Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 1497 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #44881 of 44898 Old 06-18-2017, 07:24 AM
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post #44882 of 44898 Old 06-23-2017, 08:00 AM
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Have an interesting situation I need advice on..

I have 2 sub15's and an anthem avm60..

For now, I don't want to run ARC on anthem as I find without ARC in my room seems better..

So question..

Would I do a PBK reading from each sub separate, then, set levels and average distance for both subs together.?.
I know it's best to eq subs together, but since I want bass eq, with no ARC.. Or if down the road had to get a different preamp with no eq, what is recommended..


If yes to eq each sub seperate, then question on mic locations..

One sub is doing bass for center seat to extreme right seats... It does not really add do any good bass from center to left most seats...
So second sub, does the bass from center seat to extreme left seats.

Together both subs give even bass across the entire seating area...

What locations for each sub would be best for readings..
Thanks

Thanks

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post #44883 of 44898 Old 06-23-2017, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Have an interesting situation I need advice on..

I have 2 sub15's and an anthem avm60..

For now, I don't want to run ARC on anthem as I find without ARC in my room seems better..

So question..

Would I do a PBK reading from each sub separate, then, set levels and average distance for both subs together.?.
I know it's best to eq subs together, but since I want bass eq, with no ARC.. Or if down the road had to get a different preamp with no eq, what is recommended..


If yes to eq each sub seperate, then question on mic locations..

One sub is doing bass for center seat to extreme right seats... It does not really add do any good bass from center to left most seats...
So second sub, does the bass from center seat to extreme left seats.

Together both subs give even bass across the entire seating area...

What locations for each sub would be best for readings..
Thanks

Thanks

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
I'm a firm believer in placing at least one sub close to you (or behind you) and the other up front. Not that you want to hear most from the closest sub but the bass sounds best to me, as I've had 2 SVS SB16 subs up front and 1 sub front and 2nd sub five feet to the left of me.

The trick to getting the best from dual subs is phase matching the subs. In my case, I left the phase of the first sub to its default 0 degrees. I then adjusted the phase of the 2nd sub, the one closest to me, until the combined frequency response was as even and maximal as possible.

Of course, each sub had been gain calibrated to produce 75dB at my MLP (Others use 72-73dB but I like mine a little hot). ARC's Live Measure tool will help you determine the best and optimal phase angle of the 2nd sub as you see how the shape of the combined frequency response varies with phase angle. Once this angle has been determined, you lock it in the sub and make sure you never change it, unless you relocate that sub.

Probably, the reason why you felt the subwoofer sound was better w/o ARC than with ARC was that the subs were not been optimized to play as 1 virtual sub. That's the key...to have them appear acoustically as one wide sub. Also, I use a D2v prepro and the Subwoofer Target Settings has an option setting to the set the HPF order to 'Flat' and not Auto or something else. "Flat" ensures ARC follows the frequency response of your virtual sub and not try to contour it like the "Auto" setting does...

The last thing to do is to time-align this 1 virtual sub to your mains by determining the optimal subwoofer distance to enter into your AVM60 within the xover region. The Anthem manual gives a few ways of doing it. I use a more advanced method which might or might not appeal to you (see my signature for details).

These two things are responsible for the best tactile, 3-dimensional bass I've ever had in my living room. Best of luck!

- David

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44884 of 44898 Old 06-23-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
I'm a firm believer in placing at least one sub close to you (or behind you) and the other up front. Not that you want to hear most from the closest sub but the bass sounds best to me, as I've had 2 SVS SB16 subs up front and 1 sub front and 2nd sub five feet to the left of me.

The trick to getting the best from dual subs is phase matching the subs. In my case, I left the phase of the first sub to its default 0 degrees. I then adjusted the phase of the 2nd sub, the one closest to me, until the combined frequency response was as even and maximal as possible.

