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post #44941 of 44955 Old 09-01-2017, 11:30 AM
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Help me make sense of my ARC results

I recently ran ARC on my D2 for the first time and Im a little perplexed by the targets it set.

I changed the "movie" BM targets to all 90hz crossovers and set the subwoofer cutoff to 120hz but I left the "music" BM mode targets default.

Im a little surprised by some of the settings ARC choose, for example 65hz cutoff and crossover for my fronts but 110 hz for my center. Also the subwoofer cutoff was set to 80hz, but the crossover 110hz.

My fonts and surrounds are the same floor standing speaker and are rated to 45hz. The center is rated to 50hz. My sub is a sealed 18" and the room is 24'x25'.

Im finding that the default targets actually sound a bit better subjectively, at least for music. The bass in "movie" mode (my targets) is fuller but sounds a little more boomy and peaky. Im wondering if there was a legitimate reason ARC choose these targets? I generally like to use a global crossover around 80-100hz to increase my system headroom but in this case should I stick with the default targets?
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Last edited by nickwin; 09-01-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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post #44942 of 44955 Old 09-01-2017, 12:52 PM
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^ Based on your Measured results, your room appears to be eating frequencies (room Cancellation Dip) between 100 and 200Hz. This is probably why ARC has chosen such a low Room Gain value. (Typical values would be 2-4dB for Room Gain.)

It also means that your Center measures as having a Resonance Peak around 100 Hz -- i.e., as it comes sharply out of that dip. This is probably why ARC set its Crossover that high -- to help eliminate that excess energy. This is by no means ideal, as a Center Crossover above around 100Hz starts steering noticeable amounts of male dialog into the Subwoofer, which is not a good thing.

I suggest you use the Quick Measure feature in Tools -- shows realtime results for one speaker at one mic location -- and see if repositioning the speakers a bit further away from walls and corners helps smooth out the results between, say, 80 and 200 Hz. If your speakers have any adjustments for bass or low mid-range output (ports, for example, that can be open/closed, or response curve settings), check that these are set appropriately -- typically meaning to do nothing and let the speaker produce what it produces naturally.)

-------------------

You can't specify the "Crossover" for the Sub. ARC needs the freedom to pick a Sub Crossover that works best with the Crossover frequency(s) selected for the other speakers.

You CAN specify the Cutoff for the Sub -- which is like a "MAX EQ" setting for the Subwoofer in that it tells ARC how far up in bass frequencies to assign correction resources to the Sub output. It is not unusual for your choice of Sub Cutoff, and the upload value for Sub Crossover to be different. A higher Cutoff than Crossover is still meaningful in terms of reproduction of the LFE channel (the .1 of 5.1 or 7.1), which can go up to about 120Hz although the bulk of its energy is usually between 50 and 80Hz. I.e., if ARC is allowed to correct the Sub higher in bass, then you get better results from the high frequency end of the LFE channel. But if doing that screws up the rest of the Sub correction then you are assigning to many correction resources up there and need to be more conservative.

------------------

Keep in mind that these things roll into effect over about one octave (factor of 2 in frequency). So for example if you set a Cutoff of 80Hz for the fronts, that means you should be looking for a good fit in the result (match of Calculated curve to Targets curve) down to 1/2 that, or 40Hz. I.e., the fronts should be able to produce quality output (after correction) down to 40Hz because that range from 80 to 40Hz is where they'll be sharing output responsibilities with the portion of bass that's steered to the Sub.

Often ARC will pick a higher Cutoff for a main speaker because it discovers it can't correct that speaker well all the way down to 1/2 some lower frequency. But in the case of your Center speaker, I think it has picked 110Hz because it is trying to use Crossover as another tool to tame that Resonance Peak at 100Hz.
--Bob
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post #44943 of 44955 Old 09-08-2017, 09:46 AM
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Thread topic question

Can I post for my ARC curves from my Anthem MRX1120 in this thread, or is there a more appropriate one?
Thanks.
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post #44944 of 44955 Old 09-19-2017, 09:10 AM
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Are ARC filters stored when updating FW or do you need to reload them after updating?

thanks.
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post #44945 of 44955 Old 09-19-2017, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nickwin View Post
Are ARC filters stored when updating FW or do you need to reload them after updating?

thanks.
My understanding is that the correction parameters are in separate memory the firmware update doesn't touch. Even the Reset Factory Defaults you have to do before the firmware install doesn't erase them.

