Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1408 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

I noticed that extended response also.
I have never seen ARC respond above 5000 khz without changing ARC to a Max frequency higher than 5000khz. and never at that flat a curve
I wonder how this came about ?
The Anthem Subs are awesome. I had a SUb 1 until Anthem delivered my Sub 2.

May be the beryllium tweeters and the fact they are level with the listening position ?
Mark
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

The word of the day is "K" as in Kilo. Stew you need to drop some zeroes or the "K". wink.gif

Nice to know ARC can help my dogs listening experience though. biggrin.gif

Yes. My typing mistake. Good catch
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:59 PM
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Well David caught it first but you missed his rolleyes.gif and ran with it smile.gif
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marke001 View Post

Thanks very much for the suggestion guys it gives me some idea now of where to start
to find tune things a bit. But limited for movement as I said but will see what the response
Is like with some repositioning . At least the sub is good a paradigm Sub1 btw smile.gif
Mark

The Anthem Subs are awesome. I had a SUb 1 until Anthem delivered my Sub 2.

 

$10K for a Sub 2 :eek:?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:04 AM
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$10K for a Sub 2 eek.gif ?

Nope. I bought it when it first came out and the original price it was substantially less.
Then there was a substantial discount from my dealer
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:41 AM
 
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The 100-200hz dip might be wall interference. I forget the technical name and it has to do with the wavelength and cancellation, etc. Beyond me but a local acoustician explained it to me. Anyway, the closer you move the speaker to a wall this cancellation will happen at a higher frequency, the further away the speaker lower the frequency it will occur. For an 80hz crossover the speakers have to 3.5ft or greater from the wall to get this phenomenon below the crossover point. There are other solutions as well like moving the speakers closer and treating the wall. This is one of those things EQ can't fix. See what happens when you move your speakers.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:35 PM
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when it first came out and the original price it was substantially less.

I noticed that too. Even the Sub-1 has increased 2 g's in as many years.

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Old 12-31-2013, 05:03 PM
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I noticed that too. Even the Sub-1 has increased 2 g's in as many years.

Good deals with substantial savings can be had
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:06 PM
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Yep I paid almost half retail just recently for my sub 1
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:26 PM
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After getting feedback from everyone I played around with the speaker positions a little - dont have much leaway , and moved the listening position (couch)
forward a little . So while not ideal I think the results are a little easier on arc this time around.
edit to reupload images for missing graphs


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Old 12-31-2013, 06:22 PM
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Two things. I do not see any improvement in the actual measured response.
Your charts are missing the displayed graph line were ARC actually made the changes.
Your graphs only have the measured response and the changes ARC would attempt to make
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:23 PM
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Looks good to me.

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Old 12-31-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marke001 View Post

After getting feedback from everyone I played around with the speaker positions a little - dont have much leaway , and moved the listening position (couch)
forward a little . So while not ideal I think the results are a little easier on arc this time around.

 

Open ARC ---> View ---> Show Calculated


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:44 PM
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Dont know why it didnt show I just recaptured and updated
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:42 AM
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^ You are good to go. Enjoy!
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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Marke001 View Post

Dont know why it didnt show I just recaptured and updated

Looks nice but in my view, since the LF speaker has no gain in the 100Hz region while the RF has the 4dB of room gain, i'd reduce the room gain maybe until the responses match in that region?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marke001 View Post

Dont know why it didnt show I just recaptured and updated

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Looks nice but in my view, since the LF speaker has no gain in the 100Hz region while the RF has the 4dB of room gain, i'd reduce the room gain maybe until the responses match in that region?

Your audio levels are too high. The recommended level is 75db.
I would redo ARC and set the audio levels properly using your Signal Level meter and the setup procedure for ARC in the manual.
Check the manual but if I remember you set everything to zero and use the LF as the level source and then you manually set the sub with the sub volume control.


I wish someone, maybe Bob P or Nick from Anthem could comment on why this particular ARC setup extends flat to 10 khz when set in ARC to 5 khz.