Of course, each sub had been gain calibrated to produce 75dB at my MLP (Others use 72-73dB but I like mine a little hot). ARC's Live Measure tool will help you determine the best and optimal phase angle of the 2nd sub as you see how the shape of the combined frequency response varies with phase angle. Once this angle has been determined, you lock it in the sub and make sure you never change it, unless you relocate that sub.

Probably, the reason why you felt the subwoofer sound was better w/o ARC than with ARC was that the subs were not been optimized to play as 1 virtual sub. That's the key...to have them appear acoustically as one wide sub. Also, I use a D2v prepro and the Subwoofer Target Settings has an option setting to the set the HPF order to 'Flat' and not Auto or something else. "Flat" ensures ARC follows the frequency response of your virtual sub and not try to contour it like the "Auto" setting does...

The last thing to do is to time-align this 1 virtual sub to your mains by determining the optimal subwoofer distance to enter into your AVM60 within the xover region. The Anthem manual gives a few ways of doing it. I use a more advanced method which might or might not appeal to you (see my signature for details).

These two things are responsible for the best tactile, 3-dimensional bass I've ever had in my living room. Best of luck!

- David
Thanks for awesome reply...

Actually, I loved what ARC did for subs, but not so much for rest of speakers.
Hence , why I don't want to use ARC but, still want the results of ARC for my subs..
Since my subs have PBK built in, I was looking for an alternative to using ARC In anthem..keeping rest of my speakers unaltered

I ages with your sub setup, thst is how I did find in the end thr locations..
One ended up in front and other in rear.
The one in rear does center seat to extreme left seats...
And front seems to work best for center seat to extreme right seats...

They each do half thr seating area... Just way my unfinished room is...

Thanks

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
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post #44885 of 44898 Old 06-23-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post
Thanks for awesome reply...

Actually, I loved what ARC did for subs, but not so much for rest of speakers.
Hence , why I don't want to use ARC but, still want the results of ARC for my subs..
Since my subs have PBK built in, I was looking for an alternative to using ARC In anthem..keeping rest of my speakers unaltered

I ages with your sub setup, thst is how I did find in the end thr locations..
One ended up in front and other in rear.
The one in rear does center seat to extreme left seats...
And front seems to work best for center seat to extreme right seats...

They each do half thr seating area... Just way my unfinished room is...

Thanks

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
1. You can limit ARC's operation to 200Hz or whatever the lower limit is for the AVM60. The so-called 'Schroeder frequency' is the range of frequencies where the room resonance has the most effect on sound waves. It's about 200Hz meaning at frequencies from up to 200Hz, the bass response is going to be determined by your room dimensions. You can tell ARC to work its magic up to 200Hz. It's ok to extend it to 300Hz, depending on what your ARC plots look like. In that way, it leaves all other frequencies untouched.

Without in play, you are missing out on the other bass management stuff that it does, such as speaker trims, optimized xover settings, and speaker phase distortion corrections which help integrate the sound into a better whole sound field.

2. With the rear sub, you need to adjust its phase until its perfectly blended with the front sub to eliminate room peaks and nulls. You are guaranteed that by placing it in the rear, the front and rear subs are out-of-phase with the front sub. This produces weak and inconsistent bass. You do not want that to happen.

Follow the procedure I mentioned above to phase match the subs after they've each been gain matched to 75dB at the MLP using your trust analog or digital sound pressure meter. I use a radioshack one, but others exist as well.

Good luck!

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44886 of 44898 Old 06-25-2017, 04:32 PM
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Any 4K upgrades to the D2v(3D) video board?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44887 of 44898 Old 06-26-2017, 05:54 AM
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ARC Advanced Target Customization

Good day to all!

Wondering how to customize dual subs - once the HPF is set to "Flat" instead of Auto.

The real question is what to set the "Min Subwoofer EQ Freq" (i.e., 20; 30; 40; etc.)?

My subs are Paradigm Prestige 2000s and my mains are the original Paradigm Signature 8s placed in a large and wide open acoustically treated room.

