Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1426 - AVS Forum
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post #42751 of 42990 Old 05-05-2014, 05:38 PM
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Overall, I think your charts look pretty good. The slight hole that I see is between your Surrounds and your sub. Your Surrounds are crossing over at 90Hz; but, your sub doesn't really kick in until 80Hz. The only real problem that I see is that ARC has set your sub to 80Hz. The goal is to have ARC to set your sub to 120Hz. You should check your sub to make sure all internal crossovers are disabled. Next, you can try playing around with sub placement to see how your sub interact with your room if you move it to another location.
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post #42752 of 42990 Old 05-05-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks for clarifying your post Stew...

Selecting the center speaker xover point is not a matter of ARC target frequency points, is it? I tried the default 5kHz and the points remained the same.

I raised the sub xover to 120Hz last night before I went to bed and will test this solution today once I get home. My new SVS SB13-Ultra's don't perform as expected at an 80Hz xover so far based on some music tests I performed last night.

My living room is an audio nightmare. Moving the subs along side the TV wall is not help since I get a huge null starting at 50Hz. The only happy place is almost smack center in the living room:p . If it wasn't for the SVS AS-EQ1 subwoofer management system, I would be toast for sure but it managed to time-align the subs correctly to get me the wide FR you see in my plots.

There is something throwing ARC off its intended course of action. I would suggest you try using ARC without the SVS Ultras as a test to see if it modifies how the crossovers are set.
I am not saying the SVS's are not good just a test without their influence
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post #42753 of 42990 Old 05-06-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Selecting the center speaker xover point is not a matter of ARC target frequency points, is it? I tried the default 5kHz and the points remained the same.

I would still keep the Max EQ Freq at 5k for now. There does not appear to be anything nasty that would need correction above 5k in your charts.

It won't help your 80Hz sub issue though. ARC made the decision to set it there based on the measurements, and very neatly achieved that goal as you can see by the green line. The only way to improve that is to move the subs or speakers around, as others have said.

I am guessing you have your left front speaker very close to a corner or at least one wall?

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post #42754 of 42990 Old 05-06-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post
 
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Overall, I think your charts look pretty good. The slight hole that I see is between your Surrounds and your sub. Your Surrounds are crossing over at 90Hz; but, your sub doesn't really kick in until 80Hz. The only real problem that I see is that ARC has set your sub to 80Hz. The goal is to have ARC to set your sub to 120Hz. You should check your sub to make sure all internal crossovers are disabled. Next, you can try playing around with sub placement to see how your sub interact with your room if you move it to another location.

 

All internal xovers are disabled. Unfortunately, my one bedroom apartment doesn't leave much room at all for decent subwoofer placement options. I tried the whole front and side walls. No dice...:o

 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Selecting the center speaker xover point is not a matter of ARC target frequency points, is it? I tried the default 5kHz and the points remained the same.

I would still keep the Max EQ Freq at 5k for now. There does not appear to be anything nasty that would need correction above 5k in your charts.

It won't help your 80Hz sub issue though. ARC made the decision to set it there based on the measurements, and very neatly achieved that goal as you can see by the green line. The only way to improve that is to move the subs or speakers around, as others have said.

I am guessing you have your left front speaker very close to a corner or at least one wall?

 

Left front is 3 feet from the back wall (Xstats need space) and 4 feet from the side wall, which is really a BD/DVD book shelf.  The Spires XStats has a 35Hz gain control knob that is set to its absolute minimum at -10.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42755 of 42990 Old 05-06-2014, 09:06 PM
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I  think the 80Hz setting by ARC could be due to the steep slope/notch between 60Hz - 80Hz. I overrode the setting and changed it to 120Hz as shown below. Is it right to occasionally change ARC's settings?

 


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42756 of 42990 Old 05-07-2014, 07:22 AM
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^ Yes, what you have done makes sense. Case closed?

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post #42757 of 42990 Old 05-07-2014, 03:10 PM
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Yes, I believe so .... Thanks for all your help:)!

