently most of the unit being used. They may not develop new feature but for sure they will support these units with bug fixes.
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post #41695 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:39 PM
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I would also add that I personnally know 4 peoples with either D2V and only 2 will upgrade to 3D because they are not intrerested by 3D at all or only occasionnally and for this they just send directly the player output to their projector.

In my opinion the number of peoples who will upgrade may be less than 50%.
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post #41696 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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^ D2v/3D is mostly about new sales -- folks who won't even consider it if they can't tick off the "OK With 3D" check box.

Besides 3D, Upgraders will also include folks who want "pass through" for video.
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post #41697 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ D2v/3D is mostly about new sales -- folks who won't even consider it if they can't tick off the "OK With 3D" check box.

Besides 3D, Upgraders will also include folks who want "pass through" for video.
--Bob

That's why I upgraded mine. I couldn't care less about 3D (and if I ever start to, the video only goes through my Lumagen anyway). But I got the 3D upgrade, well 1 because it was free, and 2 because I knew it would improve the resale value of my 50V.
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post #41698 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That's why I upgraded mine. I couldn't care less about 3D (and if I ever start to, the video only goes through my Lumagen anyway). But I got the 3D upgrade, well 1 because it was free, and 2 because I knew it would improve the resale value of my 50V.

As Bob pointed out in addition, the passthrough feature is really key. Most of the players will be scaling to 4k so the need to have on-board scalers will decrease. You'll really only need the AVR or pre-pro, at least in the short term, to do switching. Supporting any of the audio and video specs in HDMI 2.0 is a whole different discussion and you won't see those products coming out into the mainstream until next year at the earliest. You will likely still have a good 3-7 year shelf life on the 50v and D2v 3D models. Any going to be upgrading to 32-channel audio in their home theater in the near future?
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post #41699 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 09:29 PM
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Me thinks a Gen 2 version of the D2v is coming next year...Then what we D2v users gonna do :confused: ?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Continue enjoying our D2v's? They don't suddenly expire you know. biggrin.gif
--Bob

 

 

Funny ... but they must as well be. For this newer model, I see:

 

1.   Independent and multiple sub support via ARC(up to 4 subs).

2.   Better up-to-date ADCs(ES9102/9112 32b ADC from ESS Tech) and better DACs(ESS9018 from ESS Tech).

3.   Native 4K support.

4.   Ethernet/Wireless based FW upgrade.

5.   True HT bypass.

6.   Better/modern GUI(hooray!).

7.   USB support.

8,   DSD support.

9.   Faster HDMI switching.

10. Phono MM/MC support(?)


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #41700 of 44573 Old 09-27-2013, 09:53 PM
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^ And a pony!

Seriously, though. This is only an issue if you are in the market now and have to decide whether to wait (for something about which we have no HINT at the moment) or not.

If you already OWN a D2v, it doesn't stop working when a new model comes out. Whenever that might be. You can make the benefits analysis at that point -- whether whatever might be in a new model is worth the upgrade cost. The nice thing, is that your situation can get no WORSE than that you CONTINUE to own a D2v. smile.gif
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