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post #43651 of 43668 Old 01-21-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ So much was changed, there's not really an "upgrade" possible. Instead it is a trade-in situation. I.e., sell your D2 and buy a D2v.
--Bob
I did my D1 to D2 upgrade in July 2008 for around $2500 including the ARC plus shipping and didn't receive notice of the D2 to D2v upgrade path that was offered in 2009 that is in the stickies ad in some of the review mags.

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The original Statement D2, AVM 50, and quite possibly the AVM 40, may be discontinued soon if that hasn't already happened. Upgrades to the D2v or AVM 50v for owners of the original units should be available soon (my guess would be February for the D2 -> D2v upgrade). Upgrade pricing is not confirmed yet. Either upgrade will require shipping the unit to the Anthem factory in Canada.

The D2/AVM50 will both be upgradable (hardware upgrade) to do the D2v, so they will be HDMI 1.3c, 7.1, and will support decoding of DD TrueHD, DTS HD and DTS-HD Master
I love the D2 but they aren't selling for what they are worth right now unlike a lot of my other gear. They simply aren't selling for much on Audigon and elsewhere and the trade-in offers have been just as bad. I don't want to get stuck in between upgrades again and it's been a while.

It's unfortunate that I upgraded in 2008 and there was a major update right after that. The Paradigm guys at 2010 CES were very sympathetic that my unit was on a bench in Canada and no one thought to mention the "next" upgrade was imminent and I missed out on that upgrade window. The only thing I don't have that I'd like is proper Blu-ray/7.1 support which is a little hard to justify for $9K. I'll probably just spend money on an Oppo 105 and try running the decoded signal out to the D2 and hope I get it all set up right and deal with it until the next Statement comes out or give up and get an AVM and live with the slight downgrade.

It's a tough spot to be in money-wise. My D2 has nothing wrong with it, it just lacks the full Blu-ray support I'd like.

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post #43652 of 43668 Old 01-21-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by airboyd View Post
It's a tough spot to be in money-wise. My D2 has nothing wrong with it, it just lack the Blu-ray support I'd like.
My D2 works fine with my Blu-Ray and 3D as well.
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post #43653 of 43668 Old 01-22-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by airboyd View Post
I did my D1 to D2 upgrade in July 2008 for around $2500 including the ARC plus shipping and didn't receive notice of the D2 to D2v upgrade path that was offered in 2009 that is in the stickies ad in some of the review mags.



I love the D2 but they aren't selling for what they are worth right now unlike a lot of my other gear. They simply aren't selling for much on Audigon and elsewhere and the trade-in offers have been just as bad. I don't want to get stuck in between upgrades again and it's been a while.

It's unfortunate that I upgraded in 2008 and there was a major update right after that. The Paradigm guys at 2010 CES were very sympathetic that my unit was on a bench in Canada and no one thought to mention the "next" upgrade was imminent and I missed out on that upgrade window. The only thing I don't have that I'd like is proper Blu-ray/7.1 support which is a little hard to justify for $9K. I'll probably just spend money on an Oppo 105 and try running the decoded signal out to the D2 and hope I get it all set up right and deal with it until the next Statement comes out or give up and get an AVM and live with the slight downgrade.

It's a tough spot to be in money-wise. My D2 has nothing wrong with it, it just lacks the full Blu-ray support I'd like.
There was never an "upgrade" from the D2 to the D2v. For a short while after the D2v came out Anthem was offering a factory subsidized trade-in. I.e., what you got back was a new D2v, not your D2 modified into a D2v. Later, there was an "upgrade" from the D2v to the D2v/3D.

Unless you have a 7.1 speaker system, there's nothing lost by letting the player do the decode for movie tracks -- including the down-mix to 5.1 -- for HDMI LPCM to the D2. Even if you do have a 7.1 speaker system, back when the D2v came out there were folks posting here with comparisons between 7.1 straight to the D2v vs. 7.1 down-mixed to 5.1 (as for the multi-channel Analog inputs) and processed back up to 7.1 speaker output via PLIIx in the D2v, and as I recall folks felt that PLIIx was doing a surprisingly good job. Now that's with the 7.1 tracks of the day (which were likely not as aggressive in the Surrounds as more recent tracks).