That said, it's always been my practice to re-Upload my existing ARC solution after a firmware update (or any other Reset) -- "just in case".
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post #44946 of 44955 Old 09-19-2017, 08:35 PM
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Is my d2v dying? Losing picture at random intervals.

Over the past few weeks, I've started losing picture outright on all the sources connected to my d2v.

I haven't touched the physical system or connected anything differently, it just started happening at random. The only "new" thing in my system is a Harmony Elite remote, but I don't see how that could cause random video drop outs.

I can sometimes restore picture by rebooting the d2v, but lately that isn't even bringing the picture back. I can hear audio on the inputs, just no video. The only sure-fire way I've been able to bring the video back is to pull out my whole rack, unplug the HDMI cable from the Output port, and plug it back in.

I've double-checked that all cables are firmly seated in both the d2v and my source devices. It's also not the TV, because the TV's OSD menus still display if video is lost.

Since the device is well out of warranty at this point, I'm not sure how much something like this would cost to repair (I've just sent a message to Anthem Support), or if it would even be worth it. I've been happy with the AV performance of the unit, but have frankly been disappointed with its clunky menus and flaky HDMI support.

I need to upgrade all of my gear eventually for 4k, but was hoping to not be forced into doing so quite yet. If I do need a new AV processor, I'm questioning whether repair money would be better-spent on a new device.

-R

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post #44947 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
My understanding is that the correction parameters are in separate memory the firmware update doesn't touch. Even the Reset Factory Defaults you have to do before the firmware install doesn't erase them.

That said, it's always been my practice to re-Upload my existing ARC solution after a firmware update (or any other Reset) -- "just in case".
--Bob
Thanks for the info, I decided to reload it just in case.
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post #44948 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post
Over the past few weeks, I've started losing picture outright on all the sources connected to my d2v.

I haven't touched the physical system or connected anything differently, it just started happening at random. The only "new" thing in my system is a Harmony Elite remote, but I don't see how that could cause random video drop outs.

I can sometimes restore picture by rebooting the d2v, but lately that isn't even bringing the picture back. I can hear audio on the inputs, just no video. The only sure-fire way I've been able to bring the video back is to pull out my whole rack, unplug the HDMI cable from the Output port, and plug it back in.

I've double-checked that all cables are firmly seated in both the d2v and my source devices. It's also not the TV, because the TV's OSD menus still display if video is lost.

Since the device is well out of warranty at this point, I'm not sure how much something like this would cost to repair (I've just sent a message to Anthem Support), or if it would even be worth it. I've been happy with the AV performance of the unit, but have frankly been disappointed with its clunky menus and flaky HDMI support.

I need to upgrade all of my gear eventually for 4k, but was hoping to not be forced into doing so quite yet. If I do need a new AV processor, I'm questioning whether repair money would be better-spent on a new device.

-R
I can't answer all of your questions but I am in a similar boat. Purchased a used d2 to use in a secondary system and the video side appears to be not functioning 100%. Anthem can replace the video board on the d2 but its $1000 part, d2v might be slightly different. If its just the HDMI board it might be less. Have you tested the component side?

What do you see when the video drops? Blue screen?
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post #44949 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsinclair View Post
Over the past few weeks, I've started losing picture outright on all the sources connected to my d2v.

I haven't touched the physical system or connected anything differently, it just started happening at random. The only "new" thing in my system is a Harmony Elite remote, but I don't see how that could cause random video drop outs.

I can sometimes restore picture by rebooting the d2v, but lately that isn't even bringing the picture back. I can hear audio on the inputs, just no video. The only sure-fire way I've been able to bring the video back is to pull out my whole rack, unplug the HDMI cable from the Output port, and plug it back in.

I've double-checked that all cables are firmly seated in both the d2v and my source devices. It's also not the TV, because the TV's OSD menus still display if video is lost.

Since the device is well out of warranty at this point, I'm not sure how much something like this would cost to repair (I've just sent a message to Anthem Support), or if it would even be worth it. I've been happy with the AV performance of the unit, but have frankly been disappointed with its clunky menus and flaky HDMI support.