 

Now you'll notice that my graphs are referenced at about 69 - 70 dB. Should I re-ARC to bring it up to the preferred 75dB or is there a way to do it w/o re-ARCing?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42758 of 42990 Old 05-07-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Yes, I believe so .... Thanks for all your help:) !

Now you'll notice that my graphs are referenced at about 69 - 70 dB. Should I re-ARC to bring it up to the preferred 75dB or is there a way to do it w/o re-ARCing?


Anthem has stated the levels are not exact and only a reference. They said that ARC will utilize the correct level even when it appears lower in the charts.
Not to worry
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post #42759 of 42990 Old 05-07-2014, 06:03 PM
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Cool...thx!


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42760 of 42990 Old 05-09-2014, 02:35 PM
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Any reason the "Bypass LFE Xover" setting is set to No by default?

 

The manual says "With BYPASS LFE XOVER set to YES, LFE goes to the subwoofer without going through the crossover, preventing loss of LFE information. This also applies to 6-CH inputs SUB input(effectivelt an LFE input)"

 

It would be a no-brainer to set it to YES so why is it set to No?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42761 of 42990 Old 05-09-2014, 03:52 PM
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Updated Logitech Harmony database definition for Anthem D2v

For your information, Logitech has now updated the database definition for the Anthem D2v as per. Bob Pariseau's description in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/678260/anthem-d2-d2v-avm50-avm50v-arc1-tweaking-guide/38200_100#post_22351574

Big thanks go to Bob Pariseau and the european logitech Harmony support center for getting these changes implemented! smile.gif

Details:
Digits 0 through 9 has been added with these codes:
  • 1 copy of Preset1
  • 2 copy of Preset2
  • 3 copy of Preset3
  • 4 copy of Preset4
  • 5 copy of Preset5
  • 6 copy of Preset6
  • 7 copy of VideoProcessing
  • 8 copy of Display
  • 9 copy of ToneBypass
  • 0 copy of Dynamics
This means they will now automatically be mapped as buttons for the remote.

3-code direct input added as per Appendix A for:
  • TV1-4
  • DVD1-4
  • SAT1-2
  • FM1-3
  • AM

You will still manually need to map the following buttons as explained in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/678260/anthem-d2-d2v-avm50-avm50v-arc1-tweaking-guide/39800_100#post_22852704
  • Menu should send Sub/LFE
  • Exit should send Center
  • Info should send Center
  • ... others?

Default Power on Delay has been set to 11000ms (11 seconds) as per this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/678260/anthem-d2-d2v-avm50-avm50v-arc1-tweaking-guide/38200_100#post_22351574
You may want to/need to tweak that for your setup as explained in the above post.
Its possible for Harmony support to manually turn on "Scart" option for your Anthem device, which makes the 11 second Power on Delay global. This means Harmony wont attempt to power up and/or control any other devices until the Anthem is completely powered up. I needed this because my XBMC media center PC would not correctly detect the HDMI/EDID settings if it booted up before the Anthem starts sending out HDMI/EDID data. You will have to contact Logitech support for details and help if you need this setting.

This has been tested on Logitech Harmony 900 and Anthem D2v v3.09 software.
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post #42762 of 42990 Old 05-09-2014, 11:34 PM
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Before .... I had to force ARC to 120Hz for the sub xover from its preferred 80Hz.

 

 

After rotating one sub 90 degrees and the other by 45 degrees ... ARC naturally picked 120Hz as the sub xover :).

 

AVfile likes this.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42763 of 42990 Old 05-10-2014, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Any reason the "Bypass LFE Xover" setting is set to No by default?

The manual says "With BYPASS LFE XOVER set to YES, LFE goes to the subwoofer without going through the crossover, preventing loss of LFE information. This also applies to 6-CH inputs SUB input(effectivelt an LFE input)"

It would be a no-brainer to set it to YES so why is it set to No?

