Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1486 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #44551 of 44574 Old 07-08-2016, 07:24 PM
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Checked the ASUS website and see what you mean.

So even the usb 2.0 motherboard headers don't work? That's a bit strange.

Sounds like I'm lucky that the ARC mic detects properly on the Surface Pro docking station.

By the way I've been told it is only the ARC mics that have a serial number that starts with 2 that have this problem, so if you can get it to work on the old laptop an option is to contact Anthem about buying a new ARC microphone that works with usb 3, but no idea how much they cost.

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post #44552 of 44574 Old 07-08-2016, 08:59 PM
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It has to be the mic itself. Wouldn't work at all on the Windows 8 laptop. So I even pulled out an old old old Windows Vista desktop tower PC and no go on that either.

Going to email Anthem and see how much a replacement will cost. And check eBay.
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post #44553 of 44574 Old 07-08-2016, 09:27 PM
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post #44554 of 44574 Old 07-08-2016, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
It has to be the mic itself. Wouldn't work at all on the Windows 8 laptop. So I even pulled out an old old old Windows Vista desktop tower PC and no go on that either.

Going to email Anthem and see how much a replacement will cost. And check eBay.
Found this one on ebay and mic serial number starts with a 3 based on what I've read previously it should work with a USB3.0 port, but Anthem support should be able to confirm this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-in-Box-A...4AAOSwhOVXdDau
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post #44555 of 44574 Old 07-09-2016, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
Found this one on ebay and mic serial number starts with a 3 based on what I've read previously it should work with a USB3.0 port, but Anthem support should be able to confirm this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-in-Box-A...4AAOSwhOVXdDau
I found another one with a '3' serial # that's cheaper, also new in box.

Before I pull the trigger...an ARC 1M kit will work just fine too, right? If I go to the support section of Anthem, a microphone serial # works for both ARC-1 and ARC-1M downloads and the mic calibration file for both downloads is identical. As far as I can tell, if I get an ARC-1M kit and use the mic cal file from it with the ARC-1 software there shouldn't be any issues.

I ask because I have a local Anthem/Paradigm dealer who may have a 1M kit I can pick up today (waiting until they open to call) which would be easiest and allow a quick return if it doesn't work.

Thanks!
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post #44556 of 44574 Old 07-09-2016, 05:35 AM
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I found another one with a '3' serial # that's cheaper, also new in box.

Before I pull the trigger...an ARC 1M kit will work just fine too, right? If I go to the support section of Anthem, a microphone serial # works for both ARC-1 and ARC-1M downloads and the mic calibration file for both downloads is identical. As far as I can tell, if I get an ARC-1M kit and use the mic cal file from it with the ARC-1 software there shouldn't be any issues.

I ask because I have a local Anthem/Paradigm dealer who may have a 1M kit I can pick up today (waiting until they open to call) which would be easiest and allow a quick return if it doesn't work.

Thanks!
Don't know I would call Anthem to check before buying an ARC 1M kit.

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post #44557 of 44574 Old 07-09-2016, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
It has to be the mic itself. Wouldn't work at all on the Windows 8 laptop. So I even pulled out an old old old Windows Vista desktop tower PC and no go on that either.

Going to email Anthem and see how much a replacement will cost. And check eBay.
Could be the USB cable has gotten damaged. Try another USB cable.
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post #44558 of 44574 Old 07-09-2016, 07:24 AM
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Could be the USB cable has gotten damaged. Try another USB cable.
--Bob
I did

I have a small collection of USB cables and none made a difference but they all worked fine with the Keyspan adapter/MRX 700 interface.

I got a good enough deal on this MRX700 so I don't mind spending a little more on a new ARC kit. Will give it a try.
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post #44559 of 44574 Old 07-11-2016, 11:59 AM
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Just got a response from Anthem while at the same time trying an ARC-1M kit my local dealer lent me: any microphone with Serial # 312000 or higher "should do the trick" for Windows 10/USB 3.0 support. I also confirmed that getting an ARC-1M kit and using the calibration file with the ARC-1 software also works just fine. A replacement mic can be ordered from Anthem for $69 plus shipping.

Looks like I am set to go.


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post #44560 of 44574 Old 07-11-2016, 06:39 PM
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That's great news!