There are of course other things the D2v (and D2v/3D) offers besides 7.1 support, so you'd have to consider those as well.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #43654 of 43668 Old 01-22-2015, 11:14 AM
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I've been using a PS3 and it's time to upgrade. I added 2 speakers for a 7.1 system late last year in anticipation of upgrading soonish.

I guess I'll try an Oppo 105 and do the down mix out and then process it back up in the D2 if I can find a post somewhere in this thread on how to configure it properly, unless someone has a link or cut an paste handy.
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post #43655 of 43668 Old 01-22-2015, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboyd View Post
I've been using a PS3 and it's time to upgrade. I added 2 speakers for a 7.1 system late last year in anticipation of upgrading soonish.

I guess I'll try an Oppo 105 and do the down mix out and then process it back up in the D2 if I can find a post somewhere in this thread on how to configure it properly, unless someone has a link or cut an paste handy.
If you are going to use HDMI Audio into the D2, then save yourself some money and get a 103 (or better yet a 103D). The 105 (and 105D) differ in having a more exotic Analog audio output solution, but that's not used at all when you are hooked up using HDMI Audio.

When hooked up using HDMI, the down mix to 5.1 happens automatically as part of the HDMI handshake. Nothing special you need to do. 7.1 tracks will be sent as HDMI LPCM 5.1 to the D2.

On the D2 side, set the Surround Mode you like in Setup > Mode Presets for that Source line -- there's a Preset choice you can make for each type of audio input. Most folks use PLIIx if they want to expand 2.0 or 5.1 input to 7.1 speaker output for movies or music. If you are using ARC, I recommend you do NOT add the optional THX post processing. If you are not sure which Surround Mode you prefer (and this is all a matter of personal preference) you can press the Mode button and use the arrow keys to cycle through the available choices according to the audio format currently coming in to the D2. What's in Setup > Mode Presets is just the default, so you can change Modes on the fly. If you decide you like some other Mode better for a given style of audio input, just change that to the default in Setup > Mode Presets for that Source line and for that style of audio input.
--Bob

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post #43656 of 43668 Old 01-22-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
If you are going to use HDMI Audio into the D2, then save yourself some money and get a 103 (or better yet a 103D). The 105 (and 105D) differ in having a more exotic Analog audio output solution, but that's not used at all when you are hooked up using HDMI Audio.

When hooked up using HDMI, the down mix to 5.1 happens automatically as part of the HDMI handshake. Nothing special you need to do. 7.1 tracks will be sent as HDMI LPCM 5.1 to the D2.

On the D2 side, set the Surround Mode you like in Setup > Mode Presets for that Source line -- there's a Preset choice you can make for each type of audio input. Most folks use PLIIx if they want to expand 2.0 or 5.1 input to 7.1 speaker output for movies or music. If you are using ARC, I recommend you do NOT add the optional THX post processing. If you are not sure which Surround Mode you prefer (and this is all a matter of personal preference) you can press the Mode button and use the arrow keys to cycle through the available choices according to the audio format currently coming in to the D2. What's in Setup > Mode Presets is just the default, so you can change Modes on the fly. If you decide you like some other Mode better for a given style of audio input, just change that to the default in Setup > Mode Presets for that Source line and for that style of audio input.
--Bob
Great advice. I will look at the 103. I have quite a few SACD's and was looking at the analog outs as being a requirement.

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Nope. The 103 will play SACD discs as HDMI LPCM 5.1 (or 2.0 according to the track you select) 88.2KHz 20-bit into the D2.

Personally, I think the 103D (for $100 more) is the better player. There are a handful other changes in it in addition to the selectable Darbee video processing.