First, the Bypass LFE setting is ignored whenever ARC is active for any Source. So no worries. The ARC solution does a more sophisticated version of the same sort of "bypass". (The setting also has no impact during ARC Measurement.)

I've no certain knowledge of why it is defaulted to OFF. As you say, if not using ARC it would seem normal to have it ON. I suspect it was left as OFF when that setting was added so as to not alter things for folks who already had their manual (non-ARC) setup in place.
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post #42764 of 42990 Old 05-10-2014, 10:01 PM
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Thanks Bob ... relieved to know ARC ignores this setting when its activated.

 

Now as you see in my above graphs, ARC set the sub to 120Hz in the targets menu but ARC set the SUB/LFE xover to 60Hz in the configuration menu screen. What doe this mean? Does the sub take over at 60Hz or 120Hz?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42765 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks Bob ... relieved to know ARC ignores this setting when its activated.

Now as you see in my above graphs, ARC set the sub to 120Hz in the targets menu but ARC set the SUB/LFE xover to 60Hz in the configuration menu screen. What doe this mean? Does the sub take over at 60Hz or 120Hz?

Please post the menu screen and targets screen so we can get a better understanding
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post #42766 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks Bob ... relieved to know ARC ignores this setting when its activated.

Now as you see in my above graphs, ARC set the sub to 120Hz in the targets menu but ARC set the SUB/LFE xover to 60Hz in the configuration menu screen. What doe this mean? Does the sub take over at 60Hz or 120Hz?

They are two different settings.

The Target setting of 120Hz means ARC is correcting the Sub output up that high, which can be useful for LFE which can include some (not much) content up that high.

The Crossover setting uploaded into Setup has to do with how ARC uses the hardware tools (in conjunction with the Room Correction Parameter processing) to blend steered bass going from the mains to the Sub. It is sufficient to think of that setting as ignored in so far as LFE content is concerned -- just as if LFE Bypass were in effect.

You can force the Target to a value different from what ARC itself selects, but you can't force the Sub Crossover to be different without over-constraining the solution. ARC needs to be able to pick the Sub Crossover itself to match with the Crossovers in effect for the main speakers.

(Please note that if you are following the discussion in the new MRX Receivers thread for the similarly named settings in ARC 2 for those Receivers that the processing, and meaning of the settings is DIFFERENT there.)
--Bob

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post #42767 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Thanks Bob ... relieved to know ARC ignores this setting when its activated.

Now as you see in my above graphs, ARC set the sub to 120Hz in the targets menu but ARC set the SUB/LFE xover to 60Hz in the configuration menu screen. What doe this mean? Does the sub take over at 60Hz or 120Hz?

Please post the menu screen and targets screen so we can get a better understanding

mains.jpg 441k .jpg file

sub_surrounds.jpg 443k .jpg file

music.jpg 339k .jpg file

Targets.jpg 109k .jpg file

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Targets.jpg (109.3 KB, 7 views)

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42768 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks Bob ... relieved to know ARC ignores this setting when its activated.

Now as you see in my above graphs, ARC set the sub to 120Hz in the targets menu but ARC set the SUB/LFE xover to 60Hz in the configuration menu screen. What doe this mean? Does the sub take over at 60Hz or 120Hz?

They are two different settings.

The Target setting of 120Hz means ARC is correcting the Sub output up that high, which can be useful for LFE which can include some (not much) content up that high.

The Crossover setting uploaded into Setup has to do with how ARC uses the hardware tools (in conjunction with the Room Correction Parameter processing) to blend steered bass going from the mains to the Sub. It is sufficient to think of that setting as ignored in so far as LFE content is concerned -- just as if LFE Bypass were in effect.

You can force the Target to a value different from what ARC itself selects, but you can't force the Sub Crossover to be different without over-constraining the solution. ARC needs to be able to pick the Sub Crossover itself to match with the Crossovers in effect for the main speakers.

