Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1402 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

After setting ARC I have found that the sub performance is quite lacking with the program material, both music & movies & I do understand that the ARC is lot more accurate than test tones from a disc. Is there a way to adjust LFE level with MRX without effecting ARC calculations? I am using two SI HT-18D4 subs wired for 2 ohms powered by Crown XLS1000 amp in a 2600cuft room so its not an issue of not having enough subwoofage.

Could be a phase issue between subs or between teh sub and the other speakers. double sub systems are more times than not set up incorrectly.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:01 PM
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I do not believe its a phase issue as I have checked graphs with SMS-1 & I have not noticed any cancellation issues either in listening sessions or when using test disc with spl meter. Both subs are located in front in tandem with front speakers & all the wiring is appropriate. Even the quick measure of ARC or the ARC graphs do not show any obvious response anomolies which I would expect to see with phase anomolies. Eventhough it may not be 100% accurate, when I did manual speaker level check & setup with test tones without ARC from MRX as well as test disc all speakers including sub were within 2db of each other which I am assuming would not be the case with subs that are out of phase with mains especially if they are in the same plane. Please educate me if I am wrong.

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

Is there a way to adjust LFE level with MRX without effecting ARC calculations?

Yes, I was the first to reply but perhaps I am invisible. I said use the LFE trims - they are available on the remote and get applied per INPUT signal format (Dolby, DTS, PCM) on the AVM/D. If you have an MRX it may work slightly different.

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

I do not believe its a phase issue as I have checked graphs with SMS-1 & I have not noticed any cancellation issues either in listening sessions or when using test disc with spl meter. Both subs are located in front in tandem with front speakers & all the wiring is appropriate. Even the quick measure of ARC or the ARC graphs do not show any obvious response anomolies which I would expect to see with phase anomolies. Eventhough it may not be 100% accurate, when I did manual speaker level check & setup with test tones without ARC from MRX as well as test disc all speakers including sub were within 2db of each other which I am assuming would not be the case with subs that are out of phase with mains especially if they are in the same plane. Please educate me if I am wrong.

I don't know about SMS-1 but ARC and SPL with test tones do not show inter-channel phase issues, as they only measure one channel at a time. You would have to play the tone in all channels with all speakers unplugged and gradually plug them in and verify you get +3dB for each speaker you add. Anyway I'm not saying you are having phase issues, just correcting your logic.

Sometimes the user's expectations for amount of bass needs "adjustment" but you say everything was balanced nicely before ARC and you thought it was just right then. It is more likely some measurement in the room is throwing off ARC. What is it coming up with for room gain?

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

After setting ARC I have found that the sub performance is quite lacking with the program material, both music & movies & I do understand that the ARC is lot more accurate than test tones from a disc. Is there a way to adjust LFE level with MRX without effecting ARC calculations? I am using two SI HT-18D4 subs wired for 2 ohms powered by Crown XLS1000 amp in a 2600cuft room so its not an issue of not having enough subwoofage.

Please post your charts and targets.

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Old 11-20-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

After setting ARC I have found that the sub performance is quite lacking with the program material, both music & movies & I do understand that the ARC is lot more accurate than test tones from a disc. Is there a way to adjust LFE level with MRX without effecting ARC calculations? I am using two SI HT-18D4 subs wired for 2 ohms powered by Crown XLS1000 amp in a 2600cuft room so its not an issue of not having enough subwoofage.
If you run a test disc, what are the SPL readings of the L and LFE channels? (Please specify which disc you use.)

If you can make the measurements with ARC and without (if that represents the per-ARC condition), all the better.

BTW, it is not unusual to need to change the sub level. In my case, the Music present needs 6 dB more sub drive than the Movie preset. YMMV.

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Old 11-20-2013, 04:11 PM
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Hi Roger, I am using Audio tool kit 5.1 disc from Goldline. The sub channel test tone says LFE channel & I believe the frequency sweep is specified from 40hz-80hz. I will double check.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:26 PM
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Hi Roger, I am using Audio tool kit 5.1 disc from Goldline. The sub channel test tone says LFE channel & I believe the frequency sweep is specified from 40hz-80hz. I will double check.
Good. I have the Goldline disc, so no need to check anything but you readings. The main channels will read ~ 71 dB SPL from a calibrated system (not 75 dB) because the tones were recorded at -30 dBFS with Dialnorm offset of -4 dB.

