Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1432 - AVS Forum
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post #42931 of 42976 Old 06-22-2014, 05:55 PM
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The way ARC does it's sub correction is correct and the preferred way. You ideally should treat all subs as one and apply an EQ that way. While it may seem inuitive to EQ them all individually, anthem is correct in their approach. You can certainly argue that there is still manual setting of distance and phase but it's pretty straightforward to do that.
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post #42932 of 42976 Old 06-22-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
So, is a mono cable absolutely necessary, or will a stereo cable work??
Stereo cables work perfectly.
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post #42933 of 42976 Old 06-22-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Stereo cables work perfectly.

Thanks Roger. I was actually able to find a mono cable at RS, even though I could not find it on their website.

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post #42934 of 42976 Old 06-22-2014, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post
The way ARC does it's sub correction is correct and the preferred way. You ideally should treat all subs as one and apply an EQ that way. While it may seem inuitive to EQ them all individually, anthem is correct in their approach. You can certainly argue that there is still manual setting of distance and phase but it's pretty straightforward to do that.

Audyssey also treats the subs as one. But first it eq's the subs to each other, then matches them together, treating them as one, to the other speakers (and the room).
The sub matching that XT32 --and the SVS AS-EQ1 and the DSPeaker units, and others-- just saves the time needed to phase match the subs yourself.


I spent hours matching my subs using QM, and was able to get it pretty good.
I used the SVS AS-EQ1 and it took minutes and did a better job. I sold the SVS unit when I bought the Integra since XT32 had the same sub eq included.
Since I went back to Anthem I have been using the DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core. It matches my subs to each other better and faster than I can do. I then use ARC.
I stand by my statement that ARC would be improved if it were able to do dual sub equalization on top of everything else it does now. Hopefully they will include that feature on their future units.


Tom

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post #42935 of 42976 Old 06-23-2014, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Audyssey also treats the subs as one. But first it eq's the subs to each other, then matches them together, treating them as one, to the other speakers (and the room).
The sub matching that XT32 --and the SVS AS-EQ1 and the DSPeaker units, and others-- just saves the time needed to phase match the subs yourself.


I spent hours matching my subs using QM, and was able to get it pretty good.
I used the SVS AS-EQ1 and it took minutes and did a better job. I sold the SVS unit when I bought the Integra since XT32 had the same sub eq included.
Since I went back to Anthem I have been using the DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core. It matches my subs to each other better and faster than I can do. I then use ARC.
I stand by my statement that ARC would be improved if it were able to do dual sub equalization on top of everything else it does now. Hopefully they will include that feature on their future units.


Tom
This is just symantics in terminology but ARC does do multiple sub EQ it doesn't phase and level match multiple subs.

I think what you're saying--and it's a fair point--is the option to do multiple sub phase and level matching in addition to the EQ curve.

It's important to note that phase isn't part of even the single sub proceess with ARC.
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post #42936 of 42976 Old 06-23-2014, 11:04 AM
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Let's not forget that Audyssey down-samples all data to 48kHz which shocked the heck of out me. So all your Hirez sources at 96kHz, 176kHz and 192kHz will be processed at 48kHz by Audyssey. So What's the point paying extra coin for these pristine hirez sources only to be down-sampled to 48KHz??? The analogs will be output with a limited frequency range of 24 kHz(in theory).


Please see attachment of the Marantz AV8801 pre-pro which uses Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. The frequency response curve with Xt32 activated speaks for itself.

But ARC samples and processes analog signals up to 96KHz and digitals up to 192kHz. BuYah!!!


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...all-pages.html
Attached Images
File Type: gif Anthem-Room-Correction-FrequencyResponse-24-96-AudysseyXT32-On.gif (15.1 KB, 23 views)

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630

Last edited by dmusoke; 06-23-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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post #42937 of 42976 Old 06-23-2014, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Let's not forget that Audyssey down-samples all data to 48kHz which shocked the heck of out me. So all your Hirez sources at 96kHz, 176kHz and 192kHz will be processed at 48kHz by Audyssey. So What's the point paying extra coin for these pristine hirez sources only to be down-sampled to 48KHz??? The analogs will be output with a limited frequency range of 24 kHz(in theory).


Please see attachment of the Marantz AV8801 pre-pro which uses Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. The frequency response curve with Xt32 activated speaks for itself.

But ARC samples and processes analog signals up to 96KHz and digitals up to 192kHz. BuYah!!!


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...all-pages.html
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post #42938 of 42976 Old 06-24-2014, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post
This is just symantics in terminology but ARC does do multiple sub EQ it doesn't phase and level match multiple subs.

I think what you're saying--and it's a fair point--is the option to do multiple sub phase and level matching in addition to the EQ curve.