The 105 and 105D should be in your thinking if you feel you'll want to switch to, or experiment with, Analog audio at some point. But if you know you'd prefer to stick with HDMI audio, then the 103 or 103D are definitely the way to go. By the way, they offer multi-channel Analog as well, and it is no slouch. It's just not as refined as what's in the 105/105D.
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Originally Posted by airboyd View Post
Great advice. I will look at the 103. I have quite a few SACD's and was looking at the analog outs as being a requirement.
MY SECRET to NEW HIGH-DEF audio is to use a
Blu-Ray player with DUAL HDMI outputs. I run
the High-Def and 3D Video to my projector and
I run HDMI Audio for the 2nd Audio Only Port
on my Blu-Ray player to my D2.

The player decodes all High-Def standards to LPCM.
My Player even handles ATMOS. I only own one
Blu-Ray movie with an ATMOS track.

It is EXPENDABLES 3

I have no plans to Upgrade my D2
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post #43659 of 43668 Old 01-22-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Nope. The 103 will play SACD discs as HDMI LPCM 5.1 (or 2.0 according to the track you select) 88.2KHz 20-bit into the D2.

Personally, I think the 103D (for $100 more) is the better player. There are a handful other changes in it in addition to the selectable Darbee video processing.

The 105 and 105D should be in your thinking if you feel you'll want to switch to, or experiment with, Analog audio at some point. But if you know you'd prefer to stick with HDMI audio, then the 103 or 103D are definitely the way to go. By the way, they offer multi-channel Analog as well, and it is no slouch. It's just not as refined as what's in the 105/105D.
--Bob
That is a quandary. The balanced XLR out looks like it would match up nicely with the D2 and I have a handful of stereo only SACD's. Thanks for input everyone.

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post #43660 of 43668 Old 01-24-2015, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCaduceus
Well Crap Stew that was not a good review


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick @ Anthem View Post
...unlike these:

Hi Fi News (includes measurements):

www.anthemavs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Anthem-M1_HFN_PM-1.pdf

Ultra Audio (includes measurements):

www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/equipment-menu/323-the-overwhelming-march-of-technology-anthem-statement-m1-mono-amplifiers

Hi Fi Plus:

www.hifiplus.com/articles/anthem-statement-m1/
.
.
.


Lastly, the only time that anyone identified a difference between the M1 and conventional amplification in our blind listening tests was when the class AB amps ran out of power and started clipping audibly.


Nick:


How do you explain the excessive switching noise seen on the amps output when Stereophile tested with a 10kHz square wave? How would you explain their statement below? Did they get two bad samples for review?


"Without the AP filter, the Anthem's wideband, unweighted signal/noise ratio, ref. 2.83V into 8 ohms with the input shorted, was miserable: 10.4dB, due to the ultrasonic noise"


Since our amps don't have AP filters to limits their bandwidths to 20kHz only, this switching noise(@400kHz) could damage tweeters and/or be picked up by speaker cables turning them into an antennas. A concern shared by the magazines reviewers...
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post #43661 of 43668 Old 01-24-2015, 09:51 PM
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I added a single rear speaker to my system making it 6.1 a while back.
I have some questions about what happens when DTS NEO-6 or DD-EX are applied to a 5.1 DTS-MA or DD-HD soundtrack.


1- The main question- is there any processing done to the center or fronts, or do NEO-6 and DD-EX just copy the surrounds to the rear speaker, leaving the other speakers alone ?


2- Does it make any difference whether I use DTS NEO-6 with a DD-HD track, or DD-EX with DTS-MA or should I use DTS with DTS and Dolby with Dolby?


3-Is there a difference in how DTS and Dolby handle the surrounds/rears ? I seem to remember one recommends the surrounds be almost directly to the right and left of the main listening area, and one placed them slightly to the rear of the main listening area, but I can't seem to remember which is which. My surrounds are placed a few feet behind the mlp and the rear is a few feet behind the surrounds, centered on the rear wall. Would DTS or Dolby be better ?


Thanks,
Tom

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post #43662 of 43668 Old Yesterday, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
How do you explain the excessive switching noise seen on the amps output when Stereophile tested with a 10kHz square wave? How would you explain their statement below? Did they get two bad samples for review?