Thanks.
-Mikey
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post #44888 of 44898 Old 06-26-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianJB7 View Post
Good day to all!

Wondering how to customize dual subs - once the HPF is set to "Flat" instead of Auto.

The real question is what to set the "Min Subwoofer EQ Freq" (i.e., 20; 30; 40; etc.)?

My subs are Paradigm Prestige 2000s and my mains are the original Paradigm Signature 8s placed in a large and wide open acoustically treated room.

Thanks.
-Mikey
Set to the lowest frequency of 20Hz as that is the frequency it'll equalize to flat. Beyond that, it'll just follow the natural bass response curve of your subwoofer's interaction with the room.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44889 of 44898 Old 06-26-2017, 01:39 PM
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All hail the new HDMI 2.1 standard

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44890 of 44898 Old 06-26-2017, 07:57 PM
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Well I received a message from the repairer regarding the fixes for my D2v (HDMI & Display). He said the HDMI board will be zero cost just a fee for the install. The display will be a costly fix $1,225.00 AUD plus install fee. I'm very surprised at this cost as it's a VFD display and the repairer was surprised as well that it can't be sent as just the VFD Module and not an entire board replacement.

In the time I've owned the unit I've already had the HDMI board and main display replaced under warranty and then the HDMI went faulty again around the time the 3D upgrade was released and I was able to get that upgrade for nothing due to the constant issues I had originally. The unit has been working flawlessly since the 3D upgrade but now the HDMI 1 output is not working and the front display doesn't illuminate all characters equally.

I want to sell the unit as I'm downsizing my setup and go a receiver (selling my 5 channel TAS Krell amp) so not sure if I should spend the money and get it all repaired or just get the HDMI board done and sell as is with the display. It's only some characters that aren't as bright as some others depending what you select on the display. I personally don't use the front display it's always off unless I need to use ARC.
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post #44891 of 44898 Old Yesterday, 05:21 AM
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Set to the lowest frequency of 20Hz as that is the frequency it'll equalize to flat. Beyond that, it'll just follow the natural bass response curve of your subwoofer's interaction with the room.
Dmusoke,
Thanks for the tip to set the min sub EQ freq to 20 when selecting flat.

I selected 60 to match the mains' cutoff freq thinking "minimum" is where the freg would roll off from.

Thanks again.
-Mikey
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post #44892 of 44898 Old Yesterday, 10:50 AM
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Now, if are one if the lucky ones who has a sub response that rises upwards in gain as frequency decreases, you might want to preserve that gain by having a higher minimum sub EQ frequency, or else ARC will 'flatten' that gain down to 20Hz, if 20Hz is chosen instead. But itsbest to post a pic of your ARCs sub response...makes it lots easier to offer advice once you get to see the 'problem'

- David

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44893 of 44898 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Now, if are one if the lucky ones who has a sub response that rises upwards in gain as frequency decreases, you might want to preserve that gain by having a higher minimum sub EQ frequency, or else ARC will 'flatten' that gain down to 20Hz, if 20Hz is chosen instead. But itsbest to post a pic of your ARCs sub response...makes it lots easier to offer advice once you get to see the 'problem'

- David
David,
Thanks for the help. Attached is a pic of ARC with sub set to flat with min freq at 20.
-Mikey
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post #44894 of 44898 Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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David,
Thanks for the help. Attached is a pic of ARC with sub set to flat with min freq at 20.
-Mikey
Yup, leave it flat 20Hz... How does your system sound now than before?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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Yup, leave it flat 20Hz... How does your system sound now than before?
David,

Hard to say, but it appears the midrange is more defined. The sound is clear & detailed with a deep and robust soundstage. The bass still needs a little work.

The next tweak is getting the phase absolutely correct for both subs.

Thank you for all of your advice.
-Mikey
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post #44896 of 44898 Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
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David,

Hard to say, but it appears the midrange is more defined. The sound is clear & detailed with a deep and robust soundstage. The bass still needs a little work.