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post #44561 of 44574 Old 07-30-2016, 09:04 AM
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From Our Learn Something New Every Day department:

If you leave Zone 3 powered up on the D2v / 3D, the Main path will power up much faster.

I find this surprising, because I wouldn't think all the parts of Main path (digital audio and video) would be booted just because Zone 3 was live.
--Bob

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post #44562 of 44574 Old 08-03-2016, 08:22 AM
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I was hoping that you folks could help me out again. I’ve adjusted some speaker positions and reran ARC. I had some very” boomy” bass and I adjusted my room gain. I found reducing it did the trick, but that honestly was through trial and error. Now I understand what room gain is, but what I do not understand is how it is addressed in the target window of ARC.

For instance the target window showed Room gain (db) 3.945749. So is ARC seeing that the room adds that gain and Arc reduces it, or does it say the room needs that gain and adds it? As of now I reduced it to 3 db and the boominess, seems to have been reduced. But I am very curious as to what ARC is doing, then my trial and error could be a bit more focused.

Next would be the Max EQ frequency, Arc offers 200-20,000 and defaults to 5,000. Why would one not use the max?

I am certain that these items have been addressed multiple times here but having a tough time tracking it down
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post #44563 of 44574 Old 08-03-2016, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
I was hoping that you folks could help me out again. I’ve adjusted some speaker positions and reran ARC. I had some very” boomy” bass and I adjusted my room gain. I found reducing it did the trick, but that honestly was through trial and error. Now I understand what room gain is, but what I do not understand is how it is addressed in the target window of ARC.

For instance the target window showed Room gain (db) 3.945749. So is ARC seeing that the room adds that gain and Arc reduces it, or does it say the room needs that gain and adds it? As of now I reduced it to 3 db and the boominess, seems to have been reduced. But I am very curious as to what ARC is doing, then my trial and error could be a bit more focused.

Next would be the Max EQ frequency, Arc offers 200-20,000 and defaults to 5,000. Why would one not use the max?

I am certain that these items have been addressed multiple times here but having a tough time tracking it down
Let's start with the 2nd question. ARC has a finite set of hardware resources to draw upon to do correction. There are more of those in the D2v than in the AVM 50 for example. The wider the frequency range you tell ARC to correct, the more spread out those resources get. Since the most important job for ARC to do is dealing with bass response for the room, and blending the bass output of the main speakers with the subwoofer, the default setting is to correct bass and only up through the mid-range -- 5 kHz.

The other problem is that getting accurate Measurements in treble is tough. Treble is a lot more directional, and so issues in Treble Measurement may be due to speaker pointing. Details of how the speakers are mounted can also be important, as well as odd things like room humidity.

And then each ARC mic has a calibration file which corrects its individual response. The ARC mic hears the entire hemisphere above the tip of the mic. So as you go up in frequency it also becomes important to correct for the polar response of the mic -- think of it as the mic's version of directionality -- its deviation from hearing that entire hemisphere equally. Depending on the geometry of mic vs. speaker placement in 3 dimensions, that correction may work more or less well.

Now, with some experience, you can learn to judge from the ARC Measurement curves how far up into the treble appears to be "good" data from the mic. For example, by comparing the different speakers, you can sometimes see uniform drop-off which means the mic isn't getting good data up there. So, of course, you don't want to try to "correct" that bad data.

Then, if you DO raise the Max EQ Frequency, you also need to be alert for problems appearing elsewhere in the ARC solution -- due to the reallocation of ARC's correction resources away from the bass region.

ARC for the D2v let's you experiment with higher values of Max EQ Frequency so you can learn for yourself how far you can extend the correction.

ARC for the new MRX AVRs does not. It has a set upper limit of 5 kHz, under the theory that MRX owners won't be doing that kind of experimentation. (If you need more correction resources in bass, you can still lower the Max EQ value.)

In my own D2v / 3D setup, I use a Max EQ Frequency of 12 kHz.

--------------------------------------------

Room Gain is a "desirable" characteristic of good listening rooms. It manifests as a small boost in the bass frequencies, and you perceive it as the difference between a good listening room and a dead or anechoic room. Very large rooms, or rooms with extensive "bass treatment" have low Room Gain.