(Please note that if you are following the discussion in the new MRX Receivers thread for the similarly named settings in ARC 2 for those Receivers that the processing, and meaning of the settings is DIFFERENT there.)
--Bob

 

Thanks for the explanation Bob ...

 

So in summary, the Targets xover value for the sub just show how much ARC has corrected for and all LFE will be processed through that filter up to 120Hz. But the 60Hz setting is simply when the mains and sub crossover each other for normal non-LFE based music ?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42769 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 05:08 PM
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^ I think of the Sub "Cutoff" as the equivalent of Max EQ Frequency for the Sub.

The Crossover stuff is complicated because ARC is applying multiple tools to the problem of best blending the bass, and the Crossover filters are just one of those tools. But close enough.
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post #42770 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 07:22 PM
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^ Hi Bob,
in dusmoke configuration above is it ok to force all the cross-over for main and surround to for example 80hz (higher the arc recommended 60hz)
if for example we did not want to stress the surround speakers at the lower frequency ?
Or is better to leave the frequencies selected by the arc software ?
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post #42771 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 07:38 PM
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^ Sure you can play with those. You don't have to change all of the them. If all you want to do is protect the Surrounds then just change those. Keep an eye on the uncorrected dip just above the Crossover in Right Surround, and see if you can also improve that part of the solution. Reducing Room Gain a bit for Movie -- say down to 3dB -- could help with that as well.

Make any such changes in the Targets window, accept those, re-Calculate, and re-Upload. No need to re-Measure.
--Bob

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post #42772 of 42990 Old 05-11-2014, 10:53 PM
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I did manage to reduce the error in the right surround but at a cost of lower room gain of 1.5 or so. I figure that since most sound is from the front speakers and little in the surrounds(behind me to the left and right), then they would be safe from damage so i only reduced the gain to 3.0. Changing/increasing the xover helped as well. Thanks again Bob and Tranle

 


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #42773 of 42990 Old 05-12-2014, 07:51 AM
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^ That's fine. The residual error is well within reason. Presuming no damage to the solution as shown on the other charts, this looks like a good way to go.
--Bob

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post #42774 of 42990 Old 05-13-2014, 11:47 AM
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Does anyone know if it's possible to lockout the front panel buttons to prevent kids from accessing? I can't find anything in the user manual but I wanted to double check.

Thanks!

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post #42775 of 42990 Old 05-13-2014, 01:12 PM
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^ Nope. Put the unit behind a glass front door you can lock (with enough height inside and open in the back for ventilation), and then hide the remote.
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post #42776 of 42990 Old 05-13-2014, 02:21 PM
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you could sell your kids!   Ha

 

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Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post

Does anyone know if it's possible to lockout the front panel buttons to prevent kids from accessing? I can't find anything in the user manual but I wanted to double check.

Thanks!

Texas Steve
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post #42777 of 42990 Old 05-13-2014, 05:34 PM
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T
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^ Nope. Put the unit behind a glass front door you can lock (with enough height inside and open in the back for ventilation), and then hide the remote.
--Bob
thats what I figured. Thanks Bob.