So if you read 70-ish dB in the L channel, just curious to see what it reads for LFE. cool.gif

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Old 11-20-2013, 06:07 PM
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LFE is always reading around 5-7db lower than lt main. This is after ARC. I even tried manually zeroing out & setting the speaker levels prior to running ARC using the test disc but still ended up with 5-7db lower on LFE channel after ARC.

Vinod
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Yes, I was the first to reply but perhaps I am invisible. I said use the LFE trims - they are available on the remote and get applied per INPUT signal format (Dolby, DTS, PCM) on the AVM/D. If you have an MRX it may work slightly different.

+1
Exactly what I would recommend. Raise or lower the sub db output without changing ARC or your settings
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:22 PM
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I will check the MRX remote to change the sub LFE level but as far as I can tell in the speaker or source setup menu I do not recall provision for adjusting LFE level. Only thing I see under source setup menu is tone controls for bass & treble. My concern is if I change the sub level using remote its probably no different than changing sub level from speaker setup menu & the changes made with remote will revert back to original settings once the unit is powered off.

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:14 PM
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Checked the channel trims using the remote & LFE is already at 0db. Do I need to recheck when the source is playing to change LFE for each format?

Vinod
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

LFE is always reading around 5-7db lower than lt main. This is after ARC. I even tried manually zeroing out & setting the speaker levels prior to running ARC using the test disc but still ended up with 5-7db lower on LFE channel after ARC.

What player are you using to play this test disc. -5dB error in LFE sounds suspiciously like a player problem -- not so common these days, but use to be more common.

Is the test track in question a Bitstream or an LPCM track? If a Bitstream, test both ways -- i.e., both Bitstream output and LPCM output from the player. A player error will only be possible when using LPCM output.
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:17 AM
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I am using Sony BDP-5000ES in bitstream. I also have Oppo BPD83 that I can try to see it works better. Not sure if Oppo has the same LFE error.

Vinod
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:46 AM
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^ I know the OPPO does not have the type of error I'm talking about. It's unlikely the Sony does either, but I'm not familiar with what settings the Sony has that might screw this up.

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Old 11-21-2013, 07:32 AM
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Hello guys, can anyone upload older firmware for Anthem AVM50 (not V), i look for 1.31 version. i try to upgrade to 1.33, but become "cannot connect to oki bootloader" , maybe, then i upgrade down to 1.31 and next to 1.33 would be all ok.
Tkanks
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:58 AM
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I double checked Sony's menu & did not find anything that can effect LFE. In any case I will replace it with Oppo & see what happens.

Vinod
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:16 AM
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How do I attach ARC file to the post? Do I need to covert the format & if so how do I do it? It says unsupported file. Thanks.

Vinod
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

How do I attach ARC file to the post? Do I need to covert the format & if so how do I do it? It says unsupported file. Thanks.

I use the window's snipping tool. I save the picture(s) as a jpeg file in my pictures library.
In the AVS reply screen, at the top, there is an 'image' icon next to the paper clip 'attachment' icon. Click on it an it will open up a window-- click on 'upload file'--open your pictures libray, find the picture and double click it.
Repeat to get as many pictures as you need.
This is the 'medium size, choice.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:42 PM
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For those of you who feel that the subs lack "oomph" after ARC, both subjectively and via measurement with other tools, my experience was exactly the same for years with my 50v. I had checked it with various other measurements both with test disks and software generated test signals and there was clearly a drop in bass in the smoothed charts. It had nothing to do with the BluRay player or test disk I was using. REW most clearly demonstrated this and it kinda drove me a little crazy that it was measurably too low yet I did not really have a good way to correct for it without trying to hack the mic calibration file.

My solution then was to brute force increase the sub level by around 4 to 6 dB in the settings menu (such that it applied to all inputs equally), however this resulted in unwanted boomy boost in the cross over range. Don't increase the LFE on the remote - that will only make a difference for the LFE channel on movies, and will not take into account music or redirected bass from surrounds, etc based on the measured ARC run.

Then recently it occured to me that my ARC mic might either be faulty, or the Mic calibration file was incorrect, or I had damaged it at some point in the past. I went to Anthem and took and chance and bought a new one for around $140 (i just told them I lost the previous one so as to not get into a debate as to whether I needed a new one or not and I was out of warranty in any case and I thought it was worth a try) and voila! Problem solved. Very nice tight and strong bass, and very smooth transition between sub and speakers, and no "post ARC" adjustment required.

If yours is still under warranty, then its certainly worth a try to get a new calibrated mic. I wish I had returned mine sooner to save a few bucks and to get a better performing system sooner, but still for me it was a pretty inexpensive fix in the end.