People who mix audio for movies assume the Room Gain of the listening room will be in the range 2-4dB. There's not really much consensus on this from people who mix audio for music, but the general result is that music mixes assume somewhat less Room Gain -- perhaps 1dB less.

The simple way to do an ARC-like solution would be to produce "flat" response down through the bass, but that would eliminate the Room Gain inherent in the listening room, and leave things sounding less natural.

Instead, ARC attempts to measure the inherent Room Gain of the listening room and preserve that as part of the ARC solution.

On the ARC charts, Room Gain manifests as the shallow hump in the Target curves down below, say 120Hz. If there were no Crossover processing, that hump's peak level would be flat all the way to the lowest frequencies. But instead the Crossover rolls that off.

If you look at the flat part of the ARC Target curves to the right of that -- in the mid-range frequencies -- what you've got is the Basic Volume Level of the Target ARC solution. The numeric value for Room Gain is simply the height of the peak of that Room Gain hump over the Basic Volume Level, in dB.

Now, Measuring the inherent Room Gain in the room is not easy. The inherent bass output of the speakers, and how they couple with the room, can produce dips or peaks in bass output not really related to Room Gain.

So ARC has some built in limits to the Room Gain it will select automatically for the ARC solution. It won't apply a negative Room Gain, as that has no useful physical meaning. And it won't apply a Room Gain above +4dB, as higher values are more likely to be the result of Measurement problems such as just mentioned.

For technical reasons of how the ARC math works, that 3.9...dB Room Gain value you quoted is how the +4dB limit shows up.

If you look at the Measured curves for your speakers, you will likely find they are hot in bass. This may be due either to the design of the speakers themselves, or due to how you have them physically positioned in the room -- bass resonances due to the way the speaker is coupling with the room's geometry. You can use the ARC Quick Measure Tool to see if modest repositioning of the speakers with respect to the walls reduces that unnaturally hot bass. Then redo your ARC setup.

In the ARC Targets window, you can adjust the Room Gain built into the solution -- including putting in a value MORE than +4dB if you want.

Lowering Room Gain because you think bass is overemphasized is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But don't eliminate it entirely. Try +2dB or +3dB for example.
--Bob
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post #44564 of 44574 Old 08-03-2016, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Let's start with the 2nd question. ARC has a finite set of hardware resources to draw upon to do correction. There are more of those in the D2v than in the AVM 50 for example. The wider the frequency range you tell ARC to correct, the more spread out those resources get. Since the most important job for ARC to do is dealing with bass response for the room, and blending the bass output of the main speakers with the subwoofer, the default setting is to correct bass and only up through the mid-range -- 5 kHz.

The other problem is that getting accurate Measurements in treble is tough. Treble is a lot more directional, and so issues in Treble Measurement may be due to speaker pointing. Details of how the speakers are mounted can also be important, as well as odd things like room humidity.

And then each ARC mic has a calibration file which corrects its individual response. The ARC mic hears the entire hemisphere above the tip of the mic. So as you go up in frequency it also becomes important to correct for the polar response of the mic -- think of it as the mic's version of directionality -- its deviation from hearing that entire hemisphere equally. Depending on the geometry of mic vs. speaker placement in 3 dimensions, that correction may work more or less well.

Now, with some experience, you can learn to judge from the ARC Measurement curves how far up into the treble appears to be "good" data from the mic. For example, by comparing the different speakers, you can sometimes see uniform drop-off which means the mic isn't getting good data up there. So, of course, you don't want to try to "correct" that bad data.

Then, if you DO raise the Max EQ Frequency, you also need to be alert for problems appearing elsewhere in the ARC solution -- due to the reallocation of ARC's correction resources away from the bass region.

ARC for the D2v let's you experiment with higher values of Max EQ Frequency so you can learn for yourself how far you can extend the correction.

ARC for the new MRX AVRs does not. It has a set upper limit of 5 kHz, under the theory that MRX owners won't be doing that kind of experimentation. (If you need more correction resources in bass, you can still lower the Max EQ value.)

In my own D2v / 3D setup, I use a Max EQ Frequency of 12 kHz.

--------------------------------------------

Room Gain is a "desirable" characteristic of good listening rooms. It manifests as a small boost in the bass frequencies, and you perceive it as the difference between a good listening room and a dead or anechoic room. Very large rooms, or rooms with extensive "bass treatment" have low Room Gain.