It's important to note that phase isn't part of even the single sub proceess with ARC.

I use the process explained in the link at the bottom of dmusoke's post to phase match my subs to my speakers. Takes a little extra time but its well worth it. It's an important final step when doing ARC.

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post #42939 of 42976 Old 06-24-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Let's not forget that Audyssey down-samples all data to 48kHz which shocked the heck of out me. So all your Hirez sources at 96kHz, 176kHz and 192kHz will be processed at 48kHz by Audyssey. So What's the point paying extra coin for these pristine hirez sources only to be down-sampled to 48KHz??? The analogs will be output with a limited frequency range of 24 kHz(in theory).


Please see attachment of the Marantz AV8801 pre-pro which uses Audyssey MultiEQ XT32. The frequency response curve with Xt32 activated speaks for itself.

But ARC samples and processes analog signals up to 96KHz and digitals up to 192kHz. BuYah!!!





http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...all-pages.html
Great point. I had forgotten about the down sampling that Audyssey does.
One more reason to go with ARC.

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post #42940 of 42976 Old 07-03-2014, 07:17 AM
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Will the ARC-2 software be available for the D2V-3D? Is it better than the ARC-1 software we currently use?
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post #42941 of 42976 Old 07-03-2014, 08:46 AM
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No and No. ARC-2 is more of a software upgrade for the ARC process because the new receivers work over USB. There is no benefit in terms of actually processing performance and from what I've been told by the engineers at Anthem the ARC solution in the D2V is still the most robust and capable of all Anthem products.

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post #42942 of 42976 Old 07-10-2014, 11:08 AM
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Will the D2V be able to get updated to Atmos and DTS-UHD in the near future?

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post #42943 of 42976 Old 07-10-2014, 02:33 PM
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^ That seems highly unlikely. It would take a massive hardware change to add additional speaker outputs, and in the current hardware configuration (i.e., max 7.1 output) you'd be limited in say, Atmos, to a 5.1 configuration of regular speakers plus 2 height speakers. I.e., the minimum configuration for Atmos.

Doing the firmware work needed to support just the minimum configuration hardly seems worth it.
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post #42944 of 42976 Old 07-10-2014, 06:52 PM
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Will the D2V be able to get updated to Atmos and DTS-UHD in the near future?
How many Atmos or DTS-UHD videos or recordings are there ?

And Anthem has yet to get on the 4K video bandwagon as other manufacturers and streaming sources are rapidly doing.

Maybe Anthem will surprise us with a D3
At MRSP of $10-$12000 US I'll bet
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post #42945 of 42976 Old 07-11-2014, 04:45 AM
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And Anthem has yet to get on the 4K video bandwagon as other manufacturers and streaming sources are rapidly doing.
I don't blame them, Lumagen hasn't either (well not really). Take a look in the projector or AVR forums for the disaster that is 4K right now. Currently there seem to be two tactics being taken by AVR manufacturers. Onkyo is going the HDMI 2.0b route, only 8 bit, 4:2:0 color, 10.2Gbps support but with HDCP 2.2 so it should work with the Sony Puck for 4k content. Many other manufacturers (Pioneer, etc) are going the HDMI 2.0a route, full 18Gbps support but without HDCP 2.0, so while they support the full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth for high bit depths and frame rates, there's a very good chance they won't support any commercial 4K content due to lacking HDCP 2.2. Apparently the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 chips with HDCP 2.2 are in vanishingly short supply.

So frankly it would be stupid for Anthem to release a 4K SSP today, especially if it's in the 8-10k MSRP range, since anything they would release with currently available hardware would essentially already be obsolete, especially given that there is essentially no 4k content available right now. Rumors are Lumagen is just waiting for hardware availability (presumably 18Gbps/HDCP 2.2 HDMI chips) to release their true 4K processors, if I were Anthem, I would be doing the same thing.

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Maybe Anthem will surprise us with a D3
At MRSP of $10-$12000 US I'll bet
I'd love to be surprised by an AVM60 without a video processor and the associated cost. Unless they decided to partner with Lumagen, now that would be something special. Anthem audio with Lumagen video, that would be a match made in Heaven just about.

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post #42946 of 42976 Old 07-12-2014, 10:41 AM
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I don't blame them, Lumagen hasn't either (well not really). Take a look in the projector or AVR forums for the disaster that is 4K right now. Currently there seem to be two tactics being taken by AVR manufacturers. Onkyo is going the HDMI 2.0b route, only 8 bit, 4:2:0 color, 10.2Gbps support but with HDCP 2.2 so it should work with the Sony Puck for 4k content. Many other manufacturers (Pioneer, etc) are going the HDMI 2.0a route, full 18Gbps support but without HDCP 2.0, so while they support the full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth for high bit depths and frame rates, there's a very good chance they won't support any commercial 4K content due to lacking HDCP 2.2. Apparently the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 chips with HDCP 2.2 are in vanishingly short supply.