Dave
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:04 PM
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Hello guys, can anyone upload older firmware for Anthem AVM50 (not V), i look for 1.31 version. i try to upgrade to 1.33, but become "cannot connect to oki bootloader" , maybe, then i upgrade down to 1.31 and next to 1.33 would be all ok.
Tkanks

Maybe anyone can help ??
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBoswell View Post

For those of you who feel that the subs lack "oomph" after ARC, both subjectively and via measurement with other tools, my experience was exactly the same for years with my 50v. I had checked it with various other measurements both with test disks and software generated test signals and there was clearly a drop in bass in the smoothed charts. It had nothing to do with the BluRay player or test disk I was using. REW most clearly demonstrated this and it kinda drove me a little crazy that it was measurably too low yet I did not really have a good way to correct for it without trying to hack the mic calibration file.

My solution then was to brute force increase the sub level by around 4 to 6 dB in the settings menu (such that it applied to all inputs equally), however this resulted in unwanted boomy boost in the cross over range. Don't increase the LFE on the remote - that will only make a difference for the LFE channel on movies, and will not take into account music or redirected bass from surrounds, etc based on the measured ARC run.

Then recently it occured to me that my ARC mic might either be faulty, or the Mic calibration file was incorrect, or I had damaged it at some point in the past. I went to Anthem and took and chance and bought a new one for around $140 (i just told them I lost the previous one so as to not get into a debate as to whether I needed a new one or not and I was out of warranty in any case and I thought it was worth a try) and voila! Problem solved. Very nice tight and strong bass, and very smooth transition between sub and speakers, and no "post ARC" adjustment required.

If yours is still under warranty, then its certainly worth a try to get a new calibrated mic. I wish I had returned mine sooner to save a few bucks and to get a better performing system sooner, but still for me it was a pretty inexpensive fix in the end.

Dave

Very interesting. I always felt that the bass was just a little underwhelming (for a system with 4 JL F113 subs) so I would turn the sub volume up 5 or 6db too. I had an audio calibration done by Adam Pelz (a fellow 6speeder) and his equipment confirmed that the bass level was too low.

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Old 11-22-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBoswell View Post

For those of you who feel that the subs lack "oomph" after ARC, both subjectively and via measurement with other tools, my experience was exactly the same for years with my 50v. I had checked it with various other measurements both with test disks and software generated test signals and there was clearly a drop in bass in the smoothed charts. It had nothing to do with the BluRay player or test disk I was using. REW most clearly demonstrated this and it kinda drove me a little crazy that it was measurably too low yet I did not really have a good way to correct for it without trying to hack the mic calibration file.

My solution then was to brute force increase the sub level by around 4 to 6 dB in the settings menu (such that it applied to all inputs equally), however this resulted in unwanted boomy boost in the cross over range. Don't increase the LFE on the remote - that will only make a difference for the LFE channel on movies, and will not take into account music or redirected bass from surrounds, etc based on the measured ARC run.

Then recently it occured to me that my ARC mic might either be faulty, or the Mic calibration file was incorrect, or I had damaged it at some point in the past. I went to Anthem and took and chance and bought a new one for around $140 (i just told them I lost the previous one so as to not get into a debate as to whether I needed a new one or not and I was out of warranty in any case and I thought it was worth a try) and voila! Problem solved. Very nice tight and strong bass, and very smooth transition between sub and speakers, and no "post ARC" adjustment required.

If yours is still under warranty, then its certainly worth a try to get a new calibrated mic. I wish I had returned mine sooner to save a few bucks and to get a better performing system sooner, but still for me it was a pretty inexpensive fix in the end.

Dave

good info. mind posting your old and new mic serial #s, for reference?

dt
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:32 PM
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Sorry if this is a duplicate of any prior similar posting. What is ARC 1M and how does it differ from ARC? Will it be available on the D2V and do we care?
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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Looking at the MX thread, I am thinking ARC 1M provides no advantage over what we currently have...
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:04 PM
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Sorry if this is a duplicate of any prior similar posting. What is ARC 1M and how does it differ from ARC? Will it be available on the D2V and do we care?



I talked to a Anthem rep on the weekend, ( Rob ) and he says that the arc1 in the D2, D2.v is superior to the M1 arc. The new arc is for the lesser units, 310,510,710.