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post #42778 of 42990 Old 05-14-2014, 11:44 AM
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I’m sure that this topic has been dealt with previously, but with this thread now having over 1400 pages, it’s proved to be difficult to find what I’m looking for. Last years, I updated our surround system with a 7.1 PSB Synchrony speaker system and a Anthem 700 receiver (replacing a 10year old Lexicon/M&K 150 system). I wasn’t expecting a great difference in sound quality (I was looking for HDMI inputs and decoding of the newer multi-channel processing modes), but after setting the system up and running ARC, I was amazed at the difference. The receiver seemed to handle these 4ohm speakers with ease, but was running hot, so I added MCA & A series amps and the sound subtly got even better. Well, if the 700 sounded this good, I could only imagine how much better separates would sound. So, having a very supportive and understanding wife, I sold the 700 and purchased a AVM 50v processor. The flexibility, video quality, and general build quality of the AVM is excellent. Movies sound wonderful with excellent imaging. However, I am disappointed in 2 channel music. Although the AVM has gotten rave reviews for its sound quality, I feel the 700 was more transparent and less edgy than the AVM. To my ears, music has a harshness to it and I find myself, after a relatively short time, fatigued by it.. I have searched the web for comparisons between the AVM and the D2v, but have found very little on the topic. Someone noted that the AVM has superior video processing over the D2v, but I find that hard to believe as they are both using the same video processing components. So, the question is: Does t he D2v offer superior 2 channel audio? Is there a sacrifice in video processing quality by going to the D2v? Obviously, the best solution is to listen to one, but that is proving rather difficult as my dealer does not have a D2v on the floor for comparison or evaluation. However, before I take another blind plunge, it would be helpful to get some feedback regarding these questions. So, thanks to any or all who respond to this posting.
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post #42779 of 42990 Old 05-14-2014, 01:32 PM
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I’m sure that this topic has been dealt with previously, but with this thread now having over 1400 pages, it’s proved to be difficult to find what I’m looking for. Last years, I updated our surround system with a 7.1 PSB Synchrony speaker system and a Anthem 700 receiver (replacing a 10year old Lexicon/M&K 150 system). I wasn’t expecting a great difference in sound quality (I was looking for HDMI inputs and decoding of the newer multi-channel processing modes), but after setting the system up and running ARC, I was amazed at the difference. The receiver seemed to handle these 4ohm speakers with ease, but was running hot, so I added MCA & A series amps and the sound subtly got even better. Well, if the 700 sounded this good, I could only imagine how much better separates would sound. So, having a very supportive and understanding wife, I sold the 700 and purchased a AVM 50v processor. The flexibility, video quality, and general build quality of the AVM is excellent. Movies sound wonderful with excellent imaging. However, I am disappointed in 2 channel music. Although the AVM has gotten rave reviews for its sound quality, I feel the 700 was more transparent and less edgy than the AVM. To my ears, music has a harshness to it and I find myself, after a relatively short time, fatigued by it.. I have searched the web for comparisons between the AVM and the D2v, but have found very little on the topic. Someone noted that the AVM has superior video processing over the D2v, but I find that hard to believe as they are both using the same video processing components. So, the question is: Does t he D2v offer superior 2 channel audio? Is there a sacrifice in video processing quality by going to the D2v? Obviously, the best solution is to listen to one, but that is proving rather difficult as my dealer does not have a D2v on the floor for comparison or evaluation. However, before I take another blind plunge, it would be helpful to get some feedback regarding these questions. So, thanks to any or all who respond to this posting.

Athem has stated several times to various forum members that the main difference between the two units is in the design and use of higher cost parts in the D2V analog section.
Also the D2v is designed to handle and upscale to 24/192 and the AVM50v only goes to 24/96.

Have you tried using 2 channel analog direct to eliminate any digital artifacts or are all your sources digital ?

I would hesitate any upgrade of units with so many changes in video and audio formats and technology that should be happening in the near future.
HDMI is going to 2.0 and HDCP is also changing to 2.2.
4K has to be in the Anthem lineup soon as well as hirez audio formats like DSD that almost all other manufacturers have included aleady.
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post #42780 of 42990 Old 05-14-2014, 02:44 PM
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Athem has stated several times to various forum members that the main difference between the two units is in the design and use of higher cost parts in the D2V analog section.
Also the D2v is designed to handle and upscale to 24/192 and the AVM50v only goes to 24/96.

Have you tried using 2 channel analog direct to eliminate any digital artifacts or are all your sources digital ?

I would hesitate any upgrade of units with so many changes in video and audio formats and technology that should be happening in the near future.
HDMI is going to 2.0 and HDCP is also changing to 2.2.
4K has to be in the Anthem lineup soon as well as hirez audio formats like DSD that almost all other manufacturers have included aleady.

You make some good points. I have tried using the analogue inputs, but with similar results. The real question for me is why the AVM does not sound at least as good as the 700 with music.
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