People who mix audio for movies assume the Room Gain of the listening room will be in the range 2-4dB. There's not really much consensus on this from people who mix audio for music, but the general result is that music mixes assume somewhat less Room Gain -- perhaps 1dB less.

The simple way to do an ARC-like solution would be to produce "flat" response down through the bass, but that would eliminate the Room Gain inherent in the listening room, and leave things sounding less natural.

Instead, ARC attempts to measure the inherent Room Gain of the listening room and preserve that as part of the ARC solution.

On the ARC charts, Room Gain manifests as the shallow hump in the Target curves down below, say 120Hz. If there were no Crossover processing, that hump's peak level would be flat all the way to the lowest frequencies. But instead the Crossover rolls that off.

If you look at the flat part of the ARC Target curves to the right of that -- in the mid-range frequencies -- what you've got is the Basic Volume Level of the Target ARC solution. The numeric value for Room Gain is simply the height of the peak of that Room Gain hump over the Basic Volume Level, in dB.

Now, Measuring the inherent Room Gain in the room is not easy. The inherent bass output of the speakers, and how they couple with the room, can produce dips or peaks in bass output not really related to Room Gain.

So ARC has some built in limits to the Room Gain it will select automatically for the ARC solution. It won't apply a negative Room Gain, as that has no useful physical meaning. And it won't apply a Room Gain above +4dB, as higher values are more likely to be the result of Measurement problems such as just mentioned.

For technical reasons of how the ARC math works, that 3.9...dB Room Gain value you quoted is how the +4dB limit shows up.

If you look at the Measured curves for your speakers, you will likely find they are hot in bass. This may be due either to the design of the speakers themselves, or due to how you have them physically positioned in the room -- bass resonances due to the way the speaker is coupling with the room's geometry. You can use the ARC Quick Measure Tool to see if modest repositioning of the speakers with respect to the walls reduces that unnaturally hot bass. Then redo your ARC setup.

In the ARC Targets window, you can adjust the Room Gain built into the solution -- including putting in a value MORE than +4dB if you want.

Lowering Room Gain because you think bass is overemphasized is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But don't eliminate it entirely. Try +2dB or +3dB for example.
--Bob
Bob,

I really appreciate you putting the time in to address my questions so throughly. It is extremely helpful, and cleared up so many issues for me. I look forward to applying what I've learned.

G
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post #44565 of 44574 Old 08-09-2016, 08:32 AM
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Darbee and the D2v

Are any folks using a Darbee with their AVM/D2's??

if so does it produce a picture you could not produce with the D2v alone?

very curious

thx
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post #44566 of 44574 Old 08-09-2016, 09:24 AM
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^ Yes -- OPPO 105D Blu-ray player with built-in Darbee.

And, Yes. Set Darbee processing to a low value -- the effect should be subtle. In the OPPO, Darbee Hi-def 35% works well with most HD content. Some few films do NOT work well with Darbee -- it looks "over processed". The last Hobbit film is a good example. So be alert for that and turn Darbee OFF if you spot that.
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post #44567 of 44574 Old 08-09-2016, 11:28 AM
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Anyone use an Nvidia Shield with a D2V? Work OK with no issues?? Am thinking about getting on to use in our theater and run through the D2V.

Thanks.

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post #44568 of 44574 Old 08-09-2016, 12:24 PM
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Anyone use an Nvidia Shield with a D2V? Work OK with no issues?? Am thinking about getting on to use in our theater and run through the D2V.

Thanks.
I tried the Shield with my D2V for a while using KODI and SPMC from my server shares.

Bitstreaming TrueHD and DTS-HD worked perfectly but on my system I could not get perfect 24hz playback from ripped Blu-ray files. Every once and a while there would be a frame skip or jump noticeable on slow panning scenes. It could be that my projector is long in the tooth or something else in the settings but it was enough for me to return the Shield.

I tried it Shield>D2V>JVC RS-1 Projector using short runs of HDMI.
I set video 1 to 1080P 24 and it showed 24hz through the D2V and at the projector end.
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post #44569 of 44574 Old 08-10-2016, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Yes -- OPPO 105D Blu-ray player with built-in Darbee.