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Old 11-22-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBoswell View Post

For those of you who feel that the subs lack "oomph" after ARC, both subjectively and via measurement with other tools, my experience was exactly the same for years with my 50v. I had checked it with various other measurements both with test disks and software generated test signals and there was clearly a drop in bass in the smoothed charts. It had nothing to do with the BluRay player or test disk I was using. REW most clearly demonstrated this and it kinda drove me a little crazy that it was measurably too low yet I did not really have a good way to correct for it without trying to hack the mic calibration file.

My solution then was to brute force increase the sub level by around 4 to 6 dB in the settings menu (such that it applied to all inputs equally), however this resulted in unwanted boomy boost in the cross over range. Don't increase the LFE on the remote - that will only make a difference for the LFE channel on movies, and will not take into account music or redirected bass from surrounds, etc based on the measured ARC run.

Then recently it occured to me that my ARC mic might either be faulty, or the Mic calibration file was incorrect, or I had damaged it at some point in the past. I went to Anthem and took and chance and bought a new one for around $140 (i just told them I lost the previous one so as to not get into a debate as to whether I needed a new one or not and I was out of warranty in any case and I thought it was worth a try) and voila! Problem solved. Very nice tight and strong bass, and very smooth transition between sub and speakers, and no "post ARC" adjustment required.

If yours is still under warranty, then its certainly worth a try to get a new calibrated mic. I wish I had returned mine sooner to save a few bucks and to get a better performing system sooner, but still for me it was a pretty inexpensive fix in the end.

Dave

I have been experiencing the same issue. The last measure that I took, it emphasize some regions of the bass that now there is an issue of dialogue intellegibility. I added the necessary acoustic treatments to the room, move listening positions, speakers, etc..the culprit seems to be the mic. I recently ordered one and hope to get it by tuesday.

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Old 11-23-2013, 03:10 AM
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^ This would be expected if the Crossover values are set too high --> male voices getting steered into the Subwoofer.

You can also get this if you've accidentally enabled the speakers in your TV, so they are playing in addition to your normal speakers.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:19 AM
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Sorry if this is a duplicate of any prior similar posting. What is ARC 1M and how does it differ from ARC? Will it be available on the D2V and do we care?

ARC 1M is the ARC hardware in the gen 2 MRX Receivers (310/510/710). It increases the processing power over what's in the original MRX receivers and adds control via Ethernet for the ARC setup and upload process.

Since it is hardware, it is not something you'd expect to see in the AVM or Statement pre-pros.

It works with the ARC 2 Windows application. I tend to call the whole shebang ARC2.

At the moment the ARC 2 Windows application only connects via Ethernet, so it can't work with the AVM or Statement pre-pros. It offers a number of UI enhancements over the ARC Windows application we are used to here. First, the Measurement process is faster -- fewer sweeps needed to lock in for each speaker. Second, it lets you view more stuff, such as the raw Measured curve from each Mic position for a speaker. It also adds a way to print out the results. Various things like that. I've no idea whether or when that stuff might migrate to the ARC Windows app that we use.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ This would be expected if the Crossover values are set too high --> male voices getting steered into the Subwoofer.

You can also get this if you've accidentally enabled the speakers in your TV, so they are playing in addition to your normal speakers.
--Bob

Bob,

The subwoofer's crossover is set to 120 hz and the LCRs are set to 60 hz.
Bass is still kind of boomy. The mains and surrounds seem to be fine. The center channel and the subwoofer are problematic.
I have tried several times to calibrate like you though me and the bass was very low. This last time, is when it really increased the bass and lost dialogue intelligibility.
I have changed the listening position following the 38 percent rule. I added several acoustic treatments to deal with flutter echo problems. I treated all early reflections ( creating a RFZ ).
The corners have tbass traps from floor to ceiling. There is a big hump in the bass area for the center channel with three big peaks. According to the graphs everything is perfect. So my guess is that the culprit is the mic. The only other think that I can do is to use the foam plugs in the bass ports for the center channel. Also, perhaps move away a little bit the sub from the front wall. BtW i used the quick measure tool to fin the optimal positions for the speakers.

Regards,

Christian

Chris. My DVD UHD Blu Ray and Blu Ray collection
JVC DLA-X750R (calibrated with calman 5 and c6 hdr meter), ST 100 (100") screen, B&W 803D2s mains, B&W HTM2D2 center channel, B&W 805D2 surrounds, B&W CCMM682s in-ceiling speakers (4), B&W DB1 subwoofer, Marantz AV8802A preamp, Parasound Halo A51+(2xA21)+(2xA23) amps, Oppo UDP 203 player, Roku Ultra and Harmony Elite remote.
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