The next tweak is getting the phase absolutely correct for both subs.

Thank you for all of your advice.
-Mikey
The surprise for me was that once I optimized both subs in phase and distance, the midrange improved a lot. I don't know why this was so but I liked it. Based on your sub response, I see no major peaks or nulls, so they could be optimized already. But it's worth the effort to go through the process nonetheless, if not to get acquainted with it.

Remember for phase opt. set one sub to zero degrees and adjust the phase of the other sub until you get a combined FR of the new 'virtual sub' that is as flat and wide and deep as possible.

For distance optimization, I'd play low-frequency noise that exercises the subs and front speakers. Adjust the distance setting in the Anthem until you measure the highest SPL coming out of both your subs and front mains. I'd use the left front for simplicity and assume it in perfect phase with the right front which is a reasonable assumption.

The second option is to reverse the polarity of the front main speakers, then adjust the distance setting until you get a minimum SPL from your speakers. Once you get that distance, then save it and remember to reverse the polarity of the front mains before settling down for a listen.

Instead of LF noise, I personally use test tones around the xover frequencies that ARC has suggested, normally 60 - 90Hz and find the optimized distance for each test tone and average them or pick the one that corresponds fo the xover frequency ARC has suggested.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #44897 of 44898 Old Today, 05:23 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
The surprise for me was that once I optimized both subs in phase and distance, the midrange improved a lot. I don't know why this was so but I liked it. Based on your sub response, I see no major peaks or nulls, so they could be optimized already. But it's worth the effort to go through the process nonetheless, if not to get acquainted with it.

Remember for phase opt. set one sub to zero degrees and adjust the phase of the other sub until you get a combined FR of the new 'virtual sub' that is as flat and wide and deep as possible.

For distance optimization, I'd play low-frequency noise that exercises the subs and front speakers. Adjust the distance setting in the Anthem until you measure the highest SPL coming out of both your subs and front mains. I'd use the left front for simplicity and assume it in perfect phase with the right front which is a reasonable assumption.

The second option is to reverse the polarity of the front main speakers, then adjust the distance setting until you get a minimum SPL from your speakers. Once you get that distance, then save it and remember to reverse the polarity of the front mains before settling down for a listen.

Instead of LF noise, I personally use test tones around the xover frequencies that ARC has suggested, normally 60 - 90Hz and find the optimized distance for each test tone and average them or pick the one that corresponds fo the xover frequency ARC has suggested.
I'll give it a go.

After about 10 years with the D2 & ARC, it still remains a fun and challenging pursuit to extract an optimal sounding solution for music & movies.
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post #44898 of 44898 Old Today, 07:39 PM
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When new model with HDMI 2.0 & 4K Ultra HD?

Based on a quick search, I found one report in this forum of 4K Ultra HD working with the D2v 3D. What is everyone's experience in that regard, as I am about to purchase a 4K Ultra HD projector with 4K sources.

I called Anthem and asked if the D2v 3D works with 4K and was flatly told it would not. I asked about a new model with HDMI 2.0. The tech support person chuckled and said he couldn't comment.

But Anthem already came out with a model that is 4K compatible -- the AVM 60. So Anthem is clearly aware of the problem. I'm not sure if other manufacturers have released processors that work with HDMI 2.0 and 4K, but I assume so. If Anthem does not soon release a new processor, it won't be able to compete in the market.

We are finally at the point of critical mass -- prices of 4K TVs and projectors are dropping, and the amount of 4K material to watch is increasing. Anthem must be part of this, or be left behind.

I love my D2v 3D, but it is time for Anthem to release a new model. This thread was launched in 2006 -- 11 years ago. The model is reaching the end of its useful life.

The only question is when will Anthem release a new model?

And how close is the AVM 60 to the sound and video quality of the D2v 3D? The AVM 60 is a newer model, as compared with a model that costs three time more, but is based on an 11 year old design?

Thanks in advance for any comments and observations.
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