And, Yes. Set Darbee processing to a low value -- the effect should be subtle. In the OPPO, Darbee Hi-def 35% works well with most HD content. Some few films do NOT work well with Darbee -- it looks "over processed". The last Hobbit film is a good example. So be alert for that and turn Darbee OFF if you spot that.
--Bob
Ok,

Just ordered the stand alone unit. I'll give it a shot, I'm using a Panasonic ZT60 Plasma so should be interesting to see what it can do
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post #44570 of 44574 Old 08-17-2016, 08:07 AM
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I have a Samsung plasma hooked up to my AVM50v-3D via HDMI OUT 1 and a BenQ projector hooked to HDMI OUT 2. I can run the Samsung by itself with no problem. I can run both the Samsung and BenQ together with no problem. However, if I just try to run the BenQ I get video drop-outs unless I unplug the HDMI cable from the Samsung. Any suggestions on how to get this working? I can't change the HDMI cable going to the projector...

Thanks!
--Chuck
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post #44571 of 44574 Old 08-17-2016, 03:04 PM
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^ Try switching the Samsung to a different HDMI Input (e.g., one that isn't connected) before turning the Samsung OFF. That should be equivalent to disconnecting the cable to the Samsung.

However, there are various reasons why the Samsung may be keeping that HDMI Input "live" even when the Samsung is OFF. The two most common are HDMI CEC (remote control over the HDMI cable) and HDMI ARC (audio return channel from the TV back to the Anthem). HDMI CEC may be called just about anything. Look for words related to turning on another device or changing its input selections, or for the other device to turn on the Samsung.

Now, HDMI CEC can usually be disabled by settings, if you can find the words above. HDMI ARC and HDMI CEC may also only be available on one of the TV's HDMI Inputs. In which case, the easiest way to get rid of them is to cable to a different HDMI Input on the Samsung. The Anthem doesn't support either HDMI CEC or HDMI ARC so there's no value in keeping those enabled in the Samsung, as it will only complicate HDMI handshakes.
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post #44572 of 44574 Old 08-18-2016, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Try switching the Samsung to a different HDMI Input (e.g., one that isn't connected) before turning the Samsung OFF. That should be equivalent to disconnecting the cable to the Samsung.

However, there are various reasons why the Samsung may be keeping that HDMI Input "live" even when the Samsung is OFF. The two most common are HDMI CEC (remote control over the HDMI cable) and HDMI ARC (audio return channel from the TV back to the Anthem). HDMI CEC may be called just about anything. Look for words related to turning on another device or changing its input selections, or for the other device to turn on the Samsung.

Now, HDMI CEC can usually be disabled by settings, if you can find the words above. HDMI ARC and HDMI CEC may also only be available on one of the TV's HDMI Inputs. In which case, the easiest way to get rid of them is to cable to a different HDMI Input on the Samsung. The Anthem doesn't support either HDMI CEC or HDMI ARC so there's no value in keeping those enabled in the Samsung, as it will only complicate HDMI handshakes.
--Bob
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately it didn't help. HDMI CEC was off on the Samsung but I was using the HDMI input that supported ARC so I changed that. No difference. I then changed to an unused input before turning it off and that was actually worse - once the video dropped to the projector it never came back on until I turned the television back on. Oh well, not that big of a deal, just a minor inconvenience.
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post #44573 of 44574 Old 08-18-2016, 08:54 PM
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D2 freezing during power on

My D2 started freezing in the power on stage. After a few on/off cycles it will get past it and recognize the proper input and display video, but I'm starting to worry. Any thoughts? Hardware or software problem?
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post #44574 of 44574 Old Today, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately it didn't help. HDMI CEC was off on the Samsung but I was using the HDMI input that supported ARC so I changed that. No difference. I then changed to an unused input before turning it off and that was actually worse - once the video dropped to the projector it never came back on until I turned the television back on. Oh well, not that big of a deal, just a minor inconvenience.
Quick update - I originally had the projector, which is used less often, connected to HDMI-OUT 2 and the Samsung connected to HDMI-OUT 1. Yesterday I switched those so the projector is connected to HDMI-OUT 1 and everything is working now. I can watch either display independently or both together, and no video dropouts.
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