Could there be a microphone not normally supplied or shipped in error that has extended response ?
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:09 PM
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His microphone just fine. Its his front speakers that are really flat out to 10kHz so ARC simply follows the speaker response after 5kHz.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:21 AM
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I'm pretty sure my mike is nothing special it's most likely the speakers
and as I said before beryllium tweeters .
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Did you check in Setup under Video Output Cnfg for THROUGH ? I believe it is Line "B"

Kyle has mysteriously gone silent and did not answer all your good questions. I wonder if he found the setup error or had a botched 3D upgrade.

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Old 01-02-2014, 04:16 PM
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Your audio levels are too high. The recommended level is 75db.

Some people had this problem with the way the graphs are drawn in Windows 8. If not, does it really matter? A few extra dB might even help the measurements.

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Old 01-02-2014, 06:47 PM
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You are right
It probably does not matter since Anthem says the level is for I think they said a reference level for the software which ARC resets during the processing.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

His microphone just fine. Its his front speakers that are really flat out to 10kHz so ARC simply follows the speaker response after 5kHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marke001 View Post

I'm pretty sure my mike is nothing special it's most likely the speakers
and as I said before beryllium tweeters .

This I have to disagree with.

Many Anthem ARC users have beryllium tweeters and even more exotic materials like diamonds and electrostatics etc that go to 40 khz and higher.
What is relevant is his system setting which is 5000 hz and ARC is going beyond that cutoff. ARC should not be going much beyond 5000 hz or should be dropping by several db after 5000
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

This I have to disagree with.

Many Anthem ARC users have beryllium tweeters and even more exotic materials like diamonds and electrostatics etc that go to 40 khz and higher.
What is relevant is his system setting which is 5000 hz and ARC is going beyond that cutoff. ARC should not be going much beyond 5000 hz or should be dropping by several db after 5000

 

ARC doesn't drop off after the target frequency. It simply follows the speaker frequency curve after target frequency since all DSP coefficients are set 1.0 (or something equivalent) and then sent to the output dac. My ARC behaves like this and always has.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

ARC doesn't drop off after the target frequency. It simply follows the speaker frequency curve after target frequency since all DSP coefficients are set 1.0 (or something equivalent) and then sent to the output dac. My ARC behaves like this and always has.

I just can't follow that line of reasoning. It's too easy to say "Great beryllium tweeters are generating a frequency reponse signal never seen before ".
Until Marke001 posted his graphs no one ever had an ARC produced curve that extended to 10khz when set at 5 khz.
And when a user extended the curve out by changing the set up to 10k from 5k the curve would barely make it to 10k. And it would not be a smooth curve
Anthem has repeatably stated the ARC microphone was inaccurate past 10k and also stated fthat freq above 5k were very directional and the microphone was not accurate

Look at the attached freq response curve of my uncorrected system..
Uncorrected in the fact that ARC is off.
It goes easily to 10k the limit of the corrected microphone being used.
Yet when I run ARC set at 5k the curve drops like a boat anchor after 5k

Too bad someone from Anthem will not step up and comment here on what we are seeing and discussing.

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:11 PM
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What is relevant is his system setting which is 5000 hz and ARC is going beyond that cutoff. ARC should not be going much beyond 5000 hz or should be dropping by several db after 5000
His graphs show that ARC is indeed not going much beyond the 5 kHz limit. The red line stops around 7 kHz, which is where the uncorrected curve intersects the target curve. To cut off any sooner could impose a discontinuity into the response. The green response above that is simply the native response of his system, as interpreted by the ARC mic.

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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Look at the attached freq response curve of my uncorrected system..
Uncorrected in the fact that ARC is off.
It goes easily to 10k the limit of the corrected microphone being used.
Yet when I run ARC set at 5k the curve drops like a boat anchor after 5k
You have a RealRTA plot showing this dropoff >5 kHz, or is it the ARC plot showing that? If the ARC curve, that's the nature of ARC mics. Not to worry, ARC is not touching your response >5 kHz.