I need to upgrade all of my gear eventually for 4k, but was hoping to not be forced into doing so quite yet. If I do need a new AV processor, I'm questioning whether repair money would be better-spent on a new device.

-R
Try lowering the input and the output video resolutions. So for example 1080i in and out or 720p in and out. If the problem goes away, but returns when using 1080p, then it is likely your video cable has gone bad. It happens.

If the problem remains despite the lower resolution, try doing a reload of the firmware (which means doing a Reset beforehand, so copy down your settings first). After the firmware install, set up JUST the bare minimum input and output settings needed to test the video problem, and see it is gone. If so, enter the rest of your settings and see if it comes back. If the problem is NOT gone after the re-install, you've pretty much eliminated the things you can test, and the unit likely needs factory service.
--Bob
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post #44950 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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Audio Pops

I'd like to deal with an audio issue which will affect whether or when I replace my AVM-50. I watch a good amount of cable, and I recently picked up a used Oppo BDP-103D to see what the Darbee might do for both cable and BluRay. I will upgrade my Kuro later this year and probably upgrade the processor as well. At this point the AVM-60 is my preferred choice. However.....

With the Oppo in the chain (Arris Comcast box to Oppo HDMI In to the Anthem) nasty things can happen. The local cable company sometimes inserts their own commercials in stereo into a channel broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. When this happens, nasty audible pops occur as the three devices deal with the change in audio formats. Pops occur when changing channels as well. Changing the Oppo's output to LPCM does not help. I contacted Anthem and asked if this behavior will also occur with the AVM-60, as i would like to use the Oppo's video processing for cable sources. I got a qualified "maybe".

With Bob and others here well versed in all things Anthem and Oppo, I'd love to hear some opinions and suggestions.

Thanks
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post #44951 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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I'd like to deal with an audio issue which will affect whether or when I replace my AVM-50. I watch a good amount of cable, and I recently picked up a used Oppo BDP-103D to see what the Darbee might do for both cable and BluRay. I will upgrade my Kuro later this year and probably upgrade the processor as well. At this point the AVM-60 is my preferred choice. However.....

With the Oppo in the chain (Arris Comcast box to Oppo HDMI In to the Anthem) nasty things can happen. The local cable company sometimes inserts their own commercials in stereo into a channel broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. When this happens, nasty audible pops occur as the three devices deal with the change in audio formats. Pops occur when changing channels as well. Changing the Oppo's output to LPCM does not help. I contacted Anthem and asked if this behavior will also occur with the AVM-60, as i would like to use the Oppo's video processing for cable sources. I got a qualified "maybe".

With Bob and others here well versed in all things Anthem and Oppo, I'd love to hear some opinions and suggestions.

Thanks
You really should not be getting transients when the digital audio input format changes, but of course you can't really know what the Comcast box is receiving at those transitions, and what it is sending out.

That said, if what you are hearing is a single Pop, what may be happening is that you have a DC voltage bias in your setup -- a type of ground loop problem. With a DC voltage bias, volume "0" is not voltage 0, and when the signal returns you get a pop as the muting lifts (during the transition of digital formats) and the voltage on the outputs jumps back to that DV voltage bias level.

A DC voltage bias can exist because something in your video setup is putting voltage on the cable shields of the cables connecting your equipment. This type of garbage is more commonly heard as 60 cycle power line "hum", particularly in the subwoofer. The voltage travels between you equipment on the shields of the cables connecting them -- and can pass through devices even when they are "off".

Ground loop garbage current can happen if you are using multiple outlets to power your equipment and they don't happen to all be at the same ground level. It can also happen if the feed line for your Comcast box is not properly grounded where it enters your house -- garbage outside your house comes into your house that way on the cable shield of that feed line. It can also happen if you have a faulty device (power amps are the usual culprit) that is leaking voltage to its chassis shield.

Figuring out the source of the problem can be a neat trick. But here's a good place to start: f your cable box happens to be a DVR, try this: Disconnect the Comcast feed wire where it comes out of the wall, and play some recorded content on the DVR. Do the Pops go away?
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #44952 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
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You really should not be getting transients when the digital audio input format changes, but of course you can't really know what the Comcast box is receiving at those transitions, and what it is sending out.