"Without the AP filter, the Anthem's wideband, unweighted signal/noise ratio, ref. 2.83V into 8 ohms with the input shorted, was miserable: 10.4dB, due to the ultrasonic noise"

Since our amps don't have AP filters to limits their bandwidths to 20kHz only, this switching noise(@400kHz) could damage tweeters and/or be picked up by speaker cables turning them into an antennas. A concern shared by the magazines reviewers...
It only looks excessive because an 8-ohm resistive load is one thing and a real-world speaker load is another.

At 400,000 Hz, tweeter impedance is so high that the switching noise has a hard if not practically impossible time getting in. Taking the report at face value regardless, 2.83V reference into 8 ohms amounts to 1 watt and noise was 10.4 dB lower than this, which means its power into stated load was under a tenth of a watt. It's hard to imagine a tweeter that gets blown by a tenth of a watt let alone one that's a mere 8 ohms at 400,000 Hz.

As for the speculation over potential emissions via speaker cable, FCC certification which the M1 has suggests otherwise. For safety certification, the Statement M1 amp is classified as a commercial product due to the amount of power it's capable of putting out yet for FCC certificaton we went for its more stringent domestic spec even though we didn't have to.

Note that in your last paragraph you're paraphrasing inaccurately because nobody said the ultrasonic noise could damage tweeters - the statement in the review was about wondering whether it could happen and for that matter, I've never heard of tweeters being blown by M1s, which have been on the market for three years and counting. I'd be a lot more worried about clipping distortion from underpowered amps leading to blown tweeters.
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post #43663 of 43668 Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
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Nick:

That makes sense now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.


David


PS


I had a tech support ticket for a week now and no response from Anthem. How long should I wait?

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post #43664 of 43668 Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
I added a single rear speaker to my system making it 6.1 a while back.
I have some questions about what happens when DTS NEO-6 or DD-EX are applied to a 5.1 DTS-MA or DD-HD soundtrack.


1- The main question- is there any processing done to the center or fronts, or do NEO-6 and DD-EX just copy the surrounds to the rear speaker, leaving the other speakers alone ?


2- Does it make any difference whether I use DTS NEO-6 with a DD-HD track, or DD-EX with DTS-MA or should I use DTS with DTS and Dolby with Dolby?


3-Is there a difference in how DTS and Dolby handle the surrounds/rears ? I seem to remember one recommends the surrounds be almost directly to the right and left of the main listening area, and one placed them slightly to the rear of the main listening area, but I can't seem to remember which is which. My surrounds are placed a few feet behind the mlp and the rear is a few feet behind the surrounds, centered on the rear wall. Would DTS or Dolby be better ?


Thanks,
Tom

1) I'm not sure about Neo:6 but the EX and ES Matrix modes just apply a Dolby Pro Logic style dematrixing to produce the centre (rear) channel. They work whether the source is encoded with a matrixed centre rear channel or not.

2) It is also irrelevant if it is a Dolby or DTS format, lossy or HD. Use whichever mode you like best. There are also THX modes that you might prefer such as THX Surround EX. PLIIx and THX Ultra 2 Cinema may require 7.1 setup, not sure if they will work with 6.1.

3) You must be thinking of the 7.1 vs 5.1 speaker layouts. The latter has the surround speakers slightly back at 110 degrees. Diagrams are on the Dolby and DTS sites. I think you are alright.

There is also a setup called a THX advanced speaker array (ASA) which makes use of the distance between the two rear speakers (they can be as close as 0 feet to each other!) to optimize the THX Ultra modes. I used these modes because I built my 7.1 setup when I had a Lexicon Logic 7 processor before the days of HD Blu-Ray audio. Nowadays I exclusively use PLIIx.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
1) I'm not sure about Neo:6 but the EX and ES Matrix modes just apply a Dolby Pro Logic style dematrixing to produce the centre (rear) channel. They work whether the source is encoded with a matrixed centre rear channel or not.

2) It is also irrelevant if it is a Dolby or DTS format, lossy or HD. Use whichever mode you like best. There are also THX modes that you might prefer such as THX Surround EX. PLIIx and THX Ultra 2 Cinema may require 7.1 setup, not sure if they will work with 6.1.

3) You must be thinking of the 7.1 vs 5.1 speaker layouts. The latter has the surround speakers slightly back at 110 degrees. Diagrams are on the Dolby and DTS sites. I think you are alright.