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Old 01-03-2014, 04:45 PM
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His graphs show that ARC is indeed not going much beyond the 5 kHz limit. The red line stops around 7 kHz, which is where the uncorrected curve intersects the target curve. To cut off any sooner could impose a discontinuity into the response. The green response above that is simply the native response of his system, as interpreted by the ARC mic.
You have a RealRTA plot showing this dropoff >5 kHz, or is it the ARC plot showing that? If the ARC curve, that's the nature of ARC mics. Not to worry, ARC is not touching your response >5 kHz.

Roger
I must be coming a rock head in my old age but I see this completely different.
Look at Marke001's graphs and only at the left front and right front speaker graphs.
The red line is his system's measured response by ARC
The dotted line is what ARC is going to try and achieve as a result of ARC's correction to the systems response
The green line is the result of ARC applying correction..
When I look at the two graphs provided by Marke001 I see the green response curve going past 10k even though the system is supposed to only respond to 5k.
Now, no one is saying the tweeters are not capable of having good flat output past 10k or eve n 20k.
But ARC has been set to stop measuring and responding at 5k.
My argument is to look at any number of graphs on this forum with just as capable systems and never have i seen an Arc graph go past 5k when set up at 5k without a rapid fall off in the measured response by ARC

I presented my response curve as an example of a system without ARC applied, that easily goes smoothly past 10k and yet after I apply ARC just like every oyhjer graph presented here with a 5k setup, the response by ARC drops off rapidly after 5k
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:03 PM
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Look at Marke001's graphs and only at the left front and right front speaker graphs. The red line is his system's measured response by ARC.
Yes, but that's not the whole story. The red line is the area where ARC measured a correctable response. The green areas above the red area (> 7 kHz in this case) are also the responses measured by ARC. But this part of the range will not be treated by ARC. So that part is the same before and after ARC is applied.

Quote:
When I look at the two graphs provided by Marke001 I see the green response curve going past 10k even though the system is supposed to only respond to 5k.
?? What system only responds to 5 kHz? Not the speakers, and not the measurement. Only the corrective ARC treatment stops at 5 kHz.

Quote:
Now, no one is saying the tweeters are not capable of having good flat output past 10k or eve n 20k. But ARC has been set to stop measuring and responding at 5k.
No, it stops correcting, not measuring.

Quote:
My argument is to look at any number of graphs on this forum with just as capable systems and never have i seen an Arc graph go past 5k when set up at 5k without a rapid fall off in the measured response by ARC
I have seen plenty of ARC plots fall off rapidly above 5/6/7 kHz, or have wild dips, but I think that is often due to the mic being unreliable in that range. Anthem was wise to recommend no correction be applied above 5 kHz. By the same token, no matter how lumpy or rolled off the response looks above 5 kHz, one can ignore it as it may not be accurate. The trouble starts when someone sees that rolloff, and forces ARC to "correct" it by setting the ARC cutoff to 10 kHz. It is applying correction to the mic's response, not the speaker's. so it results in harsh sound.

Quote:
I presented my response curve as an example of a system without ARC applied, that easily goes smoothly past 10k and yet after I apply ARC just like every other graph presented here with a 5k setup, the response by ARC drops off rapidly after 5k
Yes, yours is not an uncommon situation. Just ignore what the graphs show above 5 kHz.

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:16 AM
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I need to get a new laptop soon. Is there any problems running ARC or doing firmware upgrades using Windows 8 ??
There are still a lot of units with win7 for sale so I shouldn't have any trouble finding either win7 or win8 in my price range, but since I will be using it for ARC if end up being win8 unit, it needs to work.
Anyone doing ARC with win8 ?? Any problems ??

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Old 01-11-2014, 08:22 AM
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^^Tom,

I updated my 50v-3D to V3.10 firmware several weeks ago using a Windows 8 laptop without any problems. Make sure you have the correct driver for the Keyspan USB-serial adapter and you should be good to go.

I haven't re-run ARC though...

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