So frankly it would be stupid for Anthem to release a 4K SSP today, especially if it's in the 8-10k MSRP range, since anything they would release with currently available hardware would essentially already be obsolete, especially given that there is essentially no 4k content available right now. Rumors are Lumagen is just waiting for hardware availability (presumably 18Gbps/HDCP 2.2 HDMI chips) to release their true 4K processors, if I were Anthem, I would be doing the same thing.

I'd love to be surprised by an AVM60 without a video processor and the associated cost. Unless they decided to partner with Lumagen, now that would be something special. Anthem audio with Lumagen video, that would be a match made in Heaven just about.
hey i think to buy AVM 50v 3D its still worth or i need to wait 4k processor?
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post #42947 of 42976 Old 07-12-2014, 12:26 PM
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That's a tough question, it sort of depends on if you "need" it (do you have something that works, or are you needing something now), budget, how long you feel you need to keep it for it to be worthwhile, etc.

The 50V is a great piece, I love mine. 4K? It's not really baked yet, we still don't really know what the requirements for "permanent" 4K systems will be (gamut, HDR, bit depth, etc), and we likely won't until the 4K Blu-ray specs are announced which seems somewhat unlikely to happen soon, maybe holiday 2015 if we're lucky. Atmos, etc? What's that going to come on, Blu-ray? How many movies use it, and are you actually going to have the 11 speakers to get the most out of it?

Personally, Anthem's got a pretty good track record of providing some sort of upgrade path (you may have to act somewhat quickly), so if you're OK upgrading in a couple years, then a 50V now could be a good option.

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post #42948 of 42976 Old 07-13-2014, 06:07 AM
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Speculating is always fun. Anthem is a boutique shop like many of the high end makers. They normally don't compete in the features category like the mass market products. If you look at the evolution way back to the AVM20 days each processor platform has had +/- a 5-10 year life cycle including an upgrade path. That's really unheard of in this market segment.

I doubt there will be any further hardware upgrades in the D2/50 platform. There will be new models on a new platform but the "when" is the issue. Anthem, as a boutique, will need to weigh when the right time to enter the market and see. Will there be HDbaseT connections? Atmos processing? Network streaming? UHD scaling? etc.

I think that once Anthem can lay out a platform foundation, see that the next gen market is ready, then you'll see that happen. But without UHD displays and UHD content in the mainstream it's still a niche and nascent market with products at a premium so I wouldn't expect any new models for at least a year and if there are new features then I'd expect to see them in the receivers first before the pre-pros.
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post #42949 of 42976 Old 07-14-2014, 09:28 AM
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Remind me...is there any way to store a configuration on a PC to upload later? My brother has his unit out for service and will be getting a loaner from the dealer. Wanting to make a copy of the config and load to the loaner unit. Can this be done?

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post #42950 of 42976 Old 07-14-2014, 09:43 AM
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Anthem had Utility programs for just this purpose (included as extra content in the ARC install download from the Anthem site).

However, I don't believe they've ever been updated to account for the changes that came with the 3D passthrough firmware.

Hopefully Nick can chime in if I'm incorrect here, but at the moment, I don't believe there is any tool to do this for you. Deep sigh....

Note that there are both Setup menu and Video Source Adjust menu settings that would need to be be saved/restored. There used to be separate Utility programs for those two.
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post #42951 of 42976 Old 07-14-2014, 12:02 PM
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I'm pretty sure I have the two old tools on my laptop. Think it would cause an issue trying to load from a D2 to D2(possibly a D2V, not sure yet)?

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post #42952 of 42976 Old 07-14-2014, 01:00 PM
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^ You should probably talk to Anthem tech support and ask them which tools you could use to do the migration. For a D2 to D2 migration, the older tools should work since that's still on firmware of the same vintage.

I've been working with the D2v/3D for so long now that I've forgotten what the status was on that stuff for the original D2.

If it's a D2 to D2v migration, your best bet is probably paper and pencil. There are quite a lot of changes in settings between those.
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post #42953 of 42976 Old 07-15-2014, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post
Remind me...is there any way to store a configuration on a PC to upload later? My brother has his unit out for service and will be getting a loaner from the dealer. Wanting to make a copy of the config and load to the loaner unit. Can this be done?

Bob or Anthem tech can confirm this, but I think you should be able to upload his most recent ARC solution to the loaner unit. Assuming that the unit will be going in the same room with the same speakers in the same positions. As always you will have to manually enter the speaker distances, but ARC will put in the speaker configurations.
BTW, its very nice that his dealer is loaning him a D2 or D2v unit. Could be wrong, but I don't think many dealers would give up their demo.