There is also a setup called a THX advanced speaker array (ASA) which makes use of the distance between the two rear speakers (they can be as close as 0 feet to each other!) to optimize the THX Ultra modes. I used these modes because I built my 7.1 setup when I had a Lexicon Logic 7 processor before the days of HD Blu-Ray audio. Nowadays I exclusively use PLIIx.

AVStefan,
Thanks for the answer. The thing I was most worried about was that using Dolby or DTS might be downgrading a HD audio signal. From what you say, if I understand correctly, there is only a steering of the surrounds to the rear channel(s). BTW you are right about PLIIx-- it is not used with a 6.1 setup. PLIIx is actually offered in 'mode' setup, but when chosen my D2v will actually use DD-EX instead, so I ended up just choosing DD-EX or NEO-6.
I am not sure if THX would add anything since my speakers are well matched and I use ARC, but I will give it a listen.
I did look at the DD and DTS sites and my surrounds are well within the 110*. It appears to be the same 90*-110* angle for both 5.1 and 7.1 on both sites.


There is something else I was wondering about though. I have read here that others, when choosing 'none' for 5.1DTS-MA were getting sound sent to their rear channels. If I play a DTS-MA 5.1 with 'none' selected I get no (or negligible) sound out of my rear speaker. This has happened with v3.09, v3.09h&j. Does this shunting to the rears only happen with 7.1 systems?? If I could get the same sound from my rear speaker by choosing 'none' I would rather do that, but DD-EX and DTS-NEO-6 work fine. Choosing 'none' for 7.1 works fine, as it should.


Thanks again for your help,
Tom

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post #43666 of 43668 Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
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Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
There is something else I was wondering about though. I have read here that others, when choosing 'none' for 5.1DTS-MA were getting sound sent to their rear channels. If I play a DTS-MA 5.1 with 'none' selected I get no (or negligible) sound out of my rear speaker. This has happened with v3.09, v3.09h&j. Does this shunting to the rears only happen with 7.1 systems?? If I could get the same sound from my rear speaker by choosing 'none' I would rather do that, but DD-EX and DTS-NEO-6 work fine.

That is something only DTS does. I forget which version it was put in by Anthem but it might be after 3.09j and 3.10 definitely has it. Anyway you wouldn't want the "same" sound in the rear speaker(s) when you can have Dolby EX, NEO-6 or THX work their magic.

By the way some BD players can be set to use NEO-6 when decoding a soundtrack to expand it to the maximum number of channels (when set to output LPCM instead of bitstream). So I think it is more versatile than simple EX/ES processing, and probably the best choice for your 6.1 setup.

I would still check out the THX modes though. I like what they do for older (eg: mid-90's sci-fi) soundtracks that tend to be a bit loud and screechy. There is also the warm and fuzzy you get when playing something "mastered in THX"

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post #43667 of 43668 Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM
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Hi all:
I currently have a 5.1 setup for ARC but I want to disable the center channel.



1. Do I have to re-ARC for a 4.1 configuration?


2. If not, does all the center channel info get routed to the L/R mains or id it simply dropped.



Thanks,
David

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630

Last edited by dmusoke; Yesterday at 09:25 PM. Reason: formatting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Hi all:
I currently have a 5.1 setup for ARC but I want to disable the center channel.



1. Do I have to re-ARC for a 4.1 configuration?


2. If not, does all the center channel info get routed to the L/R mains or id it simply dropped.



Thanks,
David

Yes, you will need to re-run ARC with your new 4.1 speaker setup. With no 'center' chosen in ARC, it will send the center channel info to the fronts and create a phantom center channel. If you don't do that it will assume you still have a center channel speaker hooked up and send the info to nowhere. It would be the same as if you were to unhook the center speaker cables or remove the center out cable between the pre-pro and your amp. You can try that if you want to see how it sounds. Since most of the dialog is in the center channel it won't sound good. Some people are more than happy with a 4.1 setup for movies. When set up correctly it should work fine. Personally, I like a dedicated center.


Just to be nosey, why are you removing your center??


Tom

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