That said, if what you are hearing is a single Pop, what may be happening is that you have a DC voltage bias in your setup -- a type of ground loop problem. With a DC voltage bias, volume "0" is not voltage 0, and when the signal returns you get a pop as the muting lifts (during the transition of digital formats) and the voltage on the outputs jumps back to that DV voltage bias level.

A DC voltage bias can exist because something in your video setup is putting voltage on the cable shields of the cables connecting your equipment. This type of garbage is more commonly heard as 60 cycle power line "hum", particularly in the subwoofer. The voltage travels between you equipment on the shields of the cables connecting them -- and can pass through devices even when they are "off".

Ground loop garbage current can happen if you are using multiple outlets to power your equipment and they don't happen to all be at the same ground level. It can also happen if the feed line for your Comcast box is not properly grounded where it enters your house -- garbage outside your house comes into your house that way on the cable shield of that feed line. It can also happen if you have a faulty device (power amps are the usual culprit) that is leaking voltage to its chassis shield.

Figuring out the source of the problem can be a neat trick. But here's a good place to start: f your cable box happens to be a DVR, try this: Disconnect the Comcast feed wire where it comes out of the wall, and play some recorded content on the DVR. Do the Pops go away?
--Bob
Hi Bob,

Before you replied, I disconnected the cable from the Oppo and am running the box into the Anthem. Of course, there have been no audio format changes since I did that although channel changes are silent now. Everything is plugged into an APC H-15 power conditioner. It's behaving a bit strangely and I'm going to call their support line. The voltage in to it indicates less than the voltage in to an identical unit upstairs. Details to follow...
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post #44953 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
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^ Also be aware that the 3-prong power cord on the OPPO may provide just the extra path to ground for garbage, ground loop current (coming from elsewhere) to flow. I.e., it can allow an existing, hidden problem to present itself.

You can test if this is the case by TEMPORARILY using a 3-prong to 2-prong cheater adapter. Please be aware that if the cheater adapter fixes the problem, you should NOT leave it that way. Such a result would be strong evidence that something, somewhere else in your system, (or on the content cabling coming into your house) is putting current on the chassis and shield grounds. This is not good. So you need to find the source of the garbage and fix it so that things work correctly even when using the 3-prong power plug normally.
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post #44954 of 44955 Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Also be aware that the 3-prong power cord on the OPPO may provide just the extra path to ground for garbage, ground loop current (coming from elsewhere) to flow. I.e., it can allow an existing, hidden problem to present itself.

You can test if this is the case by TEMPORARILY using a 3-prong to 2-prong cheater adapter. Please be aware that if the cheater adapter fixes the problem, you should NOT leave it that way. Such a result would be strong evidence that something, somewhere else in your system, (or on the content cabling coming into your house) is putting current on the chassis and shield grounds. This is not good. So you need to find the source of the garbage and fix it so that things work correctly even when using the 3-prong power plug normally.
--Bob
There appears to be no issue with the Oppo out of the chain. I will be replacing all HDMI cables with premium certified ones in the near future. I just switched from a HD channel with Dolby 5.1 to a SD one broadcasting in 2.0 stereo. No noise. It seemed with the Oppo in the chain, a extended handshake was taking place back and forth between devices. I don't quite know enough to be dangerous, but I've heard a 60 cycle hum before and this didn't resemble it. I've also had something similar happen switching between surround tracks and stereo, i.e. movie to menu with a totally different player.

Thanks,

Glenn
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post #44955 of 44955 Old Today, 08:19 AM
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There appears to be no issue with the Oppo out of the chain. I will be replacing all HDMI cables with premium certified ones in the near future. I just switched from a HD channel with Dolby 5.1 to a SD one broadcasting in 2.0 stereo. No noise. It seemed with the Oppo in the chain, a extended handshake was taking place back and forth between devices. I don't quite know enough to be dangerous, but I've heard a 60 cycle hum before and this didn't resemble it. I've also had something similar happen switching between surround tracks and stereo, i.e. movie to menu with a totally different player.

Thanks,

Glenn
P.S.

Next time that I open things back up, I will be switching out the cables, and will lift the ground on the Oppo temporarily when I connect the cable box to it if the issue still exists. In the meantime, the Oppo as a stand alone player has no issues. This will occur when the TV and/or processor is replaced.

"In Bob, We Trust"
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