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post #42954 of 42976 Old 07-15-2014, 06:04 AM
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^ If it's D2 to D2 you should be able to just re-upload the ARC solution from the older unit. I'm pretty sure the current ARC Windows app won't balk because the serial number of the new D2 doesn't match from when the solution was built.

If it's a D2 to D2v migration you really should redo the ARC Measurement as the hardware in the D2v is capable of better processing. Of course all this depends on how long you expect to use the loaner. If just a week or so, you might want to do just the bare minimum of futzing with it.
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post #42955 of 42976 Old 07-15-2014, 10:54 AM
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I tested the following three firmware: 3.09J 3.09H and 3.10,There is a same problem with D2V.


When I play any films or audio bd which have DTS-HD master audio5.1 ,the D2V will give all four surround speakers sound(5.1-7.1) That sounds very strange.
And I am not doing any dsp mode like THX or Dolby PLIIx on it,( in the mode menu only select" None") and the D2V displays 5.1,
But it not happened with TURE HD 5.1 OR PCM5.1 ,Only two side surround speakers will works.

I changed to the 3.09 from the official link below, and it no problems.So ,maybe the V3.09 is the only right firmware for now?
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post #42956 of 42976 Old 07-15-2014, 12:13 PM
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^3.10 is only for 3D models. For non-3D models, 3.09 is the latest firmware.
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post #42957 of 42976 Old 07-15-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ If it's D2 to D2 you should be able to just re-upload the ARC solution from the older unit. I'm pretty sure the current ARC Windows app won't balk because the serial number of the new D2 doesn't match from when the solution was built.

If it's a D2 to D2v migration you really should redo the ARC Measurement as the hardware in the D2v is capable of better processing. Of course all this depends on how long you expect to use the loaner. If just a week or so, you might want to do just the bare minimum of futzing with it.
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Bob,
Maybe you can clarify this for me. I thought that the only purpose of the unit, D2 or D2v, during an ARC run was to generate test tone sweeps for each of the speakers chosen. The ARC 3.02 on the computer used for the ARC run, stored, analyzed, and created the solution. If the solution is uploaded to a D2 or D2v wouldn't the solution only be affected by the difference in the unit, not the ARC solution ??
I understand how a different mic, with a different calibration, would make a difference, but does the D2v generate different test tones than a D2 ??


Tom

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post #42958 of 42976 Old 07-16-2014, 05:29 AM
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^ The ARC solution is implemented by the hardware in the Anthem during normal listening. The ARC application knows which hardware will run the solution and builds the solution accordingly. So the solution is specific to a given model of the hardware.
--Bob

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post #42959 of 42976 Old 07-16-2014, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinza View Post
I tested the following three firmware: 3.09J 3.09H and 3.10,There is a same problem with D2V.


When I play any films or audio bd which have DTS-HD master audio5.1 ,the D2V will give all four surround speakers sound(5.1-7.1) That sounds very strange.
And I am not doing any dsp mode like THX or Dolby PLIIx on it,( in the mode menu only select" None") and the D2V displays 5.1,
But it not happened with TURE HD 5.1 OR PCM5.1 ,Only two side surround speakers will works.

I changed to the 3.09 from the official link below, and it no problems.So ,maybe the V3.09 is the only right firmware for now?
--Tinza
This is actually correct behavior according to DTS. The reason is that a "normal" 5.1 DTS mix is created assuming Side Surround speakers at 110-130 degrees -- i.e., somewhat behind the seating. Whereas the speaker placement for a 7.1 speaker layout assumes the Side Surround speakers are at 90 degrees -- i.e., even with the seating.

So if you play a 5.1 mix on a 7.1 speaker layout, DTS assumes you want the surround sound to come from IN BETWEEN the Side Surround and Rear Surround speakers. So it directs audio to all 4 Surrounds.

The earlier firmware attempted to avoid this, but DTS Certification mandated the approach implemented in this newer firmware.

This is all tied up with DTS's idea of how to implement "speaker presentations". Anthem could disable that (it's an option in the decoder implementation), but that screws up OTHER tracks -- in particular tracks that are mixed with "wide fronts" instead of "side surrounds". Trust me, this is way more bizarre than you really want to try to understand. The bottom line is the newer firmware is doing, "the right thing" for those DTS tracks.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #42960 of 42976 Old 07-16-2014, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ The ARC solution is implemented by the hardware in the Anthem during normal listening. The ARC application knows which hardware will run the solution and builds the solution accordingly. So the solution is specific to a given model of the hardware.
--Bob

Interesting. Learn something new everyday.

Thanks for the clarification.

"You can have my remote when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" tngiloy
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